For anyone interested there are online versions, and a dowloadable PFD
version here: http://www.chine-informations.com/fichiers/jourwest.pdf
KG
On 9/12/2012 12:45 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Journey to the West is a classic Chinese novel by Wu Cheng'en about
the Monkey King and his adventures to retrieve some Buddhist scrolls
from India for the Emperor (at the behest of
Kwan Yin sort of). there are a number of sequences involving
interactions between Taoist sages and the Buddhist pilgrims that are
quite funny; sometimes serious writings about religion reminds me of it.
I understand if you can read it in.the original you should. There is
an abridged but very idiomatic translation I read aloud to my kids by
Arthur Waley. I also have read much of the more scholarly and less
fun complete translation by Anthony Yu. it is a good antidote to too
much reading of ancient scriptures about Zen. you realize it is ok to
trick Lao Tsu out of the elixir of life if that's what you have to do.
But don't mess with Buddha - you'll be outwitted everytime.
On Sep 12, 2012 9:19 AM, "覺妙精明 （JMJM）" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Not yet, Chris. What do you recommend? In my life, I had only
one teacher and all in Chinese. I signed up to this forum to
learn English translation and zen terminologies. At the beginning
I posted this question to every forum I signed up, "Is there
spirituality in Zen?" Almost all Zen forum said no, except one
asked back, what do you mean by spirituality. :-)
I have learned a lot so far. Thank to everyone. JM
On 9/12/2012 9:06 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
JMJM: Did you ever read Journey to the West?
On Sep 12, 2012 8:24 AM, "覺妙精明 （JMJM）" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Edgar,
Valid statement. The end goal is to harmonize both the form
and the formless, via synchronization with the pulse of the
universe. It is in every moment as well as 24/7. Yet, we
need a foundation to accomplish this.
As you know, the authentic Chan sitting is really Tao. It is
like qigong, but not exactly the same. The first stage is to
cultivate and enhance our chi to integrate our body to a
total oneness, not by abandoning or ignoring it, but to
integrate it with our mind and spirit as one.
Then the realization, or the wisdom, synchronizes truly with
Buddha, or God, or universe.
The first step of ignoring the pain is for us to transcend
our habitual addiction to comfort. It feels like cold
turkey. :-)
jm
On 9/12/2012 3:32 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
JM,
The real lesson here is the futility of trying to find
enlightenment by sitting or otherwise going AGAINST the
physical body. One may temporarily achieve mindlessness this
way but in the end the physical body will ALWAYS win and
bring the mind back to the reality of daily life. This is
quite obvious...
That's why trying to find enlightenment by sitting
mindlessly is an ILLUSION, one of the biggest illusions for
Zen practicers especially. In the end it never works because
it simply CANNOT be maintained for more than a few hours at
most...
The WAY of true Zen is realizing Zen in ALL of daily life.
It is not trying to escape the daily world of forms but
realizing the reality of Buddha Nature (ontological energy
or Tao) IN the daily world of forms. Only this is true Zen
because it is 24/7.
Sitting mindlessly in zazen can be a useful part of
realization, but it IS NOT the whole of Zen..
Edgar
On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:21 PM, 覺妙精明 （JMJM） wrote:
If I may add to this...
My teacher asks us "avoid switching legs during
sitting..." In other words, it is for training our mind
to be detached from our physical body. Because, the
physical body is our first hindrance to enlightenment.
Then there is the hindrance of our mind and hindrance of
our spirit to surpass next... Not hard. Right? :-)
On 9/11/2012 4:33 PM, mike brown wrote:
ED,
I can't talk about zazen, but in Vipassana, pain is
something we're taught to welcome (within reason) because
it's a good tool to teach us insight into impermanence,
suffering and an impersonal self. I can honestly say that
sitting without moving for an hour, or more, sometimes
creates the most intense pain I have ever suffered in my
life! The only time I've found that pain is completely
alleviated is when I've entered into the jhanas. This is
no exaggeration. I've gone from the most intense white-hot
pain to the most ecstatic bliss in an instant. Of course,
and here's the lesson, this state passes and the pain
comes back once more. A valuable lesson in the arising and
passing of phenomena that is way beyond just an
intellectual understanding.
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* ED <[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]>
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Tuesday, 11 September 2012, 15:16
*Subject:* [Zen] Re: suffering
Bill! and Mike,
Is it not the case that zazen or vipasana can also help
alleviate pain?
--ED
--- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, "Bill!"
<BillSmart@...> <mailto:BillSmart@...> wrote:
>
> Merle,
>
> I am also 66!
>
> I'm about to give you some of my definitions of terms
and they're
pretty 'tough-love' definitions so be warned...
>
> Pain is NOT suffering. Pain is pain. Suffering is
feeling sorry for
yourself (your self) because perhaps you're in pain and
that does not
meet up with your expectations and disappoints you.
>
> You do not have to suffer.
>
> The best example I know of this is a 3-legged dog. I'm
sure you've
seen many of them. They aren't suffering because (I
presume) they don't
have a strong 'mental model' of 'self'. They don't feel
sorry for
themselves. They don't compare themselves to other dogs.
They just make
do with what they've got. I've seen dogs with only 2 legs
and they don't
act any differently than those with 4. You could be a little
condescending and say 'they don't know any better' - when
actually you
should be just saying 'they don't know' - and good for them.
>
> Contrast that with a human who has lost a leg. Many such
humans will
suffer. They'll wonder 'why me'? 'What did I do to deserve
this?' And be
envious of full-bodied humans who can do more and have
more than they.
Why? Because they DO have a strong 'mental model' of
'self' and have
expectations of what life SHOULD be like, and do compare
themselves with
others. Their life is not like others (the majority) and this
disappoints them so they suffer.
>
> Zazen can help...
>
> ...Bill!
