Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Hi Steven, Look at this: http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/orbits/ the result is very similar to your simulations. mic 2012/8/10 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net: Hey Steven, the website is looking very nice; and enjoyed perusing your artwork… So that’s what happened to Kinkade!! And when I come back for another round on this physical plain, I want to get a speeding ticket on the galactic highway! Most talented you be… Oh, some of the orbital forms sure seem strange and totally unexpected… we’re so used to seeing boring mostly circular orbits that it would be fascinating to see one like your simulations… are you aware of any (from astronomers papers) that might be very non-circular? -mark From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson [mailto:orionwo...@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 7:01 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy Would you mind giving us a short preview of the higher power effects you simulated. I did a similar thing once and all I recall is that the second order drop with distance was the only one that was stable in orbits. My simulation was a bit crude at the time so I am asking you for your observations. Thanks. Hi Dave, Against my better judgment I have decided to give a small preview. Check out: http://test.orionworks.com/ As you might have guessed this is one of the sub-domain locations where I'm in the midst of performing a major overhaul of my entire web site. THIS LOCATION IS A TEST SITE! EVERYTHING IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION! Lots of links here don't work, or work incorrectly. Things here are constantly subject to change without notice as I experiment fiddle about with this and that feature. Here today… gone tomorrow. The celestial mechanics animation is a multi-framed gif file. I chose using an animated GIF file in this situation over flash because flash is not supported on Apple's IPad platform... at least not officially. It's a shame. I believe this particular animation involved three factors: a positive force 1/r (NOT 1/r^2) a negative/repulsive 1/r^3 force and an external constant force that was gradually built up over a series of animations. It was the external force that changed over the entire simulation run. Everything else remained a constant, so to speak. The external force is gradually building up from the bottom of the picture. As the force builds upward it gradually forces the orbiting satellite to gyrate (wiggle and dance!) upwards. Eventually it pops out of the picture! What astonished me as I ran these simulations were the number of unexpected bifurcations that would suddenly manifest when I least expected it. Many, MANY of my simulations exhibited an astonishing number of unexpected bifurcations. I have generated many other simulations that produce far more interesting effects, and beauty. Hopefully before the end of the year I’ll have a few additional things out there… We’ll see how it goes. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Look at this: http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/orbits/ the result is very similar to your simulations. Thanks Michele. Yes, I've generated simulations very similar to what is shown here. This particular run looks to me as if the algorithm used 1/r^3 (a cube value) to generate the orbital plot. When I ran those type of formulas I noticed it was extremely difficult to achieve a stable orbital period. Typically the satellite would spiral out of control in no time. The tracks left reminded me of the vapor trails one observes in a cloud chamber. The graphic showing the Effective Potential is very revealing. I recently re-discovered that phenomenon as well. You can plot orbital periods on a time plot based on Effective Potential rules. I think an individual named Miles Mathis noticed something similar to this as well. He wrote about it in his self-published book. However, IMHO, I think Miles got his facts wrong! Many think he is a crank. This is a very informative web site. Thanks! Terry, other runs algorithms I've experimented with imitate something akin to what looks like an electron cloud much more than this example. There is s much more to do. I've only scratched the surface. Mark, Kinkade recently died of an overdose of taking prescription drugs presumably from pain he was experiencing. I hope he is in a better place now. Perhaps when he recycles back he will be an artist one more time, but this time he will allow himself to follow his heart as compared to following his bank account. I thought Kinkade was a talented artist who ended up wasting the bulk of his talent churning out the same theme over and over. Well, he made a ton of money, but I wonder if he was really all that happy. Dave, as for me I've tried to keep my plots very simple, involving just a single attractive gravitational nucleus and a single orbiting satellite. But look at the incredible complexity I've stumbled across working with just two objects! I've often wondered what it would be like to plot an entire solar system. Looks like you worked more on the macro level whereas I'm currently working more on a micro/atomic level. More to do... more to do... scurry, scurry scurry! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Not sure if this is relevant but have wondered if the same discount to disassociation I am positing for fractional molecules being moved between different suppression regions /geometries would also exist for molecules moved between different inertial frames like the event horizon in your simulation and normal space-time. My point being Casimir force / suppression are doing exactly the same manipulation of the isotropy that we normally attribute to the square law of gravity only at a much faster cube law rate when the geometry is correct.. I know DiFiore et all were unable to accumulate any gravitational effects with their stacked cavity experiments but a relativistic interpretation of Casimir effect would lead one to view the effect as a segregation and the concentration of the suppressed area inside the cavity is balanced by a much weaker but larger region where the isotropy is instead enhanced. This would cancel out the gravitational bias they were attempting to generate. I think they needed to introduce gas and confinement schemes in this environment because the size and shape of gas atoms will lend an inherent bias to which type of suppression regions the gas prefers to migrate through and once the gas is loaded there isn't a price to circulate the gas between regions - it is provided by nature - the same force that keeps gas from freezing at absolute zero and which can't be exploited in normal space can be harnessed when you have these sudden breaches in isotropy. Fran -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson [mailto:orionwo...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 8:54 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy Look at this: http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/orbits/ the result is very similar to your simulations. Thanks Michele. Yes, I've generated simulations very similar to what is shown here. This particular run looks to me as if the algorithm used 1/r^3 (a cube value) to generate the orbital plot. When I ran those type of formulas I noticed it was extremely difficult to achieve a stable orbital period. Typically the satellite would spiral out of control in no time. The tracks left reminded me of the vapor trails one observes in a cloud chamber. The graphic showing the Effective Potential is very revealing. I recently re-discovered that phenomenon as well. You can plot orbital periods on a time plot based on Effective Potential rules. I think an individual named Miles Mathis noticed something similar to this as well. He wrote about it in his self-published book. However, IMHO, I think Miles got his facts wrong! Many think he is a crank. This is a very informative web site. Thanks! Terry, other runs algorithms I've experimented with imitate something akin to what looks like an electron cloud much more than this example. There is s much more to do. I've only scratched the surface. Mark, Kinkade recently died of an overdose of taking prescription drugs presumably from pain he was experiencing. I hope he is in a better place now. Perhaps when he recycles back he will be an artist one more time, but this time he will allow himself to follow his heart as compared to following his bank account. I thought Kinkade was a talented artist who ended up wasting the bulk of his talent churning out the same theme over and over. Well, he made a ton of money, but I wonder if he was really all that happy. Dave, as for me I've tried to keep my plots very simple, involving just a single attractive gravitational nucleus and a single orbiting satellite. But look at the incredible complexity I've stumbled across working with just two objects! I've often wondered what it would be like to plot an entire solar system. Looks like you worked more on the macro level whereas I'm currently working more on a micro/atomic level. More to do... more to do... scurry, scurry scurry! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Hi Steven (SVJ) and Michele, John Walker was very helpful to me in the early days of Autodesk. In those days John was Autodesk. We shared a strong interest in microcomputer based graphics. I particularly like his short story Einstein, Heisenberg, and Tipler. http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/eht.html George Holz Varitronics Systems geo...@varisys.com
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Hi George, Love the short-story, thx for providing the link. Went browsing around Fourmilab.ch and found this, also by John Walker, in May of 1989: http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/sftriple/nanofuse.html Is john still around? And if so, does he realize how prescient he was? I wonder if it's in lenr.org -Mark -Original Message- From: George Holz [mailto:geh...@optonline.net] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 9:26 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy Hi Steven (SVJ) and Michele, John Walker was very helpful to me in the early days of Autodesk. In those days John was Autodesk. We shared a strong interest in microcomputer based graphics. I particularly like his short story Einstein, Heisenberg, and Tipler. http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/eht.html George Holz Varitronics Systems geo...@varisys.com
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
“Quantum nonlocality is a bug.” :-) mic 2012/8/10 George Holz geh...@optonline.net: Hi Steven (SVJ) and Michele, John Walker was very helpful to me in the early days of Autodesk. In those days John was Autodesk. We shared a strong interest in microcomputer based graphics. I particularly like his short story Einstein, Heisenberg, and Tipler. http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/eht.html George Holz Varitronics Systems geo...@varisys.com
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: “Quantum nonlocality is a bug.” :-) A real programmer would have called it an undocumented feature. T
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Terry sez: A real programmer would have called it an undocumented feature. Back in the mid 1980s, at the Space Astronomy Lab, University of Wisconsin, where I worked as a ground support computer programmer, we would just say: Everything is nominal. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:31 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Terry sez: A real programmer would have called it an undocumented feature. Back in the mid 1980s, at the Space Astronomy Lab, University of Wisconsin, where I worked as a ground support computer programmer, we would just say: Everything is nominal. LOL! We engineers considered specifications with the trailer .nom to be hogwash. In name only. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nominal?s=t T
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Hi Mark, Fourmilab.ch is John's web site. He has a vast range of interests. He was president of Autodesk for decades. He was IMO their best programmer as well. When he left for Switzerland where he now lives his stock was worth 10's of millions. We have not been directly in touch for at least 20 years, but I see that the last update of the web site was last month. George -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 1:52 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy Hi George, Love the short-story, thx for providing the link. Went browsing around Fourmilab.ch and found this, also by John Walker, in May of 1989: http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/sftriple/nanofuse.html Is john still around? And if so, does he realize how prescient he was? I wonder if it's in lenr.org -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Jo: 1. Go http://www.freepistonpower.com/fp3.aspx 2. Replace cylinder + head with Rohner engine parts. 3. Rohner Engineering make custom 100 kw model. 4. $12,800,000.00 5. Outsource work to CA engineering firm G. Cheap, Chung From: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, August 8, 2012, 10:09 PM I am asking what the missing piece is? Why don't I see a Papp engine being sold anywhere? It's been 30 years, right? When something is said to be real and is taking more than 30 years to commercialize; I don't know about you but that raises a few questions in my mind. The same criticism goes for Randal Mills and others. What is the holdup? Rossi is not taking more than 30 years so he has a bit more credibility. Can I buy a fully functional engine from Rohner right now? An engine that I can hook to my 2KW generator so that I can have free power? And yes, I did see your post but a kit is a far cry from a fully functional engine. Why doesn't he sell a fully functional engine? I am prepared to buy one now if he has one for sale even it it is not certified. Jojo PS. As for badmouthing Bambi, it is never a waste of time to correct the criminal actions of a usurper-in-chief. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Judging from the tone of your criticism of my badmouthing of bambi, that you think I am out of place and unfair to do so? - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine John Rehner has done the same thing that Robert Godes founder of Brillouin Energy has done; create a nanoeceond high power elecric pulse controller. Like any engine, timing is all important. With proper timing the engine will run will with little or no bad nuclear byproducts. What John Rehner wants to sell is his control boards, his freqency generator, and his spark controller. The cost of his engine in mass production is $300. It can be built mostly of plastic. Rohner is hoping the customers will buy his stuff rather than build the engine on their own. It is open source and not protected in any way since the patent is laped long ago. You saw may post on the kit Rohner sells, right... or were you too occupied in bad mouthing Obama (aka... a waste of time)? See http://www.rohnerengineering.com/pix/OurMBs.jpg Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: Better, are you serious? Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Now I remember... this website looks real familiar; I've seen it before. http://www.rohnerengineering.com/ This Rohner family is a real piece of work... can anyone shed some light on just who is right? Or since patents ran out, are they just trying to make the other look bad so they can get the business??? There are three Rohner's involved here, John, Tom and Bob. Apparently Bob and Tom had a disagreement with brother John, and split many years ago. And they have been feuding ever since! Tom passed away so it's now John vs Bob... Here is a doc claiming fraud at John's site: http://www.inteligentry.com/_files/Fraud1.pdf I've been involved in a number of startups that were also quite volatile, so this doesn't surprise me, but it makes it difficult to ascertain who's jivin' who... John has a patent, so does than make him the leader??? http://www.google.com/patents/US20110113772.pdf What we don't need is more drama... anybody have a drama vacuum cleaner? -Mark Iverson
