Bill;

I was very moved by the kindnest of this post of yours towards my 
person.  I'm not very used to this kind of treatment from practioners 
in the net.  I was taken aback and blushed in shyness and 
embarresment while I was reading it. However, I feel my 
responsability to tell you that I'm just amongst the thousands of 
anonymous officially direct disciples from Thich Nhat Hanh. It 
wouldn't be fair on Thich Nhat Hanh saying that I'm representing him 
since my meetings with his monastic sangha have been just very few 
alone the years. Though it's true that I'm very receptive to his 
teaching.  When I first met him I told my sangha "That man is like me 
but in enlightened version.  The day my mind will be pure I'll be 
like him but in a woman version. I must know how he has done to 
become like this." And they all laugh because of my temper and strong 
emotions....

 Sadly, but enviromental conditiones were not right for me to join 
the monastic sangha and spend enough time amongst them so that I 
could  be be trained appropiately. And because of that I can not let 
you or anyone here see me as Thich Nhat Hanh representant.  My 
training has been most of it by myself alone and just very 
occassional retreats with them. I love and respect them too much to 
pretend something I am not. 

"Just This" and "Just That" didn't intend to give a sense of duality 
but to lead you to the understanding in connection with karma, form 
and not form that everything interbeing with each other.  The form 
contains the non form and viceverse.  

I understand karma as the action and the reaction of that action. 
Even if you would be very mindful and deeply concentrated in 
continuos alerteness to everything that is going on in the present 
moment, still you create karma. Your karma here will be the energy 
produced by your awareness.  Whatever we do is going to have a 
reaction.  

Thanks for being just as you are.  knowing that you are there 
practicing I feel a little less lonely in the practice.

Mayka

  



