JMJM, That's good information, but I think you mean a whole lot more when you use the term 'chi' than just 'breath'...Bill!
--- In [email protected], 覺å¦ç²¾æ ï¼JMJMï¼ <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > Hi Bill, If you ask any China man, he will tell you observe your breath, > is also called observe your chi. :-) > > On 9/11/2012 6:37 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > JMJM, et al... > > > > My initial teachers encouraged me to switch legs, rock back and forth, > > stand up and walk around and even use different postures, (full-lotus, > > half-lotus, cross-legged, kneeling and even just sitting on a chair - > > as long as whatever posture I used allowed me to breathe freely and > > deeply. That requires at least an erect back to allow for 'belly > > breathing' (breathing by using the diaphragm instead of the chest or > > shoulders). Of course if we were sitting with a group we were > > encouraged not to change legs or do anything overt which might bother > > others. Our sitting sessions were usually 20-40 mins, then a 5-min > > break, and then another session. We would sit 3 sessions like that. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ ï¼ËJMJMï¼Ⱐ<chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > If I may add to this... > > > > > > My teacher asks us "avoid switching legs during sitting..." In other > > > words, it is for training our mind to be detached from our physical > > > body. Because, the physical body is our first hindrance to > > > enlightenment. Then there is the hindrance of our mind and hindrance of > > > our spirit to surpass next... Not hard. Right? :-) > > > > > > > > > On 9/11/2012 4:33 PM, mike brown wrote: > > > > ED, > > > > > > > > I can't talk about zazen, but in Vipassana, pain is something we're > > > > taught to welcome (within reason) because it's a good tool to > > teach us > > > > insight into impermanence, suffering and an impersonal self. I can > > > > honestly say that sitting without moving for an hour, or more, > > > > sometimes creates the most intense pain I have ever suffered in my > > > > life! The only time I've found that pain is completely alleviated is > > > > when I've entered into the jhanas. This is no exaggeration. I've gone > > > > from the most intense white-hot pain to the most ecstatic bliss in an > > > > instant. Of course, and here's the lesson, this state passes and the > > > > pain comes back once more. A valuable lesson in the arising and > > > > passing of phenomena that is way beyond just an intellectual > > > > understanding. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > *From:* ED <seacrofter001@> > > > > *To:* [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 September 2012, 15:16 > > > > *Subject:* [Zen] Re: suffering > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill! and Mike, > > > > > > > > Is it not the case that zazen or vipasana can also help alleviate > > pain? > > > > > > > > --ED > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected] > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > I am also 66! > > > > > > > > > > I'm about to give you some of my definitions of terms and they're > > > > pretty 'tough-love' definitions so be warned... > > > > > > > > > > Pain is NOT suffering. Pain is pain. Suffering is feeling sorry for > > > > yourself (your self) because perhaps you're in pain and that does not > > > > meet up with your expectations and disappoints you. > > > > > > > > > > You do not have to suffer. > > > > > > > > > > The best example I know of this is a 3-legged dog. I'm sure you've > > > > seen many of them. They aren't suffering because (I presume) they > > don't > > > > have a strong 'mental model' of 'self'. They don't feel sorry for > > > > themselves. They don't compare themselves to other dogs. They just > > make > > > > do with what they've got. I've seen dogs with only 2 legs and they > > don't > > > > act any differently than those with 4. You could be a little > > > > condescending and say 'they don't know any better' - when actually you > > > > should be just saying 'they don't know' - and good for them. > > > > > > > > > > Contrast that with a human who has lost a leg. Many such humans will > > > > suffer. They'll wonder 'why me'? 'What did I do to deserve this?' > > And be > > > > envious of full-bodied humans who can do more and have more than they. > > > > Why? Because they DO have a strong 'mental model' of 'self' and have > > > > expectations of what life SHOULD be like, and do compare > > themselves with > > > > others. Their life is not like others (the majority) and this > > > > disappoints them so they suffer. > > > > > > > > > > Zazen can help... > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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