RE: [biofuel] RE: Vacuum Pump for Condenser
Thanks, Robert. I'll check JTF again. I'll fill you in once I finally get around experimenting with the idea. Regards, chris =-Original Message- =From: robert luis rabello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:55 PM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] RE: Vacuum Pump for Condenser = = = = =Tan wrote: = = Can anyone give me an opinion about this? = = Would a vacuum pump from a car (the vacuum pump attached to the =alternator = and the breaks' master cylinder) do for alcohol recovery? = =Most cars use engine vacuum to run the power brakes. I have seen =vacuum pumps on diesel powered vehicles, but these are not that common =in the junkyards around here. = =As for alcohol recovery, I've never done this, so I can't comment. =Since this is the second time you've posted this message, I figured =somebody should say SOMETHING about it. Have you checked the biodiesel =resource pages at Journey to Forever? = =robert luis rabello =The Edge of Justice =Adventure for Your Mind =http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 = = = = = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Yahoo! Groups Links = = = = = Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: New producer in search of Methanol
I'm a student at UW-Parkside in Kenosha WI. I'm actually in the southeast corner of the state. We have a dragstrip not to far, Great Lakes Dragaway. I might try there if I don't find anything in the Menards paint dept. Thanks for the info guys, it's been a big help. I've just recently learned of biodiesel and can't wait to start using it. I'm sure I'll be picking your brains as I develop my technique. Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Bazell Race Fuels in Ohio has various distributors throughout the midwest. They have a website, and are pretty helpful. The local dealer here in Indiana hasn't been too darn helpful, but the people in Ohio seem to be. Whereabouts in Southease WI would you be located? I spent a few years in Pewaukee and Tosa. Hope to get back someday, but currently stuck in Indiana due to job situation. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, stevenpfaff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to start producing biodiesel for myself but I'm having a bit of trouble finding Methanol. Could anyone advise where I might look in or around the Southeast Wisconsin area? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] CENTRIFUGAL PURIFIER for auction
I rarly post but I had to let yall know about this PENNWALT CORP MDL:14VN2P CENTRIFUGAL PURIFIER, MAX BOWL RPM 15. 000 It is up for auction on govliquidation.com . The auction ends 5/5/04 and no one has bid yet. Unit cost was $55.5K!!! Should be able to pick up CHEAP!! They have two and are located in Norfolk,Va. log on and search for PENNWALT with out quotes Jason Gnatowsky Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: Vacuum Pump for Condenser
Hi I've been wrestling with this one for a while and I don't see an easy answer. I think: a vacuum pump is not what you need, your condenser needs to empty into a well, and since this needs to be a closed system so the alcohol doesent go evaporating off into the atmosphere. You need to maintain a level in the well with a positive displacement pump that is driven by a control circuit which maintains a prescribed Temperature/vacuum pressure at the top of the reactor/condenser, Fred On Sunday, May 2, 2004, at 17:26 US/Eastern, Tan wrote: Can anyone give me an opinion about this? Would a vacuum pump from a car (the vacuum pump attached to the alternator and the breaks' master cylinder) do for alcohol recovery? Thanks, Chris Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made. Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] How long does lye take to dissolve in methanol
I finally took the step of making a test batch of biodiesel. At least I have attempted to mix teh methoxide. I bought a bottle of HEET gas line antifreeze which is reportedly of a high enough purity to use, and a jar of red devil lye. I mixed about 7 grams of lye to a bit better than 300Ml of Methanol. How long before I have useable methoxide? IO tried looking at Keith's site, but apparently its down tonight or else my browser is having trouble recognizing it. Can you all help me? Thanks! J.D. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] RE: Vacuum Pump for Condenser
Fred, Actually, I have been contemplating on this for quite a long time. I have been studying Dale Scroggin's processor which has a vacuum pump in it. (http://home.swbell.net/scrof/Biod_Proc.html). His schematics (http://home.swbell.net/scrof/procdraw.htm) indicate that the vacuum pump is connected at the end of the vapor line--process tank, condenser, alcohol trap then vacuum pump. But, my concern is since the pump is connected at the end of the line, the alcohol trap is also subjected to vacuum and so considerable alcohol will be re-vaporized and lost to the atmosphere. To minimize alcohol lost, I am thinking that the vacuum pump must be situated before the condenser--process tank, vacuum pump, condenser then liquid trap. In this setup only the process tank is subjected to vacuum. The condenser and the liquid trap would have a higher pressure, which is conducive to condensation, by constricting the liquid trap air outlet. A totally close condenser system is, I think, close to impossible since the vapor other than alcohol pumped from the processor must go somewhere. By the time gas reaches the outlet, the alcohol should have been condensed due to lowered temperature leaving us with just gas (other than alcohol). The velocity of the gas will be diminished as it enters the liquid trap due to its bigger cavity (Bernoulli's principle), thus there is less possibility that the alcohol recovered will be re-vaporized and escape into the air. How does this sound? Regards, Chris =-Original Message- =From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:10 AM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] RE: Vacuum Pump for Condenser = = =Hi =I've been wrestling with this one for a while and I don't see an easy =answer. =I think: = a vacuum pump is not what you need, your condenser needs to empty =into a well, and since this needs to be a closed system so the alcohol =doesn't go evaporating off into the atmosphere. You need to maintain a =level in the well with a positive displacement pump that is driven by a =control circuit which maintains a prescribed Temperature/vacuum =pressure at the top of the reactor/condenser, = =Fred = =On Sunday, May 2, 2004, at 17:26 US/Eastern, Tan wrote: = = Can anyone give me an opinion about this? = = Would a vacuum pump from a car (the vacuum pump attached to the = alternator = and the breaks' master cylinder) do for alcohol recovery? = = Thanks, = Chris = = = = Yahoo! Groups Sponsor = -~-- = Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark = Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US = Canada. = http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 = http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM = - = ~- = = Biofuel at Journey to Forever: = http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = = Biofuels list archives: = http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ = = Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. = To unsubscribe, send an email to: = [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Yahoo! Groups Links = = = = = = = =And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones =to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. =They say it is to see how the world was made. =Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 = = = = = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Yahoo! Groups Links = = = = = Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Orange Biodiesel?
