Anthony,

But the later Mahayanist says that the ideal bodhisattva helps others first, 
before saving themselves. 
>From what I learned is there are three types of minds of bodhichitta, one that 
>seeks to bring others along with them, one that wishes to lead all others 
>first and then go, and one that becomes a Buddha first then leads all living 
>beings.  He says that though the other two are noble minds, they are ignorant 
>wishes.  When you said "Can you really help others when facing many problems 
>of your own?" Buddha said you can't, which is why becoming Buddha first is 
>true bodhichitta.  However, to deny compassionate help to the world while 
>transforming into Buddha would be to deny the compassionate being of the now, 
>who interacts with the world and affects it.  The vow of becoming a Buddha 
>should not contradict the vow of helping others but support it, to the point 
>that each helps increase the other. So a balanced view again arises, you are 
>not Buddha yet, just as the car on the assembly line is not built yet, so you 
>be the being you are, compassion, until then.  

joe


--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wu...@...> wrote:
>
> ED,
>  
> In my understanding (if found incorrect, please point out), Buddha says you 
> must first work out your own salvation, then you save others. But the later 
> Mahayanist says that the ideal bodhisatva helps others first, before saving 
> themselves. Can you really help others when facing many problems of your own?
>  
> Anthony
> 
> --- On Tue, 27/7/10, ED <seacrofter...@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: ED <seacrofter...@...>
> Subject: [Zen] Re: Compassion
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, 27 July, 2010, 8:48 PM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> "Work out your *own* salvation with diligence.", said the Buddha. 
> --ED
> 
> --- In zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com, "maitreya003" <joultimo@> wrote:
> >
> > or build a boat when one is spontaneously needed. or feed others when they 
> > hunger, help find shelter for those who need rest. When self is individual 
> > then it's all about individual needs. Thinking of your self is ok but not 
> > other selves.
> 
>  
> > --- In zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com, "Bill!" BillSmart@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Okay, how about '...eat when you're hungry, sleep when you're tired, wake 
> > > when you're rested and build a boat when you're asked.'?
> > > 
> > > ...Bill!
> 
> > > --- In zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com, "maitreya003" <joultimo@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > > 
> > > > Just keep sitting, and eat when you're hungry, sleep when you're tired, 
> > > > wake when you're rested and deal with whatever comes up in a 
> > > > spontaneous manner without any goals or valutions in mind."
> > > > 
> > > > And if someone asks you to design and build a boat, can you just sit 
> > > > and not set any goals and valuations, or must you put thought into the 
> > > > design and effort into the build, even though it's an illusion? 
> > > > 
> > > > Apparently you place valuation on sitting, eating when hungry and 
> > > > sleeping when tired, etc, Because that is the way, the only way to you. 
> > > > A set of illusory standards within the illusion.
> 
>  
>




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