Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Hi guys, I've sent new images for the Pi 4b and Pi 5 to Andy for testing, with a view that they be deployed on the downloads page. These both use the 6.1.69 kernel which is the very first version where the Raspberry Kernel and the PREEMPT_RT patch align perfectly. Hopefully over the last 6 weeks, the pi5 is better supported now. *Raspberry Pi 4b/400* https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Bzx_PqRqdJVTMPlNMEG7z_RjJHf7QcDX/view?usp=sharing *Raspberry PI 5* https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HBXliMQE-OvU0PQPYEOK3OqJz0-CTO5K/view?usp=sharing For initial login credentials, and initial configuration, please refer to the download page https://linuxcnc.org/downloads/ Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Sun, 31 Dec 2023 at 01:35, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers < emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > Rod, > > Thank you for your kind and swift reply. > HDMI sound works perfectly with the Raspbian default. Also, I think this > would find quite some user base, since anyone reusing an old TV or a > feature-rich monitor with the RPi would immediately benefit. I also > mentioned games before :) > > The RPi image we come up with does not need to be perfect. Our users > should just not be surprised with anythin when using it. My wishlist would > be > * A pointer to our manual at all the places where the image could be > downloaded > * The manual describing >- how the image is created so they can contribute >- what not to do with that image > > On a sidenote, please have a look at http://raspi.debian.net/. Nothing on > the RPi5, though maybe this resonates somehow with what we are after. > > Best, > Steffen > > > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Dezember 2023 um 14:16 Uhr > > Von: "Rod Webster" > > An: "EMC developers" > > Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - > first impressions > > > > Steffen, > > > > Some good feedback thanks. > > I'm really not surprised things broke on an update because we compile the > > kernel from the Raspberry sources at a specific point in the commit tree. > > It's not a generic Debian build by any means. LIkewise installing a > > different desktop is also asking for trouble. > > > > Having no sound is also not surprising because in the absence of an audio > > jack you are dependent on HDMI and I know other SBC's have issues with > HDMI > > sound. If someone has a solution please let me know > > > > Please bear in mind that this image is over 6 weeks old and there have > been > > several kernel releases and countless commits to the raspberry pi kernel > > since then. > > > > But for me, the main thing is that it's only in the last few days that > the > > kernel version and the PREEMPT_RT patch align perfectly so I am hoping my > > next version is more robust. That has never happened in the life of the > pi5 > > before. > > > > To test latency on the console, you can install the debian rt-tests > > package. I have found that our latency-histogram yields similar results. > > > > I don't think a single 400 usec spike when opening a browser is of > concern. > > Thats not something you do when running a gcode program. > > > > Hopefully I will have some peace and quiet over the weekend to build a > new > > version. > > > > Rod Webster > > *1300 896 832* > > +61 435 765 611 > > Vehicle Modifications Network > > www.vehiclemods.net.au > > > > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 21:58, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers < > > emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > > > > > Heya, > > > > > > Not only that we have a RPi4/5 confusion, you managed to add a Rod/b > one. > > > > > > So, the image Andy pointed to (which I understand has its roots with > Rod) > > > works very nicely. While idle latencies did not exceed 12µs, mostly > below > > > 10. That was truly impressive. Once I got wifi up and initiated some > > > downloads, it doubled to 24µs, much like the value Andy got. When I > started > > > up firefox and selected youtube, I got a single value of 400µs, though. > > > > > > A complaint I have is that there was no sound in the default > installation. > > > The 400µs I like to speculate may be associated with the failed > attempt to > > > perform the respective initialisations. > > > > > > Another complaint is that the image is not stable when it comes to > > > updates. I was curious on the effect that the installation of KDE would > > > have o
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Rod, Thank you for your kind and swift reply. HDMI sound works perfectly with the Raspbian default. Also, I think this would find quite some user base, since anyone reusing an old TV or a feature-rich monitor with the RPi would immediately benefit. I also mentioned games before :) The RPi image we come up with does not need to be perfect. Our users should just not be surprised with anythin when using it. My wishlist would be * A pointer to our manual at all the places where the image could be downloaded * The manual describing - how the image is created so they can contribute - what not to do with that image On a sidenote, please have a look at http://raspi.debian.net/. Nothing on the RPi5, though maybe this resonates somehow with what we are after. Best, Steffen > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Dezember 2023 um 14:16 Uhr > Von: "Rod Webster" > An: "EMC developers" > Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - > first impressions > > Steffen, > > Some good feedback thanks. > I'm really not surprised things broke on an update because we compile the > kernel from the Raspberry sources at a specific point in the commit tree. > It's not a generic Debian build by any means. LIkewise installing a > different desktop is also asking for trouble. > > Having no sound is also not surprising because in the absence of an audio > jack you are dependent on HDMI and I know other SBC's have issues with HDMI > sound. If someone has a solution please let me know > > Please bear in mind that this image is over 6 weeks old and there have been > several kernel releases and countless commits to the raspberry pi kernel > since then. > > But for me, the main thing is that it's only in the last few days that the > kernel version and the PREEMPT_RT patch align perfectly so I am hoping my > next version is more robust. That has never happened in the life of the pi5 > before. > > To test latency on the console, you can install the debian rt-tests > package. I have found that our latency-histogram yields similar results. > > I don't think a single 400 usec spike when opening a browser is of concern. > Thats not something you do when running a gcode program. > > Hopefully I will have some peace and quiet over the weekend to build a new > version. > > Rod Webster > *1300 896 832* > +61 435 765 611 > Vehicle Modifications Network > www.vehiclemods.net.au > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 21:58, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers < > emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > > > Heya, > > > > Not only that we have a RPi4/5 confusion, you managed to add a Rod/b one. > > > > So, the image Andy pointed to (which I understand has its roots with Rod) > > works very nicely. While idle latencies did not exceed 12µs, mostly below > > 10. That was truly impressive. Once I got wifi up and initiated some > > downloads, it doubled to 24µs, much like the value Andy got. When I started > > up firefox and selected youtube, I got a single value of 400µs, though. > > > > A complaint I have is that there was no sound in the default installation. > > The 400µs I like to speculate may be associated with the failed attempt to > > perform the respective initialisations. > > > > Another complaint is that the image is not stable when it comes to > > updates. I was curious on the effect that the installation of KDE would > > have on the latencies, and if the missing sound would install with it. So I > > installed the package "task-desktop-kde" with debfoster. That ruined the > > reboot since the expected kernel image was no longer found. I made a > > screenshot with my phone and send it to whoever is interested, but my hunch > > is that Rod's new image if depending more on Debian's installation will > > likely solve such inconsistency issues. > > > > Do we have any latency tools that would run without X, so we get a > > baseline of what software layer is costing us how much? I recall that we do > > but latency-test at least does not. I am asking since the latency-sensitive > > gaming industry should have some strong incentive to look into what we are > > doing but I have not seen too much from them, yet. Ok - this may be > > something for another thread. > > > > Best, > > Steffen > > > > > > > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Dezember 2023 um 04:15 Uhr > > > Von: "Rob M" > > > An: "EMC developers" > > > Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - > > first impressions > > > > > > Umm Rod Old Mate was referring to the my linked images for the
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Steffen, Some good feedback thanks. I'm really not surprised things broke on an update because we compile the kernel from the Raspberry sources at a specific point in the commit tree. It's not a generic Debian build by any means. LIkewise installing a different desktop is also asking for trouble. Having no sound is also not surprising because in the absence of an audio jack you are dependent on HDMI and I know other SBC's have issues with HDMI sound. If someone has a solution please let me know Please bear in mind that this image is over 6 weeks old and there have been several kernel releases and countless commits to the raspberry pi kernel since then. But for me, the main thing is that it's only in the last few days that the kernel version and the PREEMPT_RT patch align perfectly so I am hoping my next version is more robust. That has never happened in the life of the pi5 before. To test latency on the console, you can install the debian rt-tests package. I have found that our latency-histogram yields similar results. I don't think a single 400 usec spike when opening a browser is of concern. Thats not something you do when running a gcode program. Hopefully I will have some peace and quiet over the weekend to build a new version. Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 21:58, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers < emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > Heya, > > Not only that we have a RPi4/5 confusion, you managed to add a Rod/b one. > > So, the image Andy pointed to (which I understand has its roots with Rod) > works very nicely. While idle latencies did not exceed 12µs, mostly below > 10. That was truly impressive. Once I got wifi up and initiated some > downloads, it doubled to 24µs, much like the value Andy got. When I started > up firefox and selected youtube, I got a single value of 400µs, though. > > A complaint I have is that there was no sound in the default installation. > The 400µs I like to speculate may be associated with the failed attempt to > perform the respective initialisations. > > Another complaint is that the image is not stable when it comes to > updates. I was curious on the effect that the installation of KDE would > have on the latencies, and if the missing sound would install with it. So I > installed the package "task-desktop-kde" with debfoster. That ruined the > reboot since the expected kernel image was no longer found. I made a > screenshot with my phone and send it to whoever is interested, but my hunch > is that Rod's new image if depending more on Debian's installation will > likely solve such inconsistency issues. > > Do we have any latency tools that would run without X, so we get a > baseline of what software layer is costing us how much? I recall that we do > but latency-test at least does not. I am asking since the latency-sensitive > gaming industry should have some strong incentive to look into what we are > doing but I have not seen too much from them, yet. Ok - this may be > something for another thread. > > Best, > Steffen > > > > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Dezember 2023 um 04:15 Uhr > > Von: "Rob M" > > An: "EMC developers" > > Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - > first impressions > > > > Umm Rod Old Mate was referring to the my linked images for the RPi4, not > > your ones, the ones I built for other reasons. > > > > On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 1:26 PM Rod Webster > wrote: > > > > > >None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the > file > > > > > > Well yes they are. Andy and Steffan are using pi5 variant of my image > which > > > is used for the 2.9.1 release from here: > > > > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_q0Ra-27ZDOhquvq179beUZQNVlex1f/view?usp=sharing > > > Filename (with rpi-5 in it): > > > rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz > > > It was built for the Pi 5's BCM2712 board. > > > Username: cnc Password: cnc > > > to finalise the installation (wifi, password , locale etc) type: sudo > > > menu-config > > > > > > If the screen resolution is not right, it should be able to be fixed > with > > > a parameter in one of the pi's config files. > > > > > > I have just completed and tested a 2.9.2 installer for X86 on Debian > 12.4. > > > I managed to bypass the raspberry-firmware installation bug in earlier > > > versions (Inherited from Debian) > > > > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nw0dGt5aZXVo8k68lLf4N_nzc0wTczAg/view?usp=sharing >
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Heya, Not only that we have a RPi4/5 confusion, you managed to add a Rod/b one. So, the image Andy pointed to (which I understand has its roots with Rod) works very nicely. While idle latencies did not exceed 12µs, mostly below 10. That was truly impressive. Once I got wifi up and initiated some downloads, it doubled to 24µs, much like the value Andy got. When I started up firefox and selected youtube, I got a single value of 400µs, though. A complaint I have is that there was no sound in the default installation. The 400µs I like to speculate may be associated with the failed attempt to perform the respective initialisations. Another complaint is that the image is not stable when it comes to updates. I was curious on the effect that the installation of KDE would have on the latencies, and if the missing sound would install with it. So I installed the package "task-desktop-kde" with debfoster. That ruined the reboot since the expected kernel image was no longer found. I made a screenshot with my phone and send it to whoever is interested, but my hunch is that Rod's new image if depending more on Debian's installation will likely solve such inconsistency issues. Do we have any latency tools that would run without X, so we get a baseline of what software layer is costing us how much? I recall that we do but latency-test at least does not. I am asking since the latency-sensitive gaming industry should have some strong incentive to look into what we are doing but I have not seen too much from them, yet. Ok - this may be something for another thread. Best, Steffen > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Dezember 2023 um 04:15 Uhr > Von: "Rob M" > An: "EMC developers" > Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - > first impressions > > Umm Rod Old Mate was referring to the my linked images for the RPi4, not > your ones, the ones I built for other reasons. > > On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 1:26 PM Rod Webster wrote: > > > >None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file > > > > Well yes they are. Andy and Steffan are using pi5 variant of my image which > > is used for the 2.9.1 release from here: > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_q0Ra-27ZDOhquvq179beUZQNVlex1f/view?usp=sharing > > Filename (with rpi-5 in it): > > rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz > > It was built for the Pi 5's BCM2712 board. > > Username: cnc Password: cnc > > to finalise the installation (wifi, password , locale etc) type: sudo > > menu-config > > > > If the screen resolution is not right, it should be able to be fixed with > > a parameter in one of the pi's config files. > > > > I have just completed and tested a 2.9.2 installer for X86 on Debian 12.4. > > I managed to bypass the raspberry-firmware installation bug in earlier > > versions (Inherited from Debian) > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nw0dGt5aZXVo8k68lLf4N_nzc0wTczAg/view?usp=sharing > > I will also rebuild the images for the Pi4 and Pi5, but I am kernelled out > > for today! > > > > Rod Webster > > *1300 896 832* > > +61 435 765 611 > > Vehicle Modifications Network > > www.vehiclemods.net.au > > > > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 12:00, Rob M wrote: > > > > > None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file > > > name would made the obvious, but as this a topic about the 4 I guess > > there > > > could be some confusion. > > > > > > As for the recent RPi5 image you tried does that have any issues with > > > screen resolution? Is it stuck on a single resolution? Does it detect the > > > display it's attached to ? These issues, as mentioned previously, a game > > > stopper for myself. If they aren't an issue could you say what > > > kind-brand-model display you're using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023, 11:40 andy pugh, wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 00:27, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Andy's image was a success - I just did not know the passwords. > > > > > > > > I mentioned it in a previous message, but it is cnc / cnc > > > > > > > > -- > > > > atp > > > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > > > lunatics." > > > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > >
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Umm Rod Old Mate was referring to the my linked images for the RPi4, not your ones, the ones I built for other reasons. On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 1:26 PM Rod Webster wrote: > >None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file > > Well yes they are. Andy and Steffan are using pi5 variant of my image which > is used for the 2.9.1 release from here: > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_q0Ra-27ZDOhquvq179beUZQNVlex1f/view?usp=sharing > Filename (with rpi-5 in it): > rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz > It was built for the Pi 5's BCM2712 board. > Username: cnc Password: cnc > to finalise the installation (wifi, password , locale etc) type: sudo > menu-config > > If the screen resolution is not right, it should be able to be fixed with > a parameter in one of the pi's config files. > > I have just completed and tested a 2.9.2 installer for X86 on Debian 12.4. > I managed to bypass the raspberry-firmware installation bug in earlier > versions (Inherited from Debian) > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nw0dGt5aZXVo8k68lLf4N_nzc0wTczAg/view?usp=sharing > I will also rebuild the images for the Pi4 and Pi5, but I am kernelled out > for today! > > Rod Webster > *1300 896 832* > +61 435 765 611 > Vehicle Modifications Network > www.vehiclemods.net.au > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 12:00, Rob M wrote: > > > None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file > > name would made the obvious, but as this a topic about the 4 I guess > there > > could be some confusion. > > > > As for the recent RPi5 image you tried does that have any issues with > > screen resolution? Is it stuck on a single resolution? Does it detect the > > display it's attached to ? These issues, as mentioned previously, a game > > stopper for myself. If they aren't an issue could you say what > > kind-brand-model display you're using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023, 11:40 andy pugh, wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 00:27, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Andy's image was a success - I just did not know the passwords. > > > > > > I mentioned it in a previous message, but it is cnc / cnc > > > > > > -- > > > atp > > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > > lunatics." > > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Emc-developers mailing list > > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-developers mailing list > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
