CS: Legal-57 months for man who thought he could buy a gun
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunone.com/articles/2000-11-09h.shtml Thursday, November 9, 2000 Dixie man sentenced for trying to buy gun By By KAREN VOYLES Sun staff writer He thought the state had restored all of his civil rights. A Dixie County man who tried to buy a gun after mistakenly believing his civil rights had been restored will spend nearly six years in prison. George Paige Stinson, 50, of Cross City was sentenced Wednesday to 57 months in federal prison and three years of probation for making a false statement on an application to buy a gun from a federally licensed dealer. Stinson claimed he thought his rights had been restored because he had been voting since he was convicted on state drug charges in the 1980s. A year ago, Stinson filled out the required paperwork to buy an Enfield rifle from B B Sporting Goods in Cross City. The application was rejected by federal officials because records showed Stinson was a convicted felon. Convicted felons may not purchase firearms or vote unless the state restores their rights. Stinson was convicted for three unrelated state marijuana violations in 1982, 1985 and 1987. After his first conviction, Stinson's voting rights were restored by the state. But Stinson could not demonstrate that his rights were restored after the other two convictions. In 1988, Stinson registered to vote in Dixie County and has been voting in local, state and federal elections ever since. When his firearms' application was rejected, he went to the Supervisor of Elections Office in Cross City, and officials there were sent a certificate that showed his voting rights had been restored June 6, 1984. Before Chief U.S. District Court Judge Maurice Paul, Stinson said he thought the restoration form meant that all of his rights had been restored. "I had this paper from Tallahassee saying my civil rights had been restored, but it didn't say nothing about my gun rights not being restored," Stinson, a high school dropout, told the judge. Stinson and his attorney, Jeff Dollinger, brought in witnesses to bolster Stinson's claims that he was working to be a productive and responsible member of society since serving his marijuana convictions. Florida Highway Patrol Lt. Thomas Daniels, one of Stinson's neighbors, testified that he often relied on Stinson and trusted him to watch his home when he had to be out of town. Deputy Dixie County clerk Mary Cannon testified that she has known Stinson for about 15 years and that he has been helping to provide child care for her two children for more than a year. Dollinger argued that Stinson was trying to do the right thing by buying a weapon from a licensed dealer rather than a private party and that he was confused because some of his rights had been restored. Those arguments did not sway Paul, but the judge did give Stinson the minimum sentence, 57 months, under the federal sentencing guidelines. -- Shame the reporter doesn't seem to know how many months there are in a year! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Ruger M77 Heavy Barrel Rifle
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have used an M77 in .308 for a number of years now. We also have a few as sniping rifles. Using 167 gr Lapua scenar, I get sub minute of angle out to 600m, which is as far as I have ever shot it. (Fitted with a Schmidt 12 x 42) My own has seen a lot of rounds down it, over 5,000 now, and it still shoots as well as ever. I had it rebedded by Riflecraft of Suffolk about a year ago, and this produced a notable tightening of group size. (not that it was ever bad) I have used it on reds and found it was no problem lugging it around the hills. All in all, a good choice and a proven design. (the triggers can sometimes benefit from a little tinkering to take the edge off a little roughness and rebedding in glass will improve things further, as it will in almost any new rifle) IG Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-NRA on US elections
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] NRA-ILA FAX ALERT Vol. 7, No. 45 11/09/00 ELECTIONS ARE OVERù43RD PRESIDENT REMAINS UNKNOWN November 7, Election Day 2000, will go down in history as one of the most interesting elections in history, and certainly one of the most confusing. As we go to press, we still do not know who will be the next President of the United States of America, and all eyes remain focused on the state of Florida. Due to the closeness of the presidential race in Florida, an automatic recount was required. If the recount confirms Texas Governor George W. Bush (R) did, indeed, win Florida, then he should become the 43rd U.S. President on January 20, 2001. But the final outcome may not be known for several days, and perhaps even longer. With that said, you can rest assured that NRA, along with the rest of the nation, will watch Florida very closely. As for the thousands of other races across the country, the picture is more clear. The U.S. Congress changed a little as far as which party controls the majority in each chamber, although those elections, too, have not all been determined. The U.S. Senate very well may be evenly split or tilted to the Republicans by one or two seats. From the pro-gun community's perspective, though, there was not a great deal of change overall, and there is still a slim pro-Second Amendment majority in the Senate. One particular race of interest, though, was in Virginia, where NRA-PVF-endorsed former Governor George Allen (R) defeated Chuck Robb (D), who had been an important ally of anti-gun extremists during his 12 years in the Senate. In the U.S. House, it looks like the Republicans will remain in control by a narrow margin, although there are still a few races that have not been officially called. But the majority is still considered to be pro-gun, as there remains a substantial bloc of pro-gun Democrats. Overall, NRA enjoyed tremendous success in federal races, and if the final numbers hold, more than 85% of the candidates we endorsed won their races. At the state level, the final results may not be known for several days, as NRA was involved in thousands of races. But again the pro-gun movement was successful in at least 85% of the races in which we were involved. Pro-gun governors continue to be the distinct majority, with 33 now in office. In addition, the pro-gun community added three new supporters of our Right to Keep and Bear Arms to Attorneys General offices on November 7. Of significant note, Indiana's incumbent Attorney General, Karen Freeman-Wilson (D), who attacked NRA as a speaker at the Democratic National Convention, was defeated by NRA-PVF-endorsed Steve Carter (R). State legislative chambers across the country did not change dramatically, and the general landscape seems much the same as it was before the elections. Even more telling is the fact that no NRA-PVF-endorsed candidate at the state level lost his race because of his views on firearms. NRA was also involved in a number of ballot measures. In Michigan, voters solidly rejected Proposal 2, a ploy to gut pro-gun statutes, silence the pro-gun majority in the legislature, and prevent Right to Carry reform from passage in the future. In North Dakota and Virginia, voters approved "Right to Hunt and Fish" constitutional amendments by wide margins, and in Oregon, an attempt to ban certain traps was easily defeated. Unfortunately, Colorado's and Oregon's "Gun Show" initiatives passed. Local pro-gun activists simply could not overcome the deceptive advertising campaigns and out-of-state activists who poured in money to promote these attacks on gun shows. While NRA helped financially at the request of our Colorado and Oregon members, financial support for the opposition from outside these states by individuals such as anti-gun extremist Rosie O'Donnell and billionaire Andrew J. McKelvey of Monster.com was simply overwhelming. Other ballot measures that were defeated included Measure 1 in Alaska, which sought to ban wildlife initiatives from the ballot, and Arizona's Proposition 102, which would have required a supermajority (2/3 of the vote) to approve any wildlife initiative. Also, Washington passed Initiative 713, a ban on certain traps. Overall, NRA and its members can take great pride in the effort we put forth to ensure our success on November 7. We didn't win every race, but we did win manyùand these victories simply would not have been possible without the active support of each and every NRA member in our noblest of causes. NRA members in Al Gore's home state of Tennessee should be exceptionally proud, as their votes are likely what delivered Tennessee's 11 Electoral votes to George Bush. NRA President Charlton Heston, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre, and NRA-ILA Executive Director James Jay Baker hosted rallies in Knoxville and Nashville just days prior to November 7, to bolster support for Bush and other pro-freedom candidates. These events were attended by thousands of NRA
CS: Pol-statutory right of entry
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are various emergency powers that can be brought into force by such people as the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Swine Fever, Foot and Mouth, etc), MOD, Home Office and vaious other government departments and organisations under Emergency Powers Acts or emergency situations covered in other acts. Some of the powers are almost literally draconian - right of entry and seizure of goods and property, summary arrest and detention without trial, etc. Regards Jerry -- Oh yeah, there are draconian emergency powers, have a read of Section 6 of the Firearms Act 1968 for example. There are all sorts of emergency orders and so on still in force regulating all sorts of things in Northern Ireland. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-statutory right of entry
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The VAT men (Customs and Excise) have always had awesome powers. Who would cheat the Queens revenue men? I wish the police had their powers. IG (only kidding) Steve , IG, Considering the implications of 'heritage' in law, this is one American who wonders how it came to be that the tax man managed to acquire such powers as to by-pass the local Sheriff in the area of enforcement. It would have been 'nice' had your henchmen of yore been completely dependant upon the local constabulary to assist them. Local police tend to have a more domestic outlook, because they do have to live in the area of their jurisdiction -- usually. Having to contend with the locals would, I think, impart a sense of humility -- no? In my opinion, however irrelevant it might be, all law enforcement should be local, and extend no further that the county. ET Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-statutory right of entry