While still a rookie, I've produced 6-7 liters using WVO. My labor paid off with a neutral pH and amber clear biodiesel. However, can certain WVO oils mixed together produce a different color output? For example I received approximate 5 gal peanut oil, 15 gal canola and 1 gal of Soy Oil.that were donated to me from varies sources (All are WVO). I simply poured the WVO in my WVO drum for future bioprocessing. Upon processing, I completed 3 batches of 17 liters. I received good separation. After draining the biodiesel to a wash tank, I noticed that my output was murky and orange in color. I've washed the fuel twice and still it's orange and murky (even though the wash water is clear)! I did a gentle shake test using about 6 oz orange to 6 0z of water and it easily separated within minutes. Later, I shook the same container vigorously, no emulsions and good separation within minutes. I haven't tested the pH yet, but on the biases of the color I received, has anyone had orange biodiesel? It looks just like orange soda, but It smells exactly as biodiesel?. The processing phase seemed normal. Thank you, Kevin Shea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] SVO and Vehicle Navigation Systems
[GIS is]Powerful stuff. I first saw that in action about 12 years ago when a very bright young Australian guy showed me what it was capable of, at Friends of the Earth International's hq in London. Very impressive! Moved on a lot since then eh? Yes it has, you need any bio data mapped, you let me know. In the mean time, those of you in the US may find our website interesting: www.aerials-express.com Type an address in and see the building from the air. I think it sounds brilliant! Where's the catch? No catch? Short of evil aliens taking out a satellite or two while invading? No catch, though the price for a navigation system (built in to the vehicle) is around $3,000.00. For anyone interested, a Garmin I-Que PDA ($500.00) will do the same thing. Saludos, Ryan From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 5:57 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] SVO and Vehicle Navigation Systems Hi Ryan Here's a brain storm for you: I work in GIS, for those of you who aren't yet familiar with that, it stands for Geographic Information Systems. Powerful stuff. I first saw that in action about 12 years ago when a very bright young Australian guy showed me what it was capable of, at Friends of the Earth International's hq in London. Very impressive! Moved on a lot since then eh? Essentially I make maps and use things like aerial photography and GPS to do so. Hanging out at my local map store on a Friday evening (what a dork) I got to talking with another mapper about his VW TDI and biodiesel. He wasn't too clear on what biodiesel was (he thought it was just filtered SVO) so I started explaining how SVO required two tanks and a switch. I told him how the driver had to start on dino/biodiesel, switch to SVO, and then remember to switch it back before turning the motor off. We both agreed that this was too much to remember for the driving masses, and bingo! It hit me. Why not hook the switch to an in-vehicle navigation system? Believe it or not, this would not be difficult to do. The driver gets in the vehicle, sets a route, and the car knows when it's a quarter mile away from it's destination and switches back to dino/biodiesel automatically. What do you think? I think it sounds brilliant! Where's the catch? No catch? Short of evil aliens taking out a satellite or two while invading? Best Keith Cheers, Ryan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Journey to Forever website
Sorry folks, our website's down, as some of you have noticed. We're having some DNS problems, we're working on it, it should be available again soon. Please bear with us. Apologies. Keith Addison Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] biodiesel business
Hi Eva, We are planning to have a bio-diesel plant in Malaysia and thinking of making our product cheaper cos' we are a third world country with amble supply of crude palm oil. We are currently studying various proposal using our feedstock as crude palm oil. Interested to assist as to make this commercially viable for the green engine. Thank you. JP , Eva Pierce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You bring up a good point. It's hard to find green business people, since there's a lot more money to be made elsewhere. I totally encourage your efforts Tomas. My 2 cents on your question: maybe you could contact other schools that use biodiesel in their fleets and see what they've done. I know they are out there but not sure which ones they are. As for biodiesel business, I have noticed in the past few weeks that: - there are a LOT of homebrewers and co-ops (yay!) - there are NOT a lot of commercial biodiesel suppliers or retail biodiesel stations. Even though in my (very non-MBA) head it seems like a pretty simple and straightforward thing to do commercially (except maybe the government hoops - ASTM standards and all that). I think co-ops and homebrews have their place but a biodiesel station franchise, for example, that uses its profits to add more biodiesel stations, sounds like a fantastic way to leverage capitalism to undermine our dependence on foreign oil. What are the roadblocks preventing biodiesel business from taking off? Lack of green MBAs? OPEC politics? Expensive required EPA testing (I don't understand this issue at all)? Not enough waste veg. oil to meet demand? Not enough diesel passenger cars out there? Seems like if biodiesel were easily available along major commutes in major cities, ordinary folks would gladly pay less per gallon for biodiesel and feel good about themselves for saving the environment and preventing future wars to boot. I'll tell ya, I was born an engineer and the acronym MBA always made my stomach turn, but I'd get an MBA in a heartbeat if I knew I could use it to start a biodiesel business from which I could make a decent living. From: Ken Provost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 4:49 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] biodiesel business on 5/3/04 12:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to make some money with biodiesel. Why? Can't you just be a day trader or something? -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links ð To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ ð To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ð Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Using Prius as an electric car *#
