Bill, Yes, we agree about beauty.
And yes, it is ALWAYS a problem to speak accurately about Zen because language itself contain syntactical structures which assume a dualistic structure of reality that really can't accurately express Zen... But we try, and continually qualify and correct and approach the unspeakable the best we can with speech... But it's always just pointing to what's totally beyond words.... Edgar On Nov 25, 2012, at 9:22 PM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > You're right. My statement below, as most of my statements are, is > constructed using prose in a fairly strict subject/object-oriented language > (English). When I said "Buddha Nature experiences Reality just as it is." I > could have better said it the way you did below. > > But even that phraseology "Truth is the manifestation of Buddha Nature..." is > not quite right either. Buddha Nature doesn't manifest anything. Buddha > Nature, Truth, Reality, Experience are all IMO just different names for the > same thing. That's why I ended my post with the phrase which is as close as I > can come in English prose to describing Buddha Nature: 'Just This!'. > > But I think we also agree that Beauty is another thing entirely. Beauty is a > dualistic, relative human judgement. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > Yes, that's correct with one correction. > > > > Except Buddha Nature doesn't experience truth. Truth is the manifestation > > of Buddha Nature which is experience itself prior to the duality of > > experiencer and experienced.... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Nov 25, 2012, at 8:46 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Chris, Joe, Edgar and Godel, > > > > > > If the term 'Truth' refers to Reality, it is experienced by Buddha Nature > > > as-is without judgement. 'Beauty' is a judgement and of course relative. > > > It is a human invention, albeit a very pleasant one, but is a dualistic > > > concept and therefore illusory. > > > > > > So yes, we (our illusory self) can make an illusory judgement about Truth > > > (Reality) as being beautiful. We (our illusory self) can form attachments > > > to that concept. Buddha Nature however does not make judgments and has no > > > attachments. Buddha Nature does not experience beauty/ugly or good/bsd or > > > just/unjust or right/wrong. Buddha Nature experiences Reality just as it > > > is: Just THIS! > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > > > Took the words right out of my mouth. > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > ChrisAustinLane <chris@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Actually Godel established that truth is not a logical construct. > > > > > Only provability is. What that leaves truth as is unspecified by > > > > > Godel but any human maths worker can attest to the strange beauty of > > > > > truth. > > > > > > > > [blue snapper snipper] > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
