When I play a 13c. I cannot access the low basses with any reliability without playing with my fingers practically parallel to the higher register strings. I can play closer to the bridge, or not for tone difference, but rotating my hand to more of a thumb open is not an option. I do use rest strokes with the thumb in the basses for accuracy of placement of the following note. r
-----Original Message----- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of chriswi...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 2:28 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; dwinh...@comcast.net; Ron Andrico Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke Ron, Good points. I'm working on exactly this point. The main issue with true thumb-out is getting a decent and - far more importantly - _consistent_ sound out of the treble strings. There clearly was a marked aural difference between the too positions that the baroquenists admired. How else to explain the Stammbuch of Stobaeus when he contrasts the "pure, sharp, bright" tone of thumb-out versus the "rotten and muffled" sound of old thumb-under. I think most modern baroque lutenists attempt to re-create the thumb-under sound. They therefore have an anachronistic conception of tone. I can't say that I agree with the "rotten and muffled" part, but for me, there is nothing saying that a brighter sound can't be expressive. In my experiments, I've found that it is quite possible to have a wide range of timbral, tonal and dynamic shadings. The lute just responds differently with the fingers in this position. Still a work in progress. The secondary issue is that the true baroque lute technique is very, very close to modern classical guitar technique. I think this strikes too close to home for many lutenists for whom thumb-under is part of the (modern) "identity" of what it means to be a "real" lute player, as distinct from wannabe classical guitarists who thrash around on a pear-shaped instrument at ren. fests, etc. Chris --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote: > From: Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke > To: chriswi...@yahoo.com, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, dwinh...@comcast.net > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 11:09 AM > Chris & All: > The rest stroke for the thumb seems a logical means to both produce > a > strong bass and teach the thumb to keep track of diapasons, > although > there is no specific referral to this technique by name in any > written > historical source I've seen. The > term 'rest stroke' seems to be a > classical guitar convention useful in adapting to lute technique. > The > thing I find extremely puzzling in the 'awful lot of paintings' you > mention is that, for late 16th and almost all 17th century > examples, > there is a nearly uniform depiction of a thumb-out technique, which > is > also described clearly in written > sources. With one exception, nearly > all our notable baroque lutenists of today use a thumb-under > technique. This even applies to a > lutenist I've seen in a recent video > who is described as never having played renaissance lute. What > gives? > Why don't baroque lutenists today use what is an unquestionably > obvious > historical technique? I admit to > not having paid much attention to > this issue in the past. > Sincerely puzzled, > Ron Andrico > www.mignarda.com > > Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 05:10:57 > -0800 > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; > dwinh...@comcast.net > > From: chriswi...@yahoo.com > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest > stroke > > > > I've seen Paul O'Dette use repeated rest strokes in the bass, > sometimes for fairly fast lines that I would take with p-i > alternating > (free) strokes. On the other hand, I've seen Robert Barto > occasionally > use rest strokes in the treble. > > > > There are an awful lot of paintings (especially, but not > exclusively, > baroque) in which the players are clearly using a rest stroke with > the > fingers a la classical guitar. In most of these the player is > obviously > tuning; in some, its not so clear. I know of no printed > instructions, > however. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > __________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. [1]Get it now. -- > > References > > 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
