Chris, We are talking about living organisms which are computational systems WITH intent. The entire universe of forms is a computational system that continually computes its current state of existence. There is no evidence of intent in the non-living universe depending on how intent is defined...
Edgar On Apr 21, 2013, at 7:47 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > > Does deterministic computation imply intent? (sum 1 1) ... the intent is > what? > > I am sure that the moon can survive just fine without intent. > > Thanks, > --Chris > 301-270-6524 > On Apr 21, 2013 6:14 PM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Chris, > > There can be but not necessarily (computation could be completely random). > But only an intelligent intentional organism is able to survive... > > Edgar > > > > On Apr 21, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > >> >> >> Is there intention in computation? >> >> Thanks, >> --Chris >> 301-270-6524 >> On Apr 21, 2013 5:58 PM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Chris, >> >> Of course there is intention because whether it happens in the conscious or >> unconscious mind the actions are goal oriented no matter whether it's >> something simple like taking a drink or breathing to keep from dying.... >> >> The human body is a computational system that continually computes its >> actions on a logical basis. If this were not so it could not function and >> would soon die. >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On Apr 21, 2013, at 5:44 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> No, they still take place as they do, some conscious and some not, but with >>> no effort nor intention. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> --Chris >>> 301-270-6524 >>> On Apr 21, 2013 3:36 PM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Chris, >>> >>> That is true only with respect to the conscious mind. The only difference >>> is that all the rational computations are now taking place in the >>> UNconscious mind, but they are STILL taking place... >>> >>> Edgar >>> >>> >>> On Apr 21, 2013, at 3:13 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The opposite of monkey mind is not doing one thing but effortless activity >>>> - no one doing no thing. In cutting carrots each muscle, nerve, knife and >>>> plant goes on just as it is, no need to do anything. >>>> >>>> The 10,000 things take care of them selves with no effort and no boundary. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> --Chris >>>> 301-270-6524 >>>> On Apr 21, 2013 8:29 AM, "Merle Lester" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> bill...many thanks..yes single minded would you not say?..devoted to the >>>> task at hand...question: why is multi tasking and multi thinking regarded >>>> as "the enemy"? >>>> >>>> >>>> Merle, >>>> >>>> This is a very common occurrence. Zen literature refers to this as the >>>> 'monkey mind' because it seems to just go on and on without end and >>>> out-of-control. >>>> >>>> Zazen (and other zen teaching techniques) specifically target 'monkey >>>> mind' and try to calm it down until it eventually ceases all activity. >>>> Then you can have a direct experience of reality (Buddha Nature). >>>> >>>> When you do things like weeding or probably painting you may focus your >>>> whole being on just weeding or just painting. If you do this it is just >>>> like zazen in which you may start by concentrating on your breath. This >>>> single-mindedness concentration is what is meant by the zen saying, "When >>>> sit, just sit. When walking, just walk. Above all don't wobble." That >>>> means when your doing anything, just do that. Don't try to do many things >>>> at once, and especially don't do something while thinking about something >>>> else. Like painting while thinking about what you're going to fix for >>>> dinner. Or when fixing dinner not thinking about what you're going to >>>> paint after eating. When painting, just paint. When fixing dinner, just >>>> fix dinner. >>>> >>>> And yes, it's much easier said than done... >>>> >>>> ...Bill! >>>> >>>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >  >>>> >  bill..yes i understand..thank you..yes i agree with you..the intellect >>>> > chatter..that is constant with me and i find it so tiring to the point >>>> > where i get a headache..i go out and do weeding to freshen my brain.. i >>>> > am constantly asking questions mostly ones one cannot answer >>>> > anyway..round and round in circles i go... chewing it over and over... i >>>> > am a bit of a problem solver..that's what happens at night and i cannot >>>> > turn my mind off so i can't sleep..yes and then there is the emotions >>>> > rocking me around like a boat...i need to go watch a show on telly >>>> > now..back later..thank you bill!..i appreciate this post..merle >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >  >>>> > Merle, >>>> > >>>> > You are definitely on the right track. >>>> > >>>> > You can't just turn these things off. Daido talked about that. You just >>>> > let them come and go. The zen story about that (there's a zen story >>>> > about everything) is it is like when you are busy doing something and >>>> > someone comes to your door. You can answer the door, tell them you'r >>>> > busy right now and that they can come back later. What you don't do is >>>> > invite them in for tea and a lengthy chat. >>>> > >>>> > You can begin to quiet your mind down by doing what Daido said (or by >>>> > chanting or bowing or koan study, etc...), and when you do reach the >>>> > point to where all these thoughts have been turned off (I use the word >>>> > 'quiesce' or 'paused' or 'temporarily halted') THEN you will experience >>>> > Buddha Nature - which is the direct experience of reality WITHOUT all >>>> > the intellectual and emotional chatter going on. >>>> > >>>> > And basically that's it! Then it's just a matter of 'practicing' so you >>>> > can keep all that chatter at an absolute minimum - not cease it >>>> > permanently but only use it (your intellect/your rationality) when it's >>>> > appropriate. Your intellect (logic/rationality) is just one of the many >>>> > tools you have in your human tool bag and you shouldn't treat it like it >>>> > is the only one. Like I've reminded people on this forum of the old >>>> > saying which I apply to the intellect, "When all one has is a hammer, >>>> > everything looks like a nail". >>>> > >>>> > I call all this intellectual chatter 'illusion' and I call only the >>>> > direct experience of reality (Buddha Nature) 'real' - and that's where >>>> > the major difference of opinion (or at least terminology) between Edgar >>>> > and me - at least IMO. >>>> > >>>> > Enjoy...Bill! >>>> > >>>> > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >  bill! yes i know the scoreboard..sometimes it's hard to turn off >>>> > > the mind and experience non thought..and basically it's feelings that >>>> > > get me into a knot...i get so many different feelings flooding >>>> > > me..from joy to utter despair...all bubbling away like a volcano... >>>> > > this is what i find difficult to turn that switch off..however i note >>>> > > in my study..i just let them pass as they come and then they go like a >>>> > > log floating down a stream..am i on the right track?..merle >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >  >>>> > > Merle, >>>> > > >>>> > > I agree with what Mike says below and would reinforce that in the >>>> > > statement you quoted, 'you are your best teacher'... >>>> > > >>>> > > If 'you' means your self, your ego, your intellect, your dualistic, >>>> > > rational mind - then it is definitely not your best teacher (for zen). >>>> > > >>>> > > But if 'you' means experience, Buddha Nature, the absence of ego, >>>> > > itellect, dualism, etc... - then it is definitely your best teacher >>>> > > (for zen). >>>> > > >>>> > > ...Bill! >>>> > > >>>> > > --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Merle,<br/><br/>Depends what you mean by "you". If 'you' means your >>>> > > > ego, then absolutely not because the mind will colour things to suit >>>> > > > itself. If by 'you' you mean reality, then absolutely yes! And by >>>> > > > reality I mean the immediacy of direct experience. Buddha said, "Be >>>> > > > a lamp unto yourself". Only you will know if the tea is hot or cold >>>> > > > (remember that topic!). A teacher is only a guide and friend. >>>> > > > Ultimately only you can workout your own salvation. >>>> > > > <br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone >>>> > > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > >
