Why isn't karma, us, us ,us? r u a unique soul? even so, how could something as complex as karma be attributed to a single soul? are there heirarchies of karmic levels? how deep do you want to really go beyond your own self-limiting beliefs?
Bill!, plz correct me, but at a very REAL at-one-ment, this whole subj/obj dichotomy, duality, (devil???) is erased into THIS! WHO! && MU? but if you must, study recursive properties of axioms...if u are u, who is realizing u? then if that is u...who is that that is realizing u realizing u? ad infinitum tum tum. WHO does karma effect? just a poem sung, plz subtract TaoSheiFei On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Anthony Wu <[email protected]> wrote: > ** > > > Bill, > > Karma is you, you, you. > > Anthony > > *From:* Bill! <[email protected]> > *To:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Wednesday, 11 January 2012, 10:22 > > *Subject:* Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did your > friends & family react? > > > Anthony, > > I am still a little confused as how you think of karma. > > You say 'karma is inside you'. Is karma seperate from you but inside you, > or is karma you? > > You say 'karma exists by itself'. Does it exist independent of you, or is > karma you? > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > >  > > Karma is inside you and functions without an outside agency such as God. > It reflects cause and effect. Whether you view it as the same action or two > actions, they originate from the same source. Buddhism does not create > karma, (much less a God). It exists by itself. > >  > > Anthony > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012, 16:18 > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did your > friends & family react? > > > > > >  > > Anthony, > > > > When I said 'outside agency' I meant 'outside of you' or 'other than > you'. When you say 'karma functions by itself' you are implying that karma > exists independently of you; like when you say 'not my will but Yours > (God's) be done' you are implying that God exists independently of you. You > are implying that 'karma' and 'God' are 'outside agencies' - outside of > and/or separate from you. > > > > I am saying that both the concept of 'karma' and 'God' and all their > supposed attributes and associated powers/activites are NOT separate from > you. That are created by you - by your discriminating mind. They are > illusory. > > > > If you kill, there is killing. If you are killed, you die. If you loot, > there is looting. If you are looted, you loose property. The killing is not > the cause and the dieing the effect. It is the same action viewed or > described from two perspectives. It is Just THIS! > > > > This is my experience...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > >  > > > The difference is that karma does not rely on God or any other > 'outside agent'. It functions by itself. On the other hand, if you deny > karma, does that mean whatever you do, whether killing, looting or burning, > does not have any effects? You may say you rely on law to take care of it. > But that is part of karma, at the human level. Nevertheless, it is more > realistic than reliance on God. if all are illusory, killing and looting > will be out of control. In that case, believing in God is better than > believing in nothing. > > >  > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Monday, 9 January 2012, 13:00 > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did > your friends & family react? > > > > > > > > >  > > > Anthony, > > > > > > How are they different concepts? > > > > > > Both have to do with action/reaction (cause and effect), and both > exist as a concept in your mind. > > > > > > Labeling some actions/reactions or cause/effect as good or bad (good > deeds lead to reward or sin leads to punishment; or accumulation of [bad] > karma leads to being re-born as a toad) is just packaging. Likewise > attributng the enforcement of actions/reactions or cause/effect to an > outside agency such as karma or God is also just packaging. > > > > > > It all looks the same to me - illusory, dualistic packaging. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > >  > > > > It is a different message you wrap in the same envelope. > > > >  > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Monday, 9 January 2012, 9:15 > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did > your friends & family react? > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > Anthony, > > > > > > > > You definition of karma is well stated, but why do you not think > that definition could not also be applied to the Christian concept of > sin/obedience and Hell/Heaven? > > > > > > > > For me it's the same message in a different envelope. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That is not karma, but reward and punishment by God. Karma is > action and reaction by yourself through your own mind (or Buddha nature). > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Sunday, 8 January 2012, 18:03 > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did > your friends & family react? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > Christians beleive in 'karma' also: if you're 'good' you go to > Heaven and if you're 'bad' you go to Hell...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ItÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ is not at all > surprising that you got a funny reaction from people surrounding you when > you said you were interested in Buddhism. Try doing the same thing with > Moslems, and you get a funnier response. Even in this forum, which is less > hostile to Buddhism, you find different views on it. > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > The key point in Buddhism is karma. But Hinduism also agrees to > karma. The difference between the two is the former insists that karma is > your own business, nobody else can help you change it. However, in > Hinduism, there are powerful deities who respond to your requests and > assist you. Don't forget we are a zen forum, and there are a view I term > chaotic zen, which denies anything on karma, or any laws or rules. They say > everything is in chaos. On the other hand, you will also hear all kinds of > Buddhist views here. I hope you have fun here. > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: dan_guzy <dan_guzy@> > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, 7 January 2012, 16:08 > > > > > > Subject: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did > your friends & family react? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > I seem to be having trouble with this. I'm new to buddhism, just > recently starting reading up on it the past several months, although > technically I've been exposed to it for many years through a variety of tv > shows, movies, etc. My favorite was Kung Fu: The Legend Continues. Don't > know why, but the scenes with the shoalin temple and buddhist monks were > always my favorite. > > > > > > > > > > > > Although I haven't come right out and said to my family (except > for my sister) that I'm learning about Buddhism, they've seen the books and > notes I leave to myself pertaining to it. So far, it has not been > encouraging. They kind of give a disgusted look or a groan when they see it > that suggests that they are not happy about it. They are catholics. I'm an > atheist (which they've known for years). When I finally told my sister that > I'd like to visit a temple in town, she got disqusted and said "why? You'll > never go with me to my church, but you'll go to a buddhist church?" I > didn't know what to say, so I told her the truth, that I didn't feel > anything for catholicism anymore, and that it didn't feel like the right > religion for me. She wasn't pleased. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then today I was having a chat with a co-worker and boss at > work. I get along great with both of them, known them for several years. My > co-worker mentioned she and her husband were atheists, so I told her I was > too. We both got a kick out of it realizing that we never knew that about > each other. Then I mentioned to her that I had been reading up on buddhism > lately, and she gave the same kind of groan I've been hearing from my > family. My boss just sort of gave a look of shock and disbelief, didn't say > anything. I couple of weeks or so before that, I was discussing various > books with another boss that we like to read, and I mentioned one I'd been > reading called the Peaceful Warrior. He asked what it was about so I told > him, and when I mentioned it has a buddhist theme to it, he gave a funny > look. > > > > > > > > > > > > What's funny about all of this is that I've always figured > buddhism to be one of the most revered and highly respected forms of > philosophy and religion on earth. Even growing up I felt that way. When I > go online to Yahoo Answers R&S forum to ask a question pertaining to it, I > haven't had any bad replies over a single question, and if any of you have > ever been on there, you know they can be harsh sometimes in that section. > So it really threw me for a loop seeing all these crazy reactions from > people I know. > > > > > > > > > > > > Did any of you get these same reactions from the people you knew > when you were first learning about buddhism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
