My correction. Edgar is great, and his co-moderator Bill is second great.

--- On Mon, 25/10/10, Edgar Owen <> wrote:

From: Edgar Owen <>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen and the Brain
Date: Monday, 25 October, 2010, 6:02 PM


Correction Bill - those are my words, not Al's. You should know that as we 
discussed it when I wrote them and updated the Home Page.....


On Oct 25, 2010, at 12:00 AM, <> <> 



To the best of my knowledge the Yahoo! Zen Forum was established by Albert
Batista in 2002. Al does not participate often now, but has entrusted the
Moderator's role of the forum to Edgar Owen (who also doesn't now
participate very often) and me. As part of the Zen Forum Home Page
description of the forum Al wrote:

“We believe that true Zen is a realization and way of life which may be
found and practiced anywhere and is not confined within the gates of any
particular temple or sutra. While many of our members have studied Zen
formally we are not constrained by any particular teaching and seek to cut
directly through to reality wherever we may find ourselves.

Thus you will find this group a fun and freewheeling group that brings many
interesting and diverse perspectives to a serious and sometimes passionate
discussion of Zen. We welcome all new members at whatever level with an
interest in Zen and enlightenment to participate. On this group we are all
students, and all teachers!”

That is as an official answer as I can give you.

Of course each participant may have different reasons for participating in
this forum, and would therefore have different opinions on what the zen
forum ‘was about’.

For me the Zen Forum is an e-sangha, somewhere I can go to discuss zen and
other related subjects with others.

What do you think the Zen Forum is ‘about’?


From: [] On Behalf
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen and the Brain



What's the Zen Forum about?

Thanks, ED

--- In, <billsm...@...> wrote:

The one constant theme that runs through your comments below is that
to kensho (glimpsing Buddha Nature) it is okay to engage in intellectual
activities that you think help you understand zen'.

Zen is not something you can understand. You can form concepts and
about zen, but they are not zen. Any attempt to understand zen at best
will be unhelpful, and at worst will be misleading and detrimental.

A few posts ago I posted comments that I labeled as `logical'
`alogical'. The `alogical' comment was actually not
presented alogically.
It was a logical presentation of the concept of something alogical.
it's relevant here, and since I'd also like to correct that
error on my
part, I now present an alogical response to your comments post below. It
can also be directed at Mike's recent comments on the same subject. It
is a
paraphrasing of a story of an excellent alogical response given by an
historical zen master:

Ed approached Joshu in all earnestness, "I want to practice zen.
I've read
many books on zen, meditation and consciousness. I keep up-to-date on
the latest discoveries in the realm of physiology and psychology that
relates to zen. Please give me instructions."

Joshu asked, "Have you eaten your lunch yet?"

Ed replied, "Yes I have. I just got up from the table, and I know
from my
studies that when I eat my body redirects a large portion of my blood to
digestive system and that results in decreased ability to concentrate,
so I
probably shouldn't sit zazen right now. What do you recommend?"

Joshu replied, "Wash your dishes."

…adapted from JOSHU'S"WASH YOUR BOWLS", Case 7 – THE


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