Does deterministic computation imply intent? (sum 1 1) ... the intent is what?
I am sure that the moon can survive just fine without intent. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Apr 21, 2013 6:14 PM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Chris, > > There can be but not necessarily (computation could be completely random). > But only an intelligent intentional organism is able to survive... > > Edgar > > > > On Apr 21, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > > > > Is there intention in computation? > > Thanks, > --Chris > 301-270-6524 > On Apr 21, 2013 5:58 PM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> Chris, >> >> Of course there is intention because whether it happens in the conscious >> or unconscious mind the actions are goal oriented no matter whether it's >> something simple like taking a drink or breathing to keep from dying.... >> >> The human body is a computational system that continually computes its >> actions on a logical basis. If this were not so it could not function and >> would soon die. >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On Apr 21, 2013, at 5:44 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: >> >> >> >> No, they still take place as they do, some conscious and some not, but >> with no effort nor intention. >> >> Thanks, >> --Chris >> 301-270-6524 >> On Apr 21, 2013 3:36 PM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Chris, >>> >>> That is true only with respect to the conscious mind. The only >>> difference is that all the rational computations are now taking place in >>> the UNconscious mind, but they are STILL taking place... >>> >>> Edgar >>> >>> >>> On Apr 21, 2013, at 3:13 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> The opposite of monkey mind is not doing one thing but effortless >>> activity - no one doing no thing. In cutting carrots each muscle, nerve, >>> knife and plant goes on just as it is, no need to do anything. >>> >>> The 10,000 things take care of them selves with no effort and no >>> boundary. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> --Chris >>> 301-270-6524 >>> On Apr 21, 2013 8:29 AM, "Merle Lester" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> bill...many thanks..yes single minded would you not say?..devoted to >>>> the task at hand...question: why is multi tasking and multi thinking >>>> regarded as "the enemy"? >>>> >>>> >>>> Merle, >>>> >>>> This is a very common occurrence. Zen literature refers to this as the >>>> 'monkey mind' because it seems to just go on and on without end and >>>> out-of-control. >>>> >>>> Zazen (and other zen teaching techniques) specifically target 'monkey >>>> mind' and try to calm it down until it eventually ceases all activity. Then >>>> you can have a direct experience of reality (Buddha Nature). >>>> >>>> When you do things like weeding or probably painting you may focus your >>>> whole being on just weeding or just painting. If you do this it is just >>>> like zazen in which you may start by concentrating on your breath. This >>>> single-mindedness concentration is what is meant by the zen saying, "When >>>> sit, just sit. When walking, just walk. Above all don't wobble." That means >>>> when your doing anything, just do that. Don't try to do many things at >>>> once, and especially don't do something while thinking about something >>>> else. Like painting while thinking about what you're going to fix for >>>> dinner. Or when fixing dinner not thinking about what you're going to paint >>>> after eating. When painting, just paint. When fixing dinner, just fix >>>> dinner. >>>> >>>> And yes, it's much easier said than done... >>>> >>>> ...Bill! >>>> >>>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >  >>>> >  bill..yes i understand..thank you..yes i agree with you..the >>>> intellect chatter..that is constant with me and i find it so tiring to the >>>> point where i get a headache..i go out and do weeding to freshen my brain.. >>>> i am constantly asking questions mostly ones one cannot answer >>>> anyway..round and round in circles i go... chewing it over and over... i am >>>> a bit of a problem solver..that's what happens at night and i cannot turn >>>> my mind off so i can't sleep..yes and then there is the emotions rocking me >>>> around like a boat...i need to go watch a show on telly now..back >>>> later..thank you bill!..i appreciate this post..merle >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >  >>>> > Merle, >>>> > >>>> > You are definitely on the right track. >>>> > >>>> > You can't just turn these things off. Daido talked about that. You >>>> just let them come and go. The zen story about that (there's a zen story >>>> about everything) is it is like when you are busy doing something and >>>> someone comes to your door. You can answer the door, tell them you'r busy >>>> right now and that they can come back later. What you don't do is invite >>>> them in for tea and a lengthy chat. >>>> > >>>> > You can begin to quiet your mind down by doing what Daido said (or by >>>> chanting or bowing or koan study, etc...), and when you do reach the point >>>> to where all these thoughts have been turned off (I use the word 'quiesce' >>>> or 'paused' or 'temporarily halted') THEN you will experience Buddha Nature >>>> - which is the direct experience of reality WITHOUT all the intellectual >>>> and emotional chatter going on. >>>> > >>>> > And basically that's it! Then it's just a matter of 'practicing' so >>>> you can keep all that chatter at an absolute minimum - not cease it >>>> permanently but only use it (your intellect/your rationality) when it's >>>> appropriate. Your intellect (logic/rationality) is just one of the many >>>> tools you have in your human tool bag and you shouldn't treat it like it is >>>> the only one. Like I've reminded people on this forum of the old saying >>>> which I apply to the intellect, "When all one has is a hammer, everything >>>> looks like a nail". >>>> > >>>> > I call all this intellectual chatter 'illusion' and I call only the >>>> direct experience of reality (Buddha Nature) 'real' - and that's where the >>>> major difference of opinion (or at least terminology) between Edgar and me >>>> - at least IMO. >>>> > >>>> > Enjoy...Bill! >>>> > >>>> > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >  bill! yes i know the scoreboard..sometimes it's hard to turn >>>> off the mind and experience non thought..and basically it's feelings that >>>> get me into a knot...i get so many different feelings flooding me..from joy >>>> to utter despair...all bubbling away like a volcano... this is what i find >>>> difficult to turn that switch off..however i note in my study..i just let >>>> them pass as they come and then they go like a log floating down a >>>> stream..am i on the right track?..merle >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >  >>>> > > Merle, >>>> > > >>>> > > I agree with what Mike says below and would reinforce that in the >>>> statement you quoted, 'you are your best teacher'... >>>> > > >>>> > > If 'you' means your self, your ego, your intellect, your dualistic, >>>> rational mind - then it is definitely not your best teacher (for zen). >>>> > > >>>> > > But if 'you' means experience, Buddha Nature, the absence of ego, >>>> itellect, dualism, etc... - then it is definitely your best teacher (for >>>> zen). >>>> > > >>>> > > ...Bill! >>>> > > >>>> > > --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Merle,<br/><br/>Depends what you mean by "you". If 'you' means >>>> your ego, then absolutely not because the mind will colour things to suit >>>> itself. If by 'you' you mean reality, then absolutely yes! And by reality I >>>> mean the immediacy of direct experience. Buddha said, "Be a lamp unto >>>> yourself". Only you will know if the tea is hot or cold (remember that >>>> topic!). A teacher is only a guide and friend. Ultimately only you can >>>> workout your own salvation. <br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! >>>> Mail for iPhone >>>> > > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > >
