Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Alan C]

Mark, you have provoked a most interesting thread. A minefield of opinions! 
In the end it comes down to two things: (a) getting the car on the road 
again ASAP & (b) economics. The litigation route could take months. If you 
are to keep the car, an exchange unit (recon) with guarantee seems the best 
option. It is equivalent to having the existing gearbox repaired. To me a 
new box is just not on. If you are going to get rid of the car, find a S/H 
box, hopefully from a reliable scrapyard.


Best

Alan C


On May 29, 2016 11:12 AM, "Mark C" wrote:

While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback made
some odd noises and suddenly lit up what looked like every warning light 
on

the control panel. I pulled over and wound up getting it towed to the
nearest dealership. On Friday they gave me the bad news - at just 78,000
miles the CVT transmission was shot. Needs a complete replacement.

The shop that has the car quoted me $11,000 to replace the CVT with a new
unit and just under $10,000 for a factory re-manufactured one. My local
shop quoted me $7,700 for a Subaru remanufactured CVT. It might be more
since I don't know if that includes the 6% sale tax on CVT itself. A 
local

independent shop gave me a rough estimate of $4,400 for a used
one,installed. All of the places figure about $1000 labor, everything 
else

is the cost of parts plus sales tax on the parts.

The only firm estimates I have are the ones from the first place. I got
the news from them at 3 PM Friday, before the holiday weekend. The local
places are quoting typical rates, they have not even seen the car yet to
give me a firm estimate. I don't know the warranty on the used
transmission at this point either, just that it has 25K on it.

I do have a call into Subaru customer service and they have agreed to do 
a

review of this under their goodwill program, so maybe there will be some
relief there, but the car is out of warranty and no extended coverage.

My concern with a used CVT, though, is that they seem to be pretty 
complex

and high tech devices. I have heard that they are actually built in clean
rooms. So I'm wondering if pulling one off a wreck would be a good idea.

Any reason NOT to do a used CVT?  Thoughts would be appreciated. My first
task is getting the car towed back here next week.

Mark



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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Mark C]

The quotes for the remanufactured CVT are all for one from Subaru. FWIW, 
the independent shop told me ~8000 to put in a remanufactured unit, in 
the ball park with what the local to what the local dealer told me. The 
alternative is a used CVT - i.e. one pulled from a car in a junkyard.


I'm starting to think the used CVT route may not be a good one...


On 5/29/2016 11:20 AM, Zos Xavius wrote:

If its Subaru remanufactured its probably fine for what its worth. I would
only go with their rebuilds though. Warranty I wouldn't know. 6 months
sounds reasonable to me.
On May 29, 2016 11:18 AM, "Zos Xavius"  wrote:



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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Zos Xavius]

Swap it to a manual and then only have to worry about clutch plates. :)
On May 29, 2016 3:32 PM, "Mark C"  wrote:

> The quotes for the remanufactured CVT are all for one from Subaru. FWIW,
> the independent shop told me ~8000 to put in a remanufactured unit, in the
> ball park with what the local to what the local dealer told me. The
> alternative is a used CVT - i.e. one pulled from a car in a junkyard.
>
> I'm starting to think the used CVT route may not be a good one...
>
>
> On 5/29/2016 11:20 AM, Zos Xavius wrote:
>
>> If its Subaru remanufactured its probably fine for what its worth. I would
>> only go with their rebuilds though. Warranty I wouldn't know. 6 months
>> sounds reasonable to me.
>> On May 29, 2016 11:18 AM, "Zos Xavius"  wrote:
>>
>
>
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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Mark C]

Yeah - going with a remanufactued unit sounds like the best option and 
I'll be working with Subaru and the local dealer.


On 5/29/2016 11:23 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

I would avoid a used CVT. You could end up with another failure in short order. 
Go to a Subaru dealer and bug the company for some help on this. If they refuse 
look into lemon law relief. But I think you can get a new one through Subsru at 
a discounted price.

Paul via phone


On May 29, 2016, at 11:11 AM, Mark C  wrote:

While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback made some 
odd noises and suddenly lit up what looked like every warning light on the 
control panel. I pulled over and wound up getting it towed to the nearest 
dealership. On Friday they gave me the bad news - at just 78,000 miles the CVT 
transmission was shot. Needs a complete replacement.

The shop that has the car quoted me $11,000 to replace the CVT with a new unit 
and just under $10,000 for a factory re-manufactured one. My local shop quoted 
me $7,700 for a Subaru remanufactured CVT. It might be more since I don't know 
if that includes the 6% sale tax on CVT itself. A local independent shop gave 
me a rough estimate of $4,400 for a used one,installed. All of the places 
figure about $1000 labor, everything else is the cost of parts plus sales tax 
on the parts.

The only firm estimates I have are the ones from the first place. I got the 
news from them at 3 PM Friday, before the holiday weekend. The local places are 
quoting typical rates, they have not even seen the car yet to give me a firm 
estimate. I don't know the warranty on the used  transmission at this point 
either, just that it has 25K on it.

I do have a call into Subaru customer service and they have agreed to do a 
review of this under their goodwill program, so maybe there will be some relief 
there, but the car is out of warranty and no extended coverage.

My concern with a used CVT, though, is that they seem to be pretty complex and 
high tech devices. I have heard that they are actually built in clean rooms. So 
I'm wondering if pulling one off a wreck would be a good idea.

Any reason NOT to do a used CVT?  Thoughts would be appreciated. My first task 
is getting the car towed back here next week.

Mark





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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Mark C]

Thanks, Igor. Reading on the web, it sounds like some CVT's are having 
problems. The local mechanic I talked to mentions that NIssan had 
extended their warranty. Unfortunately Subaru has not done that.


The reliability issue is indeed a concern.  This literally just stopped 
working while driving down the highway. In SE Michigan not much of a 
problem but out in the boonies, not good.