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Control of Explosives Regulations, 1991 give enormous power to the HSE and, as their Agents, the police, to enter any premises where they have reason to believe that any explosives, powder, black powder, fireworks etc are being held contrary to the COER, 1991. The Firearms Act, 1968 also entitles a constable to enter any place if he believes that a firearms offence (as described in the Act) is being, has been or is about to be carried out! Extensive powers indeed! R.V.Malbon -- I'm familiar with the 1991 regs but there is more to it than that, it depends on the mechanism used to enforce it and what the regulations are for that. HSE tends towards business premises, so it may be the police would only use the power to enter business premises without a warrant. I'm not aware of anyone who has had their private residence entered without a warrant with those powers. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Entry without a Search Warrant
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sorry Steve the right of access is a lot wider than you seem to think, in certain circumstances all of these and more have a right of access to your home without a warrant. True they usually call the police as by that stage a brach of the peace is a likely event if they enter (social workers, etc) or public safety is at risk (gas workers, etc). Gas, water and electricity worker have a statutiry right of access to their equipment fitted in your home for safety or inspection (can also be wider). Social worker can enter under various child protection criteria if they have reasonable cause (they usually call the police). Customs and Excise have an 'open warrant' and usually only need the signature of a supervisory officer to exercise it. Fire and ambulance services can enter to do their respective duties. BT can enter to remove its lines and equipment (they usually don't apparently - I think this also applies to other telcos). I believe TV licencing need a warrant as do the police except when they are in 'hot persuit' or have reasonable suspicion that a wanted person is on the premises (search warrants usually only applly to searches for things not people). Environmental health officers do indeed have a right of access but usually use it through the courts. There are lots of others. Richard Stillgoe did a comedy sketch on it on TV the list is truly amazing. Regards Jerry Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-statutory right of entry
From: "niel fagan", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone got a copy of Richard Stillgo on thats life singing the "they have a statutory right of entry to your home" song? Just a passing thought. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-police show weapons seized from yardies
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] POLICE UNVEIL WEAPONS SEIZED FROM `YARDIE WANNABES' 091234 NOV 10 By Helen William, PA News A terrifying arsenal of weapons seized in raids aimed at quelling the spate of black-on-black violence was unveiled by police today. Among the arms recovered by Operation Trident, a Metropolitan Police project devoted to cracking down on murders in London, was a Mac 10 automatic sub-machine gun, capable of firing 32 bullets in 1.5 seconds. Other weapons displayed at Scotland Yard included several powerful handguns, many of which had been used in more than one violent crime in the capital. Scotland Yard claimed it was winning the war against Yardie-style murders because it had broken down years of distrust from the black community and was now enjoying a wealth of community-led intelligence, improved forensic techniques and taking a pro-active approach to arresting these gunmen. Commander Michael Fuller said police had been surprised by the range of guns recovered and that three machine guns were among them. He said that London was not awash with sub-machine guns but added: "The guns have been used in more than one shooting but our view is that firearms are not as available as first believed. "Hence any firearm recovered is a life saved and none of these guns would have been surrendered voluntarily." Since Operation Trident was launched in July there have been five murders and 10 attempted murders, compared with seven murders and 11 attempted murders from July to December 1999. But Scotland Yard insisted that the increase in numbers of murders is rising at a slower rate and that the clear-up of black-on-black crime has improved drastically since the 160-strong squad who work on Operation Trident was established. Most of the gunmen are 15 to 29-year-old British-born black people who are "wannabe Yardies", who delight in showing off their prowess with guns and hold potential witnesses in a grip of fear, said Mr Fuller. ~~~ Quote ...surprised by the range of guns recovered ... but our view is that firearms are not as available as first believed. Unquote There's not just the teensy weensy bit of a contradiction in this statement is there? We're not trying to say: Look how clever we are with all these guns we've got but there really aren't a lot of them becasue otherwise hundreds of millions of pounds of public money was wasted. Kenneth Pantling -- This looks very similar to a story that came out earlier in the year. Is this the same story or have they seized more guns? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-cameras and others