Eva Thanks for your concern and insight. I, too, knew very little about b-d until a few months ago. It started with an email from someone in Australia who started running their TDi on WVO (waste vegetable oil) and then the wonderful discovery of the grass roots people around the world building their own systems to convert WVO to b-d. I looked into kits to convert cars to WVO dual tank systems, and then seriously started hunting for a TDi. (found my 2000 Golf TDi with only 50 K)At this point I discovered JTF, and have read a lot of interesting comments from list members. Yes, there were front page stories in the Times, etc (links to follow) which did not make any waves, obviously. Yes,the country needs to be informed that an alternative isd here in front of their faces, and Bush should NOT put any money into the super costly hydrogen cell technology. But my frustration still lies in obtaining b-d. One list member offered for me to come visit him upstate (near Oneonta) to see his conversion tank system.(I live in NJ but own a house in the Catskills) But my efforts to obtain a 5 gal pail or 55 gal drum of b-d for me to mix into my own B20 (20%) is tough, because the shipping is almost as much as the product itself. I CAN buy a tractor trailer load, but who has a tank to store that much? Therefore the need to start-up a small distributorship here in the NY area, maybe in an old gas station? I am seriously pursuing it. If your TDi gets such good mileage, it wouldnt be so bad for someone to travel from, say Queens or Brooklyn to north NJ where my station will be, I would even offer to pay back tolls! If I could generate enough interest from this list, it would be an incentive for me. Thanks again, and keep in touch. (are you also in NY?) -busyditch Here is a cool list,if you browse around there are articles from various media, plus super reviews of the TDi cars. http://www.tdiclub.com/ - Original Message - From: Eva Pierce To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 7:00 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Using Prius as an electric car *# I, too, would be interested in hearing about your efforts to start biodiesel production in NYC. More from the perspective of another biodiesel newbie that is interested in production. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that most people are less enlightened than the ones on this list, in that even if they do connect our political problems with oil, it does not occur to them that there are alternatives that are both environmentally and economically (key point!) more healthy. What's astonishing to me is how long biodiesel has been around versus how recently (I can count the weeks on two hands) I discovered its existence. Where are the press releases and ad campaigns? Definitely not on the front page. _ From: murdoch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:32 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Using Prius as an electric car *# If you are able to follow through on this, or even if you are not able to do so, and find that it just takes the fire out of you, I for one will be extremely interested to read of your efforts, or of any further info you can pass on to us, about the NYC area. I am acquainted with the guy who runs NYCE wheels, the 2-wheeler EV seller on the upper east side. But that's just an EV issue, not a biofuel issue. A couple of years ago I was in NYC and asked about the grocery store situation. I realized that I never seemed to see large chain stores as I am accustomed to elsehwere. I was told that, basically, the local stores had a strong push and were able to keep the area different from the chain-store-ization of elsewhere. I am not saying good or bad, I was just sort of wondering, and that's what I was told... as I kept in mind the amounts of food going into the city every day, and the amounts of waste exiting. There was a news story or two, a few years ago, about the issue of some restauraunt waste grease, that might otherwise have been turned into fuel, being put illegally into the sewer systems, and causing damage. Apparently this was happening in a certain Chinese restaurant area more than in others? I have not heard any further discussion of this. Manhattan is such a different area from others that I have been to, that I cannot begin to really understand it. I never seem to see gas stations, yet there must be some, because there are certainly enough cars and taxis. I think this is merely my perception, that I don't see any. But at the same time, I'm guessing that it's highly regulated and that this is part of the reason for the lack of inroads by folks trying to do something different. After 9-11, I expected NYC people, of anyone, to make a connection between the issue of changing the sourcing of their fuel and fighting the war, or at least fighting whatever fight any individual citizen wanted, as far as his own personal views
RE: [biofuel] biodiesel business
Hi,I am joining from Turkey.We plan to produce biodiesel in Turkey.Now we are working on making biodiesel from palm oil.We try sunflower and used oil.Can anyone give me more information making palm biodiesel. -Original Message- From: Kim Phung [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:01 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] biodiesel business Hi Eva, We are planning to have a bio-diesel plant in Malaysia and thinking of making our product cheaper cos' we are a third world country with amble supply of crude palm oil. We are currently studying various proposal using our feedstock as crude palm oil. Interested to assist as to make this commercially viable for the green engine. Thank you. JP , Eva Pierce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You bring up a good point. It's hard to find green business people, since there's a lot more money to be made elsewhere. I totally encourage your efforts Tomas. My 2 cents on your question: maybe you could contact other schools that use biodiesel in their fleets and see what they've done. I know they are out there but not sure which ones they are. As for biodiesel business, I have noticed in the past few weeks that: - there are a LOT of homebrewers and co-ops (yay!) - there are NOT a lot of commercial biodiesel suppliers or retail biodiesel stations. Even though in my (very non-MBA) head it seems like a pretty simple and straightforward thing to do commercially (except maybe the government hoops - ASTM standards and all that). I think co-ops and homebrews have their place but a biodiesel station franchise, for example, that uses its profits to add more biodiesel stations, sounds like a fantastic way to leverage capitalism to undermine our dependence on foreign oil. What are the roadblocks preventing biodiesel business from taking off? Lack of green MBAs? OPEC politics? Expensive required EPA testing (I don't understand this issue at all)? Not enough waste veg. oil to meet demand? Not enough diesel passenger cars out there? Seems like if biodiesel were easily available along major commutes in major cities, ordinary folks would gladly pay less per gallon for biodiesel and feel good about themselves for saving the environment and preventing future wars to boot. I'll tell ya, I was born an engineer and the acronym MBA always made my stomach turn, but I'd get an MBA in a heartbeat if I knew I could use it to start a biodiesel business from which I could make a decent living. From: Ken Provost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 4:49 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] biodiesel business on 5/3/04 12:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to make some money with biodiesel. Why? Can't you just be a day trader or something? -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links . To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ . To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Tim Castleman's Post
Tim, I fundamentally agree with your conservation message, and your mantra of social responsibility and sustainability, but I think questioning feedstock capacities at this point is a straw argument. Saying we can't grow enough to meet our fuel needs is a little like saying we shouldn't make electricity from wind--after all, the wind doesn't always blow. Lyle Estill V.P., Stuff Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Orange Biodiesel?