Regarding installation - what I read is that the CVT is pretty much a 
closed system and it is not that difficult to install. But I do have 
concerns with a used unit breaking down without warning. And even if it 
has a decent warranty I have to pursue that through the local repair shop.


All things considered I'm thinking I'll go with the reman.

Mark


On 5/29/2016 12:52 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


Mark,

I do not know anything about Subaru's CVTs.
I've had somewhat extensive experience and learned about Nissan's CVTs
through the first-hand experience, numerous and very detailed 
conversations with mechanics and reading/searching for information 
online. I don't how that would apply to your case, - but I suspect the 
situation in the industry is very similar for different mass-product 
manufacturers.


Despite being in existence (in non-luxury models) for over 10 years, 
CVT remains being somewhat under-tested/under-designed in the sense of 
reliability and how well it is adapted to various driving conditions.

Nissan has had CVTs in many (most?) models in the past 5-8 (-10?) years.
Nissan had huge number of problems with various models. E.g. Rogue, 
that started in 2008, has had huge number of problems that Nissan was 
denying for long time. Ultimately, around 2011-2012, because of those 
problems, they have extended warranty on the CVT up to 125 Kmiles.
Throughout this period they had a bunch of "patches", "fixes" and 
other type of kludges introduced:

1. reprogramming of the firmware for the CVT
2. change in the physical design (or manufacturing/parts, ... - I am 
not sure exactly what was changed, as it is not disclosed)
3. addition of an additional cooling system -- if certain symptoms of 
overheating are observed.

And with all of those, - they are still experiencing problems.
Ours started showing various symptoms within the 1st year, and I was 
bringing it to the dealership it many times without any constructive 
diagnostics of the probelm from that point until the CVT completely 
failed
in 2013 (I couldn't drive from a stop sign.). I don't remember how 
many miles it had at that point, maybe 50-60K?
And the brand-new CVT is not completely symptom-free (although all 
those symptoms are sort of subtle "anomalies", and none of them are 
any types of failures.)


I've been told that a line of Nissan trucks (Titans, IIRC) has huge 
number of warranty repairs in the first 1-3 years.


A number of experienced and smart (non-dealer) mechanics refuse to 
deal with CVTs. The reasons are: 1. it's a complicated system, and 2. 
from what I understand (but I might be wrong), - Nissan does not 
release any information about repairs/rebuilding of CVTs. I suspect 
even dealership mechanics do not do any rebuilding of CVTs: they 
either replace CVTs, or they add those cooling systems as prescribed 
by the corporate Nissan.


It doesn't mean that a smart guy cannot figure things out (you know, 
people hacked more complicated electronic systems). But I would not 
expect an average Joe's Corner Shop to deal with that correctly.



A few other thoughts:
I assume that you've already checked that Subaru didn't issue any 
extended warranty for your model. Just in case, - I would google for 
your model and CVT, - to check if it is a frequently experienced 
problem. If it is, even if it is not an officially accepted problem, - 
you can try to push on your local dealer's mechanic shop (good luck 
with that!), and they might
give you some discounts, as Paul has suggested. It's a slim chance, - 
but might be worse trying. They might feel some guilt (har!) or have 
some non-obvous incentive to be nice to you.


If you travel long-distance (as opposed to local, in-city commute), - 
being sure that you wouldn't get stranded in the middle of nowhere 
could be strong enough reason not to go for the lowest cost, even if 
you can install 3 of those CVTs for the cost of one new.
And in case one of the warranties is significantly longer than 1 year, 
I would seriously consider that, even though I very seldom pay for any 
extra warranties.


Good luck!

Igor

PS. I like the performance and the feel of the CVT on Rogue, but I 
would do a very careful research about CVT reliability when I will be 
buying my next car.
And I am not keen on the idea of the shift-point emulation on top of 
the CVT. That's what Nissan does in some of the current models.

I think that is a fad that defeats the advantages of a CVT.



On May 29, 2016 11:12 AM, "Mark C" wrote:

While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback 
made
some odd noises and 

Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[mike wilson]

> On 29 May 2016 at 20:31 Mark C  wrote:
> 
> 
> The quotes for the remanufactured CVT are all for one from Subaru. FWIW, 
> the independent shop told me ~8000 to put in a remanufactured unit, in 
> the ball park with what the local to what the local dealer told me. The 
> alternative is a used CVT - i.e. one pulled from a car in a junkyard.
> 
> I'm starting to think the used CVT route may not be a good one...

Depends what you are going to do afterwards.  From a quick readaround, it seems
Subara has dropped the ball with its CVT and faults are pretty much guaranteed.
 Mostly, they are minor but require major surgery for rectification.  A cheap
replacement allows you to go inside and check, fix or pre-emptively deal with
those and you can then install and wave bye-bye.  Which is what I would be
doing.

> 
> 
> On 5/29/2016 11:20 AM, Zos Xavius wrote:
> > If its Subaru remanufactured its probably fine for what its worth. I would
> > only go with their rebuilds though. Warranty I wouldn't know. 6 months
> > sounds reasonable to me.
> > On May 29, 2016 11:18 AM, "Zos Xavius"  wrote:
> 
> 
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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Mark C]

Thanks, Paul - I had no idea that manufacturers did not make their own 
transmissions.


My initial contact with Subaru was positive so I am hoping to be able to 
work things out. After the first discussion I decided to move the car 
back here before taking up the issue. Aside from being significantly 
less expensive than the other dealer just in terms of their standard 
rate, I've been a long term customer of the local dealer.


Mark


On 5/29/2016 1:39 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

Based on what Igor said below, I would do some web research and find out who 
makes Subaru's CVT. It's not likely Subaru. Two or three companies make most of 
the world's transmissions, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nissan and 
Subaru use the same trans. If so, you can point to Nissan's extended warranty. 
Check NHTSA for owner complaints as well. I think you can make Subaru see the 
light. I'll ask around and see if there's any talk about this among the tech 
aware journalists.