From: "niel fagan", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Some believe that cameras stop crime, personally I don't. At most it "moves crime on".It will not stop the thug smacking that old man or woman for their pension. It may have helped the police id Hamilton by his clothes, depending on the condition of his head, BUT A CAMERA WOULD NOT HAVE STOPPED HIM Just clearing out my stored mail log and found this interesting, As some know I work in an educational establishment, the incidence of violent crimes against persons and property here has been growing at a most alarming rate recently, talking to the chief security officers staff yesterday was most enlightening. During the day there are 5 staff on the main campus, one is commited to watching the monitors, one in a car *supervising*, one on foot putting parking enforcement notices on parked cars and two keeping the odd-bods from parking in the wrong place outside the admin. building. At night this drops to 2, one on the monitors one in the car. Away from the main campus there are more officers, 4 in one location (2 at night) because of the risk of bodies (human) being stolen/damaged, and another location has 6 during the day and 4 at night as they have an MOD research contract Some outlying areas have no security staff at all, the biggest fears of the women I spoke to were the risk of violent assault/rape returning to their cars after work in the dark, for the unaware freshers this time of year is VERY dangerous (male as well as female). Why so few security staff? After putting up CCTV (without IR illuminators so they are useless at night) the admin. people reduced the funding as they were no longer needed! The chief security officer visited another location along the coast and found 3 times the staff plus, CCTV with IR illumination, car-parks that were not just lit, but flood-lighted (he knows we have a problem), but as usual the money men have ruled that cameras are cheaper than staff and "more effective". It seems that the money men like cameras, cheaper than people (who are an actual deterent in most situations) and when linked to speed sensors etc revenue earners, I also suspect that if Blair and Straw succeed in making the police a nation-wide force, rather than the more local ones we have now, the spread of big brothers cameras and reduced police patrolling (petrol is SO expensive) will mean more no-go areas And just think your face will be known to the central computer so your movements can/will? be monitored realtime, will it summon an ARV just because I'm walking my son to school (known firearms certificate holder too near to children), will it cancel/down-grade a schools calls for help with an intruder because they are not? Niel, just a little concerned. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Another stupid ACPO policy
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably because so few police weapons are now easy to sell in the UK. What's the second hand value of a semi-auto MP5 or a Glock or SiG pistol when well worn and on the open (i.e. international) market? Probably not much. You can't sell them in the UK as we can't own them (unless they are deactivated of course). If you export them or sell them to a dealer they are probably going to cost even more than destroying them. Regards Jerry -- You're forgetting about trade-ins, the police often did trade in their old guns for new ones, and then the dealer would either deac the old ones or export them. You're also assuming the police dispose of guns that are well-worn, they don't, I know of one police force whose definition of "well worn" is moderate holster wear, so they ditch them before they rust. Reparkerise and you have a decent gun. And the final incorrect assumption is that none of them can be legally owned by civilians, the police have a lot of shotguns and rifles that are perfectly legal for us to own, but they are chopping them all up. For example, I was in line to buy a police surplus P-H bipod, but instead it has been melted down because of this stupidity. It's a complete and utter waste of taxpayer money. Anyone who has some evidence of other police guns being destroyed because of this policy feel free to let me know. Bear in mind this is merely an ACPO policy, it has no legal standing, how ACPO can dictate the expenditure of my tax money is beyond me. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Ruger M77 Heavy Barrel Rifle
From: Peter H Jackson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Martin, I have re-barreled, bedded, and generally fettled quite a few Ruger 77s, though nowadays I advise people not try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. They are cheap, safe, reliable guns but you only get what you pay for. The factory triggers are awful, the receivers are cast steel with sloppy bolts, the bedding system is weird, the barrel thread is short with a narrow shoulder. I recently re-barreled a M77 220 Swift which had fired well over 2,000 full-house rounds, and still only one bolt lug was contacting the receiver! All these things make it less likely, though not impossible, that a Ruger M77 will shoot well enough to win prizes for accuracy... maybe if you get one with a concentric chamber and a good bore, but this is a lucky dip. Design-wise, Remingtons are considerably better. The barrel-receiver joint is better, the trigger is adjustable for creep, overtravel and weight, and the receivers are almost a pleasure to bed. Some of the VSSF and PSS barrels and chambers are OK, and it is not unknown for them to agg around 0.5 MOA out of the box. If you buy one, borrow a bore-scope and piss your local dealer off by choosing one with a more-or-less concentric throat - if you haven't the brass neck to do this, budget to have to have the barrel set back and re-chambered (say 100 quid, plus proof charges if you ever want to sell it). The main gripe with short action Rem 700s is the 2.8" magazine, in conjunction with a long throat. You have a choice of seating long ogive bullets to touch the rifling, or using the magazine. You can't do both. There are lots of after-market goodies for the Rem 700, the best of which is the Arnold Jewell trigger - the standard by which all other triggers are judged. If you want a mass-produced rifle from a factory which pays more attention to quality control and machining tolerances, I would suggest a Tikka. I haven't seen a really bad one yet and they seem to be competitive in the UKBRA factory rifle class out of the box. Another advantage is the removable clip magazine, which is long enough for most bullets in the 308 Win case. Best regards, Peter. www.jacksonrifles.com Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Ruger M77 Heavy Barrel Rifle