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
From: Axil These guys don't write things down, they use videos and interviews to communicate, this makes research difficult. I was under the impression that the coil is always active and is not switched off and on. J Rohner uses, Scandium at the tip of his anode for some reason. He also uses four cathodes ( cut down spark plugs) at 110,000 volts each. He says they add up to 440,000 V total. I don't understand how this addition of voltage is figured. I hope Mike Carrell is listening in on this topic. He was an electrical engineer during his earlier career. With RCA, I believe. I wonder if Mike might be willing to add his own two-cents as to what is going on here. ...Perhaps more to the point, whether the amount of electrical energy being expended in the discharges, combined with the observed amount of mechanical energy displayed, in truth turns out to balance the energy equations in such a manner as to result in no actual O/U involved. I'm neither an electrical engineer nor a mechanical engineer. It's fascinating, nevertheless. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
The device is a high energy gas particle collider creating quantum singularities (perceived as ball lightning) at the point of the high energy collisions. Since Hawking radiation emits the full spectrum of visible light, that is what they are seeing. On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 8:33 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: From: Axil ** ** These guys don't write things down, they use videos and interviews to communicate, this makes research difficult. I was under the impression that the coil is always active and is not switched off and on. J Rohner uses, Scandium at the tip of his anode for some reason. He also uses four cathodes ( cut down spark plugs) at 110,000 volts each. He says they add up to 440,000 V total. I don't understand how this addition of voltage is figured. I hope Mike Carrell is listening in on this topic. He was an electrical engineer during his earlier career. With RCA, I believe. ** ** I wonder if Mike might be willing to add his own two-cents as to what is going on here. ...Perhaps more to the point, whether the amount of electrical energy being expended in the discharges, combined with the observed amount of mechanical energy displayed, in truth turns out to balance the energy equations in such a manner as to result in no actual O/U involved. ** ** I’m neither an electrical engineer nor a mechanical engineer. It's fascinating, nevertheless. ** ** Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Addendum: The fact that Nobel gasses are involved really baffles me. My limited understanding of chemistry would suggest to me the fact that there shouldn't be any kind of reactive chemistry involved, period. other than ionic excitation such as what we see in neon signs. What the hell is causing what I assume has been accurately measured to be an unusually large amount of mechanical energy, an amount of mechanical energy that has yet to be explained by conventional physics. If McKubre is willing to be have his portrait taken in the accompanying videos, that tells me there must be something going on here really that needs to be taken seriously. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
This is not chemistry. It is high energy particle quantum physics. I believe you can collide just about any gas particles and end up with a collapsed singularity if you add enough energy at point and time of collision. To minimize energy required, use a smaller vessel/voids(down to quantum sizes) and use a simple gas (such as Hydrogen) with just a proton and electron. Once you create the quantum singularity you are then playing with a nuclear furnace... On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 8:46 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Addendum: ** ** The fact that Nobel gasses are involved really baffles me. My limited understanding of chemistry would suggest to me the fact that there shouldn’t be any kind of reactive “chemistry” involved, period… other than ionic excitation such as what we see in neon signs. ** ** What the hell is causing what I assume has been “accurately” measured to be an unusually large amount of mechanical energy, an amount of mechanical energy that has yet to be explained by conventional physics. ** ** If McKubre is willing to be have his portrait taken in the accompanying videos, that tells me there must be something going on here really that needs to be taken seriously. ** ** Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks ** **
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
From: Chemical Engineer This is not chemistry. It is high energy particle quantum physics. I believe you can collide just about any gas particles and end up with a collapsed singularity if you add enough energy at point and time of collision. To minimize energy required, use a smaller vessel/voids(down to quantum sizes) and use a simple gas (such as Hydrogen) with just a proton and electron. Once you create the quantum singularity you are then playing with a nuclear furnace... Hi Chem, I need a refresher course in what is meant by the term quantum singularity. Can you offer up a reasonable description... or at least point me in the right direction? PS: I know Francis has also weighed in here with some interesting explanations involving the exploitation of precise geometry topology and casimir forces. Being graphically oriented, I find such perspectives interesting. I wonder if there is a tie-in with what Francis thinks is happening and what you think might be happening - involving quantum singularities. In any case, both explanations seem to be happening at the quantum level. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
The gas atoms, instead of fusing or reacting chemically are colliding and collapsing into a point source due to high energy at the point of collision and the effect of quantum gravity (which is much larger) at the quantum level. This point source, or black hole radiates back to the surroundings the nuclear goo that universes are made of. The reason quantum gravity is much stronger at the quantum level is because there are thought to be about 11 or so dimensions of space all curled up there. That ball lightning is a quantum singularity(s) evaporating and radiating the full spectrum of Nuclear Goo which is powerful enough to create new universes. Fortunately in this case it evaporates very quickly, primarily releasing radiation that shows up as heat. I just hope that the reason we have not found other intelligent life is that they all got their hands on a quantum singularity engine at some point and stepped on the throttle too hard... On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 9:30 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: From: Chemical Engineer This is not chemistry. It is high energy particle quantum physics. I believe you can collide just about any gas particles and end up with a collapsed singularity if you add enough energy at point and time of collision. To minimize energy required, use a smaller vessel/voids(down to quantum sizes) and use a simple gas (such as Hydrogen) with just a proton and electron. Once you create the quantum singularity you are then playing with a nuclear furnace... Hi Chem, I need a refresher course in what is meant by the term quantum singularity. Can you offer up a reasonable description... or at least point me in the right direction? PS: I know Francis has also weighed in here with some interesting explanations involving the exploitation of precise geometry topology and casimir forces. Being graphically oriented, I find such perspectives interesting. I wonder if there is a tie-in with what Francis thinks is happening and what you think might be happening - involving quantum singularities. In any case, both explanations seem to be happening at the quantum level. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Steven, I suspect that nobel gasses are used for the reason that they can be ionized relatively easily and yet do not enter into chemical structures when they cool. It is a good question that you ask about the mechanical force generation. My first thought is that it is due to the heating of the gasses which results in additional pressure, but there are problems with that explanation. One might ask why there is no degradation to the piston and end cap of the device since the magnetic field from the coil would be axial and most likely would not restrict plasma from going out the ends. I suppose that a time changing field, if that is what they are doing, might induce currents into the conductive piston end and cap which would have some influence upon the plasma, but I am not sure this would eliminate the contact problems. At this point in my understanding, I am not sure the entire thing is not an April fools joke. Can anyone be sure that a truly independent test has been conducted which proves the performance? If this device is for real, it is quite interesting. Dave -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 8:46 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy Addendum: The fact that Nobel gasses are involved really baffles me. My limited understanding of chemistry would suggest to me the fact that there shouldn’t be any kind of reactive “chemistry” involved, period… other than ionic excitation such as what we see in neon signs. What the hell is causing what I assume has been “accurately” measured to be an unusually large amount of mechanical energy, an amount of mechanical energy that has yet to be explained by conventional physics. If McKubre is willing to be have his portrait taken in the accompanying videos, that tells me there must be something going on here really that needs to be taken seriously. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
It seems to me that if the ions are colliding with such energies, fusion should occur first before you can even approach the energies needed to form a singularity. In the Tokamak, the ions are colliding so energetically that it fuses, but a singularity is never formed. Your theory needs to explain why the fusion process is skipped in favor of a more difficult process of forming a singularity. I don't believe you can form a singularity by just colliding ions no matter how hard, unless of course you approach LHC energies. Are you claiming that energies within a lattice can approach the energies in the LHC? But I am willing to be wrong. Do you have the math to show why a singularity is formed instead of the relatively easier process of direct fusion first? If so, please share. Jojo - Original Message - From: Chemical Engineer To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy The gas atoms, instead of fusing or reacting chemically are colliding and collapsing into a point source due to high energy at the point of collision and the effect of quantum gravity (which is much larger) at the quantum level. This point source, or black hole radiates back to the surroundings the nuclear goo that universes are made of. The reason quantum gravity is much stronger at the quantum level is because there are thought to be about 11 or so dimensions of space all curled up there. That ball lightning is a quantum singularity(s) evaporating and radiating the full spectrum of Nuclear Goo which is powerful enough to create new universes. Fortunately in this case it evaporates very quickly, primarily releasing radiation that shows up as heat. I just hope that the reason we have not found other intelligent life is that they all got their hands on a quantum singularity engine at some point and stepped on the throttle too hard... On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 9:30 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: From: Chemical Engineer This is not chemistry. It is high energy particle quantum physics. I believe you can collide just about any gas particles and end up with a collapsed singularity if you add enough energy at point and time of collision. To minimize energy required, use a smaller vessel/voids(down to quantum sizes) and use a simple gas (such as Hydrogen) with just a proton and electron. Once you create the quantum singularity you are then playing with a nuclear furnace... Hi Chem, I need a refresher course in what is meant by the term quantum singularity. Can you offer up a reasonable description... or at least point me in the right direction? PS: I know Francis has also weighed in here with some interesting explanations involving the exploitation of precise geometry topology and casimir forces. Being graphically oriented, I find such perspectives interesting. I wonder if there is a tie-in with what Francis thinks is happening and what you think might be happening - involving quantum singularities. In any case, both explanations seem to be happening at the quantum level. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
