JMJM,
That's good information, but I think you mean a whole lot more when
you use the term 'chi' than just 'breath'...Bill!
--- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
覺妙精明 （JMJM） <chan.jmjm@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bill, If you ask any China man, he will tell you observe your
breath,
> is also called observe your chi. :-)
>
> On 9/11/2012 6:37 PM, Bill! wrote:
> >
> > JMJM, et al...
> >
> > My initial teachers encouraged me to switch legs, rock back and
forth,
> > stand up and walk around and even use different postures,
(full-lotus,
> > half-lotus, cross-legged, kneeling and even just sitting on a chair -
> > as long as whatever posture I used allowed me to breathe freely and
> > deeply. That requires at least an erect back to allow for 'belly
> > breathing' (breathing by using the diaphragm instead of the chest or
> > shoulders). Of course if we were sitting with a group we were
> > encouraged not to change legs or do anything overt which might bother
> > others. Our sitting sessions were usually 20-40 mins, then a 5-min
> > break, and then another session. We would sit 3 sessions like that.
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > 覺妙精明 （JMJM） <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > If I may add to this...
> > >
> > > My teacher asks us "avoid switching legs during sitting..." In other
> > > words, it is for training our mind to be detached from our physical
> > > body. Because, the physical body is our first hindrance to
> > > enlightenment. Then there is the hindrance of our mind and
hindrance of
> > > our spirit to surpass next... Not hard. Right? :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/11/2012 4:33 PM, mike brown wrote:
> > > > ED,
> > > >
> > > > I can't talk about zazen, but in Vipassana, pain is something
we're
> > > > taught to welcome (within reason) because it's a good tool to
> > teach us
> > > > insight into impermanence, suffering and an impersonal self. I can
> > > > honestly say that sitting without moving for an hour, or more,
> > > > sometimes creates the most intense pain I have ever suffered in my
> > > > life! The only time I've found that pain is completely
alleviated is
> > > > when I've entered into the jhanas. This is no exaggeration.
I've gone
> > > > from the most intense white-hot pain to the most ecstatic
bliss in an
> > > > instant. Of course, and here's the lesson, this state passes
and the
> > > > pain comes back once more. A valuable lesson in the arising and
> > > > passing of phenomena that is way beyond just an intellectual
> > > > understanding.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > *From:* ED <seacrofter001@>
> > > > *To:* [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 September 2012, 15:16
> > > > *Subject:* [Zen] Re: suffering
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bill! and Mike,
> > > >
> > > > Is it not the case that zazen or vipasana can also help alleviate
> > pain?
> > > >
> > > > --ED
> > > >
> > > > --- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Merle,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am also 66!
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm about to give you some of my definitions of terms and
they're
> > > > pretty 'tough-love' definitions so be warned...
> > > > >
> > > > > Pain is NOT suffering. Pain is pain. Suffering is feeling
sorry for
> > > > yourself (your self) because perhaps you're in pain and that
does not
> > > > meet up with your expectations and disappoints you.
> > > > >
> > > > > You do not have to suffer.
> > > > >
> > > > > The best example I know of this is a 3-legged dog. I'm sure
you've
> > > > seen many of them. They aren't suffering because (I presume) they
> > don't
> > > > have a strong 'mental model' of 'self'. They don't feel sorry for
> > > > themselves. They don't compare themselves to other dogs. They
just
> > make
> > > > do with what they've got. I've seen dogs with only 2 legs and
they
> > don't
> > > > act any differently than those with 4. You could be a little
> > > > condescending and say 'they don't know any better' - when
actually you
> > > > should be just saying 'they don't know' - and good for them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Contrast that with a human who has lost a leg. Many such
humans will
> > > > suffer. They'll wonder 'why me'? 'What did I do to deserve this?'
> > And be
> > > > envious of full-bodied humans who can do more and have more
than they.
> > > > Why? Because they DO have a strong 'mental model' of 'self'
and have
> > > > expectations of what life SHOULD be like, and do compare
> > themselves with
> > > > others. Their life is not like others (the majority) and this
> > > > disappoints them so they suffer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Zazen can help...
> > > > >
> > > > > ...Bill!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
