Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Persisting vblade exports

2018-09-12 Thread Ed Cashin
This looks like good stuff! I’m away from proper computers for a few days. Then I’ll give this the attention it deserves. Thanks. On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 12:41 PM Christoph Biedl < sourceforge.b...@manchmal.in-ulm.de> wrote: > Ed Cashin wrote... > > > In the past it has bee

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Persisting vblade exports

2018-09-12 Thread Ed Cashin
Does the OpenAoE vblade master look like it picked up your changes correctly? On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 1:26 PM Ed Cashin wrote: > This looks like good stuff! I’m away from proper computers for a few days. > Then I’ll give this the attention it deserves. > > Thanks. > > On Sat,

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] OpenVMS AoE initiator

2017-11-20 Thread Ed Cashin
On 11/20/2017 06:32 PM, Swift Griggs wrote: Is there an OpenVMS AoE initiator ? I'm guessing there isn't. We (folks here at the PARSEC Group) might be interested in writing one. However, right now I'm looking for a good starting point. I took a look at the code in the Linux kernel. I also

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] [PATCH] Dealing with a missing interface

2017-11-19 Thread Ed Cashin
Hi, Christoph. Thanks very much for the suggestion and patch. Do you use github? Would you be willing to open a pull request on OpenAoE/vblade? (I tried replying earlier with my cell phone but failed. Sorry for the delay.) -- Ed On 11/10/2017 12:58 PM, Christoph Biedl wrote: Hello,

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Persisting vblade exports

2017-11-19 Thread Ed Cashin
Hi, Christoph. In the past it has been difficult to say anything specific about startup that applies to a majority of popular Linux distributions. I think we're still in that situation, but perhaps systemd could change it. I know there are a few distros that do not use systemd, though. I

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Query on AoE initiator accessing target started locally over lo

2017-08-27 Thread Ed Cashin
Hi. I have some comments between quotes below. On 08/24/2017 01:18 AM, Nivin Lawrence wrote: ... The system can be considered as one with dual CPU complex, but a single SSD. There are 2 operating systems, OS-1 and OS-2 running on each of the CPU complex, OS-1 boots first and takes control of

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Query on AoE initiator accessing target started locally over lo

2017-08-23 Thread Ed Cashin
On 08/17/2017 10:39 PM, Nivin Lawrence wrote: ... __1)__Is all the code for AoE initiator/target located @ https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/block/aoe ? No, that's the initiator for the Linux kernel, the most popular initiator.

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] end_request: I/O error

2015-06-16 Thread Ed Cashin
Adi, do you think aoetools-36/aoesancheck is a good next step? On 06/16/2015 01:57 PM, Daofeng Li wrote: ok...I'm totally lost... :) $ ethtool -k em1 Features for em1: rx-checksumming: on tx-checksumming: on tx-checksum-ipv4: on tx-checksum-ip-generic: off [fixed] tx-checksum-ipv6: on

[Aoetools-discuss] aoetools-37 on github

2015-06-16 Thread Ed Cashin
Hi. There's a new aoetools release. Please try it and provide feedback if you can. https://github.com/OpenAoE/aoetools/archive/aoetools-37.tar.gz Here is a snippet from the NEWS file: 2015-06-16 Ed Cashin ed.cas...@acm.org update documentation for OpenAoE clean up code based on set

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] ping

2015-06-12 Thread Ed Cashin
Hi. There is some stuff going on, but some of it is on github and openaoe.org. I'm also working on updating the aoetools RPM to support systemd-oriented RPM macros. https://github.com/OpenAoE/ http://www.openaoe.org/ Does the pre-release aoe driver (aoe6-86pre1) work for you, if you can

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] vblade chs boundary warning

2015-02-25 Thread Ed Cashin
to work on, not targets. I'm open to further changes. Thanks! On 21/02/2015 3:45 AM, Ed Cashin wrote: These days, when something appears not to be working, people Google. So we've already done a lot by putting information that they can find on the mailing list. The original email

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] question about file system

2014-12-04 Thread Ed Cashin
On 12/04/2014 11:28 AM, Adi Kriegisch wrote: Hey! Linux 2.6.32-71.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri May 20 03:51:51 BST 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux (...) # aoe-version aoetools: 35 installed aoe driver: 47 running aoe driver: 47 I experienced