You appear to favor quantum singularities. What evidence do you have that they are real? I am not aware that anyone has proven that they exist, and this would be a great time for you to point out some sources of information. I think we should also give consideration to standard physics as we seek an explanation. First, we need to be sure that this thing is real. Dave -Original Message- From: Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 8:56 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy This is not chemistry. It is high energy particle quantum physics. I believe you can collide just about any gas particles and end up with a collapsed singularity if you add enough energy at point and time of collision. To minimize energy required, use a smaller vessel/voids(down to quantum sizes) and use a simple gas (such as Hydrogen) with just a proton and electron. Once you create the quantum singularity you are then playing with a nuclear furnace... On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 8:46 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Addendum: The fact that Nobel gasses are involved really baffles me. My limited understanding of chemistry would suggest to me the fact that there shouldn’t be any kind of reactive “chemistry” involved, period… other than ionic excitation such as what we see in neon signs. What the hell is causing what I assume has been “accurately” measured to be an unusually large amount of mechanical energy, an amount of mechanical energy that has yet to be explained by conventional physics. If McKubre is willing to be have his portrait taken in the accompanying videos, that tells me there must be something going on here really that needs to be taken seriously. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Thanks for the layman's explanation, Chem. I think I actually understood much of what you were trying to describe. Having performed numerous computer simulations that loosely involve the rules attributed to celestial mechanics I have on occasion experimented with incorporating additional powers (i.e. dimensions) into the algorithms. For example, I've incorporated cube powers and 4th powers into some of my computer simulations. The results are interesting. Occasionally unexpected... wildly unexpected! I hope to present some of what I have uncovered before the end of the year over on my OrionWorks website - that is if I can get around to the arduous task of completely overhauling it. I'm in the middle of that mess right now. Regarding your concern as to why we have not yet found other intelligent life in the Universe. As Arthur Clark once quipped, and I'm paraphrasing here: Quasars are nothing more than industrial accidents. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Well, Now that I have thought about it some more, if you look out into space and see millions of galaxies rotating around singularities, within that singularity is probably the last civilization in that part of the universe that had a Quantum Singularity device operated by Rossi... I hope that I am wrong. On Thursday, August 9, 2012, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: Thanks for the layman's explanation, Chem. I think I actually understood much of what you were trying to describe. Having performed numerous computer simulations that loosely involve the rules attributed to celestial mechanics I have on occasion experimented with incorporating additional powers (i.e. dimensions) into the algorithms. For example, I've incorporated cube powers and 4th powers into some of my computer simulations. The results are interesting. Occasionally unexpected... wildly unexpected! I hope to present some of what I have uncovered before the end of the year over on my OrionWorks website - that is if I can get around to the arduous task of completely overhauling it. I'm in the middle of that mess right now. Regarding your concern as to why we have not yet found other intelligent life in the Universe. As Arthur Clark once quipped, and I'm paraphrasing here: Quasars are nothing more than industrial accidents. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Hi Steven, Would you mind giving us a short preview of the higher power effects you simulated. I did a similar thing once and all I recall is that the second order drop with distance was the only one that was stable in orbits. My simulation was a bit crude at the time so I am asking you for your observations. Thanks. Dave -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 11:14 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy Thanks for the layman's explanation, Chem. I think I actually understood much of what you were trying to describe. Having performed numerous computer simulations that loosely involve the rules attributed to celestial mechanics I have on occasion experimented with incorporating additional powers (i.e. dimensions) into the algorithms. For example, I've incorporated cube powers and 4th powers into some of my computer simulations. The results are interesting. Occasionally unexpected... wildly unexpected! I hope to present some of what I have uncovered before the end of the year over on my OrionWorks website - that is if I can get around to the arduous task of completely overhauling it. I'm in the middle of that mess right now. Regarding your concern as to why we have not yet found other intelligent life in the Universe. As Arthur Clark once quipped, and I'm paraphrasing here: Quasars are nothing more than industrial accidents. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Would you mind giving us a short preview of the higher power effects you simulated. I did a similar thing once and all I recall is that the second order drop with distance was the only one that was stable in orbits. My simulation was a bit crude at the time so I am asking you for your observations. Thanks. Hi Dave, Against my better judgment I have decided to give a small preview. Check out: http://test.orionworks.com/ As you might have guessed this is one of the sub-domain locations where I'm in the midst of performing a major overhaul of my entire web site. THIS LOCATION IS A TEST SITE! EVERYTHING IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION! Lots of links here don't work, or work incorrectly. Things here are constantly subject to change without notice as I experiment fiddle about with this and that feature. Here today. gone tomorrow. The celestial mechanics animation is a multi-framed gif file. I chose using an animated GIF file in this situation over flash because flash is not supported on Apple's IPad platform... at least not officially. It's a shame. I believe this particular animation involved three factors: a positive force 1/r (NOT 1/r^2) a negative/repulsive 1/r^3 force and an external constant force that was gradually built up over a series of animations. It was the external force that changed over the entire simulation run. Everything else remained a constant, so to speak. The external force is gradually building up from the bottom of the picture. As the force builds upward it gradually forces the orbiting satellite to gyrate (wiggle and dance!) upwards. Eventually it pops out of the picture! What astonished me as I ran these simulations were the number of unexpected bifurcations that would suddenly manifest when I least expected it. Many, MANY of my simulations exhibited an astonishing number of unexpected bifurcations. I have generated many other simulations that produce far more interesting effects, and beauty. Hopefully before the end of the year I'll have a few additional things out there. We'll see how it goes. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:01 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson Check out: http://test.orionworks.com/ Some of the images remind me of electron cloud orbits. T
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Now that is what I call a wild set of plots! It appears like you found a way to construct the electron orbitals for a complex atom. Nice art. I thought that you were going to demonstrate that a stable, more or less nominal orbit could be obtained for different powers of force versus distance. That was my main question since I think the laws of COE would be violated if a stable elliptic orbit were obtained with anything except a second order force. You might do some tweaking to your equation and obtain fractal curves. My simulation was conducted to visually see how interactions between planets lead to unstable systems and the ejection of small ones. I think I gave up after I had a single planet simulated due to the complexity of the equations with many bodies. In my simulation I incremented time in small steps and recalculated the delta changes in position at each interval. That technique works well for solving high order differential equations. I have been tempted to use it for the solution to some of the partial differential equations associated with heat flow, but lack sufficient energy to see it through. Good luck with your interesting endeavor. Dave -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 10:01 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy Would you mind giving us a short preview of the higher power effects you simulated. I did a similar thing once and all I recall is that the second order drop with distance was the only one that was stable in orbits. My simulation was a bit crude at the time so I am asking you for your observations. Thanks. Hi Dave, Against my better judgment I have decided to give a small preview. Check out: http://test.orionworks.com/ As you might have guessed this is one of the sub-domain locations where I'm in the midst of performing a major overhaul of my entire web site. THIS LOCATION IS A TEST SITE! EVERYTHING IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION! Lots of links here don't work, or work incorrectly. Things here are constantly subject to change without notice as I experiment fiddle about with this and that feature. Here today… gone tomorrow. The celestial mechanics animation is a multi-framed gif file. I chose using an animated GIF file in this situation over flash because flash is not supported on Apple's IPad platform... at least not officially. It's a shame. I believe this particular animation involved three factors: a positive force 1/r (NOT 1/r^2) a negative/repulsive 1/r^3 force and an external constant force that was gradually built up over a series of animations. It was the external force that changed over the entire simulation run. Everything else remained a constant, so to speak. The external force is gradually building up from the bottom of the picture. As the force builds upward it gradually forces the orbiting satellite to gyrate (wiggle and dance!) upwards. Eventually it pops out of the picture! What astonished me as I ran these simulations were the number of unexpected bifurcations that would suddenly manifest when I least expected it. Many, MANY of my simulations exhibited an astonishing number of unexpected bifurcations. I have generated many other simulations that produce far more interesting effects, and beauty. Hopefully before the end of the year I’ll have a few additional things out there… We’ll see how it goes. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Same thought I had Terry. Dave -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:01 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson Check out: http://test.orionworks.com/ Some of the images remind me of electron cloud orbits. T
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Hey Steven, the website is looking very nice; and enjoyed perusing your artwork. So that's what happened to Kinkade!! And when I come back for another round on this physical plain, I want to get a speeding ticket on the galactic highway! Most talented you be. Oh, some of the orbital forms sure seem strange and totally unexpected. we're so used to seeing boring mostly circular orbits that it would be fascinating to see one like your simulations. are you aware of any (from astronomers papers) that might be very non-circular? -mark From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson [mailto:orionwo...@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 7:01 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy Would you mind giving us a short preview of the higher power effects you simulated. I did a similar thing once and all I recall is that the second order drop with distance was the only one that was stable in orbits. My simulation was a bit crude at the time so I am asking you for your observations. Thanks. Hi Dave, Against my better judgment I have decided to give a small preview. Check out: http://test.orionworks.com/ As you might have guessed this is one of the sub-domain locations where I'm in the midst of performing a major overhaul of my entire web site. THIS LOCATION IS A TEST SITE! EVERYTHING IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION! Lots of links here don't work, or work incorrectly. Things here are constantly subject to change without notice as I experiment fiddle about with this and that feature. Here today. gone tomorrow. The celestial mechanics animation is a multi-framed gif file. I chose using an animated GIF file in this situation over flash because flash is not supported on Apple's IPad platform... at least not officially. It's a shame. I believe this particular animation involved three factors: a positive force 1/r (NOT 1/r^2) a negative/repulsive 1/r^3 force and an external constant force that was gradually built up over a series of animations. It was the external force that changed over the entire simulation run. Everything else remained a constant, so to speak. The external force is gradually building up from the bottom of the picture. As the force builds upward it gradually forces the orbiting satellite to gyrate (wiggle and dance!) upwards. Eventually it pops out of the picture! What astonished me as I ran these simulations were the number of unexpected bifurcations that would suddenly manifest when I least expected it. Many, MANY of my simulations exhibited an astonishing number of unexpected bifurcations. I have generated many other simulations that produce far more interesting effects, and beauty. Hopefully before the end of the year I'll have a few additional things out there. We'll see how it goes. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8feature=player_detailpage Rohnermachine.com Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos. The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed above. In it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp technology. Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which are interesting. The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction in a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike. At 1: 03 into the long video, McKubre states his position as an advocate of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his initial interest in the engine. A first hand eye witness to the Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community. As a personal opinion, McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep recycling through the new energy community. Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called “inteligentry, LTD” to simply and optimized the Papp process. He will license his prototype for mass production shortly uses the Rossi type “try it before you buy it money back guaranty”. It looks to me like the Papp engine uses the same basic electron screening LERN principles as the Rossi reactor. In the Papp engine, helium is the fuel and Argon is the catalyst. Jim Kettner is very open about his technology since most of it is in the public domain.