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I intend to buy a heavy barrel .308 in the near future, principally for target use, possible occasional red deer, and would like to hear experience/opinion from users of the Ruger M77 VT MK 2. My M77 Mk II was in 243. It came with a trigger in excess of 7lbs, and which had bad creep. With my hand loads, and the bullet seated well out to the lands, it would shoot 3/4 to 1 inch 3 round groups at a 100 yards. (That was good enough for me.) The rifle you're looking at presumably has the same action and trigger. My trigger was improved by a US riflesmith who polished it and lightened the trigger as much as he could, to 5lbs. The trigger, unlike the Rem 700 and the Win 70, is not adjustable. I think Timney now make a trigger for the Mk II (but check). I have tried the Remington 700 VSSF and found it uncomfortable to hold and shoot, possibly because I have quite small hands although I have no problem with my Lee-Enfield No4 or Ruger M77 MK1. I have a Winchester Model 70 Sporter Varmint. This is wooden stocked with a blued action barrel, the barrel having a No. 5 taper. This means that the barrel tapers more than the Rem 700 Varmint barrel does. I found the Rem to be muzzle heavy when fired from the shoulder, whereas the Win is better balanced. And the Win has an adjustable trigger. I've used this rifle for roe and red stalking, in addition to foxing and on crows. It's a fine rifle, but having carried it up a 2,200 feet climb, I can say that it's not something you want to do too often. It weighs 10lbs at the start of the day, and considerably more than that at the end of the day. :-) --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-statutory right of entry
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The VAT men (Customs and Excise) have always had awesome powers. IG: How far does this go, does it only apply if they think you are evading VAT or Duty or can they just go on a Fishing trip? Jonathan Laws. -- Well look what's going on in Australia with handguns. The Federal Government down there have given customs absolutely collosal powers to control the import and export of handguns. In theory if a dealer imports a handgun as a dealer's sample (I think he can have a maximum of ten) he can never sell that gun because of the Customs rules. If he does, even twenty years later, he has violated _import_ law and Customs can legally roust him without a warrant! All he can do with it is export it or have it destroyed as I recall. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Artists Rifles
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED] They say sorry to go on at such length but thought you would appreciate the background and indeed THE FACTS Sorry if I made any mistakes, OOerr lol Amazing the reaction that you can get just 'cos you think something is naff! lol IG Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-armed police raid wrong house
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ARMED POLICE RAID WRONG HOUSE 101038 NOV 10 By Damien Pearse, Crime Correspondent, PA News Police sent flowers to a couple after breaking into the wrong home and bundling them out of bed at gunpoint before marching them into the street in their pyjamas, it emerged today. Scotland Yard officers attached a note to the bouquet sent to Fred and Jane Martin reading: "With regret for the inconvenience caused, Lambeth Police". A team of armed officers accompanied by police dogs crashed into the couple's home in Camberwell, south London, in a dawn raid on October 31 - Hallowe'en. Mr Martin said he was awoken by the sound of the front door crashing in and went to his window to find an officer pointing a gun at him. The pair were ordered to go downstairs before Fred, 63, was handcuffed and marched into the street wearing his night-clothes. Mrs Martin said she was told to put her hands on her head and was surrounded by up to 10 armed officers. Mr Martin said: "I was very, very scared. The police have apologised with a bunch of flowers but my wife is still scared." A Scotland Yard spokesman confirmed that armed officers have raided the couple's house in search of a gunman who was threatening to kill himself. The spokesman said: "We were called by the London Ambulance Service just after 7.15am in respect of a man acting irrationally." The spokesman added: "The man was thought to be in possession of a firearm. "Unfortunately, the person who called us gave us the wrong address and we found an elderly couple in bed and the situation was quickly rectified." A man suspected of brandishing a firearm was later questioned after a raid on another address and released without charge. Kenneth Pantling Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-statutory right of entry