>None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file Well yes they are. Andy and Steffan are using pi5 variant of my image which is used for the 2.9.1 release from here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_q0Ra-27ZDOhquvq179beUZQNVlex1f/view?usp=sharing Filename (with rpi-5 in it): rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz It was built for the Pi 5's BCM2712 board. Username: cnc Password: cnc to finalise the installation (wifi, password , locale etc) type: sudo menu-config If the screen resolution is not right, it should be able to be fixed with a parameter in one of the pi's config files. I have just completed and tested a 2.9.2 installer for X86 on Debian 12.4. I managed to bypass the raspberry-firmware installation bug in earlier versions (Inherited from Debian) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nw0dGt5aZXVo8k68lLf4N_nzc0wTczAg/view?usp=sharing I will also rebuild the images for the Pi4 and Pi5, but I am kernelled out for today! Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 12:00, Rob M wrote: > None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file > name would made the obvious, but as this a topic about the 4 I guess there > could be some confusion. > > As for the recent RPi5 image you tried does that have any issues with > screen resolution? Is it stuck on a single resolution? Does it detect the > display it's attached to ? These issues, as mentioned previously, a game > stopper for myself. If they aren't an issue could you say what > kind-brand-model display you're using ? > > > > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023, 11:40 andy pugh, wrote: > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 00:27, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers > > wrote: > > > > > Andy's image was a success - I just did not know the passwords. > > > > I mentioned it in a previous message, but it is cnc / cnc > > > > -- > > atp > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > lunatics." > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-developers mailing list > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file name would made the obvious, but as this a topic about the 4 I guess there could be some confusion. As for the recent RPi5 image you tried does that have any issues with screen resolution? Is it stuck on a single resolution? Does it detect the display it's attached to ? These issues, as mentioned previously, a game stopper for myself. If they aren't an issue could you say what kind-brand-model display you're using ? On Sat, 30 Dec 2023, 11:40 andy pugh, wrote: > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 00:27, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers > wrote: > > > Andy's image was a success - I just did not know the passwords. > > I mentioned it in a previous message, but it is cnc / cnc > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 00:27, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: > Andy's image was a success - I just did not know the passwords. I mentioned it in a previous message, but it is cnc / cnc -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Hello, Andy's image was a success - I just did not know the passwords. > General use for Linuxcnc > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ve6LismgxL0OfYufkeU1Z0hzdWhbf_WJ/view?usp=sharing does not boot on my RPi5 - gets the same USB errors and the missing device tree as reported for the 2.9.1 RPI version our documentation references. > A complete development image for the Litexcnc project, includes OpenOCD, > oss-cad-suite and some other bits and pieces as required, previously this > link was only shared on the github page for the project > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l9dldTeoRwV8Ma3ljQCWFn-8pFGjuIot/view?usp=sharing Not tried. > > > Let me look to see what I have. > > > > Try this one > > rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz Boots very fast into the Login screen. Also the change to the ascii terminal with CTRL-ALT-F1 and back with ALT-F7 is fine. I recall to have set Login data in the RPi imager but did not find them to work. Is there a default password I should know about? Looked into https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html but that did not help me. Many thanks! Steffen ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
The kernel that has been used previously on the RPi4 has worked fine on the 5. The Foundation images for ALL versions of the RPi used the same kernel, I've booted the same kernel version on the Rpi4 and 5 so to say "solid preempt_rt kernel for the Pi5 which has not been possible previously" is not correct, as I've used the same kernel version and patches on both the 4 & 5 (tho built suit each platform), the bootloader decides which kernel image to boot based on the name of the kernel image file. If you need to remove-add-customise anything from the images you can mount them and then use qemu to chroot into the image and do what you need to do, this is how the bulk of the image is created. This I've mentioned before via email. Here are a few images I've done some post build "polishing" when installing the desktop I used xfce task as this installs a little more, mainly the network manager. General use for Linuxcnc https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ve6LismgxL0OfYufkeU1Z0hzdWhbf_WJ/view?usp=sharing A complete development image for the Litexcnc project, includes OpenOCD, oss-cad-suite and some other bits and pieces as required, previously this link was only shared on the github page for the project https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l9dldTeoRwV8Ma3ljQCWFn-8pFGjuIot/view?usp=sharing On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 6:03 AM andy pugh wrote: > On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 at 17:56, andy pugh wrote: > > > Let me look to see what I have. > > Try this one > rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz > > Raspi-imager can work directly with .xz files, no need to expand. > > Note that you need to use menu-config to set up the Wifi. > > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 at 17:56, andy pugh wrote: > Let me look to see what I have. Try this one rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz Raspi-imager can work directly with .xz files, no need to expand. Note that you need to use menu-config to set up the Wifi. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 03:53, andy pugh wrote: > That's odd. I am replying to this email on _my_ Pi5 and it works fine. > I can't remember the exact details of how I got here, Looking further, almost certainly not with the image from linuxcnc.org/iso as that was built a month before the timestamp of the kernel that I am using. Let me look to see what I have. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 02:23, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: > I just went for it and it does not work for the RPi5 - stating that the > device tree would not be found and that the bcm2712-rpi-5-b.dtb cannot be > found. That's odd. I am replying to this email on _my_ Pi5 and it works fine. I can't remember the exact details of how I got here, but it seems to be the LinuxCNC image that Rod built, as it is username cnc and password cnc (and I don't do that). Also the kernel build timestamp is in the AEST timezone. The latency is pretty decent. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Hello, That was quite a thread I have triggered, feels a bit like the Debian mailing lists :) > Von: "andy pugh" > Why do people keep reinventing this particular wheel? We distribute a > Pi SD card image via www.linuxcnc.org. I just went for it and it does not work for the RPi5 - stating that the device tree would not be found and that the bcm2712-rpi-5-b.dtb cannot be found. The noisy fan was likely a consequence. The system the loops over that message and does not come up. This is the 2.9.1 version. These kind of hardware dependencies I expect to also find for other small boards, so I would not mind to get some confidence to compile the RT preempt kernel on various platforms. I'll see how far I get without cross-compiling. We would then add a section somewhere in our documentation how to compile the RT kernel whenever that is not provided by the hardware vendor. Best, Steffen ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
>When Rod and myself were discussing the building the building of images we >had different ideas as to what was required, I opted for a more complete >desktop where Rod just went for "what was required", although I did >uninstall libreoffice to reduce download size. I also included the "gvfs" >stuff, to make it easier to connect via sftp from the file manager to >different machines. I didn't push the issue as Rod is the more Senior >member, so what Rod went for was great, I just kept doing things my way for >personal use. I don't think I am senior to anybody. I just decided to make installers for the pi and for x86 as I knew enough to achieve that. I thought it would reduce the workload for the release team. At that time there was nothing available for the Pi4. Unlike others, I kept within the limits that would allow me to do PR's to Linuxcnc as that was my goal. I did not know of an easy way to exclude OpenOffice on the Pi. So it's included. But it is excluded from the x86 version (by somebody else before I picked it up) I personally think it's a waste of time to be discussing alternative distributions. Our build process does not currently support such an approach. Where were you all when Andy was working his backside off on his own to get this released? Wouldn't that have been the time to get involved? The release team has spoken. Let's all get behind it. In the absence of a current package in any version of Debian, there are 3 ways to get a packaged version of Linuxcnc. 1. Use the Raspberry Pi Image 2. Use the X86 live installer 3. Use the new scripted install mentioned in the docs. When I get some time, I will rebuild the pi and live installers. I need to be running Debian 12.4 before building it so it packages a current version of Debian so i need to reformat something. The good news is Preempt_RT 6.1.69 was released today and that kernel was released into the Pi kernel on 21 December so finally we can build a solid preempt_rt kernel for the Pi5 which has not been possible previously. I don't even own a Pi5. There is no reason why you can't fork my installer and do something constructive. Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 at 18:53, Daniel Hiepler wrote: > Vom: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 12:27:41 +1100 > > > > Linuxcnc only really needs one image, it's not really meant to be a > General > > Purpose Distro, > > That's debatable. A lot of projects offer various images for different > purposes (e.g. retropi has images optimized for different Pi revisions). > Some even don't provide images at all but just an installscript that works > with multiple distros (e.g. pi hole). > > If you mean that there's no urgent need since there are more important > issues with linuxcnc currently, I'd strongly agree. > > > > that is the image that has all that is required to get up > > and going. Anything else may cause confusion, as I've noticed some people > > can be a bit adverse to reading information or there can be a language > > issue. > > Although I found some info a bit hard to find/scattered but generally I > would avoid optimizing for documentation size. > Sure it's nice to have a generalized default image to get 95% of use cases > up and running quickly/not optimized, but I don't see "confusion" as a > valid reason to never provide options. > > > > > A developer will be able to get all the bits & pieces they need. > > Sure, i was just tired of doing that process manually so I automated the > setup of the buildchain, git clone and all mumbo jumbo. > > > > In my opinion an image without a UI doesn't make much sense for Linuxcnc. > > I think the opposite is true: A machine controller (firmware) providing a > realtime environment doesn't make much sense to run Xorg + fullblown DE (+ > browser) along with it, > while at the same time caring about latency benchmarks. > The only reason I see is making a compromise for people to get up and > running quickly and not requiring to setup server + client separatly. (I.e. > the "RPi way" to just boot an SD card image and get going). > > But I can tell from personal experience that running milltask + rtapi_app > on a system without UI makes A LOT of sense. > > > > And "normal" & "minimal" are quite subjective. > > They were just examples for different flavours of images. > > > > uninstall libreoffice to reduce download size. I also included the "gvfs" > > Well I know we live in a world were multi-million dollar machines are run > from some default $99.95 OS (*cough*windows*cough*), so I wouldn't be > surprised to find modern CNC controlling firmware offering a Netflix > client... or an office suite. Personally, I wouldn't call such a thing a > sane default. > > > > member, so what Rod went for was great, I just kept doing things my way > for > > personal use. > > Same with my rpi-cookstrap config to build a self-bootstrapping linuxcnc > pi image. > I just thought I'd share it in case others don't
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Vom: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 12:27:41 +1100 > Linuxcnc only really needs one image, it's not really meant to be a General > Purpose Distro, That's debatable. A lot of projects offer various images for different purposes (e.g. retropi has images optimized for different Pi revisions). Some even don't provide images at all but just an installscript that works with multiple distros (e.g. pi hole). If you mean that there's no urgent need since there are more important issues with linuxcnc currently, I'd strongly agree. > that is the image that has all that is required to get up > and going. Anything else may cause confusion, as I've noticed some people > can be a bit adverse to reading information or there can be a language > issue. Although I found some info a bit hard to find/scattered but generally I would avoid optimizing for documentation size. Sure it's nice to have a generalized default image to get 95% of use cases up and running quickly/not optimized, but I don't see "confusion" as a valid reason to never provide options. > A developer will be able to get all the bits & pieces they need. Sure, i was just tired of doing that process manually so I automated the setup of the buildchain, git clone and all mumbo jumbo. > In my opinion an image without a UI doesn't make much sense for Linuxcnc. I think the opposite is true: A machine controller (firmware) providing a realtime environment doesn't make much sense to run Xorg + fullblown DE (+ browser) along with it, while at the same time caring about latency benchmarks. The only reason I see is making a compromise for people to get up and running quickly and not requiring to setup server + client separatly. (I.e. the "RPi way" to just boot an SD card image and get going). But I can tell from personal experience that running milltask + rtapi_app on a system without UI makes A LOT of sense. > And "normal" & "minimal" are quite subjective. They were just examples for different flavours of images. > uninstall libreoffice to reduce download size. I also included the "gvfs" Well I know we live in a world were multi-million dollar machines are run from some default $99.95 OS (*cough*windows*cough*), so I wouldn't be surprised to find modern CNC controlling firmware offering a Netflix client... or an office suite. Personally, I wouldn't call such a thing a sane default. > member, so what Rod went for was great, I just kept doing things my way for > personal use. Same with my rpi-cookstrap config to build a self-bootstrapping linuxcnc pi image. I just thought I'd share it in case others don't feel like cross compiling. (You wouldn't need to run it as it's just a collection of bash scripts that could be run manually or serve as documentation). Regards DH > > On Fri, Dec 29, 2023 at 11:40 AM Daniel Hiepler > wrote: > > > Vom: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 23:02:26 + > > > > > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 14:07, Daniel Hiepler > > > wrote:oot I had no more Wifi and (worse) > > > the ventilator was a max > > > > > > > > I encountered similar problems and decided to build my own kernel. I > > created a "fire & forget" bash script to build an image from the ground up > > and compiles linuxcnc+rt kernel on the pi: > > > > > > Why do people keep reinventing this particular wheel? We distribute a > > > Pi SD card image via www.linuxcnc.org. > > > > I wouldn't call it "reinventing the wheel" since it's quite a different > > approach without cross compiling and better customization options. I use a > > minimal kernel config and you can make it build an image without Xorg and > > linuxcnc --with-x=no. > > > > Also, the image wouldn't boot on the Rpi4 at the time I tried it. > > > > > > > > > If there is something about it that you don't like, then make a change > > > request, rather than dividing the effort. > > > > It would be nice to have builds of multiple Rpi images (normal, minimal, > > developer, without UI etc.) but it would take a lot more effort than it > > took for this. > > > > > > > > Regards > > -- > > Daniel Hiepler > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-developers mailing list > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers -- Daniel Hiepler ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Linuxcnc only really needs one image, it's not really meant to be a General Purpose Distro, that is the image that has all that is required to get up and going. Anything else may cause confusion, as I've noticed some people can be a bit adverse to reading information or there can be a language issue. A developer will be able to get all the bits & pieces they need. In my opinion an image without a UI doesn't make much sense for Linuxcnc. And "normal" & "minimal" are quite subjective. When Rod and myself were discussing the building the building of images we had different ideas as to what was required, I opted for a more complete desktop where Rod just went for "what was required", although I did uninstall libreoffice to reduce download size. I also included the "gvfs" stuff, to make it easier to connect via sftp from the file manager to different machines. I didn't push the issue as Rod is the more Senior member, so what Rod went for was great, I just kept doing things my way for personal use. On Fri, Dec 29, 2023 at 11:40 AM Daniel Hiepler wrote: > Vom: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 23:02:26 + > > > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 14:07, Daniel Hiepler > > wrote:oot I had no more Wifi and (worse) > > the ventilator was a max > > > > > > I encountered similar problems and decided to build my own kernel. I > created a "fire & forget" bash script to build an image from the ground up > and compiles linuxcnc+rt kernel on the pi: > > > > Why do people keep reinventing this particular wheel? We distribute a > > Pi SD card image via www.linuxcnc.org. > > I wouldn't call it "reinventing the wheel" since it's quite a different > approach without cross compiling and better customization options. I use a > minimal kernel config and you can make it build an image without Xorg and > linuxcnc --with-x=no. > > Also, the image wouldn't boot on the Rpi4 at the time I tried it. > > > > > If there is something about it that you don't like, then make a change > > request, rather than dividing the effort. > > It would be nice to have builds of multiple Rpi images (normal, minimal, > developer, without UI etc.) but it would take a lot more effort than it > took for this. > > > > Regards > -- > Daniel Hiepler > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Vom: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 23:02:26 + > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 14:07, Daniel Hiepler > wrote:oot I had no more Wifi and (worse) > the ventilator was a max > > > > I encountered similar problems and decided to build my own kernel. I > > created a "fire & forget" bash script to build an image from the ground up > > and compiles linuxcnc+rt kernel on the pi: > > Why do people keep reinventing this particular wheel? We distribute a > Pi SD card image via www.linuxcnc.org. I wouldn't call it "reinventing the wheel" since it's quite a different approach without cross compiling and better customization options. I use a minimal kernel config and you can make it build an image without Xorg and linuxcnc --with-x=no. Also, the image wouldn't boot on the Rpi4 at the time I tried it. > If there is something about it that you don't like, then make a change > request, rather than dividing the effort. It would be nice to have builds of multiple Rpi images (normal, minimal, developer, without UI etc.) but it would take a lot more effort than it took for this. Regards -- Daniel Hiepler ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests -first impressions
