Mark, Chris and Bill,

I fail to understand what the issue really is.  To me, reality is
reality, nature is nature, and people are people.

--ED



Definitions of reality:
    * world: all of your experiences that determine how things appear to
you; "his world was shattered"; "we live in different worlds"; "for them
demons were as much a part of reality as trees were"     * the state of
being actual or real; "the reality of his situation slowly dawned on
him"     * the state of the world as it really is rather than as you
might want it to be; "businessmen have to face harsh realities"     *
the quality possessed by something that is real


Definitions of nature:
    * the essential qualities or characteristics by which something is
recognized; "it is the nature of fire to burn"; "the true nature of
jealousy"     * a causal agent creating and controlling things in the
universe; "the laws of nature"; "nature has seen to it that men are
stronger than women"     * the natural physical world including plants
and animals and landscapes etc.; "they tried to preserve nature as they
found it"     * the complex of emotional and intellectual attributes
that determine a person's characteristic actions and reactions; "it is
his nature to help others"     * a particular type of thing; "problems
of this type are very difficult to solve"; "he's interested in trains
and things of that nature"; "matters of a personal nature"




Definitions of people:
    * (plural) any group of human beings (men or women or children)
collectively; "old people"; "there were at least 200 people in the
audience"     * citizenry: the body of citizens of a state or country;
"the Spanish people"     * fill with people; "Stalin wanted to people
the empty steppes"     * members of a family line; "his people have been
farmers for generations"; "are your people still alive?"     * furnish
with people; "The plains are sparsely populated"     * multitude: the
common people generally; "separate the warriors from the mass"; "power
to the people"


--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> I'll second that!  Bill!




> I was arguing that reality cannot be divided into two distinct things,
people and nature (despite what people might naturally think).
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Austin-Lane




> On Oct 22, 2010, at 20:24, Mark Perew mpe...@... wrote:
> Chris -
>
> I think you've rebutted your own statement. The separation from Nature
is illusion, maya, etc.




> On Oct 22, 2010, at 16:40, Mark Perew mpe...@... wrote:
>
> > Nature does not care what we do, because there is no person there to
care.

> People are a part of nature. People are a part of nature that has a
complex enough brain to get confused and try to live apart from our
actual reality, to be sure, but that is a pretty natural consequence of
our nervous systems being new to us and our being unskilled drivers.
>
> And some of these people do care. So parts of nature care.
>
> Of course, even then, there is no person to care. Just caring.



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