Mayka, I really like that point you make about really nothing new being learned because of having an open mind to things. That's given my brain something to ponder on for the day :) And I do see where you're coming from with regards to science taking mindfulness and meditation, stripping them right back, and taking them away from their context (sort of thing). Rose
--- On Wed, 10/20/10, Maria Lopez <[email protected]> wrote: From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation? To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 4:36 PM Rose: Non being reactive in the TNH tradition means that you are opened to the experience that is in front of you. Means to have an open mind. Means that one is not a narrow mind. It means that one is not limited by pre-concepts and ideas in a way that nothing new can get into one. Nothing new can be learnt. New experiences in that way are not welcome. It doesn't seem to me that that is your case. You actually seem to be quite an open mind person. If one reacts and one knows that one is reacting . One could also do an step forward and finding out why one is reacting. But it will be one and no one else who has to see into that. Having a reaction with the unknown is a normal reaction we all have. The difference with a non practicioner is that the non practicioner reacts and doesn't know of reacting. To me this article has not a particular value in the theme is talking about because is written from an outsider and not from within the direct experience of the practice. I wonder if this may be the reason the writer of the article backs up continusly himself/herself with the use of science, pompous names, professions, schools to persuade better his/her readers to convert better his readers to whatever he wants to convert them. This is called religious manipulation. Have I answer what you were asking?. Mayka --- On Wed, 20/10/10, Rose P <[email protected]> wrote: From: Rose P <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation? To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, 20 October, 2010, 13:51 Yes, indeed Mayka. This question of 'non-reactivity to experience' though, I'm a little confused as to whether that's part of the aim of meditation (this is not really the word I'm looking for at all......but I don't have a better one...). Non-reactivity to experience could be helpful in certain situations, but not in others? Or always helpful.....? For a beginner like myself there's something appealing about non-reactivity as a 'goal', albeit probably an unattainable one. Rose --- On Wed, 10/20/10, Maria Lopez <[email protected]> wrote: From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation? To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 12:16 PM Empathy, care for a patient, altruism, love, compassion has always been in very good reputable all Hospitals from Pamplona, Spain which are well know to all high standard up Professional in the medical field in Europe . strangely enough those hospitals happen to be in its majority in the hands of OPUS Dei and catholic church (or at least they were) . The real mystery here is once again in the heart. And no matter who embodies that heart. Nothing at all is possible without the heart. If mindfulness is show in a scientific way the outcome will be a disaster --- On Wed, 20/10/10, Rose P <[email protected]> wrote: From: Rose P <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation? To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, 20 October, 2010, 12:21 This was a really interesting article Ed. The bit that really stood out for me was 'Years of meditation cultivates a natural non-reactivity to experience.' It made me wonder whether, once everything else is stripped away (the words, the concepts, the debates, and indeed the 'wondering'...), is non-reactivity to experience the essence, the key, the aim of the practise.... Rose --- On Wed, 10/20/10, ED <[email protected]> wrote: From: ED <[email protected]> Subject: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation? To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 6:48 AM Mindfulness: Meditation Vs. Skill Set October 7, 2010By 4u Articles As a long term yogic and vipassana meditator, and a mindfulness-based psychotherapist who regularly teaches meditation practices to my patients, I find the growth of mindfulness as a clinical intervention very timely. Last year, I attended two conferences focused on the use of mindfulness as a clinical intervention: Meditation and Psychotherapy at Harvard Medical School and Mindfulness and Psychotherapy at UCLA. Interestingly, the conference at Harvard featured a greater percentage of presenters who do not use meditation as an intervention in their clinical work. For them, mindfulness is a teachable skill set, extrapolated from a way of viewing life gained from sustained Buddhist meditation practices. These presenters included: Steven Hayes, founder of ACT, Lizbeth Roemer, U Mass GAD researcher and clinician, Tal Ben-Shahar, Harvard Lecturer on Positive Psychology, and Jayme Shorin, LICSW, sensorimotor trainer. The fact that the organizers of the Harvard conference felt it necessary to devote over half of the presentation time to methodologies that do not include meditation was, for me, significant. Though this might be expected at a Mindfulness and Psychotherapy conference, in fact the UCLA conference featured more presenters discussing the use of meditation and compassion practices as a clinical intervention. These presenters included: Thich Nhat Hahn, Vietnamese Buddhist monk and meditation teacher, Jack Kornfield, Tara Brach, Harriett Kimble Wrye, and Trudy Goodman, all psychologists and meditation teachers, and Dr. Daniel Siegel & Harvard neuroscientist Sara Lazar presenting the neurobiology of meditation. Due to the continuing trend in mental health toward brief, CBT [Cognitive Behavior Therapy] methods and away from depth-oriented, psychodynamic therapies, one can easily see how a reduction of mindfulness to an easily deliverable skill set would be a natural outcome of the environment in which it is delivered. But is the doing away with meditation practice psychotherapeutically wrong or ineffective? Not necessarily. Even in the East, Karma Yoga is an example of a path to liberation which eschews formal meditation practice in favor of a commitment to the work one does in the world as spiritual practice. Also, with neuroscience showing significant brain changes from long-term mindfulness meditation, one can easily see how a researcher like Steven Hayes could create mental exercises that simulate, through active questioning of the validity of language, the realization of the contextual nature of the self., i.e., Am I really these thoughts and beliefs that my mind continually comes up with? Years of meditation cultivates a natural non-reactivity to experience. But why wait years, when simple instructions for distress tolerance, like those featured in DBT can be dispensed to patients suffering from emotion dysregulation? Following in the footsteps of ACT is Acceptance-based psychotherapy which focuses on delivering skills for realizing and accepting here and now experience with compassion; something vipassana meditation and metta practices are well documented at cultivating in long-term practitioners. Yet again, why practice meditation at all when mindfulness skills can be learned and behaviors changed? Additionally, it must be acknowledged that most psychotherapists will not want to learn and commit to a daily mindfulness meditation practice, or be trained to teach mindfulness meditation. Therefore, it may be more desirable and practical in clinical settings to deliver a CBT-like mindfulness skill set rather than teach meditation In light of all these benefits, what do we lose in clinical practice when we allow instruction of vipassana/mindfulness meditation to fall into disfavor or become outmoded? The following list is my best guess at an answer to this question: 1.The long and short term stress-reducing physical effects of meditation 2.The plethora of profoundly, positive neural changes evidenced in the brains of long term vipassana/Tibetan Buddhist meditators 3.The deep emotional healing that comes from metta/forgiveness/compassion meditation practices 4.The benefits of setting aside time in our busy lives for silence, meditation and contemplation 5.The cultivation of peacefulness 6.The deepening of connection with and respect for our planet and all living things upon it, which naturally arise from sustained meditation practice 7.The shared joy of a community of meditators; whether traditional sanghas or 8-week mindfulness-based groups like Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy for Depression Relapse Prevention (MBCT), or Mindfulness-Based Relapse Prevention for addiction recovery (MBRP). I have seen patients experience radical change from incorporating mindfulness meditation and mindfulness skills into their daily lives and I am excited to offer MBRP, a mindfulness-based intervention for addiction relapse prevention in San Jose, CA in March 2008. Please contact me for more information. http://www.4u-2.com/health/health-meditation/mindfulness-meditation-vs-skill-set/