On 12/28/23 18:03, andy pugh wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 14:07, Daniel Hiepler wrote:oot I had no more Wifi and (worse) the ventilator was a max I encountered similar problems and decided to build my own kernel. I created a "fire & forget" bash script to build an image from the ground up and compiles linuxcnc+rt kernel on the pi: Why do people keep reinventing this particular wheel? We distribute a Pi SD card image via www.linuxcnc.org. If there is something about it that you don't like, then make a change request, rather than dividing the effort. Not exactly Andy, 2.9.2 will probably run my stuff just fine but I enjoy running the bleeding edge, makes me feel like I'm contributing in some small way to the quality of the code going out the door, basically playing the part of the canary in a cage in a coal mine. But generally, you guys are so good that in 20 years I've only reported 3 gotcha's. That, compared to what Redmond does, is legendary and every one of you should be proud it. Take care, all of you, stay warm and well. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Fri, Dec 29, 2023 at 10:05 AM andy pugh wrote: > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 14:07, Daniel Hiepler > wrote:oot I had no more Wifi and (worse) > the ventilator was a max > > > > I encountered similar problems and decided to build my own kernel. I > created a "fire & forget" bash script to build an image from the ground up > and compiles linuxcnc+rt kernel on the pi: > > Why do people keep reinventing this particular wheel? We distribute a > Pi SD card image via www.linuxcnc.org. > > For the RPi4 I have no idea, it works, maybe some users expect an image that is exactly like The Foundation images. There are a few differences, like the location of config.txt, locales can be a hit and miss trying to set them up, even when using the supplied menu-config utility. For the RPi5 the biggest issue is the display, for whatever reason when used with an RPi5 it appears the EDID information is not being read from the display\monior\clay-tablet\slate\cave-wall or whatever the user has connected up or there could be some "special sauce being missed". I tried a couple of different fixes, most related to the RPi4 as there was not a lot regarding this on the RPi5 and "non foundation images". This has been mentioned a few times on the forum. The solution I used was a "foundation image", compiled a suitable kernel and then built Linuxcnc packages from source. As is my preference I installed an XFCE desktop and used raspi-config to change from Wayland to X as the Wayland compatibility layer for X I found some what slow. Unfortunately due to no SPI driver for the RPi5 and not wanting to starting ripping things apart in the Mill's control box to get access to my mesa ethernet hardware the little Rpi5 is resting. Tho I do have a PCIe NVME board to try out. Tho I will say it is quiet the beast and does compile a kernel and Linuxcnc at quite a good clip, that's just with the SD card, I suspect other storage mediums may improve the "rate of clip". If there is something about it that you don't like, then make a change > request, rather than dividing the effort. > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 14:07, Daniel Hiepler wrote:oot I had no more Wifi and (worse) the ventilator was a max > > I encountered similar problems and decided to build my own kernel. I created > a "fire & forget" bash script to build an image from the ground up and > compiles linuxcnc+rt kernel on the pi: Why do people keep reinventing this particular wheel? We distribute a Pi SD card image via www.linuxcnc.org. If there is something about it that you don't like, then make a change request, rather than dividing the effort. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests-first impressions
The odroid has been running fine all year, no need to do anything. Maybe I wasn't clear, the J was retired a while ago when I started using the Odroid. I now have 2 options for the "roll my own" EPP board, the HP T610 plus or the retired J. There is no issue with Odroid. It is fine. On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 11:00 PM Rod Webster wrote: > >Or a J dual core celeron > >board that gathering dust after jumping onto > >the Odroid bandwagon. > I don't think this is insurmountable. I would build the 6.6 kernel and > install the R8125-dkms network driver. It should be fine. > > I do have a happy Odroid except its running ethercat (on Bullseye) rather > than Mesa which will have better network performance. > > Rod Webster > *1300 896 832* > +61 435 765 611 > Vehicle Modifications Network > www.vehiclemods.net.au > > > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 21:46, andy pugh wrote: > > > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 03:24, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > All packages are up to date. > > > W: Skipping acquire of configured file '2.9-rt/source/Sources' as > > > repository 'https://www.linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease' does not seem > > > to provide it (sources.list entry misspelt?) > > > > There isn't a 2.9-rt for Pi, only a 2.9-uspace. > > You can remove 2.9-rt from the sources.list.d if that message bothers > you. > > > > -- > > atp > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > lunatics." > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-developers mailing list > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Vom: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 01:55:44 +0100 > Then I installed a regular arm64-rt kernel but that then ruined the RPi > setup, so after a reboot I had no more Wifi and (worse) the ventilator was a > max I encountered similar problems and decided to build my own kernel. I created a "fire & forget" bash script to build an image from the ground up and compiles linuxcnc+rt kernel on the pi: https://github.com/heeplr/linuxcncpi This might provide a hassle free path to a working pi image. (Works for me™). By default, it is downloading the latest raspbian, mount it and modify it to set it up & compile kernel + linuxcnc on the first login. It should work for the rpi5 aswell. Kernel and patch version are set in the head of the buildscript https://github.com/heeplr/linuxcncpi/blob/dev/scripts/compile-rt-kernel and uses patch version 6.1.46-rt14-rc1 by default, which was the most recent at the time. Maybe it's useful for anyone. regards -- Daniel Hiepler ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests-first impressions
>Or a J dual core celeron >board that gathering dust after jumping onto >the Odroid bandwagon. I don't think this is insurmountable. I would build the 6.6 kernel and install the R8125-dkms network driver. It should be fine. I do have a happy Odroid except its running ethercat (on Bullseye) rather than Mesa which will have better network performance. Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 21:46, andy pugh wrote: > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 03:24, gene heskett wrote: > > > All packages are up to date. > > W: Skipping acquire of configured file '2.9-rt/source/Sources' as > > repository 'https://www.linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease' does not seem > > to provide it (sources.list entry misspelt?) > > There isn't a 2.9-rt for Pi, only a 2.9-uspace. > You can remove 2.9-rt from the sources.list.d if that message bothers you. > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests-first impressions
On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 03:24, gene heskett wrote: > All packages are up to date. > W: Skipping acquire of configured file '2.9-rt/source/Sources' as > repository 'https://www.linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease' does not seem > to provide it (sources.list entry misspelt?) There isn't a 2.9-rt for Pi, only a 2.9-uspace. You can remove 2.9-rt from the sources.list.d if that message bothers you. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests-first impressions
The Pi image is forked from here https://github.com/pyavitz/rpi-img-builder It is based on the official Raspberry Pi kernel https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux (rpi-6.1-y branch ) with Debian Bookworm wrapped around it. It uses a cross compilation environment so it gets built on x86 hardware. It has a good scripting environment that allows us to install linuxcnc as part of the build process.. The download page desperately needs a paragraph outlining the username (cnc) and password (cnc) and the need to run sudo menu-config to complete the build. I have no idea where the source is for that page or I would do a PR. Builds for both the pi4b/400 and the pi5 are supported by setting the board parameter at build time. The Pi4 version supports the gpiod driver which is documented. https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/drivers/hal_gpio.html Preempt_rt patches are supported but the challenge here is always to match the kernel being built with the patched RT version. We can specify the commit to pull so we can match to the RT patch but currently, the latest kernels that have been patched have not been merged into the pi source. As far as spi and gpio on the pi5 go, that board was never in scope. It is up to the devs to devise appropriate drivers as its out of scope of the installer. Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 14:44, gene heskett wrote: > On 12/27/23 22:33, Rob M wrote: > > Gene are you after a PC image or a Pi image ? > rpi4 here. > > Or have you made a type with the amd64 bit ? > No, arm64. > > > > I must admit with the "role your image utility" rod uses the locale > things > > is a bit messy & seems to do what it wants. > > I've made images usingthe same method and it's felt a bit "hit & miss" > > getting the locale thing correct. Half the issue is a that you expect it > to > > work like an RPi image but it's not based on any of the RPi images by > > "The Foundation", tho the kernel and some utilities come from there there > > does seem to be some "magic sauce" missing. > > Yes they are very against anything realtime. Mention it the 3rd time and > get banned from thier forum for life. So when I first did this in about > late 2017 on an rpi3b, I built my own 4.19-rt kernel but had no clue how > to install it. So I pulled a tarball together that was only the lib and > /boot stuff from those 2 directories of the build, which I actually did > on the pi. The plain, no gzip tarball is about 28 megs, and I installed > it by mounting the sd-card in a reader, and using mc, copied the lib > subdir of the tarball to the /lib of the card, and the same with the > /boot stuff. Put the card back in the pi's socket, it booted my kernel & > ran that way till the rpi4 came out, 2 years or so. Since I do my > building on an SSD, much faster than the SD card and it mounted to the > rpi4 with a usb to sata cable, installing on the rpi4 was essentially a > wash, rinse and repeat but much faster with the 4's usb 3 sockets. That > was in Feb 2020. > > Its been running an updated master of linuxcnc since. And doing stuff > it could not do when assembled in Chicago in the late '40's. > But the image now on the card has the first 2.9 release and I'd like to > go back to master & continue with what I call the canary in the coal > mine duties for linuxcnc. When I get that done, trixie will probably be > out, and the buster on my 3 wintel machines is getting stale so I'll > bring them up to trixie, if I don't miss roll call first, a possibility > since my next b-day will be the 90th. Got hardware keeping me alive now, > pacemaker and a TAVR valve in my heart. 5 or 6 years left on each ;o)> > > > > On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 1:53 PM gene heskett > wrote: > > > >> On 12/27/23 20:18, andy pugh wrote: > >>> On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 01:15, andy pugh wrote: > >>> > > >> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_raspberry_pi_image > >>> > >>> Sorry, the link to the image is higher up the same page: > >>> > >> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_normal_download > >>> > >> Sorry, I went there and not wanting to waste the pi's card, I installed > >> zsync on this machine too, then copy/pasted the download line, but it > >> quickly failed: > >> gene@coyote:~$ zsync > >> https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso > >> failed on url > https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso > >> could not read control file from URL > >> https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso > >> > >> What do I do next? > >> > >> Thanks all > >> > >> Cheers, Gene Heskett. > >> -- > >> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > >>soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > >> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > >> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law > respectable. > >>- Louis D. Brandeis >