Paul via phone


On May 29, 2016, at 12:52 PM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:


Mark,

I do not know anything about Subaru's CVTs.
I've had somewhat extensive experience and learned about Nissan's CVTs
through the first-hand experience, numerous and very detailed conversations 
with mechanics and reading/searching for information online. I don't how that 
would apply to your case, - but I suspect the situation in the industry is very 
similar for different mass-product manufacturers.

Despite being in existence (in non-luxury models) for over 10 years, CVT 
remains being somewhat under-tested/under-designed in the sense of reliability 
and how well it is adapted to various driving conditions.
Nissan has had CVTs in many (most?) models in the past 5-8 (-10?) years.
Nissan had huge number of problems with various models. E.g. Rogue, that 
started in 2008, has had huge number of problems that Nissan was denying for 
long time. Ultimately, around 2011-2012, because of those problems, they have 
extended warranty on the CVT up to 125 Kmiles.
Throughout this period they had a bunch of "patches", "fixes" and other type of 
kludges introduced:
1. reprogramming of the firmware for the CVT
2. change in the physical design (or manufacturing/parts, ... - I am not sure 
exactly what was changed, as it is not disclosed)
3. addition of an additional cooling system -- if certain symptoms of 
overheating are observed.
And with all of those, - they are still experiencing problems.
Ours started showing various symptoms within the 1st year, and I was bringing 
it to the dealership it many times without any constructive diagnostics of the 
probelm from that point until the CVT completely failed
in 2013 (I couldn't drive from a stop sign.). I don't remember how many miles 
it had at that point, maybe 50-60K?
And the brand-new CVT is not completely symptom-free (although all those symptoms are 
sort of subtle "anomalies", and none of them are any types of failures.)

I've been told that a line of Nissan trucks (Titans, IIRC) has huge number of 
warranty repairs in the first 1-3 years.

A number of experienced and smart (non-dealer) mechanics refuse to deal with 
CVTs. The reasons are: 1. it's a complicated system, and 2. from what I 
understand (but I might be wrong), - Nissan does not release any information 
about repairs/rebuilding of CVTs. I suspect even dealership mechanics do not do 
any rebuilding of CVTs: they either replace CVTs, or they add those cooling 
systems as prescribed by the corporate Nissan.

It doesn't mean that a smart guy cannot figure things out (you know, people 
hacked more complicated electronic systems). But I would not expect an average 
Joe's Corner Shop to deal with that correctly.


A few other thoughts:
I assume that you've already checked that Subaru didn't issue any extended 
warranty for your model. Just in case, - I would google for your model and CVT, 
- to check if it is a frequently experienced problem. If it is, even if it is 
not an officially accepted problem, - you can try to push on your local 
dealer's mechanic shop (good luck with that!), and they might
give you some discounts, as Paul has suggested. It's a slim chance, - but might 
be worse trying. They might feel some guilt (har!) or have some non-obvous 
incentive to be nice to you.

If you travel long-distance (as opposed to local, in-city commute), - being 
sure that you wouldn't get stranded in the middle of nowhere could be strong 
enough reason not to go for the lowest cost, even if you can install 3 of those 
CVTs for the cost of one new.
And in case one of the warranties is significantly longer than 1 year, I would 
seriously consider that, even though I very seldom pay for any extra warranties.

Good luck!

Igor

PS. I like the performance and the feel of the CVT on Rogue, but I would do a 
very careful research about CVT reliability when I will be buying my next car.
And I am not keen on the idea of the shift-point emulation on top of the CVT. 

Re: PESO - Golden Pavilion 2

[Mark C]

Classic image - the mirror like smooth water is great.

On 5/26/2016 7:29 AM, Eric Featherstone wrote:

One more from the Golden Pavilion


https://flic.kr/p/E16tZA
or
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18237407

Kyoto, Jan 2016

Pentax K-x, Tamron AF 17-50mm F2.8 XR Di-II LD
1/80s @ f/8, ISO640

Comments welcome.




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Re: PESO - A portrait of KS1341-D

[Mark C]

Really excellent.

On 5/25/2016 9:23 PM, Bruce Walker wrote:

Part of a cosplay shoot. KS1341-D is an android with plans to enslave the earth.

http://portfolio.brucemwalker.com/index/IB3m9_aENH9o

645Z, DFA645 55mm/2.8, f:8, 1/125th sec, 100 ISO;
Key light: 8.5" reflector with 30 degree grid, above-left.
Fill: 22" beauty dish with sock, left, feathered.

Model, styling: Kirstin Sabrina Dane ~ vintagealchemy.tumblr.com
Makeup, face painting: Coral Brandenburg ~ FB coralbrandenburg96

Comments welcome.




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OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Mark C]

While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback 
made some odd noises and suddenly lit up what looked like every warning 
light on the control panel. I pulled over and wound up getting it towed 
to the nearest dealership. On Friday they gave me the bad news - at just 
78,000 miles the CVT transmission was shot. Needs a complete replacement.


The shop that has the car quoted me $11,000 to replace the CVT with a 
new unit and just under $10,000 for a factory re-manufactured one. My 
local shop quoted me $7,700 for a Subaru remanufactured CVT. It might be 
more since I don't know if that includes the 6% sale tax on CVT itself. 
A local independent shop gave me a rough estimate of $4,400 for a used 
one,installed. All of the places figure about $1000 labor, everything 
else is the cost of parts plus sales tax on the parts.


The only firm estimates I have are the ones from the first place. I got 
the news from them at 3 PM Friday, before the holiday weekend. The local 
places are quoting typical rates, they have not even seen the car yet to 
give me a firm estimate. I don't know the warranty on the used  
transmission at this point either, just that it has 25K on it.


I do have a call into Subaru customer service and they have agreed to do 
a review of this under their goodwill program, so maybe there will be 
some relief there, but the car is out of warranty and no extended coverage.


