Chris, There can be but not necessarily (computation could be completely random). But only an intelligent intentional organism is able to survive...
Edgar On Apr 21, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > > Is there intention in computation? > > Thanks, > --Chris > 301-270-6524 > On Apr 21, 2013 5:58 PM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Chris, > > Of course there is intention because whether it happens in the conscious or > unconscious mind the actions are goal oriented no matter whether it's > something simple like taking a drink or breathing to keep from dying.... > > The human body is a computational system that continually computes its > actions on a logical basis. If this were not so it could not function and > would soon die. > > Edgar > > > > On Apr 21, 2013, at 5:44 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > >> >> >> No, they still take place as they do, some conscious and some not, but with >> no effort nor intention. >> >> Thanks, >> --Chris >> 301-270-6524 >> On Apr 21, 2013 3:36 PM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Chris, >> >> That is true only with respect to the conscious mind. The only difference is >> that all the rational computations are now taking place in the UNconscious >> mind, but they are STILL taking place... >> >> Edgar >> >> >> On Apr 21, 2013, at 3:13 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> The opposite of monkey mind is not doing one thing but effortless activity >>> - no one doing no thing. In cutting carrots each muscle, nerve, knife and >>> plant goes on just as it is, no need to do anything. >>> >>> The 10,000 things take care of them selves with no effort and no boundary. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> --Chris >>> 301-270-6524 >>> On Apr 21, 2013 8:29 AM, "Merle Lester" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> bill...many thanks..yes single minded would you not say?..devoted to the >>> task at hand...question: why is multi tasking and multi thinking regarded >>> as "the enemy"? >>> >>> >>> Merle, >>> >>> This is a very common occurrence. Zen literature refers to this as the >>> 'monkey mind' because it seems to just go on and on without end and >>> out-of-control. >>> >>> Zazen (and other zen teaching techniques) specifically target 'monkey mind' >>> and try to calm it down until it eventually ceases all activity. Then you >>> can have a direct experience of reality (Buddha Nature). >>> >>> When you do things like weeding or probably painting you may focus your >>> whole being on just weeding or just painting. If you do this it is just >>> like zazen in which you may start by concentrating on your breath. This >>> single-mindedness concentration is what is meant by the zen saying, "When >>> sit, just sit. When walking, just walk. Above all don't wobble." That means >>> when your doing anything, just do that. Don't try to do many things at >>> once, and especially don't do something while thinking about something >>> else. Like painting while thinking about what you're going to fix for >>> dinner. Or when fixing dinner not thinking about what you're going to paint >>> after eating. When painting, just paint. When fixing dinner, just fix >>> dinner. >>> >>> And yes, it's much easier said than done... >>> >>> ...Bill! >>> >>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >  >>> >  bill..yes i understand..thank you..yes i agree with you..the intellect >>> > chatter..that is constant with me and i find it so tiring to the point >>> > where i get a headache..i go out and do weeding to freshen my brain.. i >>> > am constantly asking questions mostly ones one cannot answer >>> > anyway..round and round in circles i go... chewing it over and over... i >>> > am a bit of a problem solver..that's what happens at night and i cannot >>> > turn my mind off so i can't sleep..yes and then there is the emotions >>> > rocking me around like a boat...i need to go watch a show on telly >>> > now..back later..thank you bill!..i appreciate this post..merle >>> > >>> > >>> >  >>> > Merle, >>> > >>> > You are definitely on the right track. >>> > >>> > You can't just turn these things off. Daido talked about that. You just >>> > let them come and go. The zen story about that (there's a zen story about >>> > everything) is it is like when you are busy doing something and someone >>> > comes to your door. You can answer the door, tell them you'r busy right >>> > now and that they can come back later. What you don't do is invite them >>> > in for tea and a lengthy chat. >>> > >>> > You can begin to quiet your mind down by doing what Daido said (or by >>> > chanting or bowing or koan study, etc...), and when you do reach the >>> > point to where all these thoughts have been turned off (I use the word >>> > 'quiesce' or 'paused' or 'temporarily halted') THEN you will experience >>> > Buddha Nature - which is the direct experience of reality WITHOUT all the >>> > intellectual and emotional chatter going on. >>> > >>> > And basically that's it! Then it's just a matter of 'practicing' so you >>> > can keep all that chatter at an absolute minimum - not cease it >>> > permanently but only use it (your intellect/your rationality) when it's >>> > appropriate. Your intellect (logic/rationality) is just one of the many >>> > tools you have in your human tool bag and you shouldn't treat it like it >>> > is the only one. Like I've reminded people on this forum of the old >>> > saying which I apply to the intellect, "When all one has is a hammer, >>> > everything looks like a nail". >>> > >>> > I call all this intellectual chatter 'illusion' and I call only the >>> > direct experience of reality (Buddha Nature) 'real' - and that's where >>> > the major difference of opinion (or at least terminology) between Edgar >>> > and me - at least IMO. >>> > >>> > Enjoy...Bill! >>> > >>> > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >  bill! yes i know the scoreboard..sometimes it's hard to turn off >>> > > the mind and experience non thought..and basically it's feelings that >>> > > get me into a knot...i get so many different feelings flooding me..from >>> > > joy to utter despair...all bubbling away like a volcano... this is what >>> > > i find difficult to turn that switch off..however i note in my study..i >>> > > just let them pass as they come and then they go like a log floating >>> > > down a stream..am i on the right track?..merle >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >  >>> > > Merle, >>> > > >>> > > I agree with what Mike says below and would reinforce that in the >>> > > statement you quoted, 'you are your best teacher'... >>> > > >>> > > If 'you' means your self, your ego, your intellect, your dualistic, >>> > > rational mind - then it is definitely not your best teacher (for zen). >>> > > >>> > > But if 'you' means experience, Buddha Nature, the absence of ego, >>> > > itellect, dualism, etc... - then it is definitely your best teacher >>> > > (for zen). >>> > > >>> > > ...Bill! >>> > > >>> > > --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > Merle,<br/><br/>Depends what you mean by "you". If 'you' means your >>> > > > ego, then absolutely not because the mind will colour things to suit >>> > > > itself. If by 'you' you mean reality, then absolutely yes! And by >>> > > > reality I mean the immediacy of direct experience. Buddha said, "Be a >>> > > > lamp unto yourself". Only you will know if the tea is hot or cold >>> > > > (remember that topic!). A teacher is only a guide and friend. >>> > > > Ultimately only you can workout your own salvation. >>> > > > <br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > >