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests-first impressions
On 12/27/23 22:33, Rob M wrote: Gene are you after a PC image or a Pi image ? rpi4 here. Or have you made a type with the amd64 bit ? No, arm64. I must admit with the "role your image utility" rod uses the locale things is a bit messy & seems to do what it wants. I've made images usingthe same method and it's felt a bit "hit & miss" getting the locale thing correct. Half the issue is a that you expect it to work like an RPi image but it's not based on any of the RPi images by "The Foundation", tho the kernel and some utilities come from there there does seem to be some "magic sauce" missing. Yes they are very against anything realtime. Mention it the 3rd time and get banned from thier forum for life. So when I first did this in about late 2017 on an rpi3b, I built my own 4.19-rt kernel but had no clue how to install it. So I pulled a tarball together that was only the lib and /boot stuff from those 2 directories of the build, which I actually did on the pi. The plain, no gzip tarball is about 28 megs, and I installed it by mounting the sd-card in a reader, and using mc, copied the lib subdir of the tarball to the /lib of the card, and the same with the /boot stuff. Put the card back in the pi's socket, it booted my kernel & ran that way till the rpi4 came out, 2 years or so. Since I do my building on an SSD, much faster than the SD card and it mounted to the rpi4 with a usb to sata cable, installing on the rpi4 was essentially a wash, rinse and repeat but much faster with the 4's usb 3 sockets. That was in Feb 2020. Its been running an updated master of linuxcnc since. And doing stuff it could not do when assembled in Chicago in the late '40's. But the image now on the card has the first 2.9 release and I'd like to go back to master & continue with what I call the canary in the coal mine duties for linuxcnc. When I get that done, trixie will probably be out, and the buster on my 3 wintel machines is getting stale so I'll bring them up to trixie, if I don't miss roll call first, a possibility since my next b-day will be the 90th. Got hardware keeping me alive now, pacemaker and a TAVR valve in my heart. 5 or 6 years left on each ;o)> On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 1:53 PM gene heskett wrote: On 12/27/23 20:18, andy pugh wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 01:15, andy pugh wrote: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_raspberry_pi_image Sorry, the link to the image is higher up the same page: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_normal_download Sorry, I went there and not wanting to waste the pi's card, I installed zsync on this machine too, then copy/pasted the download line, but it quickly failed: gene@coyote:~$ zsync https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso failed on url https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso could not read control file from URL https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso What do I do next? Thanks all Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests -first impressions
Gene are you after a PC image or a Pi image ? Or have you made a type with the amd64 bit ? I must admit with the "role your image utility" rod uses the locale things is a bit messy & seems to do what it wants. I've made images usingthe same method and it's felt a bit "hit & miss" getting the locale thing correct. Half the issue is a that you expect it to work like an RPi image but it's not based on any of the RPi images by "The Foundation", tho the kernel and some utilities come from there there does seem to be some "magic sauce" missing. On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 1:53 PM gene heskett wrote: > On 12/27/23 20:18, andy pugh wrote: > > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 01:15, andy pugh wrote: > > > >> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_raspberry_pi_image > > > > Sorry, the link to the image is higher up the same page: > > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_normal_download > > > Sorry, I went there and not wanting to waste the pi's card, I installed > zsync on this machine too, then copy/pasted the download line, but it > quickly failed: > gene@coyote:~$ zsync > https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso > failed on url https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso > could not read control file from URL > https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso > > What do I do next? > > Thanks all > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > -- > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. > - Louis D. Brandeis > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests-first impressions
On 12/27/23 21:49, Rod Webster wrote: @gene, you can probably set the locale to your environment by typing: sudo menu-config ISTR doing that at first boot, but did locales again anyway, set everything to en-UTF8. sudo apt update still finishes up with: All packages are up to date. W: Skipping acquire of configured file '2.9-rt/source/Sources' as repository 'https://www.linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease' does not seem to provide it (sources.list entry misspelt?) Can you post yours? I've looked at mine but don't see anything obvious. Thanks a bunch. Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 12:35, gene heskett wrote: On 12/27/23 16:50, Rod Webster wrote: You could try this image that contains preempt_rt for the Pi 5 (Linuxcnc 2.9.1) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_q0Ra-27ZDOhquvq179beUZQNVlex1f/view?usp=drive_link I don't have a Pi5 to test it but others say it worked. This is an updated image from our Raspberry Pi 4 one that is built for the newer Pi 5 CPU sudo apt upgrade should update to 2.9.2 I tried that with my rpi4 that is running your image, but I get this: W: GPG error: http://linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 3CB9FD148F374FEF E: The repository 'http://linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease' is not signed. N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default. N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user configuration details. W: Skipping acquire of configured file '2.9-rt/source/Sources' as repository 'https://www.linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease' does not seem to provide it (sources.list entry misspelt?) I say its installed, I've done the install twice, but here is an ls -l of: cnc@rpi4:/etc/apt$ ls -l trusted.gpg.d/ total 84 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11861 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bookworm-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11873 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bookworm-security-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 461 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bookworm-stable.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11861 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bullseye-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11873 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bullseye-security-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3403 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bullseye-stable.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11093 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-buster-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11105 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-buster-security-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1704 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-buster-stable.asc which has no sign of that key, so where did the installer put it? That key 3CB9FD148F374FEF has been installed, twice. But I can't find it. uname -a sys: Linux rpi4.coyote.den 6.1.54-rt15 #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT Wed Sep 20 20:36:44 AEST 2023 aarch64 GNU/Linux Its latency-test is not as good as my old 4.19 something build but its plenty good enough to move my lathe nicely. But from the message, I found it in /usr/share/keyrings and put a copy in trusted* and now its offering me 19 updates. Which were all security related from debian but locale complained: locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory How to fix that? I don't have an /etc/locale but I do have these: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root2996 Jul 13 14:07 locale.alias -rw-r--r-- 1 root root9431 Oct 17 04:24 locale.gen but it recommends I run locale-gen, which returns very quickly w/o errors and does not generate anything in the locale directory, so I'll delete the directory I made. Done. And after all this I'm still bumfuzzled. And can't update linuxcnc. Thanks & Happy New Year All. Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 06:46, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: On 12/27/23 13:38, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Dezember 2023 um 17:13 Uhr Von: "andy pugh" An: "EMC developers" Cc: "Steffen Möller" Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 at 15:20, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: My RPi5 arrived over Xmas and I just fired it up, was offered to install LinuxCNC directly from what we offer in Debian, and then ran latency tests. Graphics (as in video but also the extra art from your X interface when ALT-tabbing through your applications) have the most effect on the latency. I/O from the SD does not seem to affect it too much. The numbers you show are _awful_ though? It doesn't look like the LinuxCNC installation has installed the correct kernel. (I seem to recall that I had to do a fair bit of fiddling to make it happen, it's a Pi thing) Rebo