On Tue, 04 May 2004 00:40:38 -0400 Kevin Shea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote. htmlbody tt While still a rookie, I've produced 6-7 liters using WVO. My labor paid off with a neutral pH and amber clear biodiesel.BR BR However, can certain WVO oils mixed together produce a different color output? For example I received approximate 5 gal peanut oil, 15 gal canola and 1 gal of Soy Oil.that were donated to me from varies sources (All are WVO). I simply poured the WVO in my WVO drum for future bioprocessing.BR BR Upon processing, I completed 3 batches of 17 liters. I received good separation. After draining the biodiesel to a wash tank, I noticed that my output was murky and orange in color. I've washed the fuel twice and still it's orange and murky (even though the wash water is clear)!BR BR I did a gentle shake test using about 6 oz orange to 6 0z of water and it easily separated within minutes. Later, I shook the same container vigorously, no emulsions and good separation within minutes.BR BR I haven't tested the pH yet, but on the biases of the color I received, has anyone had orange biodiesel? It looks just like orange soda, but It smells exactly as biodiesel?. The processing phase seemed normal.BR BR BR Thank you, BR Kevin SheaBR BR BR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]BR BR BR /tt brbr tt Biofuel at Journey to Forever:BR a href=http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html;http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html/aBR BR Biofuels list archives:BR a href=http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/;http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel//aBR BR Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.BR To unsubscribe, send an email to:BR [EMAIL PROTECTED]/tt brbr br !-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -- table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2 tr bgcolor=#CC td align=centerfont size=-1 color=#003399bYahoo! Groups Sponsor/b/font/td /tr tr bgcolor=#FF td align=center width=470table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 tr td align=centerfont face=arial size=-2ADVERTISEMENT/fontbra href=http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12962m8ak/M=295196.4901138.6052515.3001176/D=groups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1083738864/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://companion.yahoo.com; alt=img src=http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_companion/lrec_companion_043004.gif; alt=click here width=300 height=250 border=0/a/td/tr/table /td /tr trtdimg alt= width=1 height=1 src=http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6052515.3001176/D=groups/S=:HM/A=2128215/rand=708202958;/td/tr /table !-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -- !-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -- br tthr width=500 bYahoo! Groups Links/bbr ul liTo visit your group on the web, go to:bra href=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel//abr liTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:bra href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/abr liYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the a href=http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/;Yahoo! Terms of Service/a. /ul /tt /br !-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -- /body/html you didnt boil the water out of the wvo, thats why you got orange stuff Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: (fwd) (fwd) First day driving the ACPropulsion car
That sounds like a babington burner. Is it, Charles? Regards, chris =-Original Message- =From: Ed Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:37 AM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: (fwd) (fwd) First day driving the =ACPropulsion car = = =Your heater sound great, maybe you could post the plans(?). =Thanks, =Ed = = =From: charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] =Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: [biofuel] Re: (fwd) (fwd) First day driving the ACPropulsion car =Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 13:24:30 - = =good solutions to our energy problems tend to leave out big =brother,big business,big oil and big daddy bush. just think how much =good it would do if all our soldiers came back to the u.s. and =converted 1 diesel engine a day to run on free used cooking oil, =like my 83 nissan diesel truck does.being ex 101st airborne, i am =sure all the soldiers could be taught how to do it, and most of them =would enjoy it.but running on cooking oil is good for the =environment, and nobody makes a profit, except the poor old greasy =guy who converts his vehicle to save money and the air his kids will =breath. sure, a few people make some money, selling conversion =parts, but there is no HUGE profit margin for anyone, except that =greasy guy again, goin on grease. also, my little waste cooking oil =heater/jet blasts hot eneough to melt aluminum and heat a =gymnasium.2 hours of high heat,with an input of a 30 second run on a =cheap 12volt air compressor, and less than 1 liter of free used =cooking oil(actually the smaller one will heat most houses, and gets =8 hrs on 2 liters of oil). i actually melted a hole in my copper =vaporizor coil the other day on the big one, so i have to rebuild it =using steel now.big brother and big business could never profit off =the fuel or the parts,though, so i doubt you will ever see this unit =at home depot or lowes. = = = =_ =MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ö FREE =download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ = = = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Yahoo! Groups Links = = = = = Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Journey to Forever website
Sorry folks, our website's down, as some of you have noticed. We're having some DNS problems, we're working on it, it should be available again soon. Please bear with us. Apologies. Keith Addison Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/ The site's back again now, should be throughout the network. Sorry about that. Best wishes Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Wealth of Nature
Hi Ed On Sunday, May 2, 2004, at 02:30 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Herman Daly's book Beyond Growth was required reading in the program I was in a few years ago, for the course in Ecological Economics (not your typical course or program!, especially in '99). I haven't read it. :-( But I've read a lot of excerpts and commentaries, as with the other eco-economists, and Georgescu. Reading books is slow stuff for me these days, a couple of minutes at a time tucked in here and there, a severe problem and I don't know what to do about it. It's very interesting reading..my copy kept me up late making copious notes in the margins! A real eye-opener. And, despite what we may think, Adam Smith did have a fairly strong notion of the need to maintain the social fabric of society - more than he's given credit for. Too much selective quoting, and quoting out of context going on with his stuff, too often, I think... So do I think. Often by people who don't seem to have read The Wealth of Nations (which I have read, ha!). It's amusing to imagine an argument between a reincarnated Adam Smith, given a few months to look around at today's world and another few months to recover from it, and say Milton Friedman. Or Alan Greenspan. Or any of their ilk. It certainly would be an argument. I'd put my money on Smith. I think he'd agree more with Daly et al. I don't think he'd like this, for instance: The Adam Smith Institute, the ultra-rightwing lobby group, now receives more money from Britain's Department for International Development (DfID) than Liberia or Somalia, two of the most desperate nations on Earth. ... The institute's purpose is to devise new means for corporations to grab the resources that belong to the public realm. [From another reference:] The brains behind these stunts is Adam Smith International, the global consulting arm of the UK-based think tank. The money came from DFID, which in recent years has channelled more than a quarter of a million pounds of its allocation to Tanzania through Adam Smith International. The use of substantial sums of UK aid money in one of the world's poorest countries to swing the public behind a World Bank-led water privatisation may be surprising to UK taxpayers. Also: Vijay Vaitheeswaran of The Economist in his new book, 'Power to the People' joins others in saying, in essence, that what's really needed is a marriage between Adam Smith, the father of free markets, and Rachel Carson, the mother of the environmental movement. They're not incompatible, despite all the neo-liberal cant to the contrary. I think it largely amounts to the eco-economists, and Schumacher. GOING back two centuries, economists have worried about what Adam Smith described as the tendency of chieftains in a market system 'to deceive and even to oppress the public.' Yes, that's what he really said. Something else he really said: Adam Smith commented in 1776 that the only trades that justified incorporation were banking, insurance, canal building and waterworks. He believed it was contrary to the public interest for any other businesses or trades to be incorporated and that all should be run as partnerships. I guess you could read canal building as public transport. You certainly can't read waterworks as World Bank/Bechtel/Adam Smith Institute-style water privatisation. Smith also said: It was not by gold or by silver, but by labour, that all the wealth of the world was originally purchased. He said businessmen always yearn to escape from price competition through collusion. This is an interesting piece, it makes your point: http://reactor-core.org/betrayal-of-adam-smith.html The Betrayal Of Adam Smith, by David C. Korten Excerpt from When Corporations Rule the World, 2nd Edition Smith strongly disliked both governments and corporations. He viewed government primarily as an instrument for extracting taxes to subsidize elites and intervening in the market to protect corporate monopolies. In his words, 'Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.' Korten's a good read, much influenced by the eco-economists. Compare this next bit from Korten with the quote from Tvo that I posted in the message that started this discussion, below: Smith believed the efficient market is composed of small, owner-managed enterprises located in the communities where the owners reside. Such owners normally share in the community's values and have a personal stake in the future of both the community and the enterprise. In the global corporate economy, footloose money moves across national borders at the speed of light, society's assets are entrusted to massive corporations lacking any local or national allegiance, and management is removed from real owners by layers of investment
Re: [biofuel] The Wealth of Nature
Hi Keith: Yes, Daly devotes an entire Chapter to Georgescu-Roegen's contributions, pioneering work in the field. As for Adam Smith, I remember thinking, upon a quick look at some of the things he actually wrote, how he'd be spinning in his grave at the way his name is associated with some very ugly ideas that have grown much too large in our present day society. Edward Beggs On Tuesday, May 4, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: How long does lye take to dissolve in methanol
I finally took the step of making a test batch of biodiesel. At least I have attempted to mix teh methoxide. I bought a bottle of HEET gas line antifreeze which is reportedly of a high enough purity to use, and a jar of red devil lye. I mixed about 7 grams of lye to a bit better than 300Ml of Methanol. How long before I have useable methoxide? IO tried looking at Keith's site, but apparently its down tonight or else my browser is having trouble recognizing it. Can you all help me? Thanks! J.D. Hello J.D. Our site was down, it's back now, sorry. See: Mixing the methoxide http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#methmix ... and also I think other sections at the Make your own biodiesel pages. The full ToC is below. Couple of questions though. Are you using virgin oil for your first test batch? What quantity? If not virgin oil, what oil? (Best to start with virgin oil.) These measures seem strange: of red devil lye. I mixed about 7 grams of lye to a bit better than 300Ml of Methanol. 7 grams of lye would either be for two litres of virgin oil or for one litre of WVO titrating at 3.5ml. How did you weigh the lye? Two litres of virgin oil would take 400 ml of methanol, one litre of WVO would take 200 ml of methanol. Could you explain? These don't bode well J.D.: about, a bit better than. It really pays to try to be as precise and meticulous as possible, especially at the beginning. Later when you're more experienced and have a feel for it you'll know which short-cuts you can take wihout risk, or too much risk. At the beginning you're dealing with unknowns. If it doesn't work out as expected, knowing that you've done your best to be precise with measurements and process control will be a great help in trying to figure out what went wrong. Otherwise you'll be faced with too many variables and you'll flounder. Best Keith Make your own biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Three choices 1. Mixing it 2. Straight vegetable oil 3. Biodiesel Biodiesel Where do I start? What's next? The process Our first biodiesel Biodiesel from new oil Biodiesel from waste oil Washing Using biodiesel Safety How much methanol? Ethyl esters -- making ethanol biodiesel Reclaiming excess methanol More about lye How much lye to use? Basic titration Better titration Accurate measurements pH meters Phenolphthalein High FFA levels Deacidifying WVO No titration? The basic lye quantity -- 3.5 grams? Mixing the methoxide Test batches Stock methoxide solution How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? PET bottle mixers Viscosity testing How the process works What are Free Fatty Acids? Which method to use? Quality Quality testing Other uses Identifying plastics Separating glycerine/FFAs Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links I know I screwed up on my measurements, and that's probably why its too soapy to use. I did use virgin oil on this batch and probably will again or some clean wvo. And I'll be more precise with my measurements. i think I used too much lye and that caused too much saponification. I'll let you all know how batch No 2 comes off tonight. J.D. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: oil from algae...