My concern with a used CVT, though, is that they seem to be pretty 
complex and high tech devices. I have heard that they are actually built 
in clean rooms. So I'm wondering if pulling one off a wreck would be a 
good idea.


Any reason NOT to do a used CVT?  Thoughts would be appreciated. My 
first task is getting the car towed back here next week.


Mark





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PESO 2016 - 099 - 099

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

>From yesterday morning: 

  https://flic.kr/p/GHg8vZ
  
enjoy! 
G

The trouble with being punctual is that nobody's there to appreciate it.


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Re: PESO's

[Mark C]

Thanks, Rick - That gull was dropping was seemed to be  a bit of wood. 
It would drop it into the the water off shore, drop into the water to 
get the floating bit of wood and do it again. Over and over.


Mark

On 5/25/2016 5:57 PM, Rick Womer wrote:

Very nice set, especially the sparrow.

What's going on in the last one? Is the gull dropping a clam or mussel
to open it?

Rick
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Mark C  wrote:

Thanks, Jack.



On 5/15/2016 8:57 PM, Jack Davis wrote:

Nice catch, Mark C

J
   Sent from my iPhone


On May 15, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Mark C  wrote:

A few recent photos...

Chipping sparrow shot this afternoon:

http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/index.php/chipping-sparrow

   or on flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcassino/26432202434/

Bloodroot

http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/index.php/bloodroot-2016

   or on flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcassino/27008355695/

Flower and Foliage:

http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/index.php/flower-and-foliage

   or on flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcassino/2665110

POW

http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/index.php/PAD/may-5-2016

Industrial

http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/index.php/PAD/may-6-2016




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Re: PESO's

[Jack Davis]

Delightful mystery!

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 29, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Mark C  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Rick - That gull was dropping was seemed to be  a bit of wood. It 
> would drop it into the the water off shore, drop into the water to get the 
> floating bit of wood and do it again. Over and over.
> 
> Mark
> 
>> On 5/25/2016 5:57 PM, Rick Womer wrote:
>> Very nice set, especially the sparrow.
>> 
>> What's going on in the last one? Is the gull dropping a clam or mussel
>> to open it?
>> 
>> Rick
>> http://photo.net/photos/RickW
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Mark C  wrote:
>>> Thanks, Jack.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 5/15/2016 8:57 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
 Nice catch, Mark C
 
 J
   Sent from my iPhone
 
> On May 15, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Mark C  wrote:
> 
> A few recent photos...
> 
> Chipping sparrow shot this afternoon:
> 
> http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/index.php/chipping-sparrow
> 
>   or on flickr:
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcassino/26432202434/
> 
> Bloodroot
> 
> http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/index.php/bloodroot-2016
> 
>   or on flickr:
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcassino/27008355695/
> 
> Flower and Foliage:
> 
> http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/index.php/flower-and-foliage
> 
>   or on flickr:
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcassino/2665110
> 
> POW
> 
> http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/index.php/PAD/may-5-2016
> 
> Industrial
> 
> http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/index.php/PAD/may-6-2016
> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Zos Xavius]

Jesus that's expensive for a transmission swap. I didn't know the outbacks
were using CVTs now. I wonder why it would fail so early. The Prius CVT can
hit 200k pretty easily.
On May 29, 2016 11:12 AM, "Mark C"  wrote:

> While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback made
> some odd noises and suddenly lit up what looked like every warning light on
> the control panel. I pulled over and wound up getting it towed to the
> nearest dealership. On Friday they gave me the bad news - at just 78,000
> miles the CVT transmission was shot. Needs a complete replacement.
>
> The shop that has the car quoted me $11,000 to replace the CVT with a new
> unit and just under $10,000 for a factory re-manufactured one. My local
> shop quoted me $7,700 for a Subaru remanufactured CVT. It might be more
> since I don't know if that includes the 6% sale tax on CVT itself. A local
> independent shop gave me a rough estimate of $4,400 for a used
> one,installed. All of the places figure about $1000 labor, everything else
> is the cost of parts plus sales tax on the parts.
>
> The only firm estimates I have are the ones from the first place. I got
> the news from them at 3 PM Friday, before the holiday weekend. The local
> places are quoting typical rates, they have not even seen the car yet to
> give me a firm estimate. I don't know the warranty on the used
> transmission at this point either, just that it has 25K on it.
>
> I do have a call into Subaru customer service and they have agreed to do a
> review of this under their goodwill program, so maybe there will be some
> relief there, but the car is out of warranty and no extended coverage.
>
> My concern with a used CVT, though, is that they seem to be pretty complex
> and high tech devices. I have heard that they are actually built in clean
> rooms. So I'm wondering if pulling one off a wreck would be a good idea.
>
> Any reason NOT to do a used CVT?  Thoughts would be appreciated. My first
> task is getting the car towed back here next week.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Paul Stenquist]

I would avoid a used CVT. You could end up with another failure in short order. 
Go to a Subaru dealer and bug the company for some help on this. If they refuse 
look into lemon law relief. But I think you can get a new one through Subsru at 
a discounted price.