From: Mike Taylor, [EMAIL PROTECTED] If they have grounds for suspicion that there is any propellant, black powder, fireworks, loaded ammunition, primers and probably other explosives, they have right of entry without a warrant. The property owner/occupier can refuse entry but that is an offence in itself. They can enter property, take samples, seize documents and pretty well do as they like. I also seem to recall that they can ask questions of a man's wife (about her husband) which she is compelled to answer. Normally a wife cannot be compelled to testify against her husband. -- This doesn't sound right to me, my house was searched by the police looking for explosives and they had a warrant. Primers, fireworks, ammunition and smokeless powder don't require an explosives license unless you have sizable quantities. Steve. If they had a warrant they did not need the powers granted under the Control of Explosives Regulations / HSE provisions. That does not mean they don't exist. The need for a licence is irrelevant. The exemptions have limits on quantities etc so offences can still occur. The regulations came into force by Statutory Instrument in 1991 and were the subject of a protracted fight even after they came in. Perhaps they were voted down after their introduction. If so, I don't recall it. Read Cadmus (Colin Greenwood) Guns Review February 1992 to get a flavour of what was included. Colin Greenwood described the powers as 'draconian' and he was correct. There were other Cadmus articles which went into much greater detail but I can't locate them. Anyone else with a long memory? Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Artists Rifles
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have been asked to forward the following. The pilgrims poster for a very long time has not been in the club house. It was removed from the foyer to the bar area for a while then removed altogether. Not because it was NAFF so much that the person did not care for it, too Darth Vader-ishand sombre for taste. The historical aspect of the club, s interior/decore/ephemeta in general. The poem as such is misquoted and has fox-trot alpha to do with dear old Rudyard Kipling. It come from the verse play Hassan by James Elroy Flecher, 1st published in 1922. JEF was born in Lewisham 1884, educated at Dean Close school, Cheltenham, where his dad was h master. Then at uppingham where he won a classical scholarship 2 trinity Oxford. He passed the exam for the Consular Service in 1908. Spent 2 years studying oriental languages at Cambridge where he was a friend of other poets and writers. He entered the Consular Service in 1910, was posted to Istanbul, later Smyrna and Beirut, but was soon found to be suffering from TB. He published several volumes of poetry and wrote 2 plays. Don Juan and Hassan neither published in his lifetime he died in Switzerland in 1915 aged 31. He prob wrote Hasssan 1911-13 after reading an old Turkish farce in Autumn 1911. The original Hassan script coming 2 the attention of Basil Dean in Autumn 19113 via Viola Tree daughter of Sir Herbeit Tree for whom BBD worked as an assistant producer, who said please give this wonderful play special attention; I can, t get daddy to read it as he says it, s too long. The final revised version was eventually performed on 20/9/1923 at His Majesty, s Theatre. The poem which does appear, in part, on the Clock-comes from act III, Scene IV the last scene of the play, roughly in the middle. It is spoken by The Master of the Caravan at the gate of the moon, Baghdad and Ishak (formerly the Caliph Haron Al Raschid,s Minstrel now with Hassan, a pilgrim). Hassan is not master of the caravan as per page 27 in Mr Stuart,s book, he is formally a confectioner in the bazaar. It reads thus: The Principal Jews: And we have manuscripts in peacock styles By Alia of Damascus: we have swords Engraved with storks and apes and crocodiles and heavy beaten necklaces for lords The Master of the Caravan But you are nothing but a lot of Jews The Principal Jew Sir even dogs have daylight and we pay The Master of the Caravan But who are you in rags and rotten shoes You dirty-bearded, blocking up the way? Ishak We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow Axe that angry or that glimmering sea Write on a throne or guarded in a cave There lives a prophet who can understand why men were born: but surely we are brave, who take the golden road to Samarkand They say sorry to go on at such length but thought you would appreciate the background and indeed THE FACTS Sorry if I made any mistakes, Tina Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-doctor threatened nurse with replica gun
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DOCTOR THREATENED NURSE WITH REPLICA MACHINEGUN, GMC TOLD 091021 NOV 10 By Vik Iyer, PA News A hospital doctor pushed a replica machinegun into a nurse's abdomen and then pulled the trigger, the General Medical Council heard today. Yat Ming Davy Chan had walked into the hospital in Abergavenny, Gwent, dressed in military-style gear and told staff members that he had purchased the gun. He then showed the gun to Sister Rennie Smith and asked her whether he should shoot at a young girl who was standing nearby. The doctor, whose address was given as Richmond Park, Hong Kong, is accused of inappropriate, irresponsible and threatening conduct in October 1999 at the Nevill Hall Hospital. He denies that allegation. Dr Chan was off duty at the time of the incident, the hearing in London was told. ~~ Yep, and he'll see to your Farmer Giles with a bayonet. Kenneth Pantling Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The people who made the comments that IG is witness to, are extreme bigots; and if they occupy any office of government, they are particularly dangerous as well. I wonder: would they be able to defend them in an open law court? Ho hum. Here we go again. Police v shooters. The people i mentioned (tongue in cheek btw) would be able to defend their ignorant and untrue comments equally as well as the ignorant and deceitful rumour mongers who propogate the myth that 66.6% of police officers are corrupt or do nothing about corruption. Or perhaps neither of them could... or perhaps one or the other is wrong? or perhaps they are all wrong? Phew IG Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Armed guards in watchtowers may be inevitable, warns prisons' chief
