Edgar,

I know this post is to Mike but it touches on a point I'd like to bring up also.

I don't think you misunderstand what I post and I know you don't agree with 
many of the things I post, but you often times seem to completely misread or at 
least misinterpret what I do post. In fact sometimes you seem to attribute 
things to me that I did not say.  And very often you draw conclusions based on 
what you think I say that are not at all what I believe.

Strange, so I just thought I'd mention it.

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>
> Mike,
> 
> Your understanding of my posts is incorrect. I do not "disparage" authentic 
> teachers. I say that teachers can be helpful but are not necessary.
> 
> Like Joe you are arguing with the demons in your head, not what I actually 
> said because you don't understand what I actually said and continue to read 
> your own meaning into it....
> 
> That indicates a delusional irrational mind. 
> 
> Work on your rational understanding. Right thought is also a necessary part 
> of realization because without Right Thought you continually live in a world 
> of delusion as evidence by your failure to understand what I've actually 
> said. Until that delusion is clarified with right thought there can be no 
> realization....
> 
> Edgar
> 
>  
> On May 20, 2013, at 6:57 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
> 
> > Mike,
> > 
> > 
> > At least you remember some of my remarks. Now if you could only understand 
> > them too!
> > :-)
> > 
> > Edgar
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On May 20, 2013, at 3:38 AM, uerusuboyo@... wrote:
> > 
> >>  
> >> Edgar,
> >> 
> >> It's only a pleasure for you while you interpret what is being said as 
> >> supporting your theories. As soon as there is a contradiction JM will be 
> >> just another "comic book" Zen fantasist. Who can forget your previous 
> >> disparaging remarks regarding teachers and transmission? - things that are 
> >> obviously at the heart of JM's Ch'an.
> >> 
> >> Mike
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
> >> 
> >> From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...>; 
> >> To: <[email protected]>; 
> >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What is Enlightenment? 
> >> Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 4:15:20 PM 
> >> 
> >>  
> >> JM,
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Exactly. There is only one reality, and that includes ALL of its 
> >> manifestations in the various interpretations of various humans. But there 
> >> is only one universal life force (what I call ontological energy and some 
> >> call Tao or Buddha Nature), and there is only one true wisdom and that is 
> >> its realization...
> >> 
> >> It's a pleasure to have a teacher with true understanding back on the 
> >> group!
> >> 
> >> Edgar
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On May 19, 2013, at 9:59 AM, 覺妙精明 (JMJM) wrote:
> >> 
> >>>  
> >>> Hi Bill,
> >>> 
> >>> You always insisted that there are differences in zen, Zen, Chan.  I can 
> >>> accept all of that, because all of that is inclusive in Chan.  They are 
> >>> all description of the same one fundamental thing, the     universal life 
> >>> force and wisdom and all of its manifestations.
> >>> 
> >>> JM
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On 5/19/2013 6:52 AM, Bill! wrote:
> >>>>  
> >>>> JMJM and Edgar,
> >>>> 
> >>>> I don't know about Chan, but zen is a human practice that assists in 
> >>>> balancing the interplay between Human Nature and Buddha Nature. I went 
> >>>> on to describe it in more detail in a recent post.
> >>>> 
> >>>> It is not everything. It is a practice. There are human activities that 
> >>>> are not part of that practice.
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...Bill!
> >>>> 
> >>>> --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > JMJM,
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > That's my understanding too. That's how I use the word though I 
> >>>> > usually refer to it as Zen.
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > It's not something confined to any sect, temple or teacher though it 
> >>>> > may be recognized and taught therein. 
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > Chan or Zen is just a name for the fundamental reality of the world. 
> >>>> > But the name is not the reality, it just references the reality...
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > Edgar
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > On May 19, 2013, at 9:08 AM, 覺妙精明 
> >>>> > (JMJM) wrote:
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > > Hi Mike,
> >>>> > > 
> >>>> > > Chan is the absolute and most fundamental dharma. Chan is the 
> >>>> > > essence of all and everything.
> >>>> > > Chan can be expressed with any kind of word or no word at all.
> >>>> > > 
> >>>> > > JM
> >>>> > > 
> >>>> > > On 5/19/2013 1:00 AM, uerusuboyo@ wrote:
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> Would it be fair to say that Cha'n still retains more of its 
> >>>> > >> original Indian Mahayana flavour than Japanese Zen? At least in 
> >>>> > >> it's outward expression, if not in its stories. I can almost smell 
> >>>> > >> the incense from here! ( meant respectfully).
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> With cheeks together, on a chair,
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> Mike
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> From: Joe <desert_woodworker@>; 
> >>>> > >> To: <[email protected]>; 
> >>>> > >> Subject: [Zen] Re: What is Enlightenment? 
> >>>> > >> Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 5:26:17 AM 
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> JMJM,
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> Well done. Well expressed. Be well. Please take good care.
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> Hands together, and with bow,
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> --Joe
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > >> > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> >>>> > >> >
> >>>> > >> > Everything we truly seek belongs to heart, i.e. peace, happiness, 
> >>>> > >> > etc.
> >>>> > >> > 
> >>>> > >> > Enhance the sensitivity of our heart. Accept all as is. Surpass 
> >>>> > >> > the realm of desire, form and formlessness. Sync with the 
> >>>> > >> > universal wisdom through our heart is the key to enlightenment.
> >>>> > >> > 
> >>>> > >> > with palms together,
> >>>> > >> > jm
> >>>> > >> 
> >>>> > > 
> >>>> > > 
> >>>> > >
> >>>> >
> >>>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> >
>




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