Mike, Your understanding of my posts is incorrect. I do not "disparage" authentic teachers. I say that teachers can be helpful but are not necessary.
Like Joe you are arguing with the demons in your head, not what I actually said because you don't understand what I actually said and continue to read your own meaning into it.... That indicates a delusional irrational mind. Work on your rational understanding. Right thought is also a necessary part of realization because without Right Thought you continually live in a world of delusion as evidence by your failure to understand what I've actually said. Until that delusion is clarified with right thought there can be no realization.... Edgar On May 20, 2013, at 6:57 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: > Mike, > > > At least you remember some of my remarks. Now if you could only understand > them too! > :-) > > Edgar > > > > On May 20, 2013, at 3:38 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> Edgar, >> >> It's only a pleasure for you while you interpret what is being said as >> supporting your theories. As soon as there is a contradiction JM will be >> just another "comic book" Zen fantasist. Who can forget your previous >> disparaging remarks regarding teachers and transmission? - things that are >> obviously at the heart of JM's Ch'an. >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; >> To: <[email protected]>; >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What is Enlightenment? >> Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 4:15:20 PM >> >> >> JM, >> >> >> Exactly. There is only one reality, and that includes ALL of its >> manifestations in the various interpretations of various humans. But there >> is only one universal life force (what I call ontological energy and some >> call Tao or Buddha Nature), and there is only one true wisdom and that is >> its realization... >> >> It's a pleasure to have a teacher with true understanding back on the group! >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On May 19, 2013, at 9:59 AM, 覺妙精明 （JMJM） wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi Bill, >>> >>> You always insisted that there are differences in zen, Zen, Chan. I can >>> accept all of that, because all of that is inclusive in Chan. They are all >>> description of the same one fundamental thing, the universal life force >>> and wisdom and all of its manifestations. >>> >>> JM >>> >>> >>> On 5/19/2013 6:52 AM, Bill! wrote: >>>> >>>> JMJM and Edgar, >>>> >>>> I don't know about Chan, but zen is a human practice that assists in >>>> balancing the interplay between Human Nature and Buddha Nature. I went on >>>> to describe it in more detail in a recent post. >>>> >>>> It is not everything. It is a practice. There are human activities that >>>> are not part of that practice. >>>> >>>> ...Bill! >>>> >>>> --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > JMJM, >>>> > >>>> > That's my understanding too. That's how I use the word though I usually >>>> > refer to it as Zen. >>>> > >>>> > It's not something confined to any sect, temple or teacher though it may >>>> > be recognized and taught therein. >>>> > >>>> > Chan or Zen is just a name for the fundamental reality of the world. But >>>> > the name is not the reality, it just references the reality... >>>> > >>>> > Edgar >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On May 19, 2013, at 9:08 AM, 覺妙精明 （JMJM） wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > Hi Mike, >>>> > > >>>> > > Chan is the absolute and most fundamental dharma. Chan is the essence >>>> > > of all and everything. >>>> > > Chan can be expressed with any kind of word or no word at all. >>>> > > >>>> > > JM >>>> > > >>>> > > On 5/19/2013 1:00 AM, uerusuboyo@... wrote: >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Would it be fair to say that Cha'n still retains more of its original >>>> > >> Indian Mahayana flavour than Japanese Zen? At least in it's outward >>>> > >> expression, if not in its stories. I can almost smell the incense >>>> > >> from here! ( meant respectfully). >>>> > >> >>>> > >> With cheeks together, on a chair, >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Mike >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>>> > >> >>>> > >> From: Joe <desert_woodworker@...>; >>>> > >> To: <[email protected]>; >>>> > >> Subject: [Zen] Re: What is Enlightenment? >>>> > >> Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 5:26:17 AM >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> JMJM, >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Well done. Well expressed. Be well. Please take good care. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Hands together, and with bow, >>>> > >> >>>> > >> --Joe >>>> > >> >>>> > >> > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > Everything we truly seek belongs to heart, i.e. peace, happiness, >>>> > >> > etc. >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > Enhance the sensitivity of our heart. Accept all as is. Surpass the >>>> > >> > realm of desire, form and formlessness. Sync with the universal >>>> > >> > wisdom through our heart is the key to enlightenment. >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > with palms together, >>>> > >> > jm >>>> > >> >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >
