Wow, this is throwing the baby out with the bath water! What a stereotypical summary of western zen practice. So what are we westerners to do? I guess we should just give up.........
I don't practice zen this way and I live in America. I don't spend any money and I don't believe every 'instant enlightenment' fad I hear either. Gees, JODY -----Original Message----- From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kristy McClain Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:06 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Practical Mysticism - Evelyn Underhill *chuckles* I'm glad we both got our rants out for all to witness;) I guess I was just truly disgruntled by this trend to somehow make the dharma palatable to the westerner. Either the teaching has value and wisdom--or it doesn't. I don't think one changes the teaching to suit the student. The teaching exists so the student can change within. Its the square peg ~ round hole issue. If a westerner mindset is stuck in ignorance and ego-drive, contorting the teachings does not seem like a reasoned response. Kristy --- On Tue, 9/14/10, roloro1557 <roloro1...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: roloro1557 <roloro1...@yahoo.com> Subject: [Zen] Re: Practical Mysticism - Evelyn Underhill To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:50 PM Oh Kristy, what an excellent post :-) My comments are below. . . --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <http://us.mc552.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> , Kristy McClain <healthypl...@...> wrote: > > *bows* to Kirk et al;) > > I address my comments to your last paragraph on what indeed is happening to zen in the west. I am by no means a scholar on the topic. I offer my observations as I see a troublesome trend. I have been concerned in recent years about the commercialization of spiritual practices, like zen. Retreats, books, CD's, other media and the internet have made spirituality a lucative venture. The first question asked isn't "How many people could benefit from this?" The first question asked is ALWAYS "How can we make money from this?" And people rush forward, happy to pay exhorbitant prices for nothing but empty words and concepts. > Radio programs like Hayhouseradio.com, among many others, suggest they exist as a means to "spread the message". Ok, I don't have a problem if people have money or not. But I am tired of attraction laws, and affirmations and chants and meditations, that propose this is a process of coercing some karmic force that can lead you to enlightenment while sitting in a Rolls Royce, ( a-la- Louise Hays of Hayhouse). Maybe I'm naively purist, but something seems fundamentally wrong to me. I completely agree. And this has always been true. If you want to look at it from a christian (western) perspective Jesus said very similar things about the pharasees and others. Sad but not surprising that nothing has changed in 2000+ years. . . . > > I am puzzled by the statement in all these books that the "answer" is not in a book, but it still costs $24.95 to gleen this "truth". Retreat fees are outrageous. Omega, Spirit Rock, and the like-- all are reaping big rewards, and I do indeed think it has corrupted the translation and transmission of the teachings and its history. > I have not attended a retreat in years for this very reason. . . > One other thought.. > > In the west, there has been this effort to manipulate the dharma so as to be acceptable to the westernized student mind-set and culture. Hence, the "Big Mind" process. While many rave over this technique, it has never worked for me. It simply feels like Jungian group therapy. I see value in the process for many seeking better self-awareness and coping skills in life. > I think this is exactly correct. And speaking of Jung, I agree with his assertion that whole cultures can be introverted or extraverted and that America is extraverted in the extreme - I think this is why most Americans have so much trouble with zen and other eastern teachings. > But I don't see how it relates to Soto, Rinzai or any other traditional teaching. > > Moreover, though American myself, I am sick and tired of the needyiness for self-gratification many Westerners feel they are entitled to. A sense of entitlement could perhaps sum up a western mind-set. I agree most whole-heartedly!!! Artie ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
