Kristy,

I think I'm much more like your dad - I like the description 'gender-blind' : 
)     I also have a daughter (and 2 sons) and have always encouraged her in any 
endeavour she wishes to undertake. Gender is not a consideration. I also agree 
regarding the differences between the sexes and liking it. I think that's a 
large part of my liking life here in Japan. The women here are so relaxed about 
he different roles the genders take compared to the uptightness in the west. 
Vive la difference! 

Mike



________________________________
From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com>
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 0:17:59
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

  
Hi Mike,
 
in all honesty, I was going to be supportive of feminism, but you caught me off 
guard with this.  I suspect you  have a good point, though I have always 
thought 
of myself as supporting women's choices and opportunities.  I actually have a 
great sense of  humor known by all who know me, beit colleage, friend  or 
family.   But I am not active in the feminist  issues, per se.  

 
On a broader level (;).. perhaps many who are active border on militant.  Its 
been years since I took a class or seminar in women's studies, but even then, i 
questioned the all-or-nothing attitudes.  Our society has evolved in a 
patriarchial way, but in my view, every woe or set-back women face , is not by 
definition the fault of men.  There is an element of men-haters there as a 
result.

I have a different perspective.  My dad is gender-blind.  He could not conceive 
that a daughter of his could not do anything she  decided to do.  The idea of a 
glass ceiling is  foreign to him. So, I never grew up feeling lesser in   that 
sense.  I didn't feel I needed to "prove' something.  When I  started working, 
I 
never sensed any feeling of discrimination or judgement. Thus, it was easy for 
me to keep my sense of humor, "blonde" jokes, and my salary.

One sociological effect of the feminist campaign has, in my view, had a  
negative influence on men.  Since the 80's, the growth of self-help empowerment 
groups and  thought, has led to a plethora of books  and media  that called for 
men to discover their 'feminine' side.  It became  politically incorrect to 
follow any of  the tradional norms.  Men  became femininized.  At least on the 
surface and in behavior.  Laws were passed to insure this.  

I personally like having two genders.  I don't understand the drive 
to homogenize us so  that we are all equal and neutral.  We aren't We're simply 
different.  That doesn't mean that one is more or less. Smarter or dumber. 
Better or worse.  We're simply different.  We should celebrate that.  Each 
offering  what is innately their special talent and perspective. Share with 
each 
other  what we each bring to the table.  Men as men.  Women as women.  Not 
stereptyped-- men can be care-givers; women  can be astro-physcisits, or any 
combination in between.  


I wonder if you are correct that many feminists indeed have no sense of humor.  
If so, thats sad.  Life without laughter is an unlived life, in my view. 

But according to Bill, (and perhaps he's correct), its all an illusion anyway;)

Kristy


--- On Tue, 10/5/10, mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


>From: mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
church.
>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 8:34 AM
>
>
>  
>Kristy,
>
>Hmm, kinda. Most women I've met who claim to be 'feminists' seem to have a 
>severe lack of humour. I can appreciate that that is only anecdotal evidence 
>but 
>it seems to be a consistent theme. 
>
>
>Mike
>
> 
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com>
>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 12:26:09
>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
church.
>
>  
>Mike,
> 
>Do you mean feminists here?  If so-- why?  Do you honestly believe  you can 
>generalize with such broad strokes ? (pun intended);) k
>
>
>--- On Mon, 10/4/10, mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>From: mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
>church.
>>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>>Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 10:36 AM
>>
>>
>>  
>>ED,
>>
>>... and you can also throw the feminazis in with them, too.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com>
>>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>>Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 1:25:12
>>Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
>>
>>  
>>
>> 
>>Mike, shouldn't you be granting equal time to neo-zionazis?  ;-)
>> 
>>--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <uerusub...@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> DP,
>> 
>>> Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you, 
>>> huh. 
>>>Let me spell it out for you one more time. To paraphrase Kristy -  she said 
>>>that 
>>>atheists are ignorant of faith and so don't understand the religious 
>>>perspective. I pointed out that 1) lots of atheists were once upon a time 
>>>believers who have now 'seen the light' and so do have such experience but 
>>>rejected it.2) I may be ignorant of the beliefs of other groups but still 
>>>can 
>>>deduce that they are harmful. NOT that religious folks are the same as 
>>>neo-nazis 
>>>but the harm that can be DONE is the same. Clear?
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>
> 




      

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