- Dear Kieth and lowell. We have been growing algae of various types for a good number of years starting with Spirulina as a food and then venturing into algaes suitable for lipid production.. First we had to learn to grow algae and came to the level of designing a closed loop system that would allow the production of algaes under a broad range of climatic and geographic conditions in that, we succeeded... we have been growing dunaliela and butyrococcus with success in our research pond here at ecogenics center.. although we have been producing ethanol and methane for many many years and were well aware of the potential of algae for the production of lipids (oils) for biodiesel. we had not, untill very recently ,actually produced biodiesel.. we have now reached that goal with a fair amount of consistancy and are now prepared to enter a new phase in our development program... that is.. the extraction of oil from our algaes and the consequent production of biodiesel from the resulting oils. we are soon embarking on a program of study involving extraction techniques and after that will undertake the necessary steps to make biodiesel from those oils.We are taking very cautious baby steps towards that goal.financial constraints have made it prudent to go slowly and deliberatly in all our endeavours one look at our website and one can see that we have touched upon many areas of RD over the years.we expect that with some wise investment of time and money we will successfully adress the extraction and production phase of the algae to biodiesel program..we will of course keep you posted as to our progressin the meantime we are ready to produce biodiesel from wvo...we have made the necessary modifications to our distillery so we can do this... Marc... -- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lowell A lot of lit on this subject during 1980s. Search on NTIS which is U.S. gov repository for gov funded research. The critters you want info on are called Microalgae not algae and they produce Lipids which you and I call oil. If you want info about getting the oil out of the microalgae search on the net for Lipid Extraction. Most of NTIS research on this is under program called Aquatic Species Program. Try to get 1987 and 1985 reports. Each report cost me at least $30 to $60. Solar Energy Institute in Golden CO. published a neat small report in 1985 called Fuel options from Microalgae dated July 1984. If you get into this you will need to buy quite a few chemicals, some common like Epsom Salt, baking soda and some pretty exotic. If you want to look at houses for your critters search on the net for photobioreactor . Tried this once and failed. Also wife and daughters saw no humor in growing pond scum in the house. May try this one day when I get some space out of the house but am more interested in finding cheap sources of oil seeds. Hope this helps. Good luck. You're not the first to reach that conclusion. Previously a list member set up ponds and so on and was going ahead full-steam but we never heard any more about it. Another list member researched the subject, he had good technical resources, and concluded that it's a waste of time right now, it just isn't there yet, at least not at a doable small-scale level. Marc Carduso of Ecogenics has posted several upbeat messages on the subject in the last few weeks. He's talked of Algae production for food fuel and fertiliser, algaeculture technology for oil production and algae based Living fuel cell technology, and referred list members to his website for further information. www.dabney.com/ecogenics/ I didn't find much information there, maybe I should have looked harder. I saw some photographs that looked to me like water hyacinth and duckweed, nice for greywater/blackwater treatment systems. I guess there's something I'm missing. I'm not being sceptical, just need more info I think. What's not clear to me is whether Marc has actually succeeded in producing lipids from algae in usable form and quantity. When last we heard Marc hadn't made any biodiesel yet but would be doing so soon. I don't know if Marc has made yet biodiesel from algae lipids. Can you tell us a bit more Marc? Meanwhile, personally I take your view Lowell, cheap sources of oil seeds are more interesting. There's huge and very largely unexplored potential in oil-bearing plants, as well as in productive and efficient ways of producing them. For instance, a quick search of James Duke's Handbook of Energy Crops finds 62 legumes, both plants and trees, either of which can be fitted to the cropping and growing patterns on integrated sutainable farms in a variety of ways, perhaps as cover crops, interplanted or undersown, for forage or green manure, earning their keep independently of their oil potential, which would come as a
RE: [biofuel] Re: 78 mercedes 300d
Steve, Found your recommendation for changing injector tips(nozzles) after 75,000 - 100,000 of interest. I have found that atomisation degradation is increased when using SVO. I would expect that the majority of diesel owners would not think to replace injectors until they were having starting/performance problems. I have a 1989 VW Golf mk.II I was given that had issues ticked over very rough. We guessed low compression. Still I decided to pull an injector last week to see what they looked like. Didn't look very bad (as far as carbon build up my Mercedes injectors were far worse when I pulled them), but putting it on the tester showed some dodgy spray. I replaced the full set with increased opening pressures (150 bar, standard should be 130) and low load/starting/tick over have improved greatly - still sounds like one cylinder is slightly of kilter at tick over - but one of the injector bodies is leaking, the sealing surfaces need refacing where they have apparently eroded. I'm interested in what you say about increasing injection pressure for economy. I pumped up the pressure for improved starting/operation with SVO (although I'm currently running biodiesel - or when I can't get it diesel). The higher pressure should provide a finer spray with the more viscous SVO. I'm going to fit the heaters, thicker fuel line and afterglow plugs/relay soon. Can you tell more about the improved efficiency with higher pressures? I've not heard of this before and I have done a fair amount of research into such things. Best Darren Hill www.vegburner.co.uk -Original Message- From: Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 April 2004 23:24 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: 78 mercedes 300d SNIP Change the injector tips. after 75000 to 10 miles they dont atomize well. I often shim or have the injectors shimmed to a higher pop off pressure. Has been a while since I did this.. but seem like I increased the pressure 100 pounds over the original factory issue. It increases the fuel efficiency a 5-10%. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Lye in Canada
Or, you can check out Prolab Scientific 1-800-556-5226 and ask for Mark Malone. He is my contact in Montreal and I am dealing with him for larger quantities of both Sodium Hydroxide and Potassium Hydroxide.Orrr you can email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and get a catalogue. They have all kinds of chemical/scientific stuff (PH meters, vials, pipettes ect...)as well as the gamut of chemicals including sulfuric acid should you decide to go the two stage method in future. One reason you may be having trouble finding lye is that it goes under a bunch of different names and the one you are searching for is unfamiliar to that area. Potassium Hydroxide and it's synonyms: http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PO/potassium_hydroxide.html Sodium Hydroxide and it's synonyms: http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/SO/sodium_hydroxide.html I aslo had trouble getting it and that is why I ended up at Prolab and Mark has been VERY helpful, knows what I want it for and seems genuinely interested(curious). Hope this helps. Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, hamiltonjohndavid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi again. Finding lye in Canada can be a pain. I finally tracked a good source down at Home Hardware here on the east coast. Gillette's Lye is available in small bottles at HH and is expensive. HH has their own brand called Home Lye Crystals and comes in a 3k container for about 18$. Hope this is helpful. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Processing plan?
Hi Mohamed Hassan, Great to hear that you are able to help. We are thinking of making 100,000 mt of biodiesel plant. What would be your advise. Thank you JP lannin mohamed hassan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i am more than happy to design a system for you M.Hassan Rutherford hall Sub warden Loughborough university Loughborough LE113TU UK 0044 7939471848 --- Ocbe, Emrah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We make a small plan to produce biodiesel.If you write to us.We can help you -Original Message- From: Steven Brimhall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 9:24 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Processing plan? I looking for a good set of plans by which I can process 20+ Gal of Bio per week. I have access to an unlimited supply of WVO but need a proven set of plans to build off of. Any suggestions. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] sound file: radio show interview: make your own biodiesel
http://evworld.com/view.cfm?section=articlestoryid=687 You have to click on the Windows Media Player link. I am unable to make the real player link work, though that may be my setup. Once you start listening, there is about 1 minute of worthless music, and then the radio show begins. I'm listening to the interview now. I think the person interviewed has a web page here: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Study: Shoppers Deserting Supermarkets