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests -first impressions
On 12/27/23 20:18, andy pugh wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 01:15, andy pugh wrote: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_raspberry_pi_image Sorry, the link to the image is higher up the same page: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_normal_download Sorry, I went there and not wanting to waste the pi's card, I installed zsync on this machine too, then copy/pasted the download line, but it quickly failed: gene@coyote:~$ zsync https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso failed on url https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso could not read control file from URL https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc_2.9.1-amd64.hybrid.iso What do I do next? Thanks all Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests -first impressions
@gene, you can probably set the locale to your environment by typing: sudo menu-config Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 12:35, gene heskett wrote: > On 12/27/23 16:50, Rod Webster wrote: > > You could try this image that contains preempt_rt for the Pi 5 (Linuxcnc > > 2.9.1) > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_q0Ra-27ZDOhquvq179beUZQNVlex1f/view?usp=drive_link > > I don't have a Pi5 to test it but others say it worked. > > > > This is an updated image from our Raspberry Pi 4 one that is built for > > the newer Pi 5 CPU > > sudo apt upgrade should update to 2.9.2 > > > I tried that with my rpi4 that is running your image, but I get this: > W: GPG error: http://linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease: The following > signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: > NO_PUBKEY 3CB9FD148F374FEF > E: The repository 'http://linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease' is not signed. > N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is > therefore disabled by default. > N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user > configuration details. > W: Skipping acquire of configured file '2.9-rt/source/Sources' as > repository 'https://www.linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease' does not seem > to provide it (sources.list entry misspelt?) > I say its installed, I've done the install twice, but here is an ls -l of: > cnc@rpi4:/etc/apt$ ls -l trusted.gpg.d/ > total 84 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11861 Mar 28 2023 > debian-archive-bookworm-automatic.asc > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11873 Mar 28 2023 > debian-archive-bookworm-security-automatic.asc > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 461 Mar 28 2023 > debian-archive-bookworm-stable.asc > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11861 Mar 28 2023 > debian-archive-bullseye-automatic.asc > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11873 Mar 28 2023 > debian-archive-bullseye-security-automatic.asc > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3403 Mar 28 2023 > debian-archive-bullseye-stable.asc > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11093 Mar 28 2023 > debian-archive-buster-automatic.asc > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11105 Mar 28 2023 > debian-archive-buster-security-automatic.asc > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1704 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-buster-stable.asc > > which has no sign of that key, so where did the installer put it? > > That key 3CB9FD148F374FEF has been installed, twice. But I can't find it. > > uname -a sys: > Linux rpi4.coyote.den 6.1.54-rt15 #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT Wed Sep 20 20:36:44 > AEST 2023 aarch64 GNU/Linux > > Its latency-test is not as good as my old 4.19 something build but its > plenty good enough to move my lathe nicely. > > But from the message, I found it in /usr/share/keyrings and put a copy > in trusted* and now its offering me 19 updates. Which were all security > related from debian but locale complained: > locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory > locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory > locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory > > How to fix that? I don't have an /etc/locale but I do have these: > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root2996 Jul 13 14:07 locale.alias > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root9431 Oct 17 04:24 locale.gen > but it recommends I run locale-gen, which returns very quickly w/o > errors and does not generate anything in the locale directory, so I'll > delete the directory I made. Done. > > And after all this I'm still bumfuzzled. And can't update linuxcnc. > > Thanks & Happy New Year All. > > > > Rod Webster > > *1300 896 832* > > +61 435 765 611 > > Vehicle Modifications Network > > www.vehiclemods.net.au > > > > > > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 06:46, Sebastian Kuzminsky > wrote: > > > >> On 12/27/23 13:38, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: > >>> > >>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Dezember 2023 um 17:13 Uhr > >>>> Von: "andy pugh" > >>>> An: "EMC developers" > >>>> Cc: "Steffen Möller" > >>>> Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests > >> - first impressions > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 at 15:20, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> My RPi5 arrived over Xmas and I just fired it up, was offered to > >> install LinuxCNC directly from what we offer in Debian, and then ran > >> latency tests. Graphics (as in video but also the extra art from your X > >> interface when ALT-tabbing through your applications) have
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests -first impressions
On 12/27/23 16:50, Rod Webster wrote: You could try this image that contains preempt_rt for the Pi 5 (Linuxcnc 2.9.1) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_q0Ra-27ZDOhquvq179beUZQNVlex1f/view?usp=drive_link I don't have a Pi5 to test it but others say it worked. This is an updated image from our Raspberry Pi 4 one that is built for the newer Pi 5 CPU sudo apt upgrade should update to 2.9.2 I tried that with my rpi4 that is running your image, but I get this: W: GPG error: http://linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 3CB9FD148F374FEF E: The repository 'http://linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease' is not signed. N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default. N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user configuration details. W: Skipping acquire of configured file '2.9-rt/source/Sources' as repository 'https://www.linuxcnc.org bookworm InRelease' does not seem to provide it (sources.list entry misspelt?) I say its installed, I've done the install twice, but here is an ls -l of: cnc@rpi4:/etc/apt$ ls -l trusted.gpg.d/ total 84 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11861 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bookworm-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11873 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bookworm-security-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 461 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bookworm-stable.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11861 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bullseye-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11873 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bullseye-security-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3403 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-bullseye-stable.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11093 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-buster-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11105 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-buster-security-automatic.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1704 Mar 28 2023 debian-archive-buster-stable.asc which has no sign of that key, so where did the installer put it? That key 3CB9FD148F374FEF has been installed, twice. But I can't find it. uname -a sys: Linux rpi4.coyote.den 6.1.54-rt15 #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT Wed Sep 20 20:36:44 AEST 2023 aarch64 GNU/Linux Its latency-test is not as good as my old 4.19 something build but its plenty good enough to move my lathe nicely. But from the message, I found it in /usr/share/keyrings and put a copy in trusted* and now its offering me 19 updates. Which were all security related from debian but locale complained: locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory How to fix that? I don't have an /etc/locale but I do have these: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root2996 Jul 13 14:07 locale.alias -rw-r--r-- 1 root root9431 Oct 17 04:24 locale.gen but it recommends I run locale-gen, which returns very quickly w/o errors and does not generate anything in the locale directory, so I'll delete the directory I made. Done. And after all this I'm still bumfuzzled. And can't update linuxcnc. Thanks & Happy New Year All. Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 06:46, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: On 12/27/23 13:38, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Dezember 2023 um 17:13 Uhr Von: "andy pugh" An: "EMC developers" Cc: "Steffen Möller" Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 at 15:20, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: My RPi5 arrived over Xmas and I just fired it up, was offered to install LinuxCNC directly from what we offer in Debian, and then ran latency tests. Graphics (as in video but also the extra art from your X interface when ALT-tabbing through your applications) have the most effect on the latency. I/O from the SD does not seem to affect it too much. The numbers you show are _awful_ though? It doesn't look like the LinuxCNC installation has installed the correct kernel. (I seem to recall that I had to do a fair bit of fiddling to make it happen, it's a Pi thing) Rebooted with Linux version 6.1.0-rpi7-rpi-2712 (debian-ker...@lists.debian.org) (gcc-12 (Debian 12.2.0-14) 12.2.