Re: Encryption law in Israel
On Tue Aug 17 18:21:13 1999, Aviram Jenik wrote about "Re: Encryption law in Israel": That's totally untrue. This law is rather new (from the 70s I think), and it's very much enforced. Every company that produces software that uses encryption of some kind has to obtain a special permit before being able to sell it. There are a few cases I know of, of companies who were forced to stop developing and wait for the wheels of beurocracy to produce the permit. However, the Shabak could care less about your Linux box and whether or not it runs SSH. They are worried about companies like Checkpoint producing 'computerized weapons' in the form of strong encryption VPNs. You can argue from now until the end of times on whether or not it's okay in a democracy, but fact is: It's the law. Again, no need for rm -rf /. The Shabak won't come knocking at your door and you probably have nothing to worry about unless you're selling software with strong encryption, or you're administrating a govermental network. You are missing a very important point: this law *DID* affect me: the sysadmin I was talking about asked me to use DES encryption on his system and not the globally-accepted encryption methods (DES is not compiled into ssh servers by default!). Personally I don't care for the shabak to look around my computer - I have nothing to hide - but I don't want crackers to look around my computer! I really resent the ease at which people say "you have nothing to worry about this law if.." or "this law is never enforced". The fact that this law exists may mean my use of SSH (I've been using it for 4 years) PGP (I've been using it for about 8 years), and perhaps other things (SSL, SET, etc.) may have been illegal. I'm sure the police and Praklitut have better things to do than to indict me for personal encryption use, but who knows, maybe sometime in the future the police will go after somebody they don't like (e.g., some police-unfriendly reporter) with such rediculous charges. I'm not a criminal, and I don't want any of my daily actions to be deemed illegal. I think that this is a basic right in a democracy. P.S. the URL quoted by someone in a previous message seems to imply that all "unauthorized" use of encryption is illegal, including personal use (I didn't see any mention of such an exception), but that the authorities have "guidelines" not prosecute people using "weak" encryption. Another person said that these guidelines are actually part of the law. So which is true? -- Nadav Har'El | ## # | -- Sorry if Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | # # # | you can't Department of Mathematics, Technion | # # # | read Hebrew. Israel Institute of Technology | # ## | Nadav. ;) WWW page: http://harel.org.il/nadav ICQ #13349191 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sending SMS messages to Orange phones
On Tue Sep 7 17:03:21 1999, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote about "Re: Sending SMS messages to Orange phones": Cellcom is free, but the owner of the phone has to pay extra for the message service. You do have to get a login, and each login is limited to 100 messages in 21 days. This replaces their "Mail Push" service, which the very mention of makes syadmins cringe. Their current limit is, as far as I know, 20 messages per day, but of course it's trivial to get around by opening multiple accounts. The old limit was 100 messages in 7 days. Orange's costs 20 ag/msg and you have to pay in advance. That's not true: Orange users get SMS service free with their standard package, and can receive messages for free. Anyone can send messages to Orange phones for free form the Internet, by using either Orange.co.il's own website, or gosms.com's site. 20 ag/msg is the price of gosms.com's (rather useless, in my view) email gateway to SMSs. Sending an SMS form an orange phone costs 9 agorot per message, BTW, and it can even be used to send email from your Orange phone! See gosms.com. -- Nadav Har'El | ## # | -- Sorry if Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | # # # | you can't Department of Mathematics, Technion | # # # | read Hebrew. Israel Institute of Technology | # ## | Nadav. ;) WWW page: http://harel.org.il/nadav ICQ #13349191 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sending SMS messages to Orange phones
Here's a script for cellcom SMSs. It also requires registring in Cellcom's
site (http://text.cellcom.co.il/webp/Cgi/PU/PU_Login.exe?Lang=Eng) to obtain
a username and password.
It also doesn't work with newlines in the message.
---
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
# Copyright (C) 1999 Nadav Har'El. All rights reserved.
require 5.004;
use Carp;
use LWP::UserAgent;
use URI::Escape;
#
### User-specific information: later, this information should be got from
### a user configuration file.
# Cellcom SMS service registration: registration is free at at
# http://text.cellcom.co.il/webp/Cgi/PU/PU_Login.exe?Lang=Eng
my $CELLCOMTEXT_USER="username"; my $CELLCOMTEXT_PASSWORD="password";
if($#ARGV+1 != 3){
print STDERR "Usage: $0 phonenum sender message\n";
exit 1;
}
my $phonenum=$ARGV[0];
# remove optional spaces, parantheses, or hyphens from phone number
$phonenum =~ s/[ ()-]//go;
my $sender=$ARGV[1];
my $message=$ARGV[2];
print "Sending to $phonenum: $message ($sender)\n";
##
my ($ua,$req);
$ua = new LWP::UserAgent;
$ua-agent("perl");
if($phonenum =~ m/^05[23][0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]/){
CELLCOM ###
my ($hiddenfields);
$req = new HTTP::Request 'GET' =
"http://text.cellcom.co.il/webp/Cgi/PU/PU_CheckLogin.exe?Lang=EngUserName=$CELLCOMTEXT_USERPASSWORD=$CELLCOMTEXT_PASSWORD";
$req-header('Accept' = 'text/html');
$res = $ua-request($req);
if ($res-is_success) {
my (@tmplist,$s);
# look for hidden fields in the returned form (res-content)
# but not RecipientString, which we will change:
@tmplist=split '\n', $res-content;
$hiddenfields="";
foreach $s (grep /"Hidden"/, @tmplist){
next if $s =~ /RecipientString/;
$s =~ s/^.*NAME="//o;
$s =~ s/"[ \t]*VALUE="/=/o;
$s =~ s/"/\/;
$hiddenfields=$hiddenfields . $s;