Heh. Looks like the AP news service made a small error. May 3 Clarification: Cheaper Shoppers Story CHICAGO (AP) -- In a story May 2, The Associated Press reported that financially pressed consumers were willing to spend less on food in order to pay for gasoline, according to a survey by the Food Marketing Institute. The institute's report said that high oil prices, both at the pump and for home heating, were depressing consumers' ability to spend more, but did not specify where that added spending would have occurred. The institute said it had no evidence that consumers were choosing to spend less for food in order to pay for gasoline. Copyright 2004 Associated Press. All rights reserved. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With Apologies to Mr. Dreyfuss for quoting the whole thing, but AP does a poor job through yahoo of archiving articles, and I don't want this to be deleted after a few weeks, which is their wont. Some interesting introductory thinking to how American consumers are presently seeing the motor fuel-vs.-food-purchase equations. MM http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=50 9ncid=718e=5u=/ap/20040502/ap_on_bi_ge/cheaper_shoppers Study: Shoppers Deserting Supermarkets Sun May 2, 7:06 PM ET Add Business - AP to My Yahoo! By IRA DREYFUSS, Associated Press Writer CHICAGO - For financially pressed consumers, it's coming down to a choice between spending on gasoline or groceries, and gasoline is winning, a food industry analysis finds. Given the economic environment, it is not surprising that more shoppers are buying food today in discount stores and other low-price venues than ever before, said the report by the Food Marketing Institute, released at the organization's annual trade show in Chicago. High oil prices, both at the pump and for home heating, depress consumers' ability to spend more, the study said. Gasoline prices have been soaring: about 35 cents a gallon since December, driven by surging crude oil prices, according to gasoline industry analyst Trilby Lundberg. The food industry report said the fuel price increases are tightening the pressure on personal budgets that already were squeezed hard by credit card bills. In 2003, for the second consecutive year, we detected among consumers that minus inflation, minus inflation, they are managing to buy their groceries for less than they did last year, Michael Sansolo, FMI's senior vice president, told the group's opening conference Sunday. Consumers feel the financial pain and are acting to ease it by finding cheaper places to spend on food, said the FMI report, citing a survey commissioned by the trade group. The survey of more than 500 people telephoned randomly in January had a margin of error of 4.5 percentage points. As a result, supermarkets are losing their hold on their customers, who can go to other retailers such as discount stores, the survey said. The proportion of respondents who said a supermarket was their primary food store fell by 5 percentage points since a year earlier, to 72 percent. The share of shoppers who considered a discount store their first choice rose by 4 percentage points, to 21 percent. The report also said shoppers are finding other ways to be more careful in their spending. More shoppers said they were comparison shopping, looking in newspapers for sales,using coupons and rebates, stocking up on bargains even if they don't need the items right away, and buying only what was on their grocery lists. More shoppers also were keeping grocery lists, the survey found. For all that work, however, the average grocery bills that the survey respondents reported showed little change. The average weekly bill fell $1, to $90, from January of 2003. Working against the desire to save money was the desire to save time, something else that modern America has all too little of. The survey showed an increase in purchases of precooked foods, which cost more than the ingredients for from-scratch meals. The trend toward timesaving convenience foods from precooked pasta to cereal bars continues, the report said. ___ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
RE: [biofuel] sound file: radio show interview: make your own biodiesel
Worth a listen, thanks for posting it. Ryan -Original Message- From: murdoch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] sound file: radio show interview: make your own biodiesel http://evworld.com/view.cfm?section=articlestoryid=687 You have to click on the Windows Media Player link. I am unable to make the real player link work, though that may be my setup. Once you start listening, there is about 1 minute of worthless music, and then the radio show begins. I'm listening to the interview now. I think the person interviewed has a web page here: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Advil Bottle Bubbler
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 5/3/04 10:30 AM, hamiltonjohndavid at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had a look at the bottom of a bottle of Advil and realized that it's made of HDPE 2. Perfect! I pricked about 50 minute holes in with the smallest pin I could find, drilled a hole through the cap and ran the tubing through and attached what was left of the stone (the airtube attachment) then I filled the bottle with a bunch of stainless nuts for weight Ingenious! I love it ... this is exactly the sort of techno- logical advance that I really appreciate from the homebrew biodiesel community. You made my day! -K Thanks! J. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] USDA Limits Green Payments, Is Accused of Skimping
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=4u=/nm/20040504/sc_nm/environment_farm_dc Tue May 4,11:26 AM ET Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo! By Charles Abbott WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government will choose 3,000 to 5,000 farmers in several river drainage areas to receive the first green payments for practicing environmentally friendly farming, Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman said on Tuesday. Not TV -- HDTV Learn what you need to know about HDTV, understand how the technology works and see who has the best HDTV content. But an environmental group has criticized the plan, saying the program should be open immediately to all producers. The Conservation Security Program was created by the 2002 farm subsidy law to encourage care of the 1.5 million square miles of the nation's working fields, ranges and woodlots. Most of the USDA's other conservation programs pay farmers to idle fragile land. Regulations should be unveiled within weeks to launch the new conservation program, said a spokeswoman for the USDA's Natural Resources Conservation Service. A sign-up will be held this summer so farmers and ranchers can volunteer for the program. It will start in a limited number of high-priority watersheds and rotate over an eight-year period across the country. Ferd Hoefner of the Sustainable Agriculture Coalition, an activist group, said USDA was limiting access to a program that Congress wanted open to all producers. The administration is now declaring its intent to deny the country's best conservation farmers the opportunity to participate ... unless they are lucky enough to live in a selected watershed, Hoefner said. Their exclusionary approach is at odds with the law. With $41 million available for this fiscal year, only a small number of contracts can be written, USDA said. There are 1.8 million farms in the United States. Watersheds are nature's boundaries and are a good way to group together producers working on similar environmental issues, Veneman said in a statement. Along with dividing the nation into watersheds, USDA said it would set enrollment categories to identify the worthiest projects. The categories will gauge each farm's current stewardship and willingness to adopt additional conservation practices. Hoefner said the selection process was overly complicated because Congress placed no limits on the new conservation program after this fiscal year. The Bush administration, however, has requested $209 million for fiscal 2005 and Veneman said budget pressures may force a new spending lid. Under USDA's criteria, the top category for cropland would go to land already using a high number of conservation practices, with an operator willing to apply two new techniques and ready to conduct on-farm research or demonstration of conservation practices. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biodiesel business
On Mon, 03 May 2004 15:32:47 -0400, you wrote: Sorry if that last email got sent... Anyway, Hello I'm currently a student (studying business) and I want to make some money with biodiesel. For starteers, I want to convince my school to run their diesel fleet off bio. However, i have absolutly no knowledge about setting up a biodiesel business. Has anybody done this? Either distribution or small-scale manufacturing? Thanks, Tomas Novickas In addition to what you may learn in this group, there is another group recently set up by Girl Mark, a participant here, where small-scale biodiesel business issues are discussed: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/local-b100-biz/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] E-85 rollout was biodiesel business *#
Dear Murdoch, I think the subsidy the controlling factor in the failure to introduce E-85 across the country. I believe that the subsidy to the blender is 5.8 cents a gallon of finished product here in the U.S.A. So, the E-10 has, in effect, a subsidy of 58 cents a gallon of ethanol. The E-85 has, in effect, a subsidy of 6.8 cents a gallon of ethanol. Therefore, this blend is more expensive at the pump. Please correct me if I am wrong about who gets paid how much by the federal government. Regards, Wendell murdoch wrote: On Mon, 3 May 2004 23:35:47 -0700, you wrote: You bring up a good point. It's hard to find green business people, since there's a lot more money to be made elsewhere. I totally encourage your efforts Tomas. My 2 cents on your question: maybe you could contact other schools that use biodiesel in their fleets and see what they've done. I know they are out there but not sure which ones they are. As for biodiesel business, I have noticed in the past few weeks that: - there are a LOT of homebrewers and co-ops (yay!) - there are NOT a lot of commercial biodiesel suppliers or retail biodiesel stations. Even though in my (very non-MBA) head it seems like a pretty simple and straightforward thing to do commercially (except maybe the government hoops - ASTM standards and all that). I think co-ops and homebrews have their place but a biodiesel station franchise, for example, that uses its profits to add more biodiesel stations, sounds like a fantastic way to leverage capitalism to undermine our dependence on foreign oil. What are the roadblocks preventing biodiesel business from taking off? Lack of green MBAs? OPEC politics? Expensive required EPA testing (I don't understand this issue at all)? Not enough waste veg. oil to meet demand? Not enough diesel passenger cars out there? Seems like if biodiesel were easily available along major commutes in major cities, ordinary folks would gladly pay less per gallon for biodiesel and feel good about themselves for saving the environment and preventing future wars to boot. I think, in addition to the hypotheses you mention, we could question that the fuel distribution and retailing business is a different issue from the fuel production business. If you make a great amount of consistently high-quality biodiesel, where do you go with it? Should we expect the Exxon Station down the street to sell it, and a pump right next to dino diesel? Even if the station owner has his heart in the right place and wants to help us, I question whether there wouldn't be tremendously powerful forces at work preventing him from doing that. I haven't really investigated this at length, but I think this partly explains why it took so long to build E-85 distribution into the U.S. fuel distribution system. In short over-simplification: we're asking petro-sellers to sell the fuel of their competitor, without them having much incentive to do so. It has taken awhile to figure out how to get that to happen. I'll tell ya, I was born an engineer and the acronym MBA always made my stomach turn, but I'd get an MBA in a heartbeat if I knew I could use it to start a biodiesel business from which I could make a decent living. Girl Mark's group was recently started to discuss some small-scale biofuel business issues: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/local-b100-biz/ I tend to agree on initial gut reactions to the MBA acronym. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL
Re: [biofuel] sound file: radio show interview: make your own biodiesel
http://evworld.com/view.cfm?section=articlestoryid=687 You have to click on the Windows Media Player link. I am unable to make the real player link work, though that may be my setup. Once you start listening, there is about 1 minute of worthless music, and then the radio show begins. I'm listening to the interview now. I think the person interviewed has a web page here: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/ Aarghhh! Rudi and his FuelMeister! And his website that's full of nonsense! I strongly urge a list archive search for FuelMeister, a thorough read of the results, and a ready supply of salt to apply to whatever Rudi might tell the radio. Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: E-85 rollout was biodiesel business *#
Wrong. Think of it this way, the subsidy is 54c, for a gallon of (100%) ethanol, irrespective of how it is blended. Ten percent, 5.4c. Twenty percent, 10.8c. Five percent 2.7c. .(per gallon of finished product.) FYI , I think of the subsidy in two ways, at low corn price, the 'subsidy' is a lower price (corn) guarantee, that floats with the wholesale price of gasoline. At high corn prices, -- Due to Forced usage issues--, it sorta looks like a motorist subsidy. RR --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Murdoch, I think the subsidy the controlling factor in the failure to introduce E-85 across the country. I believe that the subsidy to the blender is 5.8 cents a gallon of finished product here in the U.S.A. So, the E-10 has, in effect, a subsidy of 58 cents a gallon of ethanol. The E-85 has, in effect, a subsidy of 6.8 cents a gallon of ethanol. Therefore, this blend is more expensive at the pump. Please correct me if I am wrong about who gets paid how much by the federal government. Regards, Wendell murdoch wrote: On Mon, 3 May 2004 23:35:47 -0700, you wrote: You bring up a good point. It's hard to find green business people, since there's a lot more money to be made elsewhere. I totally encourage your efforts Tomas. My 2 cents on your question: maybe you could contact other schools that use biodiesel in their fleets and see what they've done. I know they are out there but not sure which ones they are. As for biodiesel business, I have noticed in the past few weeks that: - there are a LOT of homebrewers and co-ops (yay!) - there are NOT a lot of commercial biodiesel suppliers or retail biodiesel stations. Even though in my (very non-MBA) head it seems like a pretty simple and straightforward thing to do commercially (except maybe the government hoops - ASTM standards and all that). I think co-ops and homebrews have their place but a biodiesel station franchise, for example, that uses its profits to add more biodiesel stations, sounds like a fantastic way to leverage capitalism to undermine our dependence on foreign oil. What are the roadblocks preventing biodiesel business from taking off? Lack of green MBAs? OPEC politics? Expensive required EPA testing (I don't understand this issue at all)? Not enough waste veg. oil to meet demand? Not enough diesel passenger cars out there? Seems like if biodiesel were easily available along major commutes in major cities, ordinary folks would gladly pay less per gallon for biodiesel and feel good about themselves for saving the environment and preventing future wars to boot. I think, in addition to the hypotheses you mention, we could question that the fuel distribution and retailing business is a different issue from the fuel production business. If you make a great amount of consistently high-quality biodiesel, where do you go with it? Should we expect the Exxon Station down the street to sell it, and a pump right next to dino diesel? Even if the station owner has his heart in the right place and wants to help us, I question whether there wouldn't be tremendously powerful forces at work preventing him from doing that. I haven't really investigated this at length, but I think this partly explains why it took so long to build E-85 distribution into the U.S. fuel distribution system. In short over-simplification: we're asking petro-sellers to sell the fuel of their competitor, without them having much incentive to do so. It has taken awhile to figure out how to get that to happen. I'll tell ya, I was born an engineer and the acronym MBA always made my stomach turn, but I'd get an MBA in a heartbeat if I knew I could use it to start a biodiesel business from which I could make a decent living. Girl Mark's group was recently started to discuss some small-scale biofuel business issues: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/local-b100-biz/ I tend to agree on initial gut reactions to the MBA acronym. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do
Re: [biofuel] Advil
I had a look at the bottom of a bottle of Advil So what's an advil when it's at home? Hello Go A brand-name for ibuprofen, a NSAID pain-killer (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug). Or at least that's what it is when it's at home - I didn't realise it's a common household item. Pain is a common household item? I suppose so. :-/ (Unless it's what a blacksmith uses when he's caught a cold... but that wouldn't make a very good bubbler.) I guess a lot of pills and vitamins and so on come in HDPE bottles, any of them would do. Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] biodiesel business
Hello JP Hi Eva, We are planning to have a bio-diesel plant in Malaysia and thinking of making our product cheaper cos' we are a third world country with amble supply of crude palm oil. We are currently studying various proposal using our feedstock as crude palm oil. Have you managed to make any biodiesel from crude palm oil yet? FFA levels range from 9-22%, not so easy. You might have to refine it first anyway. Also the beta-carotene content can interfere with the reaction in some processes. Best Keith Interested to assist as to make this commercially viable for the green engine. Thank you. JP snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: oil from algae...
Hello Marc Glad you've passed the first hurdles with making biodiesel, good for you. Thanks for the information, and please do keep us informed of your progress, especially with extracting oil from the algae for biodiesel. Best wishes Keith Dear Kieth and lowell. We have been growing algae of various types for a good number of years starting with Spirulina as a food and then venturing into algaes suitable for lipid production.. First we had to learn to grow algae and came to the level of designing a closed loop system that would allow the production of algaes under a broad range of climatic and geographic conditions in that, we succeeded... we have been growing dunaliela and butyrococcus with success in our research pond here at ecogenics center.. although we have been producing ethanol and methane for many many years and were well aware of the potential of algae for the production of lipids (oils) for biodiesel. we had not, untill very recently ,actually produced biodiesel.. we have now reached that goal with a fair amount of consistancy and are now prepared to enter a new phase in our development program... that is.. the extraction of oil from our algaes and the consequent production of biodiesel from the resulting oils. we are soon embarking on a program of study involving extraction techniques and after that will undertake the necessary steps to make biodiesel from those oils.We are taking very cautious baby steps towards that goal.financial constraints have made it prudent to go slowly and deliberatly in all our endeavours one look at our website and one can see that we have touched upon many areas of RD over the years.we expect that with some wise investment of time and money we will successfully adress the extraction and production phase of the algae to biodiesel program..we will of course keep you posted as to our progressin the meantime we are ready to produce biodiesel from wvo...we have made the necessary modifications to our distillery so we can do this... Marc... -- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lowell A lot of lit on this subject during 1980s. Search on NTIS which is U.S. gov repository for gov funded research. The critters you want info on are called Microalgae not algae and they produce Lipids which you and I call oil. If you want info about getting the oil out of the microalgae search on the net for Lipid Extraction. Most of NTIS research on this is under program called Aquatic Species Program. Try to get 1987 and 1985 reports. Each report cost me at least $30 to $60. Solar Energy Institute in Golden CO. published a neat small report in 1985 called Fuel options from Microalgae dated July 1984. If you get into this you will need to buy quite a few chemicals, some common like Epsom Salt, baking soda and some pretty exotic. If you want to look at houses for your critters search on the net for photobioreactor . Tried this once and failed. Also wife and daughters saw no humor in growing pond scum in the house. May try this one day when I get some space out of the house but am more interested in finding cheap sources of oil seeds. Hope this helps. Good luck. You're not the first to reach that conclusion. Previously a list member set up ponds and so on and was going ahead full-steam but we never heard any more about it. Another list member researched the subject, he had good technical resources, and concluded that it's a waste of time right now, it just isn't there yet, at least not at a doable small-scale level. Marc Carduso of Ecogenics has posted several upbeat messages on the subject in the last few weeks. He's talked of Algae production for food fuel and fertiliser, algaeculture technology for oil production and algae based Living fuel cell technology, and referred list members to his website for further information. www.dabney.com/ecogenics/ I didn't find much information there, maybe I should have looked harder. I saw some photographs that looked to me like water hyacinth and duckweed, nice for greywater/blackwater treatment systems. I guess there's something I'm missing. I'm not being sceptical, just need more info I think. What's not clear to me is whether Marc has actually succeeded in producing lipids from algae in usable form and quantity. When last we heard Marc hadn't made any biodiesel yet but would be doing so soon. I don't know if Marc has made yet biodiesel from algae lipids. Can you tell us a bit more Marc? Meanwhile, personally I take your view Lowell, cheap sources of oil seeds are more interesting. There's huge and very largely unexplored potential in oil-bearing plants, as well as in productive and efficient ways of producing them. For instance, a quick search of James Duke's Handbook of Energy Crops finds 62 legumes, both plants and trees, either of which can be fitted to the cropping and growing