From: RustyBullethole, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Armed guards in watchtowers may be inevitable, warns prisons' chief By Ian Burrell, Home Affairs Correspondent INDEPENDENT 9 November 2000 Armed prison guards in watchtowers are inevitable if more dangerous inmates escape, the head of the Prison Service warned yesterday. "One day that will come," said director-general Martin Narey. "I hope it does not come for a very long time. I think it is an inevitability if we are unable to fulfil our primary task of protecting the public." But, he said, armed guards "would be damaging" to the "great deal of humane work that goes on in the service". Prison chiefs are becoming increasingly concerned at the arms, money and other resources available to help dangerous prisoners escape. Since August, staff have foiled breakouts by uncovering a bomb detonator and two replica firearms in high-security jails. Authorities have unveiled a L13m electronic multi-camera super-surveillance system to monitor the 9,000 most dangerous prisoners in England and Wales. Mr Narey said the Concept 2000 system would help put off armed watchtowers. "We have to have the very best technology if we are to thwart determined attempts to escape. We realise that attempts to escape can be supported by arms." The system is called Panop- tes after a 100-eyed creature from Greek mythology who never slept. It requires 120 fewer operators than now watch banks of TV screens in jail control rooms. Mr Narey said the detonator was concealed in a drain at a high-security prison "in a very sophisticated manner". Replica firearms were found at Long Lartin prison, near Worcester, and Wakefield prison, west Yorkshire. Britain is the only country in Western Europe that does not have armed guards on the walls, he added. In 1953, officers overseeing work patrols from Dartmoor gave up their carbines and Webley revolvers, the last guards to carry arms. Now officers have only a small baton, shields, helmets and protective clothing. Non-lethal weaponry, including CS Gas and pepper sprays, may also be considered. In 1994, IRA terrorists used a smuggled firearm in an attempted breakout at Whitemoor prison, Cambridgeshire, in 1994. One officer was shot. Three years earlier, two IRA men shot their way out of Brixton prison, south London, and escaped to Ireland. But since 1995, not a single high-security prisoner has escaped. Only five prisoners have escaped from jails since March, compared to 30 in the previous 12 months. --- The last paragraph sums it all up - not a single high-security prisoner has escaped for over 5 years, so why do they want watchtowers and guns. Could it be toys for the boys syndrome creeping in or perhaps to provide a "shot whilst escaping" facility. What they want is some bugger to search the guards coming to work, if you can't keep drugs, guns and explosives out of prison what chance have you got of keeping them off the streets of the UK. Rusty -- My interpretation of his comments is: "We can get by without guns until the next time a prison officer is shot by an escapee." Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-doctor cleared of misconduct
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Replica gun doctor cleared of misconduct A hospital doctor accused of pushing a replica rifle into a nurse's stomach and pulling the trigger has been cleared of serious professional misconduct. Yat Ming Davy Chan was accused of walking into a hospital in Abergavenny, Gwent, wearing military-style clothing and told colleagues he had bought a gun. He later showed the replica M16 rifle to Sister Rennie Smith in the hospital car park. It was claimed that he asked her if he should shoot a nearby girl before he pointed it at her and she felt vibrations as if it had been fired. The General Medical Council's Professional Conduct Committee sitting in central London found Dr Chan of guilty of "inappropriate" and "irresponsible behaviour" but did not find the incident supported a finding of serious professional misconduct. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-statutory right of entry
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone got a copy of Richard Stillgo on thats life singing the "they have a statutory right of entry to your home" song? Just a passing thought. Wasn't that the "Nationwide" news programme of some years ago? Amazing what you can remeber when you were a very, very, very small child aint it? Jonathan Laws. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Useful Quote
From: "John Hurst", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The real cause of the American Revolution: "All persons in whose possession any firearms may hereafter be found, will be deemed enemies to his majesty's government." --Gen. Gage Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-6x47mm
Does anyone have any experience with this calibre? Apparently it is .222 Remington Magnum necked up to 6mm. When I was in Switzerland recently SM told me they had started making ammunition in this calibre, and apparently the European 300m ISSF champion used it. I was going to buy a Free Rifle in .308 or 7.5x55 but now I am wondering whether it is worth waiting to see if something comes out in 6x47. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-robotic deer
From: "Tim Jeffreys", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I found this quite funny in this week's Time magazine: Tim. Steve Lopez's America Michigan Bambi's Got a Little Secret Poachers may find this venison tough to swallow - WE CRAB AND CROUCH in the brush, low to the ground in the woods of Michigan. Deep, deep in the woods. Patient, silent, dressed as trees, we stalk our prey. Not the mighty bear or the trophy buck but an animal far more dangerous, and dumber than a bucket of rocks. The poacher. A white pickup slides to a Halt the driver spotting a white-tailed doe and a buck in the brush off Sucker Creek Road in Alcona County. The deer are on private property, so if this hacker grabs his rifle and takes a shot, he's under arrest. Bob Mills, my partner, radios to our backups, Sergeant Pete Malette and Officer Warren MacNeill, who are hiding in a nearby grove. 'We've got a looker," Mills tells them. The driver is backing up slowly, so as not to scare the deer away before he can get a clear shot. What he doesn't know, the poor sap, is that the deer are not real. They're robodeer. Yes. Robotic deer. Who can compete with American ingenuity? Malette just had a funeral for a buck that took so many bullets in the line of duty - more than 100 in seven years - they called him Sluggo. All across the country, conservation officers use mechanical Bambis, most of them made by a Wisconsin taxidermist, to nab poachers. The deer don't gallop through the woods or eat prize rhododendrons. Only their heads and tails move. But that's all it takes. "You can't believe the look on a guy's face," Malette says, when a brawny hunter discovers he has just blown holes in a stuffed animal with AA batteries in its head. Mills gives me a cue to flick the two joysticks that make my deer's head swivel and her tail twitch from 45 m away. This would be easier if not for the camouflage hat the officers gave me. With a curtain of dangling burlap strips, it looks like Bob Marley has joined a militia. My doe's head may be spinning around like something out of The Exorcist for all I know. 1 can't see through the dreadlocks. The driver may not know whether to lock and load or call a priest. But he's still watching. Go ahead, tough guy. Show some courage. Some poachers have argued entrapment, but Malette knows of no one who's got off on that defense, because the typical charge is trespassing, carrying a loaded weapon or shooting out of season, which can cost up to $500 in fines and 90 days in the brig. And he's come across some real All Stars. The Hemingway wannabe who wet his pants when he got caught. The jughead who was nabbed twice in one day. Malette uses a wild-turkey de- coy too, and had one cowboy go after it with a.357 Magnum. We're talking National Rifle Association Dream Team. But the all-time champ was the Lions Club president who asked Malette to bring a decoy to their fleeting. 'They were laughing, and the president said, 'WhoÆs going to take a shot at this thing?"' Three days later Malette had the decoy on a stakeout. Guy drives up, gets out with his rifle and blasts away. The Lions Club president. And that was back in the '80s, when the decoys had no moving parts. Brian Wolslegel, the Mosinee, Wis., taxidermist, with a former partner began experimenting with moving parts several years ago. He sells 200 to 300 robots a year at about $800 a pop. In the past six years, conservation officers from 45 states and Canada have bought Wolslegel's robotic elk, turkey, deer and bear. Wolslegel glues real animal hides to polyurethane molds, cuts off the heads and installs batteries and robotics, then slides the heads back on. (The very process, oddly enough, that's used to make presidential candidates.) "I'm backed up about 50 orders right now," says Wolslegel. He sells almost half the robots to hunters, who use them as decoys. And I'm backed up deep, deep in the woods of northern Michigan, stalking the ultimate game. I flick my doe's tail and turn her head so she's staring down the guy in the white pickup. A rookie mistake, maybe. So many poachers have been bagged, theyÆre taking a closer look now, and this guy just got wise to us. He hits the gas and disappears. No problem. We're on Sucker Creek Road after all. I crouch. 1 adjust my dreadlocks. Next guy down the road is mine. TIME, NOVEMBER 13 2000 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-statutory right of entry
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] HSE union reps. have right of entry to any property that have their members working there and can ask for police assistance in gaining entry and carrying out the inspection. The RSPCA and NSPCC can also request this assistance for their work. The RSPCA is a charity and has no powers WHATSOEVER. If it wants to have a property searched, then it tends to ask for police help. If the property owner refuses, then a Magistrates' warrant must be obtained by the police - and the police must produce reasonable grounds for suspicion. Reasonable suspicion, according to law, is more than mere suspicion, there must be concrete grounds for the suspicion. If anyone who is not a constable is to take part in the search then search then they must be named on the warrant or their presence would be a trespass. In my experience, the RSPCA as an institution, disregards the law in this respect (which is why I sued them and won). --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