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.40) #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.1.63-1+rpt1 (2023-11-24) but do not see any relevant change. That's the wrong kernel: "PREEMPT" is not enough, you need "PREEMPT_RT" in the uname string. This is usually the difficult part of getting systems with out-of-tree vendor-specific kernels to work well with LinuxCNC. -- Sebastian Kuzminsky ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Has anyone had a chance to look into the SPI issue with the RPi5 ? I've thrown mine back into it's box and a random location on shelf as ATM it's kinda useless for what I wanted it for. On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 12:19 PM andy pugh wrote: > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 01:15, andy pugh wrote: > > > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_raspberry_pi_image > > Sorry, the link to the image is higher up the same page: > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_normal_download > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 01:15, andy pugh wrote: > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_raspberry_pi_image Sorry, the link to the image is higher up the same page: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_normal_download -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 00:58, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: > I looked through our documentation today but did not find anything beyond the > use of RPi GPIOs. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_raspberry_pi_image And (same page) http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_installing_on_raspbian_12 -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Thank you, Rod! Will definitely try that one. We need to find some official instructions for the RPi4/5 installation, I suggest. I looked through our documentation today but did not find anything beyond the use of RPi GPIOs. After Seb's comment on using the wrong kernel I had a bit of a facepalm moment - thank you, Seb! Then I installed a regular arm64-rt kernel but that then ruined the RPi setup, so after a reboot I had no more Wifi and (worse) the ventilator was a max, even though the same wrong stock kernel was booting after the reboot. Sounds like flashing a new SD card to me. And it also sounds like a guarantee to lose all our new LinuxCNC users on an RPi. We can certainly do a lot via our custom images for which we could come up with an RPi5 variant, but preferably we'd have someone in an official position to prepare the RPi5-rt kernels for everyone, as part of the Raspbian or Debian distribution, not just us for ourselves. Is there anyone on this list who would know whom to ask? Best, Steffen > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Dezember 2023 um 22:24 Uhr > Von: "Rod Webster" > An: "EMC developers" > Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - > first impressions > > You could try this image that contains preempt_rt for the Pi 5 (Linuxcnc > 2.9.1) > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_q0Ra-27ZDOhquvq179beUZQNVlex1f/view?usp=drive_link > I don't have a Pi5 to test it but others say it worked. > > This is an updated image from our Raspberry Pi 4 one that is built for > the newer Pi 5 CPU > sudo apt upgrade should update to 2.9.2 > > Rod Webster > *1300 896 832* > +61 435 765 611 > Vehicle Modifications Network > www.vehiclemods.net.au > > > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 06:46, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: > > > On 12/27/23 13:38, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: > > > > > >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Dezember 2023 um 17:13 Uhr > > >> Von: "andy pugh" > > >> An: "EMC developers" > > >> Cc: "Steffen Möller" > > >> Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests > > - first impressions > > >> > > >> On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 at 15:20, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> My RPi5 arrived over Xmas and I just fired it up, was offered to > > install LinuxCNC directly from what we offer in Debian, and then ran > > latency tests. Graphics (as in video but also the extra art from your X > > interface when ALT-tabbing through your applications) have the most effect > > on the latency. I/O from the SD does not seem to affect it too much. > > >> > > >> The numbers you show are _awful_ though? > > >> > > >> It doesn't look like the LinuxCNC installation has installed the > > >> correct kernel. (I seem to recall that I had to do a fair bit of > > >> fiddling to make it happen, it's a Pi thing) > > > > > > Rebooted with > > > Linux version 6.1.0-rpi7-rpi-2712 (debian-ker...@lists.debian.org) > > (gcc-12 (Debian 12.2.0-14) 12.2.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.40) > > #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.1.63-1+rpt1 (2023-11-24) > > > but do not see any relevant change. > > > > That's the wrong kernel: "PREEMPT" is not enough, you need "PREEMPT_RT" > > in the uname string. > > > > This is usually the difficult part of getting systems with out-of-tree > > vendor-specific kernels to work well with LinuxCNC. > > > > > > -- > > Sebastian Kuzminsky > > > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-developers mailing list > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
You could try this image that contains preempt_rt for the Pi 5 (Linuxcnc 2.9.1) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_q0Ra-27ZDOhquvq179beUZQNVlex1f/view?usp=drive_link I don't have a Pi5 to test it but others say it worked. This is an updated image from our Raspberry Pi 4 one that is built for the newer Pi 5 CPU sudo apt upgrade should update to 2.9.2 Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 06:46, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: > On 12/27/23 13:38, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: > > > >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Dezember 2023 um 17:13 Uhr > >> Von: "andy pugh" > >> An: "EMC developers" > >> Cc: "Steffen Möller" > >> Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests > - first impressions > >> > >> On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 at 15:20, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers > >> wrote: > >> > >>> My RPi5 arrived over Xmas and I just fired it up, was offered to > install LinuxCNC directly from what we offer in Debian, and then ran > latency tests. Graphics (as in video but also the extra art from your X > interface when ALT-tabbing through your applications) have the most effect > on the latency. I/O from the SD does not seem to affect it too much. > >> > >> The numbers you show are _awful_ though? > >> > >> It doesn't look like the LinuxCNC installation has installed the > >> correct kernel. (I seem to recall that I had to do a fair bit of > >> fiddling to make it happen, it's a Pi thing) > > > > Rebooted with > > Linux version 6.1.0-rpi7-rpi-2712 (debian-ker...@lists.debian.org) > (gcc-12 (Debian 12.2.0-14) 12.2.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.40) > #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.1.63-1+rpt1 (2023-11-24) > > but do not see any relevant change. > > That's the wrong kernel: "PREEMPT" is not enough, you need "PREEMPT_RT" > in the uname string. > > This is usually the difficult part of getting systems with out-of-tree > vendor-specific kernels to work well with LinuxCNC. > > > -- > Sebastian Kuzminsky > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On 12/27/23 13:38, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Dezember 2023 um 17:13 Uhr Von: "andy pugh" An: "EMC developers" Cc: "Steffen Möller" Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 at 15:20, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: My RPi5 arrived over Xmas and I just fired it up, was offered to install LinuxCNC directly from what we offer in Debian, and then ran latency tests. Graphics (as in video but also the extra art from your X interface when ALT-tabbing through your applications) have the most effect on the latency. I/O from the SD does not seem to affect it too much. The numbers you show are _awful_ though? It doesn't look like the LinuxCNC installation has installed the correct kernel. (I seem to recall that I had to do a fair bit of fiddling to make it happen, it's a Pi thing) Rebooted with Linux version 6.1.0-rpi7-rpi-2712 (debian-ker...@lists.debian.org) (gcc-12 (Debian 12.2.0-14) 12.2.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.40) #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.1.63-1+rpt1 (2023-11-24) but do not see any relevant change. That's the wrong kernel: "PREEMPT" is not enough, you need "PREEMPT_RT" in the uname string. This is usually the difficult part of getting systems with out-of-tree vendor-specific kernels to work well with LinuxCNC. -- Sebastian Kuzminsky ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Dezember 2023 um 17:13 Uhr > Von: "andy pugh" > An: "EMC developers" > Cc: "Steffen Möller" > Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - > first impressions > > On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 at 15:20, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers > wrote: > > > My RPi5 arrived over Xmas and I just fired it up, was offered to install > > LinuxCNC directly from what we offer in Debian, and then ran latency tests. > > Graphics (as in video but also the extra art from your X interface when > > ALT-tabbing through your applications) have the most effect on the latency. > > I/O from the SD does not seem to affect it too much. > > The numbers you show are _awful_ though? > > It doesn't look like the LinuxCNC installation has installed the > correct kernel. (I seem to recall that I had to do a fair bit of > fiddling to make it happen, it's a Pi thing) Rebooted with Linux version 6.1.0-rpi7-rpi-2712 (debian-ker...@lists.debian.org) (gcc-12 (Debian 12.2.0-14) 12.2.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.40) #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.1.63-1+rpt1 (2023-11-24) but do not see any relevant change. After fixing the process to a processor the max observed latency is reduced by a third (down to 23 million nanoseconds). That is with wifi, video and loads of I/O. No latencies observed as a regular user - so I am still excited about this new Pi. I just updated the firmware (the routine update could not do that because of a version conflict) and will then try again. Best, Steffen ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 at 15:20, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: > My RPi5 arrived over Xmas and I just fired it up, was offered to install > LinuxCNC directly from what we offer in Debian, and then ran latency tests. > Graphics (as in video but also the extra art from your X interface when > ALT-tabbing through your applications) have the most effect on the latency. > I/O from the SD does not seem to affect it too much. The numbers you show are _awful_ though? It doesn't look like the LinuxCNC installation has installed the correct kernel. (I seem to recall that I had to do a fair bit of fiddling to make it happen, it's a Pi thing) -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
