Chris, Yes, if you manage to put your pants on in the morning you ARE using your rational mind.
Bill obviously walks around without pants all day hoping to preserve his Zen... Edgar On May 25, 2013, at 11:14 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > > I say the thoughts have actual reality and a limited illusory implicit world > view they carry with them. > > I don't find much reason to distinguish the neuronal firings of hearing a > frog jumping into the water and the neuronal firings of remembering a frog > jumping into water. But to take a thought seriously, haha, that way leads to > madness. > > The fact of maths being so effective in science is still in my mind part of > the mystery, and some little model of computation cribbed from recent popular > science fails to address it. > > I also am pretty sure one may put pants on without having an effective > reasonable model of computation externalized. One may just put the pants on. > > Thanks, > --Chris > 301-270-6524 > On May 25, 2013 7:10 AM, "Bill!" <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: > Edgar, > > People create illusions so why can't people decide on whether they're real or > not? > > I say they're not. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > People don't decide whether illusions are real or not. Reality does! Get > > that through your solipsistic head! > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > As long as you agree dualism is an illusion you can call it 'reality' if > > > you wish. I don't agree, but we can let others decide for themselves if > > > illusions are real or not. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Total agreement as stated. > > > > > > > > Just incorporate what I said yesterday that these forms exist in > > > > reality instead of in your nutty head and you'll have the whole > > > > meaning.. > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 3:41 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Siska, > > > > > > > > > > As you'll soon find out Edgar and I have almost the polar opposite > > > > > opinion on just about everything. In fact he'll probably disagree > > > > > with this statement ;>) and will certainly jump all over the rest of > > > > > this post. > > > > > > > > > > Rumi's poem/metaphor was: > > > > > > > > > > I looked for my self, > > > > > But my self was gone. > > > > > The boundaries of my being > > > > > Had disappeared in the sea. > > > > > Waves broke. Awareness rose again. > > > > > And a voice returned me to myself. > > > > > It always happens like this. > > > > > Sea turns on itself and foams, > > > > > And with every foaming bit another body. > > > > > Another being takes form. > > > > > And when the sea sends word, > > > > > Each foaming body melts back to ocean-breath. > > > > > - Rumi > > > > > > > > > > I can just imagine Rumi standing on the beach watching the waves > > > > > form, come rhythmically in, crash upon the beach and then spend > > > > > themselves by slipping back into the sea - losing himself in Buddha > > > > > Nature and later composing this poem. My interpretation of it is: > > > > > > > > > > I looked for my self, > > > > > But my self was gone. > > > > > The boundaries of my being > > > > > Had disappeared in the sea. > > > > > > > > > > Rumi is describing the holistic experience of Buddha Nature. The > > > > > illusion of dualism has vanished and his illusion of 'self' as > > > > > something independent and apart from everything else has vanished > > > > > with it. It has vanished into sea which is a metaphor for emptiness. > > > > > > > > > > Waves broke. Awareness rose again. > > > > > And a voice returned me to myself. > > > > > It always happens like this. > > > > > > > > > > Dualism returns. His holistic experience of Buddha Nature has been > > > > > interrupted and his illusion of self has returned. This alternation > > > > > between holism and dualism, between emptiness and self happens > > > > > regularly, much like the waves surging rhythmically upon the beach. > > > > > > > > > > Sea turns on itself and foams, > > > > > And with every foaming bit another body. > > > > > Another being takes form. > > > > > > > > > > Now that he is abiding in dualism all other illusions, perceptions, > > > > > thoughts, etc..., of all other (10,000) things appear. > > > > > > > > > > And when the sea sends word, > > > > > Each foaming body melts back to ocean-breath. > > > > > > > > > > But when he returns again to Buddha Nature all these illusions melt > > > > > back into emptiness. > > > > > > > > > > That's my reading of this anyway. It will be interesting to see what > > > > > Edgar comes up with although I think I could almost write it for > > > > > him... > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > I followed until: "Waves broke". > > > > > > > > > > > > The rest is a bit confusing. It's as if the 'self' is back. > > > > > > > > > > > > Siska > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@ > > > > > > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:04:29 > > > > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: [Zen] Nice Quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >
