Bill,
All your one liners on this post to Anthony have a common theme which is 
offering help.  When an addict becomes free and helps others overcome addiction 
they are not flawed, but when a person experiences freedom from suffering do to 
the transformation of negative actions to virtuous ones they are flawed.  Would 
you tell a recovered addict that there is no need to help other addicts because 
there are no destructive behaviours, even when from the recovered persons 
experience that is not so.  You keep projecting the ultimate on the illusion 
and that is not so. Either the illusion is the same nature as your experience 
or it is not. Things function in the illusion, there are actions that cause 
happiness and those that cause suffering, actions that cause personal freedom 
and those that maintain bondage.  It is not a delusion for someone who has 
freed their self from an attachment to help others do the same. 

joe

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote:
>
> Anthony,
> 
>  
> 
> As I’ve said before, the kindly uniformed Bodhisattvas who tend to our 
> every need during our air travel remind us of this just before we take off:
> 
>  
> 
> ‘Please remember to put on your own oxygen mask first before attempting to 
> help others’.
> 
>  
> 
> Also Jesus, who was not an official flight attendant but did attempt to guide 
> his flock so they could ascend to Heaven, is quoted as saying: 
> 
>                 “5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, 
> and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.” 
> The Holy Bible, Matthew 7:5
> 
> …Bill!
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
> Of Anthony Wu
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 4:57 AM
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> 
> ED,
> 
>  
> 
> I am asking and also telling everybody what I read about the confusing 
> Mahayanist literature.
> 
>  
> 
> Anthony
> 
> --- On Sat, 31/7/10, ED <seacrofter...@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: ED <seacrofter...@...>
> Subject: [Zen] Re: Compassion
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, 31 July, 2010, 8:58 PM
> 
>   
> 
> 
> Anthony,
> 
> Are you asking us or are you telling us?
> 
> --ED
> 
>  
> 
> --- In zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> >
> > ED,
> >  
> > In my understanding (if found incorrect, please point out), Buddha says you 
> > must first work out your own salvation, then you save others. But the later 
> > Mahayanist says that the ideal bodhisatva helps others first, before saving 
> > themselves. Can you really help others when facing many problems of your 
> > own?
> >
> > Anthony
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature 
> database 5331 (20100801) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.eset.com
>




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