TaoSheiFei,
You asked:
>WHO does karma effect?
Karma affects you (illusory self). When the illusory self disappears
("at-one-ment", Mu, Just THIS!) karma also disappears.
No this/that, here/there,
No high/low, good/bad, no self,
No karma, Just THIS!
...Bill!
--- In [email protected], yonyonson@... wrote:
>
> Why isn't karma, us, us ,us? r u a unique soul? even so, how could
> something as complex as karma be attributed to a single soul? are there
> heirarchies of karmic levels? how deep do you want to really go beyond
> your own self-limiting beliefs?
>
> Bill!, plz correct me, but at a very REAL at-one-ment, this whole subj/obj
> dichotomy, duality, (devil???) is erased into THIS! WHO! && MU? but if
> you must, study recursive properties of axioms...if u are u, who is
> realizing u? then if that is u...who is that that is realizing u realizing
> u? ad infinitum tum tum. WHO does karma effect?
>
> just a poem sung, plz subtract
> TaoSheiFei
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Karma is you, you, you.
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> > *From:* Bill! <BillSmart@...>
> > *To:* [email protected]
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, 11 January 2012, 10:22
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did your
> > friends & family react?
> >
> >
> > Anthony,
> >
> > I am still a little confused as how you think of karma.
> >
> > You say 'karma is inside you'. Is karma seperate from you but inside you,
> > or is karma you?
> >
> > You say 'karma exists by itself'. Does it exist independent of you, or is
> > karma you?
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > > Ã
> > > Karma is inside you and functions without an outside agency such as God.
> > It reflects cause and effect. Whether you view it as the same action or two
> > actions, they originate from the same source. Buddhism does not create
> > karma, (much less a God). It exists by itself.
> > > Ã
> > > Anthony
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@>
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012, 16:18
> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did your
> > friends & family react?
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã
> > > Anthony,
> > >
> > > When I said 'outside agency' I meant 'outside of you' or 'other than
> > you'. When you say 'karma functions by itself' you are implying that karma
> > exists independently of you; like when you say 'not my will but Yours
> > (God's) be done' you are implying that God exists independently of you. You
> > are implying that 'karma' and 'God' are 'outside agencies' - outside of
> > and/or separate from you.
> > >
> > > I am saying that both the concept of 'karma' and 'God' and all their
> > supposed attributes and associated powers/activites are NOT separate from
> > you. That are created by you - by your discriminating mind. They are
> > illusory.
> > >
> > > If you kill, there is killing. If you are killed, you die. If you loot,
> > there is looting. If you are looted, you loose property. The killing is not
> > the cause and the dieing the effect. It is the same action viewed or
> > described from two perspectives. It is Just THIS!
> > >
> > > This is my experience...Bill!
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > > ÃâÃ
> > > > The difference is that karma does not rely on God or any other
> > 'outside agent'. It functions by itself. On the other hand, if you deny
> > karma, does that mean whatever you do, whether killing, looting or burning,
> > does not have any effects? You may say you rely on law to take care of it.
> > But that is part of karma, at the human level. Nevertheless, it is more
> > realistic than reliance on God. if all are illusory, killing and looting
> > will be out of control. In that case, believing in God is better than
> > believing in nothing.
> > > > ÃâÃ
> > > > Anthony
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@>
> > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > Sent: Monday, 9 January 2012, 13:00
> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did
> > your friends & family react?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ÃâÃ
> > > > Anthony,
> > > >
> > > > How are they different concepts?
> > > >
> > > > Both have to do with action/reaction (cause and effect), and both
> > exist as a concept in your mind.
> > > >
> > > > Labeling some actions/reactions or cause/effect as good or bad (good
> > deeds lead to reward or sin leads to punishment; or accumulation of [bad]
> > karma leads to being re-born as a toad) is just packaging. Likewise
> > attributng the enforcement of actions/reactions or cause/effect to an
> > outside agency such as karma or God is also just packaging.
> > > >
> > > > It all looks the same to me - illusory, dualistic packaging.
> > > >
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > >
> > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill,
> > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃ
> > > > > It is a different message you wrap in the same envelope.
> > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃ
> > > > > Anthony
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@>
> > > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, 9 January 2012, 9:15
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did
> > your friends & family react?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃ
> > > > > Anthony,
> > > > >
> > > > > You definition of karma is well stated, but why do you not think
> > that definition could not also be applied to the Christian concept of
> > sin/obedience and Hell/Heaven?
> > > > >
> > > > > For me it's the same message in a different envelope.
> > > > >
> > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That is not karma, but reward and punishment by God. Karma is
> > action and reaction by yourself through your own mind (or Buddha nature).
> > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã
¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃ
> > > > > > Anthony
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@>
> > > > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, 8 January 2012, 18:03
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did
> > your friends & family react?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã
¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃ
> > > > > > Christians beleive in 'karma' also: if you're 'good' you go to
> > Heaven and if you're 'bad' you go to Hell...Bill!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ItÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã
¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃ
> > > > > > > is not at all
> > surprising that you got a funny reaction from people surrounding you when
> > you said you were interested in Buddhism. Try doing the same thing with
> > Moslems, and you get a funnier response. Even in this forum, which is less
> > hostile to Buddhism, you find different views on it.
> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã
¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃ
> > > > > > > The key point in Buddhism is karma. But Hinduism also agrees to
> > karma. The difference between the two is the former insists that karma is
> > your own business, nobody else can help you change it. However, in
> > Hinduism, there are powerful deities who respond to your requests and
> > assist you. Don't forget we are a zen forum, and there are a view I term
> > chaotic zen, which denies anything on karma, or any laws or rules. They say
> > everything is in chaos. On the other hand, you will also hear all kinds of
> > Buddhist views here. I hope you have fun here.
> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã
¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃ
> > > > > > > Anthony
> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã
¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃ
> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã
¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃ
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > > From: dan_guzy <dan_guzy@>
> > > > > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, 7 January 2012, 16:08
> > > > > > > Subject: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did
> > your friends & family react?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã
¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃ
> > > > > > > I seem to be having trouble with this. I'm new to buddhism, just
> > recently starting reading up on it the past several months, although
> > technically I've been exposed to it for many years through a variety of tv
> > shows, movies, etc. My favorite was Kung Fu: The Legend Continues. Don't
> > know why, but the scenes with the shoalin temple and buddhist monks were
> > always my favorite.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Although I haven't come right out and said to my family (except
> > for my sister) that I'm learning about Buddhism, they've seen the books and
> > notes I leave to myself pertaining to it. So far, it has not been
> > encouraging. They kind of give a disgusted look or a groan when they see it
> > that suggests that they are not happy about it. They are catholics. I'm an
> > atheist (which they've known for years). When I finally told my sister that
> > I'd like to visit a temple in town, she got disqusted and said "why? You'll
> > never go with me to my church, but you'll go to a buddhist church?" I
> > didn't know what to say, so I told her the truth, that I didn't feel
> > anything for catholicism anymore, and that it didn't feel like the right
> > religion for me. She wasn't pleased.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Then today I was having a chat with a co-worker and boss at
> > work. I get along great with both of them, known them for several years. My
> > co-worker mentioned she and her husband were atheists, so I told her I was
> > too. We both got a kick out of it realizing that we never knew that about
> > each other. Then I mentioned to her that I had been reading up on buddhism
> > lately, and she gave the same kind of groan I've been hearing from my
> > family. My boss just sort of gave a look of shock and disbelief, didn't say
> > anything. I couple of weeks or so before that, I was discussing various
> > books with another boss that we like to read, and I mentioned one I'd been
> > reading called the Peaceful Warrior. He asked what it was about so I told
> > him, and when I mentioned it has a buddhist theme to it, he gave a funny
> > look.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What's funny about all of this is that I've always figured
> > buddhism to be one of the most revered and highly respected forms of
> > philosophy and religion on earth. Even growing up I felt that way. When I
> > go online to Yahoo Answers R&S forum to ask a question pertaining to it, I
> > haven't had any bad replies over a single question, and if any of you have
> > ever been on there, you know they can be harsh sometimes in that section.
> > So it really threw me for a loop seeing all these crazy reactions from
> > people I know.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Did any of you get these same reactions from the people you knew
> > when you were first learning about buddhism?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------
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