Dear Bill; I have always enjoyed and keep enjoying all your postings regardless of being intelectual, agree or disagree. You are of great strenght to this group. You have lots of experience and I admire your communicative skills and your elocuence. Whatever you say, with you one always learns a lot.
If I pointed out intelectualization and mindfulness wasn't any personal to anyone. Sorry if that was interpretated in that way. I'm a person with very powerful and strong emotions, plus ego, arrogance and so on. And because of that I have no more choice that to practice mindfullness in order to have them under control. My say was a general observation about the mind in the mind. Nothing personal at all. Mayka --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Edgar, > > Mark thinks it's off-topic. Mike thinks it's off-topic. Mayka thinks it's > off-topic. I think it's off-topic, but I enjoyed it. I'd be happy to > continue the discussion offline via email. > > ...Bill! > > From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Edgar Owen > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 7:17 PM > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: TNH - Fifty Verses of the Nature of Consciousness. > Part 4, Sense Consciousness > > Bill, > > I don't think our causality discussion is OT at all. The true nature of > things is exactly what Zen is about. Until we understand that there is no > Zen. > > Zen is not about avoiding reality by sitting forever in zazen. Zen is about > living day to day in the real world of things seen in their true nature, of > illusion seen as illusion, which is reality. > > EDgar > > > On Oct 15, 2008, at 6:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Mark, Mike and Mayka, > > I'd like to acknowledge my agreement with you about the great chasm that > necessarily exists between zen and intellectualization. > > I'd also like to assure all of you that the current discussion thread on > Causality, with is mainly between Edgar and me, has nothing at all to do > with zen or Zen Buddhism as far as I'm concerned. It is exactly as you've > characterized it - head-candy. I call it verbal Sudoku. The Zen Forum is > not an appropriate place for us to have this discussion, and at least on my > part I'm willing to shut it down. > > The thread was a divergence from a legitimate discussion on a topic that is > appropriate to zen and Buddhism, the concept of karma. Causality is a kind > of value-free version of karma. > > Thanks for reminding me of the purpose of the forum and the boundaries that > should be respected. > > ...Bill! > > P.S. For some reason I'm not getting any of Mayka's or Mike's postings. I > get Zen Forum postings sent directly to me via email. I only see the > postings when someone, like Mark, responds and I see the original posting > embedded in his post. I've asked Al to look into this before, but there has > been no explanation. Has anyone else noticed this? Or can anyone else > offer any possible explanations or suggestions? > > From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Mark Perew > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 3:52 PM > To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: TNH - Fifty Verses of the Nature of Consciousness. > Part 4, Sense Consciousness > > Mike - > > A toast to the things I cannot change! > > > > On 10/15/08, mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Mayka, > > >My knowledge and insight about > >consciousness is rather limited. And therefore open to > >intelectualization and what is the worst speculation. Being aware of > >the harm that intelectualization and speculation can cause I'd rather > >keep quiet till real insight cames out. > > Well said. I really do enjoy reading the intellectual and metaphysical > postings here, but at the end of the day, that is all they really are - > headcandy for the intellect. That's why I guess I would call myself a Zen > Buddhist. The danger of trying to extract zen from Zen Buddhism can lead to > the charge that zen is nothing more than an "intellectual exercise" ala > JMJM. IMHO an understanding of 'emptiness' without following the Eight > Precepts won't lead to a self-transformation as deep as following them. I > don't remember who said it, but zen without Zen Buddhism is like an > alcoholic going to an AA meeting in the morning and a cocktail lounge in the > evening. > > Mike. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Mayka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 14:47:58 > Subject: [Zen] Re: TNH - Fifty Verses of the Nature of Consciousness. Part > 4, Sense Consciousness > Hi Mike; > > Which of the verses would like a comment?. These last three or > previous ones?. If you're refering to these last three verses then > in order to understand them one needs first to understand all > previous ones. Verses are all linked like an unbreakable chain and at > the same time each verse contains also all the rest. Amazing art of > writing, isn't it?. > > However, I'm not making comments at the moment for several reasons; > First; it would create intelectual distraction over the readers. > Second; Although I had this dharma directly transmitted during a long > retreat by Venerable Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh. I feel no much > confidence yet on the subject. > > The Nature of Consciousness is a most fascinating subject to discuss > about in a dharma group. Of course providing that the ones who take > part in such a complex discussion are people with a real realizacion > within themselves of the subject discussed and not just vanity and > ego. > > Thanks anyway for your interest. > Mayka > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, mike brown <uerusuboyo@ ...> wrote: > > > > Hi Mayka, > > > > Could you give us a commentary on what those verses mean to you? > Thanks. > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Mayka <flordeloto@ ...> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com > > Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 13:02:22 > > Subject: [Zen] TNH - Fifty Verses of the Nature of Consciousness. > Part 4, Sense Consciousness > > > > > > Part 4, Sense Consciousness > > > > Twenty-Eight > > > > Based on mind consciousness. > > The five sense consciousness > > separately or together with mind consciousness, > > manifest like waves on water. > > > > Twenty-Nine > > > > The field of perception is things in themselves. > > Their mode of perception is direct. > > Their nature can be wholesome, unwholesome or neutral. > > They operate on the sense organs and the sensation center of the > > brain. > > > > Thirty > > > > They arise with the > > universal, particular and wholesome, > > the basic and secondary unwholesome, > > and the indeterminate mental formations. > > > > __________ NOD32 3522 (20081014) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ NOD32 3523 (20081015) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! 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