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Axil, In case you are familiar with the history of this, I have a few questions - Who invited Papp to do the test at Cal Tech? How long did the engine continue to work after the power was removed? If so, could it have been running on battery, or some other storage unit? Was any evidence found in the debris that indicated fraud? How has McKubre tested the engine? -- Lou Pagnucco Axil wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8feature=player_detailpage Rohnermachine.com Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos. The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed above. In it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp technology. Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which are interesting. The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction in a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike. At 1: 03 into the long video, McKubre states his position as an advocate of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his initial interest in the engine. A first hand eye witness to the Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community. As a personal opinion, McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his Noble Gas Plasma Engine. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep recycling through the new energy community. Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called inteligentry, LTD to simply and
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
I am at the beginning of my study of the Papp effect so I will answer you as I verity the info that is out there. In the Tesla Video, McKubre said that Bob Rohner took the engine completely apart in the middle of a demo and said it was totally clean of fraud. The longest that Bob Rohner saw the engine run was a week as told by McKubre. McKubre's endorsement was very strong and he virtually assured that no fraud was involved. From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Cheers:Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 6:54 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, In case you are familiar with the history of this, I have a few questions - Who invited Papp to do the test at Cal Tech? How long did the engine continue to work after the power was removed? If so, could it have been running on battery, or some other storage unit? Was any evidence found in the debris that indicated fraud? How has McKubre tested the engine? -- Lou Pagnucco Axil wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8feature=player_detailpage Rohnermachine.com Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos. The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed above. In it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp technology. Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which are interesting. The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction in a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike. At 1: 03 into the long video, McKubre states his position as an advocate of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his initial interest in the engine. A first hand eye witness to the Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community. As a personal opinion, McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman
At 04:12 PM 8/8/2012, Axil Axil wrote: A first hand eye witness to the Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community. Feynman's account is at http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman,Video
Feynman's account is at http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html Infinite Energy description : http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html Papp demonstrating his engine with a dynonometer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wZqDQ7Pjg
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! –Jouni
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman,Video
At 05:05 PM 8/8/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote: Feynman's account is at http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html Infinite Energy description : http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html Papp demonstrating his engine with a dynonometer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wZqDQ7Pjg The video is discussed at : http://hutchisoneffect.ca/Academy_Video%20of%20Jimmy%20Sabori%27s%20Papp%20Engine%20Variants%20-%20PESWiki.htm New Energy Congress member, and science advisor to PES Network, Ken Rauen, who has had extensive direct involvement with the Joseph Papp engine technology, says that what is shown below as a working device is not Sabori's work, but that of Joseph Papp, and that Sabori's work is not worth chasing. He provides some background in who's who in the field, including some developments that are imminent.
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Guys, The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy. Just enough and it will purr like a Schrodinger kitten. Too many singularities or ones with too large event horizons and she blows... On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! –Jouni
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Guys, The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy. Just enough and it will purr like a Schrodinger kitten. Too many singularities or ones with too large event horizons and she blows... On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! –Jouni
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
You response confuses me. Jouni said: *Better, are you serious?* Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: *This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.* Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: *Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs.* Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: *Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.* Axil states: Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric. Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long time. John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged enough to bring the engine to market. Journi said: *I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus!* Axil states: Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of him and Rohner is way ahead of them all. The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get that far in commercialization. The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... from the standpoint of commercialization. LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! –Jouni
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Gravitational collapse is not the only process that could create black holes. In principle, black holes could be formed in high-energy collisions that achieve sufficient density. As of 2002, no such events have been detected, either directly or indirectly as a deficiency of the mass balance in particle accelerator experiments. This suggests that there must be a lower limit for the mass of black holes. Theoretically, this boundary is expected to lie around the Planck mass (mP = √ħc/G ≈ 1.2×1019 GeV/c2 ≈ 2.2×10−8 kg), where quantum effects are expected to invalidate the predictions of general relativity. This would put the creation of black holes firmly out of reach of any high energy process occurring on or near the Earth. However, certain developments in quantum gravity suggest that the Planck mass could be much lower: some braneworld scenarios for example put the boundary as low as 1 TeV/c2. This would make it conceivable for micro black holes to be created in the high energy collisions occurring when cosmic rays hit the Earth's atmosphere, or possibly in the new Large Hadron Collider at CERN. Lower mass black holes are expected to evaporate very fast; for example, a black hole of mass 1 TeV/c2 would take less than 10−88 seconds to evaporate completely. For such a small black hole, quantum gravitation effects are expected to play an important role and could even—although current developments in quantum gravity do not indicate so—hypothetically make such a small black hole stable. Yet these theories are very speculative, and the creation of black holes in these processes is deemed unlikely by many specialists. Even if micro black holes should be formed in these collisions, it is expected that they would evaporate in about 10−25 seconds, posing no threat to the Earth. It might be wise to say away from the singularity as causation for LENR until more is known about their formation and sebsequent evaperation. Cheers:Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: Guys, The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy. Just enough and it will purr like a Schrodinger kitten. Too many singularities or ones with too large event horizons and she blows... On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! –Jouni
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Jouni, I will have to take issue with your naive, simpleton, and bigoted comment. You just insulted a whole range of people and I expect an apology. Do you feel you are smarter than Isaac Newton - The father of Modern Physics or Michael Faraday - The father of electromagnetism or Louis Pastuer - The father of modern microbiology or Johann Kepler - The father of Modern Physical Astronomy or Charles Bell - Premier Anatomist and Surgeon These are just a sampling of men who were pioneers of science, smarter than you can ever hope to be, and deeply religious people. Can you say you are smarter than any of these guys. Do you know anybody who is smarter than any of these guys? Ah... yes, Richard Dawkins is. OK, Whatever. Jojo - Original Message - From: Jouni Valkonen To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw.
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
I'm glad I watched that video to the end, because the first half brought back bad memories! I and many Vorts have been following the fringe sci/tech world for decades, and the first half of this presentation was VERY poor. reminds me of the charlatans which showed up at the Tesla Society conferences with their overunity device or whatever, and when their presentation came up, it was, aaahh shucks, I was testing the device this morning and something went pop and I must have burned something out! And we didn't bring any spare parts. So we won't be able to demonstrate the overunity device, but we will do the presentation and there are books and CDs if you want more details. That's why I gave up on that venue 20 years ago. there might have been a few individuals that had useful stuff, but 90+% was BS. This looked pretty painful for McKubre! His body language and facial expressions did not look real relaxed at first. I bet this was so much different from a room full of PhDs, and *not* in a good way professionally speaking, that he felt his reputation was suffering! I don't blame him. the problems with microphones, with the slide presentation and with the non-playing videos, were so amateurish they would make any professional engineer/scientist cringe! I know I did, more than once. It wasn't until the last few minutes that McKubre provided some history of how he got involved, and that is when I felt the time spent watching it was worth it. He chose his words carefully as a good scientist will do, but, **he seemed to be quite sure that this was also a very important and new kind of phenomenon**. I applaud Rohner for his efforts and openness to demo this thing, and for McKubre to even show up and more or less vouch for this kind of thing. 20 years ago, it would have been a career limiting move! The operation of this device is quite intriguing, especially the video with Rohner and Dannel Roberts in Rohner's shop. they use a pneumatic cylinder at 120psi (??) for measuring the force, and it is substantial. See this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJMfeature=plcp feature=plcp This is the kind of thing that causes Vorts to start salivating! Looking fwd to some discussions about this thing. -Mark Iverson From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:59 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8feature=player_detailpage feature=player_detailpage Rohnermachine.com Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos. The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed above. In it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp technology. Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which are interesting. The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction in a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike. At 1: 03 into the long video, McKubre states his position as an advocate of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his initial interest in the engine. A first hand eye witness to the Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community. As a personal opinion, McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction. Cheers: Axil
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Mark, I had similar apprehension but the demonstration itself was pretty convincing -I don't think the energy consumption of the ignition ckt was much different open air vs driving a weight up and I agree with Rhoner that the instant reversal of the piston ahead of the weight as the gases contract is telling us something - I don't agree anything is necessarily being consumed even from a nuclear perspective as McKubre is suggesting but would posit this is the same catalytic/Casimir geometry we see in the Mills/Rossi designs...only the medium has changed such that we have anomalous displacement / expansion of gas instead of temperature changes but it is still all just manipulating the variables in gas law - where Mills and Rossi contain the PV forcing t to change this device contains Pt forcing the v to change. We have all been told that the random motion of gas is due to VP fluctuations below the plank scale [HUP] and are not exploitable but I am convinced that Casimir geometry accumulates and segregates the isotropy such that these zero point fluctuations can be exploited by gas atoms exposed to these regions in a biased manner. IMHO The plasma forms layers like the argon layers Rhoner makes mention of that are in constant motion with trapped ions in between forming dynamic menisci of Casimir geometry that constantly alter the fractional [inverse Rydberg] state of the ions .. you can take your pick after that whether it be Mills like hydrino ions in collision, Haisch - Moller Lamb Pinch, or something similar to the MAHG oscilation between bond states only with noble gas I guess this would be between ionic and noble states. Fran From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine I'm glad I watched that video to the end, because the first half brought back bad memories! I and many Vorts have been following the fringe sci/tech world for decades, and the first half of this presentation was VERY poor... reminds me of the charlatans which showed up at the Tesla Society conferences with their overunity device or whatever, and when their presentation came up, it was, aaahh shucks, I was testing the device this morning and something went pop and I must have burned something out! And we didn't bring any spare parts... ; So we won't be able to demonstrate the overunity device, but we will do the presentation and there are books and CDs if you want more details. That's why I gave up on that venue 20 years ago... there might have been a few individuals that had useful stuff, but 90+% was BS. This looked pretty painful for McKubre! His body language and facial expressions did not look real relaxed at first. I bet this was so much different from a room full of PhDs, and *not* in a good way professionally speaking, that he felt his reputation was suffering! I don't blame him... the problems with microphones, with the slide presentation and with the non-playing videos, were so amateurish they would make any professional eng ineer/scientist cringe! I know I did, more than once. It wasn't until the last few minutes that McKubre provided some history of how he got involved, and that is when I felt the time spent watching it was worth it. He chose his words carefully as a good scientist will do, but, **he seemed to be quite sure that this was also a very important and new kind of phenomenon**. I applaud Rohner for his efforts and openness to demo this thing, and for McKubre to even show up and more or less vouch for this kind of thing... 20 years ago, it would have been a career limiting move! The operation of this device is quite intriguing, especially the video with Rohner and Dannel Roberts in Rohner's shop... they use a pneumatic cylinder at 120psi (??) for measuring the force, and it is substantial. See this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJMfeature=plcp This is the kind of thin g that causes Vorts to start salivating! Looking fwd to some discussions about this thing... -Mark Iverson From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:59 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8feature=player_detailpage Rohnermachine.com Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos. The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed above. In it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp technology. Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which are interesting. The demo shows the device
