Ed, There are probably physiological differences between the knee joints and tendons of a long-term meditator and a non-meditator, especially if the meditator is sitting in a full- or half-lotus position. That doesnt mean the alteration of the physiology of the knee results in enlightenment.
Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 9:21 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question > > "Is it the case that zazen and other zen practices, over a long period of time, under the guidance of an accredited Zen master, can alter the neurophysiology of the brain, resulting in the experience of 'enlightenment' or equivalently, the realization of one's 'Buddha nature'?" --ED > Hi ED: > Thank you for the trust you have put on me by asking me the below main question posted yourself. That sounds a very American question. Here in Europe we never heard of these kind of questions about zen. It sounds a question to make more appealing the practice of zen to people. Hi Mayka, Do you feel that it is disrespectful and discounting of zen to have asked such a question? > I don't don't know whether the practice of zen alters the neurophysiology of the brain resulting in an enlightened experience or not. I can certainly tell you out of myself direct experience that there is a gradual transformation within oneself. Yes, and that is why the statement says "... over a long period of time ..." > This transformation has nothing to do with any kind of magic ... Both Bill and I agree that zen is a natural process. > ... or alteration of any kind. Several studies of the brains of deep and experienced meditators show anatomical and physiological differences from the brains of non-meditators. > According to my personal experience zen is very far of being an alteration of any kind, ... The changes have to be detected by CAT scans, fMRIs, and so on. > ... well on the contrary. There is no excitment, no dualism and therefore no attachments while experiencing buddha nature. It takes phenomenal changes to transform the perpetually excited, continually thinking, dualistic modern man into one who experiences 'just THIS' in every moment. > Buddha nature is not an static state either. It's something that comes and goes as everything else. With the difference that there is the key to get one into that state at any time one wants to be there. And the key is practice, practice, practice....Easy to say and not as easy to be put into action. This is true and is compatible with a neurological model. > It seems that in your question there is also a condition for that alteration in the brain to happen; and that is that in order to that experience to take place one should be guided and trained by an acredited Zen Master. > Let me tell you with all due respect that a real zen master won't ever guide to an student to any altered state. I believe you. And if you hear a Master of his/her students to say that then walk away because you'll be finding yourself with a fake. Be very cautious with this because your way of approaching is asking to be manipulated by non real zen. Do not ever trust the "magic". Zen is not magic but tedious and boring to the intelectual mind. Mayka Mayka, your advice makes good sense, and I promise to be ever-vigilant. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez <flordel...@...> wrote: > Hi ED: Thank you for the trust you have put on me by asking me the below main question posted yourself. That sounds a very American question. Here in Europe we never heard of these kind of questions about zen. It sounds a question to make more appealing the practice of zen to people. I don't don't know whether the practice of zen alters the neurophysiology of the brain resulting in an enlightened experience or not. I can certainly tell you out of myself direct experience that there is a gradual transformation within oneself. This transformation has nothing to do with any kind of magic or alteration of any kind. According to my personal experience zen is very far of being an alteration of any kind, well on the contrary. There is no excitment, no dualism and therefore no attachments while experiencing buddha nature. Buddha nature is not an static state either. It's something that comes and goes as everything else. With the difference that there is the key to get one into that state at any time one wants to be there. And the key is practice, practice, practice....Easy to say and not as easy to be put into action. It seems that in your question there is also a condition for that alteration in the brain to happen; and that is that in order to that experience to take place one should be guided and trained by an acredited Zen Master. Let me tell you with all due respect that a real zen master won't ever guide to an student to any altered state. And if you hear a Master of his/her students to say that then walk away because you'll be finding yourself with a fake. Be very cautious with this because your way of approaching is asking to be manipulated by non real zen. Do not ever trust the "magic". Zen is not magic but tedious and boring to the intelectual mind. Mayka --- On Tue, 19/10/10, ED <seacrofter...@...> wrote: Mayka, Leaving aside any differences we might have in the method for realizing of Buddha Mind - and I doubt we do - what is your position with respect to the following statement: o Is it the case that zazen and other zen practices, over a long period of time, under the guidance of an accredited Zen master, can alter the neurophysiology of the brain, resulting in the experience of 'enlightenment' or equivalently, the realization of one's 'Buddha nature'? Kind regards, --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez <flordel...@...> wrote: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/message/20438 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/message/20439 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5546 (20101019) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5546 (20101019) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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