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] vblade-22-rc1 is first release candidate for version 22

2014-07-15 Thread Ed Cashin
On 07/15/2014 01:29 AM, David Leach wrote: Ed, I'm less concerned about the initiator side as we don't really have direct control over what it requests. What I suggest is that these requests from the host on the initiator will likely be aligned requests due to how their file system works

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] vblade-22-rc1 is first release candidate for version 22

2014-07-14 Thread Ed Cashin
On 07/13/2014 06:23 PM, David Leach wrote: So I do find it interesting to have a configuration to limit the size of the read/write request but it seems like it would be useful to understand the side affects on why someone would want to do this. Catalin suggested that reducing the size of

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] vblade-22-rc1 is first release candidate for version 22

2014-07-11 Thread Ed Cashin
some details about specific performance differences, to motivate potential users to try the patch. (I'm composing this in Thunderbird, and I hope I'm not going to send HTML mail!) On 06/14/2014 11:59 PM, Catalin Salgau wrote: On 15/06/2014 4:06 AM, Ed Cashin wrote: Hi, Catalin Salgau. I have

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] vblade-22-rc1 is first release candidate for version 22

2014-07-09 Thread Ed Cashin
On 2014-07-07 20:18, Ed Cashin wrote: On 2014-06-15 07:08, Catalin Salgau wrote: ... Legacy note: Negotiation is, I believe, a reminiscence from before the Query Config Information 'Sector Count' field was added, in AoEr9. But I would argue that this was invalid behaviour in AoEr8 (and maybe

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] AoE performance on small boxes

2014-05-26 Thread Ed Cashin
Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs ___ Aoetools-discuss mailing list Aoetools-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/aoetools-discuss -- Ed Cashin ed.cas

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] [PATCH] Implement an offset option for vbladed

2014-05-20 Thread Ed Cashin
Good idea, thanks! On May 20, 2014, at 4:24 PM, Christoph Biedl sourceforge.b...@manchmal.in-ulm.de wrote: Ed Cashin wrote... I was thinking of something like this: https://github.com/ecashin/vblade/commit/ca2dbda0a35ba686c0ed64e109748129c510fa90 Please let me know if that looks OK

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] [PATCH] Incorrect shelf/slot handling in BPF

2014-05-19 Thread Ed Cashin
I think you mean that a vblade that's AoE 11.22 should answer AoE commands sent to 0x.2 or 11.0xff but does not currently. It would be very nice if we had a collection of tests, so that you could also include a test that showed what this fix corrects and validated the fix itself. Alas.

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] [PATCH] Implement an offset option for vbladed

2014-05-19 Thread Ed Cashin
On May 19, 2014, at 6:46 PM, Christoph Biedl sourceforge.b...@manchmal.in-ulm.de wrote: Ed Cashin wrote... ... but noticed along the way that you're using atoi. Because you're supporting 64-bit numbers, would you mind sending a patch that uses strtoll or doing it in git and sending a pull

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Exposing shares

2014-05-13 Thread Ed Cashin
Fredriksson tu...@bayour.com wrote: On May 13, 2014, at 3:31 AM, Ed Cashin wrote: OK, I've got this: https://github.com/ecashin/vblade/ Perfect, thanx! Is this 'latest-and-greatest' (development) at the moment, or did you create from the current released version (21 I think

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] [PATCH] Implement an offset option for vbladed

2014-05-12 Thread Ed Cashin
, Christoph Biedl sourceforge.b...@manchmal.in-ulm.de wrote: Ed Cashin wrote... That sounds like a natural complement to your first patch, yes. If you've got the momentum to whip together the second patch, I could merge them both at once. Here you are. The patch below is to replace

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Exposing shares

2014-05-12 Thread Ed Cashin
, at 8:52 PM, Turbo Fredriksson tu...@bayour.com wrote: On May 13, 2014, at 2:38 AM, Ed Cashin wrote: Would it help you to do something like this if vblade was on github? You could implement your full-featured vbladed replacement in a fork and see how it goes. Any version management

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] [PATCH] Implement an offset option for vbladed

2014-05-09 Thread Ed Cashin
Thanks. This looks interesting. I like the way you provided a detailed explanation of the motivation for the patch. Do you agree that the offset should be a vlong so that it can support the same large values that the size can support? An unsigned int sometimes isn't going to be 64 bits. On