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman,Video
For the convenience of our readership at vortex I will post a rebuttal to Dr, Feynman's account*.* *http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html* Feynman's Mistakes and the Recovery But at the public meeting the next month at which the fatality occurred (see the local newspaper account of the fatality and injuries-p. 30) was Caltech physicist Richard P. Feynman (1918-1988), who had worked on the Manhattan atomic bomb project in World War II. Before even arriving at the demonstration, Feynman assumed that the Papp engine, whose operation he was about to witness, had to be part of an elaborate hoax. We know this because he recounted his reactions during the episode in his widely circulated internet account touted by the skeptic community (see Mr. Papf's (sic) Perpetual Motion Machine, p. 29). But here is the central problem with Feynman's analysis (which has many other errors of fact and logic embedded in it): There was a court action against Feynman by Papp and his backer, Don Roser of Environetics, Inc., as a result of Feynman's inept attempt to disprove the Papp engine with his unauthorized pulling of an electric control-circuit wire that Feynman egregiously imagined had to be powering the engine. It was unfortunate for Feynman that the wire's gauge was far too thin even had there been a secret electric motor within the retrofit Volvo engine. Furthermore, as you will read, the engine kept running even after the flimsy wire was removed. Feynman asserted that Papp most likely had deliberately planned to blow up his own engine to avoid subsequent discovery of the fraud! And, Feynman acknowledges that there was an out-of-court settlement with Caltech. Surely, had there ever been the slightest piece of evidence that conventional explosives blew up the Papp engine that day, Caltech would most certainly not have had to settle. Papp would soon have been charged with manslaughter, no doubt, and Feynman would surely have cited this evidence publicly. He was not one to shrink from dramatic gestures. Caltech also had the motive and the means to skewer Papp with the kind of evidence that is routinely gathered by police departments and crime labs following explosion accidents. However, all records of the investigation into the accident appear to have vanished down some kind of a memory hole. I believe they exist somewhere, but we have not been able— yet— to obtain them. On June 29, 1998, Caltech's very helpful Associate Archivist, Shelley Erwin, faxed me: Well, the mysterious affair with Mr. Papp/Papf continues to remain mysterious. I have found nothing in the Feynman papers that refers to it. Nor is there any obvious reference to Mr. Papp or the lawsuit in administrative or publicity papers from the time. We do not have a clippings file for the 1960s, so that is one type of resource I did not investigate. . .I think I have done all I can here, without any useful result. We would be interested to know how your search comes out— if indeed this is a true account. I wish I knew. I made more recent contact with various Caltech offices, which could not provide me with any records— not even its public information office had newsclips, and efforts to locate official accident reports in California have come up dry. Some of these may have been destroyed, according to some police departments contacted. After all, this is an accident that happened thirty-five years ago. But the point is that nowhere, so far, do we have any evidence that the explosion was a result of illicit explosives. Failing such direct evidence of hoax, the proved violence of the explosions— the November 1968 and the October 1968 ones— strongly point to the reality of the Papp process. But we also have the contemporary laboratory work that establishes convincing evidence— visual and by instrumentation— that noble gases can be made to explode and achieve over-unity. Heroic work on a shoestring budget over the past few years is recounted in broad scope by researchers Mark Hugo and Blair Jenness in Minnesota (p. 51). We hope to feature their work in greater depth in future issues. Heinz Klostermann of California, whom I met two years ago, has been of great assistance in assembling some of the information that went into this issue of Infinite Energy. On p. 55, he discusses his broad knowledge of many of the groups working in the U.S. in the past and today in the effort to recover the Papp engine technology. He has begun his own independent initiative. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 05:05 PM 8/8/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote: Feynman's account is at http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html Infinite Energy description : http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html Papp demonstrating his engine with a dynonometer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wZqDQ7Pjg The video is discussed at :
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: Better, are you serious? Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi. Axil states: Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric. Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long time. John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged enough to bring the engine to market. Journi said: I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! Axil states: Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of him and Rohner is way ahead of them all. The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get that far in commercialization. The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... from the standpoint of commercialization. LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Howdy Fran! Yes, the demo was good, and the reversal of the piston was interesting; seemed to be 'pulled' down to some degree and if that is the case, then there is a physical expansion and contraction going on with the gasses. It was good that they took it apart to show how simple the thing really is. The video link I supplied is a much better video of just how simple it is inside. no details on the electronics, nor how the coil is wound. As for possible theoretical mechanisms. that's what we're here for (as he wipes the drool from his chin with a shirt sleeve)! What purpose does the coil play? Creating an intense mag-field to align the plasma ions? There are two sets of electrical contacts: - Electrodes - Anode and Cathode I know that sounds redundant, but that was Rohner's jargon. If I remember correctly, the anode/cathode are there to supply a (DC?) current AFTER the electrodes spark and 'energize' the plasma. guess it's time to look at the patents, if they've been published. Is the spark discharge creating the plasma, and then one gets a DC current flow across the anode/cathode? The spark is NOT for combustion, so it must be meant to have some kind of effect on the ions/free electrons? This is a hoot! All these technologies (CF, Papp, and who knows what's next, Hutchinson Effect!) mired in obscurity for many decades, and they all get credibility and (hopefully) commercialization in a year or three!!! At least it occurred before we passed on, but it sure would have been great if the lost ol'timer Vorts could have been here to watch this unfold. Hey, has anyone ever thought of holding a Vortex-l union??? Can't really call it a 'reunion' since I don't think there's ever been a union! J -Mark From: Roarty, Francis X [mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 7:45 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine Mark, I had similar apprehension but the demonstration itself was pretty convincing -I don't think the energy consumption of the ignition ckt was much different open air vs driving a weight up and I agree with Rhoner that the instant reversal of the piston ahead of the weight as the gases contract is telling us something - I don't agree anything is necessarily being consumed even from a nuclear perspective as McKubre is suggesting but would posit this is the same catalytic/Casimir geometry we see in the Mills/Rossi designs.only the medium has changed such that we have anomalous displacement / expansion of gas instead of temperature changes but it is still all just manipulating the variables in gas law - where Mills and Rossi contain the PV forcing t to change this device contains Pt forcing the v to change. We have all been told that the random motion of gas is due to VP fluctuations below the plank scale [HUP] and are not exploitable but I am convinced that Casimir geometry accumulates and segregates the isotropy such that these zero point fluctuations can be exploited by gas atoms exposed to these regions in a biased manner. IMHO The plasma forms layers like the argon layers Rhoner makes mention of that are in constant motion with trapped ions in between forming dynamic menisci of Casimir geometry that constantly alter the fractional [inverse Rydberg] state of the ions .. you can take your pick after that whether it be Mills like hydrino ions in collision, Haisch - Moller Lamb Pinch, or something similar to the MAHG oscilation between bond states only with noble gas I guess this would be between ionic and noble states. Fran From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine I'm glad I watched that video to the end, because the first half brought back bad memories! I and many Vorts have been following the fringe sci/tech world for decades, and the first half of this presentation was VERY poor. reminds me of the charlatans which showed up at the Tesla Society conferences with their overunity device or whatever, and when their presentation came up, it was, aaahh shucks, I was testing the device this morning and something went pop and I must have burned something out! And we didn't bring any spare parts. ; So we won't be able to demonstrate the overunity device, but we will do the presentation and there are books and CDs if you want more details. That's why I gave up on that venue 20 years ago. there might have been a few individuals that had useful stuff, but 90+% was BS. This looked pretty painful for McKubre! His body language and facial expressions did not look real relaxed at first. I bet this was so much different from a room full of PhDs, and *not* in a good way professionally speaking, that he felt his reputation was suffering! I don't blame him. the problems with microphones, with the slide presentation and with the non
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
*What purpose does the coil play? Creating an intense mag-field to align the plasma ions?* The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder, directs it into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This protects walls from erosion. The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha, protons, electrons confined inside the thin plasma channel. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: *Better, are you serious?* Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: *This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.* Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: *Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs.* Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: *Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.* Axil states: Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric. Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long time. John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged enough to bring the engine to market. Journi said: *I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus!* Axil states: Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of him and Rohner is way ahead of them all. The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get that far in commercialization. The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... from the standpoint of commercialization. LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
What purpose does the coil play? I posit that it aligns the otherwise random layers of gas into Casimir geometry -forcing the layers into parallel alignments with trapped ions caught between that then become fractionalized [ inverse Rydberg matter] Fran From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 11:38 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine What purpose does the coil play? Creating an intense mag-field to align the plasma ions? The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder, directs it into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This protects walls from erosion. The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha, protons, electrons confined inside the thin plasma channel. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.commailto:jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axilmailto:janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: Better, are you serious? Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi. Axil states: Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric. Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long time. John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged enough to bring the engine to market. Journi said: I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! Axil states: Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of him and Rohner is way ahead of them all. The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get that far in commercialization. The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... from the standpoint of commercialization. LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.commailto:jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.commailto:janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