Paul via phone

> On May 29, 2016, at 11:11 AM, Mark C  wrote:
> 
> While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback made 
> some odd noises and suddenly lit up what looked like every warning light on 
> the control panel. I pulled over and wound up getting it towed to the nearest 
> dealership. On Friday they gave me the bad news - at just 78,000 miles the 
> CVT transmission was shot. Needs a complete replacement.
> 
> The shop that has the car quoted me $11,000 to replace the CVT with a new 
> unit and just under $10,000 for a factory re-manufactured one. My local shop 
> quoted me $7,700 for a Subaru remanufactured CVT. It might be more since I 
> don't know if that includes the 6% sale tax on CVT itself. A local 
> independent shop gave me a rough estimate of $4,400 for a used one,installed. 
> All of the places figure about $1000 labor, everything else is the cost of 
> parts plus sales tax on the parts.
> 
> The only firm estimates I have are the ones from the first place. I got the 
> news from them at 3 PM Friday, before the holiday weekend. The local places 
> are quoting typical rates, they have not even seen the car yet to give me a 
> firm estimate. I don't know the warranty on the used  transmission at this 
> point either, just that it has 25K on it.
> 
> I do have a call into Subaru customer service and they have agreed to do a 
> review of this under their goodwill program, so maybe there will be some 
> relief there, but the car is out of warranty and no extended coverage.
> 
> My concern with a used CVT, though, is that they seem to be pretty complex 
> and high tech devices. I have heard that they are actually built in clean 
> rooms. So I'm wondering if pulling one off a wreck would be a good idea.
> 
> Any reason NOT to do a used CVT?  Thoughts would be appreciated. My first 
> task is getting the car towed back here next week.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: GESO: Stairwell

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Thanks, Mark!

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Mark C  wrote:
> #1 and #3 are my faves - I'd go with the more abstract #1 of the pair. The
> somewhat irregular edge of the stairs contrasts with the spiral shape. Very
> nice!
>
>
> On 5/26/2016 1:54 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:
>>
>> A small gallery. only 3 images.
>>
>> Our hotel in Athens had an interesting stairwell opposite the elevators.
>> I
>> liked the geometry and the repetition.  I'm not sure whether I want to
>> make
>> it mor of an abstract or an archetectrual documentary.
>>
>> Here is what I have so far:
>> http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1091371
>>
>> Thanks for looking, and thnks in advance for any comments, criticisms or
>> suggestions you might care to offer.
>>
>> Dan Matyola
>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>
>
>
>
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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Igor PDML-StR]

Mark,

I do not know anything about Subaru's CVTs.
I've had somewhat extensive experience and learned about Nissan's CVTs
through the first-hand experience, numerous and very detailed 
conversations with mechanics and reading/searching for information 
online. I don't how that would apply to your case, - but I suspect the 
situation in the industry is very similar for different mass-product 
manufacturers.


Despite being in existence (in non-luxury models) for over 10 years, CVT 
remains being somewhat under-tested/under-designed in the sense of 
reliability and how well it is adapted to various driving conditions.

Nissan has had CVTs in many (most?) models in the past 5-8 (-10?) years.
Nissan had huge number of problems with various models. E.g. Rogue, that 
started in 2008, has had huge number of problems that Nissan was denying 
for long time. Ultimately, around 2011-2012, because of those problems, 
they have extended warranty on the CVT up to 125 Kmiles.
Throughout this period they had a bunch of "patches", "fixes" and other 
type of kludges introduced:

1. reprogramming of the firmware for the CVT
2. change in the physical design (or manufacturing/parts, ... - I am not 
sure exactly what was changed, as it is not disclosed)
3. addition of an additional cooling system -- if certain symptoms of 
overheating are observed.

And with all of those, - they are still experiencing problems.
Ours started showing various symptoms within the 1st year, and I was 
bringing it to the dealership it many times without any constructive 
diagnostics of the probelm from that point until the CVT completely failed
in 2013 (I couldn't drive from a stop sign.). I don't remember how many 
miles it had at that point, maybe 50-60K?
And the brand-new CVT is not completely symptom-free (although all those 
symptoms are sort of subtle "anomalies", and none of them are any types of 
failures.)


I've been told that a line of Nissan trucks (Titans, IIRC) has huge number 
of warranty repairs in the first 1-3 years.


A number of experienced and smart (non-dealer) mechanics refuse to deal 
with CVTs. The reasons are: 1. it's a complicated system, and 2. from what 
I understand (but I might be wrong), - Nissan does not release any 
information about repairs/rebuilding of CVTs. I suspect even dealership 
mechanics do not do any rebuilding of CVTs: they either replace CVTs, or 
they add those cooling systems as prescribed by the corporate Nissan.


It doesn't mean that a smart guy cannot figure things out (you know, 
people hacked more complicated electronic systems). But I would not expect 
an average Joe's Corner Shop to deal with that correctly.



A few other thoughts:
I assume that you've already checked that Subaru didn't issue any extended 
warranty for your model. Just in case, - I would google for your model and 
CVT, - to check if it is a frequently experienced problem. If it is, even 
if it is not an officially accepted problem, - you can try to push on your 
local dealer's mechanic shop (good luck with that!), and they might
give you some discounts, as Paul has suggested. It's a slim chance, - but 
might be worse trying. They might feel some guilt (har!) or have some 
non-obvous incentive to be nice to you.


If you travel long-distance (as opposed to local, in-city commute), - 
being sure that you wouldn't get stranded in the middle of nowhere could 
be strong enough reason not to go for the lowest cost, even if you can 
install 3 of those CVTs for the cost of one new.
And in case one of the warranties is significantly longer than 1 year, I 
would seriously consider that, even though I very seldom pay for any 
extra warranties.


Good luck!

Igor

PS. I like the performance and the feel of the CVT on Rogue, but I would 
do a very careful research about CVT reliability when I will be buying my 
next car.
And I am not keen on the idea of the shift-point emulation on top of 
the CVT. That's what Nissan does in some of the current models.

I think that is a fad that defeats the advantages of a CVT.



On May 29, 2016 11:12 AM, "Mark C" wrote:


While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback made
some odd noises and suddenly lit up what looked like every warning light on
the control panel. I pulled over and wound up getting it towed to the
nearest dealership. On Friday they gave me the bad news - at just 78,000
miles the CVT transmission was shot. Needs a complete replacement.

The shop that has the car quoted me $11,000 to replace the CVT with a new
unit and just under $10,000 for a factory re-manufactured one. My local
shop quoted me $7,700 for a Subaru remanufactured CVT. It might be more
since I don't know if that includes the 6% sale tax on CVT itself. A local
independent shop gave me a rough estimate of $4,400 for a used
one,installed. All of the places figure about $1000 labor, everything else
is the cost of parts plus sales tax on the parts.