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] AoE support in tcpdump

2014-05-08 Thread Ed Cashin
That is fantastic! I hope I get a chance to try this soon. Thanks much for the announcement. On May 8, 2014, at 8:09 AM, Denis Ovsienko infrastat...@yandex.ru wrote: List, the master branch of tcpdump now supports basic AoE decoding. If anybody would like to improve it, the right place

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] AOE v83 - unknown device

2014-03-31 Thread Ed Cashin
script? On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 08:55:09PM +, Ed Cashin wrote: Just some quick thoughts in a hurry... Talking about minor numbers is naturally confusing with the aoe driver, because there are at least two kinds: * The AoE address is comprised of a {major, minor} pair, often called

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] AOE v83 - unknown device

2014-03-31 Thread Ed Cashin
On Mar 31, 2014, at 7:52 PM, James R. Leu j...@inoc.com wrote: We're on CentOS 6 kernels - 2.6.32 Which user space tools are you referring too? This was before CentOS 6, so I am having trouble remembering. I had to send a patch to LVM2, and there was even a problem with something basic like

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] AOE v83 - unknown device

2014-03-28 Thread Ed Cashin
Just some quick thoughts in a hurry... Talking about minor numbers is naturally confusing with the aoe driver, because there are at least two kinds: * The AoE address is comprised of a {major, minor} pair, often called shelf.slot. AoE minor number * The Linux system has special block

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] ggaoed and ro filesystem during heavy write

2014-01-21 Thread Ed Cashin
...@bbaw.de wrote: Hi Ed, does aoe accept the unexpected responses? What can be the reason that aoe issues Query Config Information Requests? Lars Fri, 17 Jan 2014 15:17:50 + Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com == Lars Täuber taeu...@bbaw.de : On Jan 16, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Lars Täuber

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] ggaoed and ro filesystem during heavy write

2014-01-17 Thread Ed Cashin
On Jan 16, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Lars Täuber taeu...@bbaw.demailto:taeu...@bbaw.de wrote: Hi Ed, Thu, 16 Jan 2014 09:03:14 -0500 Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.commailto:ecas...@coraid.com == j...@inoc.commailto:j...@inoc.com : The AoE initiator (the side using the storage) called aoe does retransmit

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] build error ( gcc 4.8.1, glibc 2.18, kernel 3.10.14)

2013-10-14 Thread Ed Cashin
@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/aoetools-discuss -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Question about identify device ATA command in vblade

2013-10-03 Thread Ed Cashin
suspicions? Looking at ATA 6 draft rev. 3b section 18.5 I see also see that sector count is NA on input. -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] ggaoed linux kernel client with minor/slot = 16

2013-04-23 Thread Ed Cashin
/employer_resources/index.html ___ Aoetools-discuss mailing list Aoetools-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/aoetools-discuss -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] AoE Target implementaion for LIO?

2012-10-21 Thread Ed Cashin
On Oct 21, 2012, at 9:03 AM, Nicolas Jungers wrote: On 2012-10-19 15:19, Ed Cashin wrote: AoE use is accelerating rapidly, and iSCSI persists because even though it's not the best fit for same-LAN data storage, folks can still get it to work if they are willing and able to deal

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] AoE Target implementaion for LIO?

2012-10-19 Thread Ed Cashin
associated technologies, including open source technologies. -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Patch for Python interface for vblade

2010-12-21 Thread Ed Cashin
think it's fine as is for an experimental contributed patch, since it's applied at the end user's option. * any comments on implementation I'd like to hear those from anyone who tries the patch. -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Weird issue with aoe

2010-08-22 Thread Ed Cashin
on the persistent storage, as host A writes things that make sense only based on the info it has in RAM, even though host B has changed the persistent copy of that info! -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com -- This SF.net

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] aoe6-74 linux-2.6.34

2010-06-15 Thread Ed Cashin
modversions, then please let me know. On Jun 15, 2010, at 1:23 PM, Yacine Kheddache wrote: FYI, 2.6.27 = KO (full details sent to support) 2.6.31 = OK On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 12:37 -0400, Ed Cashin wrote: Serge Leschinsky, would you mind please testing the aoe6-75pre1 patch that's now on the aoe

