Merle, I say defintely YES! A mentally deficient person can experience Buddha Nature - and I THINK (but cannot say for sure) that they can experience Buddha Nature more easily than a normal person.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > > Â can an intellectually disabled mind experience the buddha nature if we must > begin with reason as our first requirement edgar?... > > ho hum.. > > merle > > > > Â > Edgar, > > I think we're getting very close here to the core of our disagreements, and I > think this has to do with your continual use of the word 'Zen' whereas I use > 'experience Buddha Nature' > > Below you wrote: > > [Edgar] "First you use reason to understand the world of forms. Only then can > you experience the true nature of the world of forms. Â That's Zen..." > > My question to you was: > > [Bill!] Â "What then of all the sentient beings that are not endowed with the > ability to reason?" > > Now here's what maybe the difference-breaker...(I'm getting excited...) > > Are you saying that only beings that can employ reason can engage in > (practice, partake of) Zen? > > This is NOT a trick question. Â There will be no 'gotcha's' no matter what > you answer...I promise... > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > What about them? > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On May 2, 2013, at 2:26 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > What then of all the sentient beings that are not endowed with the > > > ability to reason? > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen edgarowen@ wrote: > > > > > > > > In the history of humanity first things had to be figured out using > > > > reason. Only after learning them can they be done via second nature. > > > > > > > > This is another proof that first we must understand reality. Only then > > > > can it be directly experienced as it actually is. > > > > > > > > Of course we all directly experience reality anyway all the time. But > > > > without understanding what we are experiencing is the magician's tricks > > > > reality continually plays on us as illusion appears to be reality that > > > > we experience as reality. We are fooled into thinking illusion is > > > > reality if we have no understanding of the nature of forms. > > > > > > > > Not using reason to figure out reality is like trying to use water to > > > > start a fire. Never hatchy! > > > > > > > > First you use reason to figure out how to start a fire. Then you start > > > > a fire.... > > > > > > > > First you use reason to understand the world of forms. Only then can > > > > you experience the true nature of the world of forms. > > > > > > > > That's Zen... > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 1, 2013, at 3:25 PM, Email wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My comment is addressed towards Joe's statement that " > > > > > > > > > > Our success as a species does not depend on models. It depends > > > > > instead on real life. > > > > > > > > > > Much of it is genuine engagement with Nature, in Nature, and luck and > > > > > spontaneity, and takes no time to "figure out". > > > > > > > > > > The figure-outers are in the dust, and tend not to pass on their > > > > > genes. > > > > > > > > > > They'll argue that their way is the superior one, however. Of course > > > > > they'll argue! There's little left for them. > > > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 1, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Edgar Owen edgarowen@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Gosh, this suggests that reason helps us survive because it > > > > >> accurately models reality! > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> What will Bill say? > > > > >> :-) > > > > >> > > > > >> Edgar > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On May 1, 2013, at 3:06 PM, Email wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Figured out how to kill the Mammoth without being killed. Figured > > > > >>> out what was safe to eat without being poisoned. Figured out how to > > > > >>> survive. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Sent from my iPhone > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On May 1, 2013, at 1:45 PM, "Joe" desert_woodworker@ wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Hi, William, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> OK, I'll bite. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Figured what out? > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> --Joe > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > Email wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > I disagree. It was the first guy who attacked the Mammoth with a > > > > >>>> > rock who failed to pass on his genes. The fellows who figured it > > > > >>>> > out are our forefathers > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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