Chris -

My first wife slept through much of the labor of our first child.  This was
without medication.  The birth of our third child was the most difficult,
painful, and traumatic.

Nature does not subscribe to human rules of damage, loss, and harm.  Nature
just is.  Nature doesn't scream, it simply is.  Nature has no attachments,
it simply is. Nature has no goals, no regrets, no ambitions, no sense of
this human invention of time, no life, no non-life, no death, etc.  Nature
is.
On Oct 22, 2010 9:13 AM, "ChrisAustinLane" <ch...@austin-lane.net> wrote:
> Natural childbirth of the first child is more close to violent than
vigorous. Blood sweat and tears, giving your all for something other than
your self, and a world-changing triumph.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Austin-Lane
> Sent from a cell phone
>
> On Oct 22, 2010, at 1:31, <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Mayka,
>>
>> I was referring to the post below which talked about yelling in pain.
Maybe violent is a little over-the-top. How about vigorous?
>>
>> …Bill!
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Maria Lopez
>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 8:37 PM
>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to
meditation?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill:
>>
>>
>>
>> Is it violent?. What I have tried is that every time I'm about of getting
into the bath, laying my back on the very cold material of the bath I emit a
very long sound with the syllable "om"letting the breath going out through
the sound. The sound here doesn't come violent. However , while trying to
get into the sea for a swim when its waters are still cold it makes me Yell
very loudly with strange sounds in the awareness of in/out fast breathing
and fast movements of my both legs jumping as in a water marathon reheating
my body.. Didn't notice if the breath was violent. I'll try to attention to
that. But I know that in the beach everyone can hear me yelling. That
yelling is actually very good because it helps me to cope and reheat my body
better.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mayka
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 21/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
>> Subject: RE: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to
meditation?
>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Thursday, 21 October, 2010, 1:52
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually yelling is just a violent exhale. It would be followed by a
violent inhale – gasping for breath.
>>
>> This is an excellent breathing technique…Bill!
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Maria Lopez
>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 2:03 AM
>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to
meditation?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That sounds terrible Chris. And this is what I meant by reading or
overhearing about breathing but with no experience at all into that. As a
woman I should have encouraged her to yell as much as she wanted if that
would help her to dilate better and cope her pain. I would have hold her
hand very gentle but very firm and talk to her with reassurance and
kindnest. LIstening to her voice, to her body.. Being one with her.
Breathing with her. It's the heart acting as the guide that brings all that
sensitivity, unity between a patient and a carer, nurse, doctor...I wonder
if they can make an statistics about the heart too.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mayka
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 20/10/10, ChrisAustinLane <ch...@austin-lane.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: ChrisAustinLane <ch...@austin-lane.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to
meditation?
>> To: "Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com" <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
>> Cc: "Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com" <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, 20 October, 2010, 16:16
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris Austin-Lane
>> Sent from a cell phone
>>
>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:16, Maria Lopez <flordel...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> > If mindfulness is show in a scientific way the outcome will be a
disaster
>>
>> I have more faith. Scientists are humans, and there has already been much
suffering relieved by the meditation based therapies described in the
article. Science is another human activity.
>>
>> I agree tho for physically therapies you want a person who does their
work with grace. Your story reminded me of a nurse that was present while my
wife was delivering our first born, with out pain meds and therefor rather
loudly working at labor. At some point the yelling upset the nurse who
yelled at my wife, "do your relaxing breathing that you learned." despite
the indubitable power of conscious breathing, it was not a helpful thing to
yell at that time.
>>
>>
>>
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