Edgar. I have already read them.
When I wrote the post below I did make one mistake. JMJM's description: > > Your description of Chan includes: > > - "Not cast in words. Transmit beyond teaching." > > - does not involve with any concept or logic > > - pure transmission, meaning synchronization > > - The key is not trying to understand it, but to feel and sense it > > - Begins by completely drop our logic. ...is NOT what I've been saying about zen, it's what I've been saying about Buddha Nature. Mea culpa. Zen practice is a little different kettle of fish... ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > NO, read JM and my subsequent posts.. > > Edgar > > > On May 19, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > JMJM, > > > > I read your post below with amazement. > > > > Your description of Chan includes: > > - "Not cast in words. Transmit beyond teaching." > > - does not involve with any concept or logic > > - pure transmission, meaning synchronization > > - The key is not trying to understand it, but to feel and sense it > > - Begins by completely drop our logic. > > > > Isn't that EXACTLY what I've been saying about zen post after post after > > post? > > > > And isn't that EXACTLY what Edgar has been DENYING post after post after > > post? > > > > WTF? > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Juemiao Jingming <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > > > As I said, your definition of zen, is also part of Chan. Not different, > > > just incomplete. > > > > > > If we go back to the origin, Chan is "Not cast in words. Transmit beyond > > > teaching." > > > > > > In other words, Chan does not involve with any concept or logic. Chan is > > > pure transmission, meaning synchronization. > > > > > > All practices are part of Chan. Just different routes, some more direct. > > > > > > The key is not trying to understand it, but to feel and sense it. Begins > > > by completely drop our logic. > > > > > > For your reference. > > > Jm > > > On May 19, 2013 7:06 AM, "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > JMJM, > > > > > > > > I've never insisted that zen and Chan are different. I've only pointed > > > > out > > > > that some of your descriptions of Chan are different from what I know as > > > > zen. > > > > > > > > I don't think there are any fundamental difference, but then again I > > > > don't > > > > know for sure. Like I said below zen is not everything. It is a > > > > practice. > > > > There are human activities that are not part of that practice. > > > > > > > > If that's different for Chan then they are different. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > > > ï¼ËJMJMï¼Ⱐ<chan.jmjm@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > > > > > > > You always insisted that there are differences in zen, Zen, Chan. I > > > > > can > > > > > accept all of that, because all of that is inclusive in Chan. They are > > > > > all description of the same one fundamental thing, the universal life > > > > > force and wisdom and all of its manifestations. > > > > > > > > > > JM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/19/2013 6:52 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > JMJM and Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about Chan, but zen is a human practice that assists in > > > > > > balancing the interplay between Human Nature and Buddha Nature. I > > > > > > went > > > > > > on to describe it in more detail in a recent post. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not everything. It is a practice. There are human activities > > > > > > that are not part of that practice. > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JMJM, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's my understanding too. That's how I use the word though I > > > > > > usually refer to it as Zen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not something confined to any sect, temple or teacher though > > > > > > > it > > > > > > may be recognized and taught therein. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chan or Zen is just a name for the fundamental reality of the > > > > > > > world. > > > > > > But the name is not the reality, it just references the reality... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 2013, at 9:08 AM, > > > > > > > èæúÃ¥æââ¢Ã§Ã²Ã¾Ã¦ÃÅ"à ½ > > > > ïüÃâ JMJMïüââ¬Â° wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chan is the absolute and most fundamental dharma. Chan is the > > > > > > essence of all and everything. > > > > > > > > Chan can be expressed with any kind of word or no word at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/19/2013 1:00 AM, uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Would it be fair to say that Cha'n still retains more of its > > > > > > original Indian Mahayana flavour than Japanese Zen? At least in it's > > > > > > outward expression, if not in its stories. I can almost smell the > > > > > > incense from here! ( meant respectfully). > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> With cheeks together, on a chair, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Mike > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> From: Joe <desert_woodworker@>; > > > > > > > >> To: <[email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>>; > > > > > > > >> Subject: [Zen] Re: What is Enlightenment? > > > > > > > >> Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 5:26:17 AM > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> JMJM, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Well done. Well expressed. Be well. Please take good care. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Hands together, and with bow, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> --Joe > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Everything we truly seek belongs to heart, i.e. peace, > > > > happiness, > > > > > > > >> > etc. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Enhance the sensitivity of our heart. Accept all as is. > > > > > > > >> > Surpass > > > > > > the realm of desire, form and formlessness. Sync with the universal > > > > > > wisdom through our heart is the key to enlightenment. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > with palms together, > > > > > > > >> > jm > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