The only firm estimates I have are the ones from the 

Re: GESO: Stairwell

[Mark C]

#1 and #3 are my faves - I'd go with the more abstract #1 of the pair. 
The somewhat irregular edge of the stairs contrasts with the spiral 
shape. Very nice!


On 5/26/2016 1:54 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

A small gallery. only 3 images.

Our hotel in Athens had an interesting stairwell opposite the elevators.  I
liked the geometry and the repetition.  I'm not sure whether I want to make
it mor of an abstract or an archetectrual documentary.

Here is what I have so far:
http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1091371

Thanks for looking, and thnks in advance for any comments, criticisms or
suggestions you might care to offer.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola




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PESO 2016 - 099 - GDG

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

>From yesterday morning: 

 https://flic.kr/p/GHg8vZ

enjoy! 
G

The trouble with being punctual is that nobody's there to appreciate it.


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Re: PESO - Golden Pavilion 2

[Jack Davis]

Still love this, Mark.

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 29, 2016, at 7:31 AM, Mark C  wrote:
> 
> Classic image - the mirror like smooth water is great.
> 
>> On 5/26/2016 7:29 AM, Eric Featherstone wrote:
>> One more from the Golden Pavilion
>> 
>> 
>> https://flic.kr/p/E16tZA
>> or
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18237407
>> 
>> Kyoto, Jan 2016
>> 
>> Pentax K-x, Tamron AF 17-50mm F2.8 XR Di-II LD
>> 1/80s @ f/8, ISO640
>> 
>> Comments welcome.
> 
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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Zos Xavius]

If its Subaru remanufactured its probably fine for what its worth. I would
only go with their rebuilds though. Warranty I wouldn't know. 6 months
sounds reasonable to me.
On May 29, 2016 11:18 AM, "Zos Xavius"  wrote:

> Jesus that's expensive for a transmission swap. I didn't know the outbacks
> were using CVTs now. I wonder why it would fail so early. The Prius CVT can
> hit 200k pretty easily.
> On May 29, 2016 11:12 AM, "Mark C"  wrote:
>
>> While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback made
>> some odd noises and suddenly lit up what looked like every warning light on
>> the control panel. I pulled over and wound up getting it towed to the
>> nearest dealership. On Friday they gave me the bad news - at just 78,000
>> miles the CVT transmission was shot. Needs a complete replacement.
>>
>> The shop that has the car quoted me $11,000 to replace the CVT with a new
>> unit and just under $10,000 for a factory re-manufactured one. My local
>> shop quoted me $7,700 for a Subaru remanufactured CVT. It might be more
>> since I don't know if that includes the 6% sale tax on CVT itself. A local
>> independent shop gave me a rough estimate of $4,400 for a used
>> one,installed. All of the places figure about $1000 labor, everything else
>> is the cost of parts plus sales tax on the parts.
>>
>> The only firm estimates I have are the ones from the first place. I got
>> the news from them at 3 PM Friday, before the holiday weekend. The local
>> places are quoting typical rates, they have not even seen the car yet to
>> give me a firm estimate. I don't know the warranty on the used
>> transmission at this point either, just that it has 25K on it.
>>
>> I do have a call into Subaru customer service and they have agreed to do
>> a review of this under their goodwill program, so maybe there will be some
>> relief there, but the car is out of warranty and no extended coverage.
>>
>> My concern with a used CVT, though, is that they seem to be pretty
>> complex and high tech devices. I have heard that they are actually built in
>> clean rooms. So I'm wondering if pulling one off a wreck would be a good
>> idea.
>>
>> Any reason NOT to do a used CVT?  Thoughts would be appreciated. My first
>> task is getting the car towed back here next week.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[mike wilson]

Firstly, I would be wanting to know what went wrong with the original.  It's not
unknown for, for example, Ford powershifts to fail here due to lack of
maintenance - even with a main dealer FSH.  That would be a civil litigation
issue.

WRT replacement, I would take the "clean room" story with a pinch of salt.  You
can clearly get two or even three used replacements for the cost of new/reman,
so I would go with that.  Try to find someone who knows the transmission to give
it a lookover/service before installation.

> On 29 May 2016 at 16:11 Mark C  wrote:
> 
> 
> While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback 
> made some odd noises and suddenly lit up what looked like every warning 
> light on the control panel. I pulled over and wound up getting it towed 
> to the nearest dealership. On Friday they gave me the bad news - at just 
> 78,000 miles the CVT transmission was shot. Needs a complete replacement.
> 
> The shop that has the car quoted me $11,000 to replace the CVT with a 
> new unit and just under $10,000 for a factory re-manufactured one. My 
> local shop quoted me $7,700 for a Subaru remanufactured CVT. It might be 
> more since I don't know if that includes the 6% sale tax on CVT itself. 
> A local independent shop gave me a rough estimate of $4,400 for a used 
> one,installed. All of the places figure about $1000 labor, everything 
> else is the cost of parts plus sales tax on the parts.
> 
> The only firm estimates I have are the ones from the first place. I got 
> the news from them at 3 PM Friday, before the holiday weekend. The local 
> places are quoting typical rates, they have not even seen the car yet to 
> give me a firm estimate. I don't know the warranty on the used  
> transmission at this point either, just that it has 25K on it.
> 
> I do have a call into Subaru customer service and they have agreed to do 
> a review of this under their goodwill program, so maybe there will be 
> some relief there, but the car is out of warranty and no extended coverage.
> 
> My concern with a used CVT, though, is that they seem to be pretty 
> complex and high tech devices. I have heard that they are actually built 
> in clean rooms. So I'm wondering if pulling one off a wreck would be a 
> good idea.
> 
> Any reason NOT to do a used CVT?  Thoughts would be appreciated. My 
> first task is getting the car towed back here next week.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: PESO - A portrait of KS1341-D

[Bruce Walker]

Thank you, Mark.