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] aoe6-74 linux-2.6.34

2010-06-10 Thread Ed Cashin
the initial checks otherwise. Thanks for the patch. Does the patched version work fine for you? -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com -- ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] active/active aoe + raid0

2009-10-15 Thread Ed Cashin
a third location for data to be: the RAM of the second AoE initiator doing md. -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com http://www.coraid.com/ http://noserose.net/e/ -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] active/active aoe + raid0

2009-10-15 Thread Ed Cashin
On Thu Oct 15 12:56:00 EDT 2009, ma...@digitalwest.net wrote: ... At what layer(s) does page cache come into play? I know the gist of how it functions but not the dirty details. I thought it only came into play when using a filesystem? For example, if the controllers shared a block

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] active/active aoe + raid0

2009-10-15 Thread Ed Cashin
initiators that were writing to the same areas on the AoE targets. -- Ed Cashin -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] AoE problem with Ext4fs

2009-10-09 Thread Ed Cashin
/show_bug.cgi?id=14343 http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13942 And the specific fix is ... http://bugzilla.kernel.org/attachment.cgi?id=23068 -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com http://www.coraid.com/ http://noserose.net/e

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] AoE problem with Ext4fs

2009-10-09 Thread Ed Cashin
On Fri Oct 9 12:43:10 EDT 2009, ecas...@coraid.com wrote: ... Hi. This issue is resolved in the stable release, 2.6.31.y. Sorry for the cryptic reference. The kernels released at kernel.org have three parts, like 2.6.31, but stable kernels are released based on these three-part releases. The

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] AoE problem with Ext4fs

2009-10-09 Thread Ed Cashin
On Fri Oct 9 13:08:44 EDT 2009, pitt+aoetools-disc...@segfault.info wrote: ... Whats the difference between the aoe6 tar.gz and the aoe kernel module in the mainline kernel? Which one should I use? The driver at CORAID's website has features that we intend to push into the kernel.org driver.

[Aoetools-discuss] aoe6-73pre2 has 2.6.31 support

2009-09-22 Thread Ed Cashin
Hi. There's a prerelease of the next aoe tarball here: http://support.coraid.com/support/linux/aoe6-73pre2.tar.gz It adds compatibility with 2.6.31, while aiming to preserve backwards compatibility. When backwards compatibility has been tested, aoe6-73 will be released. -- Ed Cashin

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Retransmit issues

2009-08-07 Thread Ed Cashin
A couple of things come to mind. One is that there was a period where drivers could not use jumbo frames. That was followed by a long period where aoe drivers reported the maximum usable payload size in `aoe-stat`, but they would never use more than 4096-byte payloads. Starting with aoe6-49, the

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] packets receiving through aoe driver

2009-07-28 Thread Ed Cashin
Dear All, Can anybody help me in understanding of packets transmission and receiving between aoe client aoe server ? Although it's not light reading, the AoE protocol is so short that you could probably get all your answers from there:

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Changes needed to build aoe6-71 against linux 2.6.30

2009-07-20 Thread Ed Cashin
On Mon Jul 20 06:36:30 EDT 2009, m...@wol.de wrote: Hello Ed, similar changes to the following are needed to build aoe6-71 against kernels 2.6.30.1 and following... http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-2.6-stable.git;a=commitdiff;h=04b3ab52a000ab7e718efc97e9fdd67d95002d11

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Changes needed to build aoe6-71 againstlinux 2.6.30

2009-07-20 Thread Ed Cashin
On Mon Jul 20 11:01:12 EDT 2009, e...@echoreply.us wrote: ... I'm packaging AoE for a new server distro that hopes to release next month. What I'm going to do is just bundle replace the stock mainline driver with our aoe-server and aoe-cluster-server packages. By stock mainline driver you

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Sector count problem

2009-05-22 Thread Ed Cashin
On Fri May 22 07:19:45 EDT 2009, philip.kirchh...@solectrix.de wrote: Hello Ed, I was now able to install the driver. But still the number of requested sectors is not higher than 8. Do you have any other idea? Which driver did you install and which is running? You can tell by examining

[Aoetools-discuss] (no subject)

2009-05-19 Thread Ed Cashin
From ecashin Tue May 19 07:30:28 EDT 2009 From: Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com X-Mailer: nedmail Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 07:30:28 -0400 To: erkris...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Aoetools-discuss] vblade attachement detachment process Message-ID: 09219b2a04f940ddd6ff8c42c44b1...@coraid.com In-Reply