John Rehner has done the same thing that Robert Godes founder of Brillouin Energy has done; create a nanoeceond high power elecric pulse controller. Like any engine, timing is all important. With proper timing the engine will run will with little or no bad nuclear byproducts. What John Rehner wants to sell is his control boards, his freqency generator, and his spark controller. The cost of his engine in mass production is $300. It can be built mostly of plastic. Rohner is hoping the customers will buy his stuff rather than build the engine on their own. It is open source and not protected in any way since the patent is laped long ago. You saw may post on the kit Rohner sells, right... or were you too occupied in bad mouthing Obama (aka... a waste of time)? See http://www.rohnerengineering.com/pix/OurMBs.jpg Cheers:Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: *Better, are you serious?* Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: *This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.* Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: *Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs.* Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: *Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.* Axil states: Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric. Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long time. John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged enough to bring the engine to market. Journi said: *I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus!* Axil states: Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of him and Rohner is way ahead of them all. The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get that far in commercialization. The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... from the standpoint of commercialization. LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Axil wrote: The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder, directs it into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This protects walls from erosion. The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha, protons, electrons confined inside the thin plasma channel. Is that speculation, or facts coming from someone who has worked with Rohner, or is it from patents??? Please try to let us know the source of your statements. sources are important. -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
From a reply to my blog http://froarty.scienceblog.com/32178/32178/ 1.John Rohnerhttp://www.plasmerg/com on April 5, 2011 at 6:48 amhttp://froarty.scienceblog.com/32178/32178/#comment-59 said: Hello My name is John Rohner and my company is PlasmERG.com (www.plasmerg.com) I am the author of the current patent pending on this technology and have running test engines using it. I was also the electronic designer of the controller that was used on the certified 83 engine. I find your comments very interesting. You have one part particularly right. The fuel mix does have one gas that is pure buffer, a second that is quasi passive as a second buffer. The rest are used much as you envision except each has a higher transition point so one sets the next which sets the last off. Much as you consider with the heat, the gas mix also is pre conditioned before the catalyst, a 200KV lightning ball about .1 diameter, is applied. The equivalent to your heat is the application of Electromagnetic squeeze and Radio frequency energies to Ionize the gas mixture to just under the transition point. This lowers the reactive point and simplifies the starting. From there the expansion of the plasma has a five to one expansion rate, mix dependent. Removal of the catalyst and RF will cause the transition to stop, and as you assume the return to steady state gas does cause a partial vacuum and a negative thermal impulse. I am unfamiliar with ZPE or Rossi. But if this process specifies Hydrogen then it is wrong. Hydrogen has a reaction time that is too fast for a small displacement system. For a very large displacement a small hydrogen part may be helpful to start the process as more volume is required in less time. In our tests we have found it too quick and dissipates before it can light the candle thus we use the slower Helium. I hope you do not mind my checking in and commenting as this is definitely THE best hope for future clean air power generation and we have just scratched the surface. It is my thought that there is still a world to learn about this. Thank You From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 12:00 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine John Rehner has done the same thing that Robert Godes founder of Brillouin Energy has done; create a nanoeceond high power elecric pulse controller. Like any engine, timing is all important. With proper timing the engine will run will with little or no bad nuclear byproducts. What John Rehner wants to sell is his control boards, his freqency generator, and his spark controller. The cost of his engine in mass production is $300. It can be built mostly of plastic. Rohner is hoping the customers will buy his stuff rather than build the engine on their own. It is open source and not protected in any way since the patent is laped long ago. You saw may post on the kit Rohner sells, right... or were you too occupied in bad mouthing Obama (aka... a waste of time)? See http://www.rohnerengineering.com/pix/OurMBs.jpg Cheers:Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.commailto:jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axilmailto:janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: Better, are you serious? Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Had to delete the 35KB picture in order for this to get posted. Here is what we have so far: 1. Primarily just noble gases in a closed cylinder at low pressure (1 to several atm). They just bounce around, occasionally bouncing into each other but no chemical nor nuclear reactions taking place. Real boring! 2. There were three other elements mentioned, but in very small amounts, and they were not obvious or in the bottom and not easily visible. Thorium mentioned, but more on that later. 3. Spark discharge starts the ionization/plasma generation process near electrodes. 4. Plasma is conductive and a large (DC) current flows between other set of electrodes (anode/cathode). 5. Then a miracle/the impossible happens! J Unknowns: 1. When is the coil energized? If Axil's speculations are right, it would be on for steps 1 thru 3. 2. Rohner did mention 2g of thorium at the conference, but I thought that was only since he didn't have something else at the conference; vaguely remember hearing RF! Need to rewatch the videos. Analysis of attached Picture 1. The lower-right electrode and upper-left are connected to the SAME wire! 2. The wire at lower left side electrode wraps underneath the vacuum guage and connects to what looks like a ground terminal mounted to side of electrode housing; then from there the wire goes into the wooden box. 3. The wire on the electrode in the upper-right side one cannot see where it goes.. -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
From a John Rohner video regarding the geometry of the plasma. The observation about the charge particles seems obvious to me as basic plasma physics and comes from me. Cheers: Axil On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:23 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Axil wrote: “The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder, directs it into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This protects walls from erosion. The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha, protons, electrons confined inside the thin plasma channel.” ** ** Is that speculation, or facts coming from someone who has worked with Rohner, or is it from patents??? Please try to let us know the source of your statements… sources are important. ** ** -Mark ** ** ** **
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
These guys don't write things down, they use videos and interviews to communicate, this makes research difficult. I was under the impression that the coil is always active and is not switched off and on. J Rohner uses, Scandium at the tip of his anode for some reason. He also uses four cathodes ( cut down spark plugs) at 110,000 volts each. He says they add up to 440,000 V total. I don't understand how this addition of voltage is figured. Cheers: Axil On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:34 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Had to delete the 35KB picture in order for this to get posted… ** ** Here is what we have so far: **1. **Primarily just noble gases in a closed cylinder at low pressure (1 to several atm). They just bounce around, occasionally bouncing into each other but no chemical nor nuclear reactions taking place. Real boring! **2. **There were three other elements mentioned, but in very small amounts, and they were not obvious or in the bottom and not easily visible. Thorium mentioned, but more on that later… **3. **Spark discharge starts the ionization/plasma generation process near electrodes. **4. **Plasma is conductive and a large (DC) current flows between other set of electrodes (anode/cathode). **5. **Then a miracle/the impossible happens! J ** ** Unknowns: **1. **When is the coil energized? If Axil’s speculations are right, it would be on for steps 1 thru 3. **2. **Rohner did mention 2g of thorium at the conference, but I thought that was only since he didn’t have something else at the conference; vaguely remember hearing RF! Need to rewatch the videos… ** ** Analysis of attached Picture **1. **The lower-right electrode and upper-left are connected to the SAME wire! **2. **The wire at lower left side electrode wraps underneath the vacuum guage and connects to what looks like a ground terminal mounted to side of electrode housing; then from there the wire goes into the wooden box. **3. **The wire on the electrode in the upper-right side one cannot see where it goes…. ** ** -Mark ** **
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
I am asking what the missing piece is? Why don't I see a Papp engine being sold anywhere? It's been 30 years, right? When something is said to be real and is taking more than 30 years to commercialize; I don't know about you but that raises a few questions in my mind. The same criticism goes for Randal Mills and others. What is the holdup? Rossi is not taking more than 30 years so he has a bit more credibility. Can I buy a fully functional engine from Rohner right now? An engine that I can hook to my 2KW generator so that I can have free power? And yes, I did see your post but a kit is a far cry from a fully functional engine. Why doesn't he sell a fully functional engine? I am prepared to buy one now if he has one for sale even it it is not certified. Jojo PS. As for badmouthing Bambi, it is never a waste of time to correct the criminal actions of a usurper-in-chief. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Judging from the tone of your criticism of my badmouthing of bambi, that you think I am out of place and unfair to do so? - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine John Rehner has done the same thing that Robert Godes founder of Brillouin Energy has done; create a nanoeceond high power elecric pulse controller. Like any engine, timing is all important. With proper timing the engine will run will with little or no bad nuclear byproducts. What John Rehner wants to sell is his control boards, his freqency generator, and his spark controller. The cost of his engine in mass production is $300. It can be built mostly of plastic. Rohner is hoping the customers will buy his stuff rather than build the engine on their own. It is open source and not protected in any way since the patent is laped long ago. You saw may post on the kit Rohner sells, right... or were you too occupied in bad mouthing Obama (aka... a waste of time)? See http://www.rohnerengineering.com/pix/OurMBs.jpg Cheers:Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: Better, are you serious? Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi. Axil states: Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric. Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long time. John Rohner is smart, trusting enough
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Bob Rohner makes his money from getting investment dollars as did Papp. Bob knows when the product is commercialized and competition comes in to the market, the free lunch is over. See http://www.rohnerengineering.com/ John Rohner wants other people to manufacture the engine in all its various applications. John is a RD guy and not interested in factory work. In my option, politics and evangelism in general is a waste of time for an engineer. What really counts is that your system works well as fast as possible. There is no time to waste. Cheers:Axil On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** I am asking what the missing piece is? Why don't I see a Papp engine being sold anywhere? It's been 30 years, right? When something is said to be real and is taking more than 30 years to commercialize; I don't know about you but that raises a few questions in my mind. The same criticism goes for Randal Mills and others. What is the holdup? Rossi is not taking more than 30 years so he has a bit more credibility. Can I buy a fully functional engine from Rohner right now? An engine that I can hook to my 2KW generator so that I can have free power? And yes, I did see your post but a kit is a far cry from a fully functional engine. Why doesn't he sell a fully functional engine? I am prepared to buy one now if he has one for sale even it it is not certified. Jojo PS. As for badmouthing Bambi, it is never a waste of time to correct the criminal actions of a usurper-in-chief. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Judging from the tone of your criticism of my badmouthing of bambi, that you think I am out of place and unfair to do so? - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 12:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine John Rehner has done the same thing that Robert Godes founder of Brillouin Energy has done; create a nanoeceond high power elecric pulse controller. Like any engine, timing is all important. With proper timing the engine will run will with little or no bad nuclear byproducts. What John Rehner wants to sell is his control boards, his freqency generator, and his spark controller. The cost of his engine in mass production is $300. It can be built mostly of plastic. Rohner is hoping the customers will buy his stuff rather than build the engine on their own. It is open source and not protected in any way since the patent is laped long ago. You saw may post on the kit Rohner sells, right... or were you too occupied in bad mouthing Obama (aka... a waste of time)? See http://www.rohnerengineering.com/pix/OurMBs.jpg Cheers:Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: *Better, are you serious?* Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: *This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.* Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: *Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs.* Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: *Probably this is not real, because
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Le Aug 8, 2012 à 5:58 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com a écrit : The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy. Unfortunately, i don't think 1 TeV collision is easy to come by. Eric
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Eric, I’m fine with your explanation up to the final step of “fusion”… that’s not the only solution and lack of ash or dead grad students is a pretty good indication the reaction isn’t a normal nuclear reaction and that the little nuclear residue that has been found to date is only a by product of nonnuclear primary reaction …since this reaction exceeds values for chemical reactions I have to suggest Zero point as the source. My posit is that COE isn’t violated but rather the fluctuations that normally cancel into an isotropic field at the macro scale can be segregated by organization at the nano scale and provide a raw environment where the dynamic changes in these values can be exploited given the proper gases, temperatures and heat extraction to set up an endless cycle around the Curie point. Fran From: Eric Walker [mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 1:31 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine Le Aug 6, 2012 à 7:00 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.commailto:janap...@gmail.com a écrit : The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of fusion. Axil, your sense of humor is very dry. Many people do not realize you are speaking tongue-in-cheek. Eric
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
It's not fusion, you are witnessing a quantum black hole singularity
evaporating and emitting low energy photoms, quarks, etc. Stimulated by
electric arcs, lightning, emf, etc. Quantum gravity holds this together
while it evaporates.
On Tuesday, August 7, 2012, Roarty, Francis X wrote:
Eric,
I’m fine with your explanation up to the final step of
“fusion”… that’s not the only solution and lack of ash or dead grad
students is a pretty good indication the reaction isn’t a normal nuclear
reaction and that the little nuclear residue that has been found to date is
only a by product of nonnuclear primary reaction …since this reaction
exceeds values for chemical reactions I have to suggest Zero point as the
source. My posit is that COE isn’t violated but rather the fluctuations
that normally cancel into an isotropic field at the macro scale can be
segregated by organization at the nano scale and provide a raw environment
where the dynamic changes in these values can be exploited given the proper
gases, temperatures and heat extraction to set up an endless cycle around
the Curie point.
Fran
** **
*From:* Eric Walker [mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com javascript:_e({},
'cvml', 'eric.wal...@gmail.com');]
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 07, 2012 1:31 AM
*To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'vortex-l@eskimo.com');
*Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
** **
Le Aug 6, 2012 à 7:00 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({},
'cvml', 'janap...@gmail.com');
a écrit :
The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the
papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the
transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the
formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding
that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of fusion.
** **
Axil, your sense of humor is very dry. Many people do not realize you are
speaking tongue-in-cheek.
** **
Eric
** **
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com wrote: It's not fusion, you are witnessing a quantum black hole singularity evaporating and emitting low energy photoms, quarks, etc. Stimulated by electric arcs, lightning, emf, etc. Quantum gravity holds this together while it evaporates. Swamp gas. T
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
That too! On Tuesday, August 7, 2012, Terry Blanton wrote: On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comjavascript:; wrote: It's not fusion, you are witnessing a quantum black hole singularity evaporating and emitting low energy photoms, quarks, etc. Stimulated by electric arcs, lightning, emf, etc. Quantum gravity holds this together while it evaporates. Swamp gas. T
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Agreed, This is the same basic process and also related to sonoluminescence but totally gaseous medium where the environment forms the needed geometry and the catalytic gas through natural self assembly based on the nature of the gases with changes in pressure. The gas cyclically reforms the geometry in the form of a gaseous meniscus enclosing an ionized plasma where like sonoluminescence you don't have to worry about self destruction because you are constantly harvesting and reforming the geometry. Fran From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 1:57 PM To: vortex-l Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine Noble Gas Plasma Engine In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his Noble Gas Plasma Engine. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep recycling through the new energy community. Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called inteligentry, LTD to simply and optimized the Papp process. He will license his prototype for mass production shortly uses the Rossi type try it before you buy it money back guaranty. It looks to me like the Papp engine uses the same basic electron screening LERN principles as the Rossi reactor. In the Papp engine, helium is the fuel and Argon is the catalyst. Jim Kettner is very open about his technology since most of it is in the public domain. Kettner's company inteligentry, LTD, is selling a demo unit to the experimenter types for $350 so that they can verify in their own minds that gas based LENR works. This LENR engine produced no heat. Its energy output is strictly mechanical energy. A simple spark and frequency generator are provide. The gas is user supplied. If you are interested, see http://www.magistrala.cz/freeenergy/2012/07/28/inteligentry-open-sourcing-noble-gas-engine-core-design/ Public domain LENR Fuel mix xenon 8.5 krypton 12.5 argon 16.9 neon 26.3 Helium comprise the remainder. This technology shares most of the features that are currently under development by other LENR vendors and Focus Fusion. I will discuss these similarities in another post. Cheers: Axil
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his Noble Gas Plasma Engine. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep recycling through the new energy community. Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called inteligentry, LTD to simply and optimized the Papp process. He will license his prototype for mass production shortly uses the Rossi type try it before you buy it money back guaranty. It looks to me like the Papp engine uses the same basic electron screening LERN principles as the Rossi reactor. In the Papp engine, helium is the fuel and Argon is the catalyst. Jim Kettner is very open about his technology since most of it is in the public domain. Kettner's company inteligentry, LTD, is selling a demo unit to the experimenter types for $350 so that they can verify in their own minds that gas based LENR works. This LENR engine produced no heat. Its energy output is strictly mechanical energy. A simple spark and frequency generator are provide. The gas is user supplied. If you are interested, see http://www.magistrala.cz/freeenergy/2012/07/28/inteligentry-open-sourcing-noble-gas-engine-core-design/ Public domain LENR Fuel mix xenon 8.5 krypton 12.5 argon 16.9 neon 26.3 Helium comprise the remainder. This technology shares most of the features that are currently under development by other LENR vendors and Focus Fusion. I will discuss these similarities in another post. Cheers: Axil
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
*Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition* The Papp engine produced a brown substance. Kettner believes that neon was being transmuted. No transmutation information is released about the Kettner engine. The Papp engine is primitive and is substantively different in detail from the Kettner engine in the same way that a model T is different from a current car model. I believe that the Kettner engine recharge time of 144,000 miles equivalent is a result of transmuted ash buildup in the noble gas. *Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the **phenomenon can be observed better?* Since no heat is produced, the engine core can be and has been built out of clear plastic. I would like to put the core in a cloud chamber to characterize any particle emissions but the restraining coils keep eveything inside the core. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep recycling through the new energy community. Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called “inteligentry, LTD” to simply and optimized the Papp process. He will license his prototype for mass production shortly uses the Rossi type “try it before you buy it money back guaranty”. It looks to me like the Papp engine uses the same basic electron screening LERN principles as the Rossi reactor. In the Papp engine, helium is the fuel and Argon is the catalyst. Jim Kettner is very open about his technology since most of it is in the public domain. Kettner's company “inteligentry, LTD,” is selling a demo unit to the experimenter types for $350 so that they can verify in their own minds that gas based LENR works. This LENR engine produced no heat. Its energy output is strictly mechanical energy. A simple spark and frequency generator are provide. The gas is user supplied. If you are interested, see http://www.magistrala.cz/freeenergy/2012/07/28/inteligentry-open-sourcing-noble-gas-engine-core-design/ Public domain LENR Fuel mix xenon 8.5 krypton 12.5 argon 16.9 neon 26.3 Helium comprise the remainder. This technology shares most of the features
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
A continuation of the video is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkX69BA35_Afeature=player_embedded Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep recycling through the new energy community. Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called “inteligentry, LTD” to simply and optimized the Papp process. He will license his prototype for mass production shortly uses the Rossi type “try it before you buy it money back guaranty”. It looks to me like the Papp engine uses the same basic electron screening LERN principles as the Rossi reactor. In the Papp engine, helium is the fuel and Argon is the catalyst. Jim Kettner is very open about his technology since most of it is in the public domain. Kettner's company “inteligentry, LTD,” is selling a demo unit to the experimenter types for $350 so that they can verify in their own minds that gas based LENR works. This LENR engine produced no heat. Its energy output is strictly mechanical energy. A simple spark and frequency generator are provide. The gas is user supplied. If you are interested, see http://www.magistrala.cz/freeenergy/2012/07/28/inteligentry-open-sourcing-noble-gas-engine-core-design/ Public domain LENR Fuel mix xenon 8.5 krypton 12.5 argon 16.9 neon 26.3 Helium comprise the remainder. This technology shares most of the features that are currently under development by other LENR vendors and Focus Fusion. I will discuss these similarities in another post. Cheers: Axil
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOwmDZX5Zgfeature=relmfu On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: A continuation of the video is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkX69BA35_Afeature=player_embedded Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep recycling through the new energy community. Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called “inteligentry, LTD” to simply and optimized the Papp process. He will license his prototype for mass production shortly uses the Rossi type “try it before you buy it money back guaranty”. It looks to me like the Papp engine uses the same basic electron screening LERN principles as the Rossi reactor. In the Papp engine, helium is the fuel and Argon is the catalyst. Jim Kettner is very open about his technology since most of it is in the public domain. Kettner's company “inteligentry, LTD,” is selling a demo unit to the experimenter types for $350 so that they can verify in their own minds that gas based LENR works. This LENR engine produced no heat. Its energy output is strictly mechanical energy. A simple spark and frequency generator are provide. The gas is user supplied. If you are interested, see http://www.magistrala.cz/freeenergy/2012/07/28/inteligentry-open-sourcing-noble-gas-engine-core-design/ Public domain LENR Fuel mix xenon 8.5 krypton 12.5 argon 16.9 neon 26.3 Helium comprise the remainder. This technology shares most of the features that are currently under development by other LENR vendors and Focus Fusion. I will discuss these similarities in another post. Cheers: Axil
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
The Rossi reactor is already obsolete. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=L7wZqDQ7Pjg This video shows the Papp engine under a *dynamometer* test with narration and introduction by Jimmy Sabori. A high efficiency linear generator can be integrated into the design of the papp engine to convert the reciprocating motion of the piston into maximum electric power. This free-piston engine/generator combination has maximum high efficiency and reliability when converting motion to electric power because of the absence of the mechanical devices like a dedicated generator crankshaft, connecting rod, etc. The linear generator concept plays a very important role in this free-piston engine hybrid system to realize unparalleled high efficient electric power production approach.. This concept is best for transportation, or electric production at home or office when coupled with a generator. It can be instantly started or stopped based on demand whereas the Rossi reactor takes one hour to start of stop. This leaves the Rossi type reactor to best serve the very limited high process heat specialty industrial market. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=UNoxQDS3LlU The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of fusion. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep recycling through the new energy community. Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called “inteligentry, LTD” to simply and optimized the Papp process. He will license his prototype for mass production shortly uses the Rossi type “try it before you buy it money back guaranty”. It looks to me like the Papp engine uses the same basic electron screening LERN principles as the Rossi reactor. In the Papp engine, helium is the fuel and Argon is the catalyst. Jim Kettner is very open about his technology
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Axil, I watched the videos you referenced. If correct, the over-unity claims should be very easy to verify. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil wrote: The Rossi reactor is already obsolete. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=L7wZqDQ7Pjg This video shows the Papp engine under a *dynamometer* test with narration and introduction by Jimmy Sabori. A high efficiency linear generator can be integrated into the design of the papp engine to convert the reciprocating motion of the piston into maximum electric power. This free-piston engine/generator combination has maximum high efficiency and reliability when converting motion to electric power because of the absence of the mechanical devices like a dedicated generator crankshaft, connecting rod, etc. The linear generator concept plays a very important role in this free-piston engine hybrid system to realize unparalleled high efficient electric power production approach.. This concept is best for transportation, or electric production at home or office when coupled with a generator. It can be instantly started or stopped based on demand whereas the Rossi reactor takes one hour to start of stop. This leaves the Rossi type reactor to best serve the very limited high process heat specialty industrial market. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=UNoxQDS3LlU The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of fusion. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his Noble Gas Plasma Engine. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep recycling through the new energy community. Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called inteligentry, LTD to simply and optimized the Papp process. He will license his prototype for mass production shortly uses the Rossi type try it before you buy it money back guaranty. It looks to me like the Papp engine uses the same