On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Mark C  wrote:
> Really excellent.
>
> On 5/25/2016 9:23 PM, Bruce Walker wrote:
>>
>> Part of a cosplay shoot. KS1341-D is an android with plans to enslave the
>> earth.
>>
>> http://portfolio.brucemwalker.com/index/IB3m9_aENH9o
>>
>> 645Z, DFA645 55mm/2.8, f:8, 1/125th sec, 100 ISO;
>> Key light: 8.5" reflector with 30 degree grid, above-left.
>> Fill: 22" beauty dish with sock, left, feathered.
>>
>> Model, styling: Kirstin Sabrina Dane ~ vintagealchemy.tumblr.com
>> Makeup, face painting: Coral Brandenburg ~ FB coralbrandenburg96
>>
>> Comments welcome.
>>
>
>
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-- 
-bmw

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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Mark C]

Just so I understand - you're saying get a used CVT, have someone go 
into it and look for common faults and repair as needed before 
installing. Right?


Interesting option - I might raise that with the shop that would install 
a used unit. My thought now, though, would be to try to narrow the gap 
between a used and a factory reman and the used CVT. The concerns that I 
have with the approach you are suggesting would be that it would add to 
the cost of a used unit and also could create warranty issues. Who would 
offer a warranty on the CVT - the original parts seller or the person 
who checks and repairs it? But this approach does address the worries 
I'd have with a used unit.


On 5/29/2016 3:45 PM, mike wilson wrote:


Depends what you are going to do afterwards.  From a quick readaround, it seems
Subara has dropped the ball with its CVT and faults are pretty much guaranteed.
  Mostly, they are minor but require major surgery for rectification.  A cheap
replacement allows you to go inside and check, fix or pre-emptively deal with
those and you can then install and wave bye-bye.  Which is what I would be
doing.




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GESO: K-1 and continuous autofocus

[Paul Stenquist]

I shot a few pics of Grace and her friend Max on a slip and slide this 
afternoon — multi frame shooting and continuous autofocus.. The K-1 held focus 
throughout. My other Pentax cameras could’t quite do that. These four frames 
are about half of the sequence, but they’ll give you a sense of how well it 
worked. f6.3, ISO 400, 70mm.


http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18239206=lg
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18239207=lg
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18239208=lg
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18239209=lg

Best,
Paul
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PESO: True Romance

[Daniel J. Matyola]

A street in Athens:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18239380=lg
K-5 IIs, DA 18-135 zoom
Comments, Criticisms and Suggestions are invited.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

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Re: PESO: True Romance

[Boris Liberman]

Daniel, if you're into this kind of photography, I can highly
recommend Tel Aviv.

In fact, I even happen to know in a person a very nice (possibly
American) lady who guides graffiti tours. You would see wondrous
places :-).

Boris


On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Daniel J. Matyola  wrote:
> A street in Athens:
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18239380=lg
> K-5 IIs, DA 18-135 zoom
> Comments, Criticisms and Suggestions are invited.
>
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>
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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Boris Liberman]

Mark, if you plan to drive this car for some time more (like not
selling it immediately after it become driveable again), I would think
that going with one of 10K options (better brand new in my view) is
unfortunate circumstance of life.

I know in USA it is a lot of money to invest in the car, but this
looks like the most responsible option to me.

Never had an auto transmission fail on me yet... Though currently I
drive stick-shift.

On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Mark C  wrote:
> The quotes for the remanufactured CVT are all for one from Subaru. FWIW, the
> independent shop told me ~8000 to put in a remanufactured unit, in the ball
> park with what the local to what the local dealer told me. The alternative
> is a used CVT - i.e. one pulled from a car in a junkyard.
>
> I'm starting to think the used CVT route may not be a good one...
>
>
> On 5/29/2016 11:20 AM, Zos Xavius wrote:
>>
>> If its Subaru remanufactured its probably fine for what its worth. I would
>> only go with their rebuilds though. Warranty I wouldn't know. 6 months
>> sounds reasonable to me.
>> On May 29, 2016 11:18 AM, "Zos Xavius"  wrote:
>
>
>
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GESO: Stairwell Revisited

[Daniel J. Matyola]

For those who have commented on my previous gallery of 3 versions of
my Stairwell image, and especially for those who put forth
suggestions, Here is a sightly larger gallery featuring two of the
originals and a few reworkings of each.

http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1091418

As usual, comments, criticisms and suggestions are invited and appreciated.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Paul Stenquist]

Based on what Igor said below, I would do some web research and find out who 
makes Subaru's CVT. It's not likely Subaru. Two or three companies make most of 
the world's transmissions, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nissan and 
Subaru use the same trans. If so, you can point to Nissan's extended warranty. 
Check NHTSA for owner complaints as well. I think you can make Subaru see the 
light. I'll ask around and see if there's any talk about this among the tech 
aware journalists. 

