Hi Bill, If you ask any China man, he will tell you observe your breath,
is also called observe your chi. :-)
On 9/11/2012 6:37 PM, Bill! wrote:
JMJM, et al...
My initial teachers encouraged me to switch legs, rock back and forth,
stand up and walk around and even use different postures, (full-lotus,
half-lotus, cross-legged, kneeling and even just sitting on a chair -
as long as whatever posture I used allowed me to breathe freely and
deeply. That requires at least an erect back to allow for 'belly
breathing' (breathing by using the diaphragm instead of the chest or
shoulders). Of course if we were sitting with a group we were
encouraged not to change legs or do anything overt which might bother
others. Our sitting sessions were usually 20-40 mins, then a 5-min
break, and then another session. We would sit 3 sessions like that.
...Bill!
--- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
覺妙精明 （JMJM） <chan.jmjm@...> wrote:
>
> If I may add to this...
>
> My teacher asks us "avoid switching legs during sitting..." In other
> words, it is for training our mind to be detached from our physical
> body. Because, the physical body is our first hindrance to
> enlightenment. Then there is the hindrance of our mind and hindrance of
> our spirit to surpass next... Not hard. Right? :-)
>
>
> On 9/11/2012 4:33 PM, mike brown wrote:
> > ED,
> >
> > I can't talk about zazen, but in Vipassana, pain is something we're
> > taught to welcome (within reason) because it's a good tool to
teach us
> > insight into impermanence, suffering and an impersonal self. I can
> > honestly say that sitting without moving for an hour, or more,
> > sometimes creates the most intense pain I have ever suffered in my
> > life! The only time I've found that pain is completely alleviated is
> > when I've entered into the jhanas. This is no exaggeration. I've gone
> > from the most intense white-hot pain to the most ecstatic bliss in an
> > instant. Of course, and here's the lesson, this state passes and the
> > pain comes back once more. A valuable lesson in the arising and
> > passing of phenomena that is way beyond just an intellectual
> > understanding.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* ED <seacrofter001@...>
> > *To:* [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 September 2012, 15:16
> > *Subject:* [Zen] Re: suffering
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill! and Mike,
> >
> > Is it not the case that zazen or vipasana can also help alleviate
pain?
> >
> > --ED
> >
> > --- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Merle,
> > >
> > > I am also 66!
> > >
> > > I'm about to give you some of my definitions of terms and they're
> > pretty 'tough-love' definitions so be warned...
> > >
> > > Pain is NOT suffering. Pain is pain. Suffering is feeling sorry for
> > yourself (your self) because perhaps you're in pain and that does not
> > meet up with your expectations and disappoints you.
> > >
> > > You do not have to suffer.
> > >
> > > The best example I know of this is a 3-legged dog. I'm sure you've
> > seen many of them. They aren't suffering because (I presume) they
don't
> > have a strong 'mental model' of 'self'. They don't feel sorry for
> > themselves. They don't compare themselves to other dogs. They just
make
> > do with what they've got. I've seen dogs with only 2 legs and they
don't
> > act any differently than those with 4. You could be a little
> > condescending and say 'they don't know any better' - when actually you
> > should be just saying 'they don't know' - and good for them.
> > >
> > > Contrast that with a human who has lost a leg. Many such humans will
> > suffer. They'll wonder 'why me'? 'What did I do to deserve this?'
And be
> > envious of full-bodied humans who can do more and have more than they.
> > Why? Because they DO have a strong 'mental model' of 'self' and have
> > expectations of what life SHOULD be like, and do compare
themselves with
> > others. Their life is not like others (the majority) and this
> > disappoints them so they suffer.
> > >
> > > Zazen can help...
> > >
> > > ...Bill!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
