Ron,
Good points. I'm working on exactly this point.
The main issue with true thumb-out is getting a decent and - far more
importantly - _consistent_ sound out of the treble strings. There clearly was
a marked aural difference between the too positions that the baroquenists
admired. How else to explain the Stammbuch of Stobaeus when he contrasts the
"pure, sharp, bright" tone of thumb-out versus the "rotten and muffled" sound
of old thumb-under. I think most modern baroque lutenists attempt to re-create
the thumb-under sound. They therefore have an anachronistic conception of tone.
I can't say that I agree with the "rotten and muffled" part, but for me,
there is nothing saying that a brighter sound can't be expressive. In my
experiments, I've found that it is quite possible to have a wide range of
timbral, tonal and dynamic shadings. The lute just responds differently with
the fingers in this position. Still a work in progress.
The secondary issue is that the true baroque lute technique is very, very
close to modern classical guitar technique. I think this strikes too close to
home for many lutenists for whom thumb-under is part of the (modern) "identity"
of what it means to be a "real" lute player, as distinct from wannabe classical
guitarists who thrash around on a pear-shaped instrument at ren. fests, etc.
Chris
--- On Tue, 1/19/10, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> From: Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
> To: chriswi...@yahoo.com, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, dwinh...@comcast.net
> Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 11:09 AM
> Chris & All:
> The rest stroke for the thumb seems a
> logical means to both produce a
> strong bass and teach the thumb to keep
> track of diapasons, although
> there is no specific referral to this
> technique by name in any written
> historical source I've seen. The
> term 'rest stroke' seems to be a
> classical guitar convention useful in
> adapting to lute technique. The
> thing I find extremely puzzling in the
> 'awful lot of paintings' you
> mention is that, for late 16th and almost
> all 17th century examples,
> there is a nearly uniform depiction of a
> thumb-out technique, which is
> also described clearly in written
> sources. With one exception, nearly
> all our notable baroque lutenists of
> today use a thumb-under
> technique. This even applies to a
> lutenist I've seen in a recent video
> who is described as never having played
> renaissance lute. What gives?
> Why don't baroque lutenists today use
> what is an unquestionably obvious
> historical technique? I admit to
> not having paid much attention to
> this issue in the past.
> Sincerely puzzled,
> Ron Andrico
> www.mignarda.com
> > Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 05:10:57
> -0800
> > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
> dwinh...@comcast.net
> > From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest
> stroke
> >
> > I've seen Paul O'Dette use repeated
> rest strokes in the bass,
> sometimes for fairly fast lines that I
> would take with p-i alternating
> (free) strokes. On the other hand, I've
> seen Robert Barto occasionally
> use rest strokes in the treble.
> >
> > There are an awful lot of paintings
> (especially, but not exclusively,
> baroque) in which the players are clearly
> using a rest stroke with the
> fingers a la classical guitar. In most of
> these the player is obviously
> tuning; in some, its not so clear. I know
> of no printed instructions,
> however.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list
> information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
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> References
>
> 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/
>
>
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