Mike,

I agree.  For me that was made apparent when I stopped creating delusions while 
working on the koan Mu.  I think you need to stop these delusions so you have a 
reference (Buddha Nature) so you can then realize they are just that - 
delusions.

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], "mike" <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
>
> Bill!, 
> 
> I agree with everything you wrote, but i would add that most Buddhist 
> teaching techniques ( including Zen) aim to not only stop creating delusions, 
> but to see that the delusions we create are due to a belief in a mind and a 
> self and ignorance of impermanence. I add this only for Stephen's interest, 
> not because ts news to you.
> 
> Mike
> 
> --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, and welcome to the group.
> > 
> > All Zen Buddhist teaching techniques are geared toward one thing, and that 
> > is halting the mind from creating delusions.  These include chanting, 
> > bowing, koan study, work detail and of course zazen (zen meditation).  
> > Zazen is the most often used and I think the most effective.
> > 
> > The best way to learn zazen is to go to a Zen Buddhist sangha and receive 
> > firsthand instruction.  If you can't do that there are many sites on the 
> > WWW that can give you step-by-step instructions on how to begin practicing 
> > zazen.
> > 
> > In the beginning I was taught to 'count my breathes'.  That's 1 on an 
> > exhale, then 2 on the inhale, 3 on the exhale, 4 on the inhale, etc..., 
> > until you get to 10 and then just start over.  If you loose count (which 
> > you will) or if you find yourself counting 15, 17 (which you will) just go 
> > back to 1 and start over.  Try to concentrate on the numbers and if you 
> > start thinking about anything else, like 'I wonder what's for dinner' or 
> > 'gee, I'm really sitting well today', just go back to 1 and start over.
> > 
> > Keep doing this until you can successfully count your breathes for 10 
> > minutes or so.  This ought to be enough for you for about at least a week 
> > of more until you can do that.
> > 
> > It doesn't really matter how long you sit at one time.  I'd suggest you 
> > start with 10 minutes and work up to 20 or so.  There's no need to go 
> > longer than that unless you really want to.  I usually sit 40 minutes but 
> > I've been doing this for almost 50 years so I'm used to it.
> > 
> > Keep us informed of how your sitting is going.  And of course good luck, 
> > although luck really has nothing to do with it.  I guess it would be better 
> > to say 'good determination'...
> > 
> > ...Bill!
> > 
> > --- In [email protected], "shepherdspie1962" <shepherdspie1962@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi:
> > > I've read several books on Zen. My favorite being "the teachings of zen 
> > > master huang po". In it he says that the cause of our delusion is our 
> > > analytical thinking, i.e., always judging things as good/bad, 
> > > right/wrong, etc. From his perspective the point of practice seems to be 
> > > to discipline our minds so that we can stop this kind of thinking. But I 
> > > wonder if there are different techniques that work sufficiently well or, 
> > > if some techniques might work for one person while another technique 
> > > works for someone else [for example: chanting versus silent meditation]. 
> > > Also when sitting I'm not sure if I should be trying not to think at all, 
> > > or if I should be repeating a mantra, or repeating a koan, or just 
> > > sitting and letting my mind do whatever it does...feedback appreciated. 
> > > thanks.
> > >
> >
>




------------------------------------

Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    [email protected] 
    [email protected]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [email protected]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Reply via email to