--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez <flordel...@...> wrote:

> Bill:

> I wouldn't say about me that there is no arrogance.  There is
sometimes arrogance in me specially when something irritates me.


You mean that you are not *really* responsible for your elevated
self-image, but are at the mercy of your irritating ambiance? ;-)

> However in the case of  posting to ED arrogance was not intended.

>My intention was to make ED react in his Buddha nature and this was my
arrogance.  He was right to point it out.

> My intention was a good intention but I lacked of the skill and
instead I provoke in the reaction of his ego defending itself.

Mayka, I am consumed with envy for your ever well-intentioned and
ego-free speech and behavior, and I am quite disgusted with my own
defensive ego-puke.

> He appeared to be fluid in his zen notions but somehow his mind was
entangled and limited by it.

You have pointed to us how *not* to be.  Could you also edify us with a
description of how *to be*, by outlining the workings of your own mind? 

>  Just wanted to help him to get out of that.

Mayka, I am overwhelmed by your compassion.

> I have a long, long way to learn from your skill and ability to
communicate appropriately in a way that the talk is beneficial to the

> Mayka

In my estimation, Bill is an example of the effect that achieving
kensho/satori can have on a zen practitioner.

Whether what he says and, more importantly, how he says it, is
beneficial to any specific individual or not, is a function of that
person's degree of evolution.

When you relate to me and others as Bill does, I will acknowledge your
attainment of a mature kensho/satori - and it looks to me right now that
that may be decades away - as would be the case for me too.


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