Paul via phone

> On May 29, 2016, at 12:52 PM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
> 
> 
> Mark,
> 
> I do not know anything about Subaru's CVTs.
> I've had somewhat extensive experience and learned about Nissan's CVTs
> through the first-hand experience, numerous and very detailed conversations 
> with mechanics and reading/searching for information online. I don't how that 
> would apply to your case, - but I suspect the situation in the industry is 
> very similar for different mass-product manufacturers.
> 
> Despite being in existence (in non-luxury models) for over 10 years, CVT 
> remains being somewhat under-tested/under-designed in the sense of 
> reliability and how well it is adapted to various driving conditions.
> Nissan has had CVTs in many (most?) models in the past 5-8 (-10?) years.
> Nissan had huge number of problems with various models. E.g. Rogue, that 
> started in 2008, has had huge number of problems that Nissan was denying for 
> long time. Ultimately, around 2011-2012, because of those problems, they have 
> extended warranty on the CVT up to 125 Kmiles.
> Throughout this period they had a bunch of "patches", "fixes" and other type 
> of kludges introduced:
> 1. reprogramming of the firmware for the CVT
> 2. change in the physical design (or manufacturing/parts, ... - I am not sure 
> exactly what was changed, as it is not disclosed)
> 3. addition of an additional cooling system -- if certain symptoms of 
> overheating are observed.
> And with all of those, - they are still experiencing problems.
> Ours started showing various symptoms within the 1st year, and I was bringing 
> it to the dealership it many times without any constructive diagnostics of 
> the probelm from that point until the CVT completely failed
> in 2013 (I couldn't drive from a stop sign.). I don't remember how many miles 
> it had at that point, maybe 50-60K?
> And the brand-new CVT is not completely symptom-free (although all those 
> symptoms are sort of subtle "anomalies", and none of them are any types of 
> failures.)
> 
> I've been told that a line of Nissan trucks (Titans, IIRC) has huge number of 
> warranty repairs in the first 1-3 years.
> 
> A number of experienced and smart (non-dealer) mechanics refuse to deal with 
> CVTs. The reasons are: 1. it's a complicated system, and 2. from what I 
> understand (but I might be wrong), - Nissan does not release any information 
> about repairs/rebuilding of CVTs. I suspect even dealership mechanics do not 
> do any rebuilding of CVTs: they either replace CVTs, or they add those 
> cooling systems as prescribed by the corporate Nissan.
> 
> It doesn't mean that a smart guy cannot figure things out (you know, people 
> hacked more complicated electronic systems). But I would not expect an 
> average Joe's Corner Shop to deal with that correctly.
> 
> 
> A few other thoughts:
> I assume that you've already checked that Subaru didn't issue any extended 
> warranty for your model. Just in case, - I would google for your model and 
> CVT, - to check if it is a frequently experienced problem. If it is, even if 
> it is not an officially accepted problem, - you can try to push on your local 
> dealer's mechanic shop (good luck with that!), and they might
> give you some discounts, as Paul has suggested. It's a slim chance, - but 
> might be worse trying. They might feel some guilt (har!) or have some 
> non-obvous incentive to be nice to you.
> 
> If you travel long-distance (as opposed to local, in-city commute), - being 
> sure that you wouldn't get stranded in the middle of nowhere could be strong 
> enough reason not to go for the lowest cost, even if you can install 3 of 
> those CVTs for the cost of one new.
> And in case one of the warranties is significantly longer than 1 year, I 
> would seriously consider that, even though I very seldom pay for any extra 
> warranties.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Igor
> 
> PS. I like the performance and the feel of the CVT on Rogue, but I would do a 
> very careful research about CVT reliability when I will be buying my next car.
> And I am not keen on the idea of the shift-point emulation on top of the CVT. 
> That's what Nissan does in some of the current models.
> I think that is a fad that defeats the advantages of a CVT.
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 29, 2016 11:12 AM, "Mark C" wrote:
>> 
>> While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback made
>> some odd noises and suddenly lit up what looked like every warning light on

Re: GESO: Stairwell Revisited

[Jack Davis]

On my phone, I prefer the second color stair free image. It must have been #3 
in your first post.
J


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 29, 2016, at 10:11 AM, Daniel J. Matyola  wrote:
> 
> For those who have commented on my previous gallery of 3 versions of
> my Stairwell image, and especially for those who put forth
> suggestions, Here is a sightly larger gallery featuring two of the
> originals and a few reworkings of each.
> 
> http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1091418
> 
> As usual, comments, criticisms and suggestions are invited and appreciated.
> 
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
> 
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Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Bipin Gupta]

Hello Mark, go with a used one canabalized from another Subaru. Don't
be afraid. I am an automotive Engineer, having owned a Subaru - albeit
one with a 5-gear automatic transmission - uses fluidics and a torque
converter.

I am not a CVT admirer as these generate friction losses and will not
accelerate your car to that spurt of power if you suddenly floor the
accelerator. Of course manual transmissions are best for positive
power spurts and great at maximizing mpg.

I have worked at General Motors in the US, Detroit Diesel Allison in
India manufacturing automatic gear boxes, Hyundai Motors, Nissan
Motors and Hindustan Motors as a Production / Industrial Engineer in
their factories. I retired as Advisor from Nissan.

I believe General Motors make the best automatic transmission in the world.

Just make sure the local garage gives you an assurance for atleast (6)
months on the canabalised CVT. This will force him to do some tests to
ensure that the CVT removed from the old vehicle is good.
25K on the odometer is a good omen. Go for it man.

Yep, all automatic transmissions are assembled in dust free rooms, as
are Engines. Let me assure you dust & dirt will not enter inside the
CVT as it is enclosed. Just that the local garage should take
reasonable care in removing, cleaning, inspecting and fitting it to
your car.

Good luck Mark.

Regards.
Bipin.

PS: Where are you based? I will be in San Mateo, the Bay Area,
California starting July 2016.

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Re: OT - Transmission Replacement - Re manufactured vs Used

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Yeah, that's a lot. My brother had years of excellent service with his Subaru 
Forester and then it too died of some rather expensive repairs that kept on 
coming. 

(The Prius CVT is a completely different transmission design that can only be 
utilized with their Synergy parallel hybrid power train. It is more correctly a 
constant torque transmission rather than a continuous variable transmission. 
It's essentially a very very simple system that has all continuous mesh gears 
and no gear changes; it should last almost literally forever as long as the 
lubricant is refreshed occasionally.) 

G

> On May 29, 2016, at 8:18 AM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
> 
> Jesus that's expensive for a transmission swap. I didn't know the outbacks
> were using CVTs now. I wonder why it would fail so early. The Prius CVT can
> hit 200k pretty easily.


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