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As a non-developer observer, I'm +1 with Jim's discussion. Martin, you're right that developer influx should be the key goal, and that (a) simpler entry points like Grok and (b) killer apps are the way to get to that goal.

and I think things like grok are the natural progression from "drink our koolaid" to "use our koolaid mix and make your own".

I don't think the killer app, though, should be the responsibility of the Zope project. More bluntly, I don't think it's fair to tell the Zope 3 core team to do it: they are more interested in machinery, they don't need to do it for their jobs, and are already giving us plenty. Let's decrease the responsibilities of the core.

(Note: 3 years ago I lobbied heavily for the Zope 3 to keep the TTW dream alive, but my thinking was flawed.)

everything has it place, scope creep on perfectly good ideas causes the pain.

for example: the acceptance of the ZODB *would* benefit greatly from some type of database browser; such an application would not need to be a full blown application server.


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