[biofuel] grants for biodiesel
Does anyone know of grants or other sources of free or low-interest funding that would aid someone interested in starting a small biodiesel production business, non-profit or otherwise? Eva Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] sound file: radio show interview: make your own biodiesel
I own a FuelMeister. It works great and is a well developed product. Rudi has been very helpfull. What is your problem? - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] sound file: radio show interview: make your own biodiesel http://evworld.com/view.cfm?section=articlestoryid=687 You have to click on the Windows Media Player link. I am unable to make the real player link work, though that may be my setup. Once you start listening, there is about 1 minute of worthless music, and then the radio show begins. I'm listening to the interview now. I think the person interviewed has a web page here: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/ Aarghhh! Rudi and his FuelMeister! And his website that's full of nonsense! I strongly urge a list archive search for FuelMeister, a thorough read of the results, and a ready supply of salt to apply to whatever Rudi might tell the radio. Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (fwd) Two Thumbs Down for Climate Change
I didn't know about this movie until I saw this post, so I guess it will be interesting if the movie is well done and has some credibility or not. MM On Wed, 05 May 2004 09:52:39 -0700, Jason Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All: As you may know, on Memorial Day weekend the first Hollywood blockbuster about climate change will open at theaters worldwide. The film is certainly science fiction, but as we know all-too-well, the threats of global warming are in fact very real. This is a great opportunity for us to reach tens thousands of the ÒunconvertedÓ and raise some public awareness about the dangers of our oil addiction. Below you will find a call to action from Global Exchange and Rainforest Action Network urging folks to hand out leaflets at the film screenings. Hopefully some of you will want to join us in educating movie goers. Please send the alert far and wide to other people who you will would be interested in leafleting at the movies. Thanks!! Jason Mark Clean Car Campaigner Global Exchange Two Thumbs Down for Climate Destruction Go to the Movies to Stop Global Warming Hollywood Science Fiction a Great Chance to Spread the Facts About Global Warming When: Friday, May 28 Ð Monday, May 31 (or longer) Where: At Your Local Movie Theater What: Distribute Leaflets About the Realities of Climate Chaos and Spur People to Action Why: On Friday, May 28 the blockbuster climate disaster movie ÒThe Day After TomorrowÓ will open in theaters around the world. This is the first major studio film to address the issue of human-driven climate change, and therefore offers an unprecedented opportunity to reach people who are unaware of the threats posed by global warming. By adopting a theater and passing out eye-catching postcards to movie goers, you can help educate thousands of Americans about the realities of global warming and give them ways to contribute to positive change. From coast to coast we need your help to distribute flyers, get petition signatures, and give moviegoers an opportunity to take action. In addition, we can help you organize after-movie parties and discussion groups the opening week of the film. Although it may take a Hollywood-style weather disaster to spur public concern over climate change, we can use this as a chance to build the movement for a sustainable economy. Already government officials are trying to shut down dialogue. On April 1, NASA employees were sent e-mail message by the agencyÕs top press officer that said, No one from NASA is to do interviews or otherwise comment on anything having to do with [the film]. We will not be silent. With your help we will spread the word across the country that the impacts of climate change are already wreaking havoc on ecosystems and human communities across the planet, endangering our security, our economy and our health. This does not have to be a ton of workÑbut it can be a ton of fun. ItÕs as easy as getting three or four friends together to go see the film, and then before and after the screening passing out postcards to your fellow movie goers as they enter or leave the auditorium. Please join us today. You can start by filling out the action form below and then returning it to: ¥ Jason Mark, Global Exchange, [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 415-558-9490 OR ¥ Tara Wolfson, Rainforest Action Newtork, [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 415.398.4404 For more information, please visit: http://www.jumpstartford.com Thank you for your efforts to create a truly sustainable economy! YES! I want to help spread the truth about global warming at ÒThe Day After TomorrowÓ screenings. Name: Phone: Address: Movie Theaters Near You: Name of theater: Address of theater: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] sound file: radio show interview: make your own biodiesel
Hello Chuck I own a FuelMeister. It works great and is a well developed product. Rudi has been very helpfull. What is your problem? My problem? I don't have a problem. You do though. You have a very short memory too. I recommended an archive search, and I'm not going to do it for you. What you'll find if you can be bothered to do it yourself is a LOT of valid criticism of the FuelMeister, of Rudi and of the very bad information at his website. The FuelMeister was aptly described as a joke, a bad joke, a very expensive bad joke. This is all news to you? That would be strange. What you'll also find is that all three, FuelMeister, Rudi, and website, were defended by you, and only by you I think, but not defended at all effectively - AND that what you didn't say then, and aren't saying now, is that you sell the things. So what's the problem? You are, partly. The FuelMeister is still a bad joke - $3,000 worth of junk. As for its being a well developed product, which was what you said last time too, at least one person who bought one has spent another couple of thousand on it, throwing good money after bad it seems because his results still seem very questionable to say the least. And Rudi's website is still fraught with bad information. And I guess you're still trying to sell FuelMeisters and being defensive about it. Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] sound file: radio show interview: make your own biodiesel http://evworld.com/view.cfm?section=articlestoryid=687 You have to click on the Windows Media Player link. I am unable to make the real player link work, though that may be my setup. Once you start listening, there is about 1 minute of worthless music, and then the radio show begins. I'm listening to the interview now. I think the person interviewed has a web page here: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/ Aarghhh! Rudi and his FuelMeister! And his website that's full of nonsense! I strongly urge a list archive search for FuelMeister, a thorough read of the results, and a ready supply of salt to apply to whatever Rudi might tell the radio. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. br Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! br http://companion.yahoo.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] sound file: radio show interview: make your own biodiesel
My question is, why is Joshua Tickell pimping for Rudi's FuelMeister joke? What is he getting out of it? Chris Keith Addison wrote: Hello Chuck I own a FuelMeister. It works great and is a well developed product. Rudi has been very helpfull. What is your problem? My problem? I don't have a problem. You do though. You have a very short memory too. I recommended an archive search, and I'm not going to do it for you. What you'll find if you can be bothered to do it yourself is a LOT of valid criticism of the FuelMeister, of Rudi and of the very bad information at his website. The FuelMeister was aptly described as a joke, a bad joke, a very expensive bad joke. This is all news to you? That would be strange. What you'll also find is that all three, FuelMeister, Rudi, and website, were defended by you, and only by you I think, but not defended at all effectively - AND that what you didn't say then, and aren't saying now, is that you sell the things. So what's the problem? You are, partly. The FuelMeister is still a bad joke - $3,000 worth of junk. As for its being a well developed product, which was what you said last time too, at least one person who bought one has spent another couple of thousand on it, throwing good money after bad it seems because his results still seem very questionable to say the least. And Rudi's website is still fraught with bad information. And I guess you're still trying to sell FuelMeisters and being defensive about it. Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. br Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! br http://companion.yahoo.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
