Not yet, Chris. What do you recommend? In my life, I had only one
teacher and all in Chinese. I signed up to this forum to learn English
translation and zen terminologies. At the beginning I posted this
question to every forum I signed up, "Is there spirituality in Zen?"
Almost all Zen forum said no, except one asked back, what do you mean by
spirituality. :-)
I have learned a lot so far. Thank to everyone. JM
On 9/12/2012 9:06 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
JMJM: Did you ever read Journey to the West?
On Sep 12, 2012 8:24 AM, "覺妙精明 （JMJM）" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Edgar,
Valid statement. The end goal is to harmonize both the form and
the formless, via synchronization with the pulse of the universe.
It is in every moment as well as 24/7. Yet, we need a foundation
to accomplish this.
As you know, the authentic Chan sitting is really Tao. It is like
qigong, but not exactly the same. The first stage is to cultivate
and enhance our chi to integrate our body to a total oneness, not
by abandoning or ignoring it, but to integrate it with our mind
and spirit as one.
Then the realization, or the wisdom, synchronizes truly with
Buddha, or God, or universe.
The first step of ignoring the pain is for us to transcend our
habitual addiction to comfort. It feels like cold turkey. :-)
jm
On 9/12/2012 3:32 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
JM,
The real lesson here is the futility of trying to find
enlightenment by sitting or otherwise going AGAINST the physical
body. One may temporarily achieve mindlessness this way but in
the end the physical body will ALWAYS win and bring the mind back
to the reality of daily life. This is quite obvious...
That's why trying to find enlightenment by sitting mindlessly is
an ILLUSION, one of the biggest illusions for Zen practicers
especially. In the end it never works because it simply CANNOT be
maintained for more than a few hours at most...
The WAY of true Zen is realizing Zen in ALL of daily life. It is
not trying to escape the daily world of forms but realizing the
reality of Buddha Nature (ontological energy or Tao) IN the daily
world of forms. Only this is true Zen because it is 24/7.
Sitting mindlessly in zazen can be a useful part of realization,
but it IS NOT the whole of Zen..
Edgar
On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:21 PM, 覺妙精明 （JMJM） wrote:
If I may add to this...
My teacher asks us "avoid switching legs during sitting..."
In other words, it is for training our mind to be detached from
our physical body. Because, the physical body is our first
hindrance to enlightenment. Then there is the hindrance of our
mind and hindrance of our spirit to surpass next... Not hard.
Right? :-)
On 9/11/2012 4:33 PM, mike brown wrote:
ED,
I can't talk about zazen, but in Vipassana, pain is something
we're taught to welcome (within reason) because it's a good
tool to teach us insight into impermanence, suffering and an
impersonal self. I can honestly say that sitting without moving
for an hour, or more, sometimes creates the most intense pain I
have ever suffered in my life! The only time I've found that
pain is completely alleviated is when I've entered into the
jhanas. This is no exaggeration. I've gone from the most
intense white-hot pain to the most ecstatic bliss in an
instant. Of course, and here's the lesson, this state passes
and the pain comes back once more. A valuable lesson in the
arising and passing of phenomena that is way beyond just an
intellectual understanding.
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* ED <[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]>
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Tuesday, 11 September 2012, 15:16
*Subject:* [Zen] Re: suffering
Bill! and Mike,
Is it not the case that zazen or vipasana can also help
alleviate pain?
--ED
--- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, "Bill!" <BillSmart@...>
<mailto:BillSmart@...> wrote:
>
> Merle,
>
> I am also 66!
>
> I'm about to give you some of my definitions of terms and they're
pretty 'tough-love' definitions so be warned...
>
> Pain is NOT suffering. Pain is pain. Suffering is feeling
sorry for
yourself (your self) because perhaps you're in pain and that
does not
meet up with your expectations and disappoints you.
>
> You do not have to suffer.
>
> The best example I know of this is a 3-legged dog. I'm sure
you've
seen many of them. They aren't suffering because (I presume)
they don't
have a strong 'mental model' of 'self'. They don't feel sorry for
themselves. They don't compare themselves to other dogs. They
just make
do with what they've got. I've seen dogs with only 2 legs and
they don't
act any differently than those with 4. You could be a little
condescending and say 'they don't know any better' - when
actually you
should be just saying 'they don't know' - and good for them.
>
> Contrast that with a human who has lost a leg. Many such
humans will
suffer. They'll wonder 'why me'? 'What did I do to deserve
this?' And be
envious of full-bodied humans who can do more and have more
than they.
Why? Because they DO have a strong 'mental model' of 'self' and
have
expectations of what life SHOULD be like, and do compare
themselves with
others. Their life is not like others (the majority) and this
disappoints them so they suffer.
>
> Zazen can help...
>
> ...Bill!