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
I watched these as well and have to wonder if this is real. How could a system with these characteristics not attract more attention from the auto industry? Dave -Original Message- From: pagnucco pagnu...@htdconnect.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:13 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine Axil, I watched the videos you referenced. If correct, the over-unity claims should be very easy to verify. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil wrote: The Rossi reactor is already obsolete. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=L7wZqDQ7Pjg This video shows the Papp engine under a *dynamometer* test with narration and introduction by Jimmy Sabori. A high efficiency linear generator can be integrated into the design of the papp engine to convert the reciprocating motion of the piston into maximum electric power. This free-piston engine/generator combination has maximum high efficiency and reliability when converting motion to electric power because of the absence of the mechanical devices like a dedicated generator crankshaft, connecting rod, etc. The linear generator concept plays a very important role in this free-piston engine hybrid system to realize unparalleled high efficient electric power production approach.. This concept is best for transportation, or electric production at home or office when coupled with a generator. It can be instantly started or stopped based on demand whereas the Rossi reactor takes one hour to start of stop. This leaves the Rossi type reactor to best serve the very limited high process heat specialty industrial market. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=UNoxQDS3LlU The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of fusion. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his Noble Gas Plasma Engine. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
You saw the engine working with your own eyes and can get a demo kit for $350. I will be looking for reaction reports about the demo kit on the net. But I want to believe, and yet it is just too cool to be true. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 11:23 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I watched these as well and have to wonder if this is real. How could a system with these characteristics not attract more attention from the auto industry? Dave -Original Message- From: pagnucco pagnu...@htdconnect.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:13 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine Axil, I watched the videos you referenced. If correct, the over-unity claims should be very easy to verify. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil wrote: The Rossi reactor is already obsolete. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=L7wZqDQ7Pjg This video shows the Papp engine under a *dynamometer* test with narration and introduction by Jimmy Sabori. A high efficiency linear generator can be integrated into the design of the papp engine to convert the reciprocating motion of the piston into maximum electric power. This free-piston engine/generator combination has maximum high efficiency and reliability when converting motion to electric power because of the absence of the mechanical devices like a dedicated generator crankshaft, connecting rod, etc. The linear generator concept plays a very important role in this free-piston engine hybrid system to realize unparalleled high efficient electric power production approach.. This concept is best for transportation, or electric production at home or office when coupled with a generator. It can be instantly started or stopped based on demand whereas the Rossi reactor takes one hour to start of stop. This leaves the Rossi type reactor to best serve the very limited high process heat specialty industrial market. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=UNoxQDS3LlU The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of fusion. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Axil,
I believe that light is from a quantum singularity evaporating while
feeding off your rydberg matter. A perfect e=mc2 engine. See my grand
unification theory of cold fusion just posted.
On Monday, August 6, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:
The Rossi reactor is already obsolete.
Joseph Papp: Papp Engine
Footagehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=L7wZqDQ7Pjg
This video shows the Papp engine under a *dynamometer* test with
narration and introduction by Jimmy Sabori.
A high efficiency linear generator can be integrated into the design of
the papp engine to convert the reciprocating motion of the piston into
maximum electric power. This free-piston engine/generator combination has
maximum high efficiency and reliability when converting motion to
electric power because of the absence of the mechanical devices like a
dedicated generator crankshaft, connecting rod, etc. The linear generator
concept plays a very important role in this free-piston engine hybrid
system to realize unparalleled high efficient electric power production
approach..
This concept is best for transportation, or electric production at home
or office when coupled with a generator. It can be instantly started or
stopped based on demand whereas the Rossi reactor takes one hour to start
of stop. This leaves the Rossi type reactor to best serve the very limited
high process heat specialty industrial market.
Papp Piston
Testhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=UNoxQDS3LlU
The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the
papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the
transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the
formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding
that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of fusion.
Cheers: Axil
On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.comjavascript:_e({},
'cvml', 'pagnu...@htdconnect.com');
wrote:
Axil,
I am not acquainted with this engine.
You wrote -
After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their
elasticity.
Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition
Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)?
Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades?
If so, have RF-emissions been characterized?
Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the
phenomenon can be observed better?
I would be interested in answers to any of these questions
- especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect.
-- Lou Pagnucco
Axil^2 wrote:
*Noble Gas Plasma Engine *
In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his
“Noble Gas Plasma Engine”.
A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and
xenon)
fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage
discharge
in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston.
This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion
occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement.
After
the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and
density, and the cycle is repeated.
Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour .
Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper
end modifications.
Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the
engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The
inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each
cylinder every sixty thousand miles.
Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives
of
the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the
demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and
another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from
apparent neutron radiation from his engine.
There were indications that such an engine could provide its own
electrical
power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition
an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of
the
Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters
which provide the energy to expand the gases.
The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are
5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for
Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert
Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful
Work
from the Fuel.
There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems
to keep recycling through the new energy community.
Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called “inteligentry, LTD” to
simply
and optimized the Papp
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Quantum singularities are either created in these events or WIMPS awaken
that consume matter and antimatter and can eject antimatter ions as well
as gammas. It is not fusion or lenr, it is the evaporation of the
singularity causing this. WL theory is wrong
On Tuesday, August 7, 2012, wrote:
Well, here are a couple of old stories identifying some very surprising
e=mc^2 phenomena in atmospheric electrical discharges during
thunderstorms. Probably not related unless ionized noble gases are
excellent gamma absorbers, though.
Weather so severe it generates antimatter
http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/01/weather-so-severe-it-generates-antimatter/
NASA's Fermi Catches Thunderstorms Hurling Antimatter into Space
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/fermi-thunderstorms.html
Also, the August edition of Scientific American re-examines this:
Thunderclouds Make Gamma Rays—and Shoot Out Antimatter, Too
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=thunderclouds-make-gamma-rays-shout-out-matter
-- Lou Pagnucco
Chemical Engineer wrote:
Axil,
I believe that light is from a quantum singularity evaporating while
feeding off your rydberg matter. A perfect e=mc2 engine. See my grand
unification theory of cold fusion just posted.
On Monday, August 6, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:
The Rossi reactor is already obsolete.
Joseph Papp: Papp Engine
Footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=L7wZqDQ7Pjg
This video shows the Papp engine under a *dynamometer* test with
narration and introduction by Jimmy Sabori.
A high efficiency linear generator can be integrated into the design of
the papp engine to convert the reciprocating motion of the piston into
maximum electric power. This free-piston engine/generator combination
has
maximum high efficiency and reliability when converting motion to
electric power because of the absence of the mechanical devices like a
dedicated generator crankshaft, connecting rod, etc. The linear
generator
concept plays a very important role in this free-piston engine hybrid
system to realize unparalleled high efficient electric power production
approach..
This concept is best for transportation, or electric production at home
or office when coupled with a generator. It can be instantly started or
stopped based on demand whereas the Rossi reactor takes one hour to
start
of stop. This leaves the Rossi type reactor to best serve the very
limited
high process heat specialty industrial market.
Papp Piston
Testhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=UNoxQDS3LlU
The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the
papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the
transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the
formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding
that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of
fusion.
Cheers: Axil
On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM,
pagnu...@htdconnect.com javascript:;javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'pagnu...@htdconnect.com javascript:;');
wrote:
Axil,
I am not acquainted with this engine.
You wrote -
After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their
elasticity.
Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition
Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)?
Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades?
If so, have RF-emissions been characterized?
Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the
phenomenon can be observed better?
I would be interested in answers to any of these questions
- especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect.
-- Lou Pagnucco
Axil^2 wrote:
*Noble Gas Plasma Engine *
In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his
“Noble Gas Plasma Engine”.
A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and
xenon)
fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage
discharge
in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston.
This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion
occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement.
After
the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume
and
density, and the cycle is repeated.
Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour .
Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with
upper
end modifications.
Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders,
the
engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower.
The
inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge
each
cylinder every sixty thousand miles.
Papp had
