Edgar, I agree with what you've said below vis-a-vis zen, but not vis-a-vis Zen Buddhism. Buddhism is rife with myths.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Actually the Christ myth, and that's what it is a myth, is something that > evolved from earlier personifications of the seasons where life was seen to > die in winter and be reborn in Spring, and by extension the hope that people > too could also rise from the dead and enjoy new lives. There are quite a few > other earlier myths such as that of Persephone or Osiris that are precursors > to The Christ myth. > > Getting hung up in these like they are real and not mythical is a VERY BIG > sidetrack off the path of Zen... > > Zen dispenses with all the myths which dance around various aspects of > reality and goes right to the core of reality itself... > > Edgar > > > On Sep 11, 2012, at 9:30 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > Bill, > > > > I fail to see much of a difference in these two focuses. My 'mental model' > > of Christianity includes both. Christ, being the 'perfect' sacrifice, died > > for our sins. He was the atonement the Heavenly Father required in order to > > forgive humans of their sins. The rising from the dead does symbolize > > everlasting life, but only after some the forgiveness of sins which might > > require additional attonement. Lutherans believe that, don't they? > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], William Rintala <brintala@> wrote: > > > > > > As I understand it Bill! there are at least 2 extremely different > > > interpretations of Christ and his cross. Catholacism saiys that Christ > > > suffered > > > and died on the cros for our sins. Their image of Christ has him nailed > > > to the > > > cross. I was raised as a Lutheran/ Protestant and they don't say that. > > > What we > > > were taught was that Christ died and was buried. He rose from the dead > > > 3 days > > > later and ascended into heaven as proof that all who believe in him will > > > have > > > everlasting life. Their image is of an empty cross and their call at > > > Easter is > > > "Christ has risen" to which the appropriate response is "He has risen > > > indeed". > > >  Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Find what makes your heart singâ¦and do it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Tue, September 11, 2012 5:14:51 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] He Who Is Without Sin... > > > > > >  > > > Merle, > > > > > > Play 'Drop the Biblical Quote and Then Run Away and Hide'. > > > > > > My question to you was "According to Christianity what was the 'purpose' > > > or > > > 'achievement' of Jesus' life (and death)?" > > > > > > I'll give you a hint. It has to do with 'sin'. > > > > > > Tag! You're it! ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > àplay what.?..i did not know it was a game...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > à> > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > Was that an answer to my question, or just a 'I don't want to play > > > > anymore'? > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâàhail mary!...merle > > > > > Ãâà> > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > Yes! A sinless human. > > > > > > > > > > I thought you knew something about the 'mental model' of > > > > > Christianity. > > > > > According to Christianity what was the 'purpose' or 'achievement' of > > > > > Jesus' > > > >life (and death)? That's the whole point of Christianity! > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàjesus bill then you are a bloody saint!...a > > > > > > sinless human > > > >being..lordy be... what an achievement!..merle > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > I never said I was the 'second Christ'. I said 'I was without sin'. > > > > > > I was > > > >YOU that suggested I was the 'second coming'... > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàhang on bill... you > > > > > > > said you were the second > > > >christ..did i mis judge you?..merle > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is only ONE 'Christ' - like there is only ONE 'Buddha' and > > > > > > > only ONE > > > >'Buddha Nature'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just FYI...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ > > > > > > > > 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > well said KG...is romney > > > >thinking he is the second christ?... merle > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ > > > > > > > > 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We all are "the second coming of Christ [not of Jesus - but of > > > >"Christ"].ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ > > > >'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Teaching point to > > > >realization. We all have/are the potential to realize this - for this to > > > >be > > > >realized - all have/are Buddha nature - to awaken to (call it what you > > > >like). > > > >That's the point of the teachings. Otherwise why come to teach the > > > >'first' time? > > > >Applies to equally Jesus' or Buddha's story. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole 'give a man a fish/teach a man to fish' schtick. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surely you have always realized this?! *L* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/10/2012 8:49 AM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ > > > > > > > > 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ > > > > > > > > >'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > christ we have found > > > >him..bill is the second coming!...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ > > > > > > > > >'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In one of your posts a long time ago and far, > > > > > > > > far away (that means I couldn't find it) you > > > > > > > > castigated me for stating that Christians and > > > > > > > > Muslims did bad things during the Crusades in > > > > > > > > the name of their religions. You used a quote > > > > > > > > of Jesus from the Bible and I think it was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Let him who is without sin among you be the > > > > > > > > first to throw a stone... - John 8:7 (English > > > > > > > > Standard Version) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I have already stated in an early post (an > > > > > > > > even longer time ago and further away) that I > > > > > > > > considered myself pretty knowledgeable about > > > > > > > > Christianity and very knowledgeable about the > > > > > > > > teaching of Jesus. I didn't respond to this > > > > > > > > part of your post at that time because I > > > > > > > > didn't consider this quote really relevant to > > > > > > > > our discussion, but I would like to respond > > > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I am without sin so would be eligible to throw > > > > > > > > stones if and when the situation calls for > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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