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] vblade attachement detachment process

2009-05-19 Thread Ed Cashin
I don't understand why you mention vbladed and detach together. The vbladed is a wrapper for vblade that launches it as a daemon. Your aoe-flush command cannot work without a /dev/etherd/flush device file in place. Check the Linux Support Page at CORAID for distro-specific tips, where you'll

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] vblade attachement detachment process

2009-05-19 Thread Ed Cashin
Oh. And as for the vblade process itself, just kill it like any other userland process. (And like any userland process, you'd send a SIGTERM, not a SIGKILL, so that the process has a chance to do any necessary cleanup on exit.) -- Ed

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Sector count problem

2009-05-18 Thread Ed Cashin
The Ubuntu driver probably only works with a maximum of PAGE_SIZE data per AoE packet. The driver on the CORAID website can have more than PAGE_SIZE bytes in each AoE packet. -- Ed -- Crystal Reports - New Free

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] platform dependency of available aoe targets

2009-04-14 Thread Ed Cashin
, although I think there are compatibility layers that partially iplement sockets, without providing raw ones. -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com Find experimental aoe Linux driver patches at http://coraid.typepad.com/aoe_linux_proving_grounds

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] platform dependency of available aoe targets

2009-04-14 Thread Ed Cashin
On Tue Apr 14 13:09:05 EDT 2009, maht-aoeto...@mail.maht0x0r.net wrote: Hi, Don't forget Plan 9 From Bell Labs Erik ported vblade there too Thanks. I checked the README in the vblade sources to see what platforms were available, but I think Erik's port isn't listed there because it's

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Comparing LW16800, vblade, and iSCSI

2009-04-13 Thread Ed Cashin
to interpret the results in a meaningful way. It's often more practical to simply try a configuration that fits your needs and then compare it to similar configurations. -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com Find experimental aoe Linux driver patches at http://coraid.typepad.com

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] My changes to vblade

2009-03-30 Thread Ed Cashin
into the vblade proper by popular demand. I think the idea of making vbladed check for a config file is interesting. -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com Find experimental aoe Linux driver patches at http://coraid.typepad.com/aoe_linux_proving_grounds

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] My changes to vblade

2009-03-27 Thread Ed Cashin
. It is easier to get right. -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com Find experimental aoe Linux driver patches at http://coraid.typepad.com/aoe_linux_proving_grounds/ -- ___ Aoetools

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] xen+aoe

2009-03-23 Thread Ed Cashin
suggestions. For the record, would you mind please listing the old kernel and aoe driver versions as well as the new versions? -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com Find experimental aoe Linux driver patches at http://coraid.typepad.com/aoe_linux_proving_grounds

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] 2.6.28.2 and aoe6-70 do not mix ? :)

2009-02-06 Thread Ed Cashin
you a head start. If that sounds interesting, email me off list, and I'll send you the materials. -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] aoe6-68 doesn't build against 2.6.28 ...

2009-01-21 Thread Ed Cashin
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 03:12:32PM -0500, Ed Cashin wrote: I have to make sure the changes work on a few popular kernels before making a release, but I think this patch against version 68 resolves the compatibility issues for 2.6.28. A new prerelease fixes the conf/21 test and adds

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Unbearably slow performance

2009-01-12 Thread Ed Cashin
disk is capable of. ... What else can I look at? One thing to look for would be a network link that is switching between gigabit and 10 Mbps. -- Ed Cashin ecas...@coraid.com -- This SF.net email is sponsored

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Problem with self built AoE Server

2008-09-11 Thread Ed Cashin
in the config query response. http://support.coraid.com/documents/AoEr10.txt -- Ed Cashin [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Vblading files over NAS level storage.

2008-09-02 Thread Ed Cashin
complex and too far off the beaten path to use if the possibility of failure is not acceptable and the investment has no side benefits---Sometimes learning about technologies has unforseeable benefits. -- Ed Cashin [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [Aoetools-discuss] Introduction

2008-07-15 Thread Ed Cashin
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 09:23:59AM +0100, maht wrote: ... p.s. sorry if this is a dupe, I'm playing with Opera mail and I don't think it went first go ! The sourceforge mailing lists are pretty slow to deliver mail. -- Ed Cashin [EMAIL PROTECTED