 
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Smart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mayka,
> 
> Thank you for your very candid and profound post.  I appreciate 
your 
> sharing with the forum your admiration for Thich Nhat Hanh.  You 
are 
> representing him and his teachings very, very well.
> 
> Please remember that I don't get your posts in my email, and I 
don't 
> always check the website.  So, if you have a post you want to 
direct 
> specifically to me or to assure my awareness of the post, please 
> email it to me directly as you have in the past.
> 
> My comments are embedded in your post below:
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Mayka" <flordeloto@> wrote:
> >
> > Bill;
> > 
> > I have no idea if Thich Nhat Hanh is a self proclaimed Buddhist 
or 
> > not.  Knowing him a little bit I can not see him doing any 
> > proclamation about anything for he's a very wise, sweet, humble 
> > profoundly peaceful man.  I know about him that he has turn round 
> the 
> > dharma wheel and created a new way slightly different way 
tradition 
> > from the tradition he comes from.  This is natural, the dharma is 
> > something alive which comes first from guiding books and 
education 
> > and becames through daily direct experience practice a living 
> dharma. 
> > I can say for sure about him that whatever he teaches is 
something 
> > that he has experienced first by himself. He won't ever talk 
about 
> > something that he has not experienced first.  In fact one amongst 
> his 
> > multi remarkable skills is to reduce to the minimum the use of 
> words 
> > that can create distraction in the mind and using words that are 
> very 
> > simple but a smack to the intelectual mind, individualism and 
ego. 
> A 
> > person who is looking for sophisticated discourses and candy 
words 
> > would find Thic Nhat Hanh tedious and boring.   Or on the other 
> hand, 
> > a perosn who can also be intelectual but has reached to 
conclusion 
> > that intelectuality can be a boundary when this is not used in 
the 
> > appropiate way, then that person, if receptive enough, would find 
> > Thich Nhat Hanh a very enlightened person. 
> >
> > My direct experience about him is that he is a living Buddha.  I 
> can 
> > sense, touch and see that in all his body language, his living 
> > dharma, his energy, in each action he does.... When he pass on 
his 
> > dharma he doesn't pass on just words but also pass on his direct 
> > experience about it!.  So the words become like something very 
> lively 
> > and real in him.  He never talks about something that he has not 
> > experiencing first by himself.
> >
>  
> Thank you again for your vivid description of Thich Nhat Hanh and 
> your impression of him.  He is honored to have you as a student.
> 
> One of the things you've said above rings especially true for this 
> forum: living dharma cannot be expressed by words alone - 
especially 
> in only written text.  It's only from face-to-face contact with 
some  
> as you describe that you can fully appreciate their total 
absorption 
> in the dharma.
> 
> > The tradition he teaches I'm not sure but I'm under the impresion 
> > that has its roots in Mahayana Buddhism.  
> >
> 
> Zen Buddhism does have it's roots in Mahayana Buddhism.  Some 
beleive 
> Zen is a type of Mahayana Buddhism, and some beleive Zen is the 
> evolution (culmination) of Mahayana Buddhim and is a branch of its 
> own.  I assum Thich Nhat Hanh being Vietnamese would have grown up 
> under the influence of Theravada Buddhism, but anyway Theravada is 
> not mutually exclusive from Mahayana Buddhsim.
> 
> As you and I both know and have said repeatedly, none of these 
names 
> or terms are really important.  I usually only bring these up in 
> response to someone else's post referring to some specific type of 
> Buddhism.  I'm not really overly concerned with Buddhism.  All you 
> Buddhists can give it what ever names, and divide it up into 
whatever 
> categories you want.
> 
> > I have never hear before zen without the influence of buddhism or 
> > having as buddhism in its root. Interesting also the simplicity 
you 
> > seem to follow your own practice.
> >
> 
> I know what you say is true.  Most people (99.9%?) inextricably 
> assocaiate zen and Buddhism.  Some think it is just one of the many 
> branches of Buddhism.  Some, like the Vispassana Buddhists here in 
> Thailand, think Zen is not a part of Buddhism at all - more like a 
> cult, a derranged and impure psuedo-Buddhism.  Some think of Zen as 
> the culmination of all Buddhism - the most pure form.
> 
> I think of zen as pre-dating Buddhism, Hinduism, Judiasm, 
> Christianity and all other religions.  I think of zen as the core 
of 
> most other religions, and these other religions, including 
Buddhism, 
> are zen with a lot of extra crap stuck all over it.  In a lot of 
the 
> religions the extra crap is so thick that the zen core is totally 
> obsucured.  I do think that in Zen Buddhism, even with all the crap 
> attached, at least the zen core is recognizable and accessible. 
> 
> >I like from it [Bill's zen practice] how direct is and 
> > its simplicity.  I also like from it how open is to criticism, 
and 
> > the fact that one can talk  about positve things and negative 
> things 
> > happening to one in a very open way. In constrast to the profound 
> > wisdom from Thich Nhat Hanh I have always found difficult to 
relate 
> > myself in the non monastic sanghas due to its kind of Disneyland 
> way 
> > of doing. I certainly share with you that as a practicioner I 
don't 
> > like to wave but to deal with what it comes as it comes alone. 
> > Though, I do lack of the mental stability over my emotions and 
> > solidity you seem to have.  
> >
>  
> I also feel a close connection with you, even though we often 
> disagree, or at least seem to disagree.  I respect your perspective 
> and enjoy your posts.
> 
> > You say that you practice from the perspective "Just This".  
> But "Just
> > This" can not exist without "Just That".
> >
> 
> Your statement above is actually true.  As soon as you say 'this', 
> you imply there is a 'that'.  This is a good example of dualistic 
> thinking, but something that is all but impossible to extract from 
> our language. Language ASSUMES and is based on dualism.  This is 
why 
> zen masters often refrain from giving language-based answers to 
> questions like 'What is Buddha Nature?'.  As soon as you open your 
> mouth to speak, you're lost.  So what do they do?
> 
> Sometimes they do use language, but in such a non-ordinary way that 
> the listener cannot take their reponose literaly.  Examples of 
these 
> are 'mu', or 'the cypress tree in the garden', or 'dried shit on a 
> stick'.  Sometimes they just yell something that is not a word at 
> all, like 'Katz!' or 'Wah!'.  Since these are not words they cannot 
> be misunderstood.  Sometimes they don't speak but just slap the 
> floor, or turn around and walk away.  They do avoid using ordinary 
> langauage if at all possible.
> 
> If you and I were face-to-face and your were to ask me about Buddha 
> Nature I would not say 'Just THIS!'.  I would demostrate Buddha 
> Nature.  The best way I figured out how to do this in writing like 
on 
> this forum is to type Just THIS!
>  
> > zen or buddhism are not bigger or smaller.  They may be different 
> > ways in which the dharma is transmitted and nothing else.
> >
> 
> When I say zen is smaller than Buddhism, I mean zen is the core and 
> Buddhism (or Hinduism or Christianity) is the packaging.  Like zen 
is 
> the marrow and Buddhsim is the bone which contains but hides the 
> marrow, or maybe even Buddhism is the entire body.  It's hard to 
get 
> to the marrow if you have to hack through the body and the bone.
>  
> > I'm truly happy to see you active in the list.  Sorry if we can't 
> > help oneselves by letting you lurking.  I suppose we all miss you 
> > very much.  The zen forum is not the same without you, JM, Mike, 
> > Edgar....
> > 
> > A respectuos bow to you
> > Mayka
> >
>  
> El gusto es mio...
> 
> ...Bill!
>



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