}
} else {
# TODO: retry several times, sleeping between tries.
print STDERR "Error: " . $res-status_line . "\n";
exit 3;
}
if($hiddenfields eq ""){
# TODO: try to recover somehow (use another account?)
# maybe try to figure out what went wrong by looking
# at $res-content.
print STDERR "Error: bad response from Cellcom's site\n";
exit 4;
}
# now that we have session information ($hiddenfields), send the
# sms.
# TODO: change newlines to spaces, because it seems we don't get
# anything after the first newline. BTW, a newline at the end of
# the message is a way not to the the "(sender)" line! :)
$req = new HTTP::Request 'GET' =
"http://text.cellcom.co.il/webp/Cgi/PU/PU_SendMessage.exe?" .
"$hiddenfieldsSenderName=" . uri_escape($sender, "^A-Za-z") .
"CurrMsg=" . uri_escape($message, "^A-Za-z") .
"Urgency=NormalRecipientString=$phonenum";
$req-header('Accept' = 'text/html');
$res = $ua-request($req);
if ($res-is_success) {
# TODO: check that the returned text is correct, then we'll
# be really sure the message was sent.
if($res-content =~ /Sent successfully/){
print "Sent successfully.\n";
} else {
# TODO: try to recover somehow maybe try to figure out
# what went wrong by looking at $res-content.
print "Error: unexpected response from Celcom's site\n";
exit 6;
}
} else {
# TODO: retry several times, sleeping between tries.
print STDERR "Error: " . $res-status_line . "\n";
exit 5;
}
# TODO: I didn't copy here the old logout code from my old sendsms.
# I'm not sure if it's needed: or worse - what it does. Maybe it
# makes sendsms non-reentrant? So far I didn't get any problems
# because I don't "log out".
# $WGET -O $TMPF
"http://text.cellcom.co.il/webp/Cgi/PU/PU_Logout.exe?UserName=$CELLCOMTEXT_USERLang=Eng"
} elsif($phonenum =~ m/^054[0-9]
Re: linux book
On Fri Sep 10 23:09:04 1999, Nimrod Mesika wrote about "Re: linux book":
the rookie wrote:
hi, can someone recommend a book to start using linux?
(and that's mean: programming in linux, communication
stuff, and the shell commands)
Not a Linux specific boot but a good reading if you want to understand
the philosophy of the UNIX operating system: "The UNIX Programming
Environment" by Kernighan and Pike.
A bit dated but still a good book.
This is indeed a wonderful book, and in fact this is the book I learned
UNIX from, 14 years ago. But saying it's "a bit dated" is an an
understatement :) Even then, on ATT's 7th edition research UNIX,
the book was a bit dated. (I'm assuming there isn't a new edition of that
book - as far as I know there isn't. I wonder if it's still in print).
For example, I remember it explains how the "#" character is used to delete
a character, and it took me a while to understand that the "backspace" key
actually does that, and that the "#" key had been used before, when there
weren't CRT terminals, but rather printers and keyboard, and printers
couldn't erase a character, so a "#" was used to signify a deleted character.
Other things of great importance that have happened since this book was
written: 1) job control was added to Unix 2) newer shells (ksh, zsh, and
even the abominable tcsh) have many new features 3) The C section teaches
KR C, which is different in many respects from the current ANSI C
implementations. 4) Some new programs, such telnet, ftp, and more, should
definately be taught to beginners 5) X-windows came along.
So, for a UNIX beginner, I'd probably recommend getting much more modern
book - but try to get one from a respected author, and not some local
crap written in Hebrew by some guy with 2 years programming expereince.
It's still possible to learn UNIX from that book today (someone I know
learned UNIX from it about 3 years ago), but you'd constantly have to
watch out for things that have changed since. Non-beginners should definately
read this book - even if only for its historical significance.
When looking for a more modern book, you should look for books with a
similar scope as that of "The Unix Programming Environment", i.e., you
should look for a book which explains at least:
1. Getting started
2. Using the shell and basic commands
3. Basic shell commands for networking and windowing.
4. Programming the shell and/or other scripting languages (awk, perl,
etc.)
5. Programming in C.
6. Other topics relevant to C programming: yacc, and maybe even socket
programming, X-windows programming, etc.
If someone can give a pointer to such a "Modern Unix Programming Environment"
book, it would be very nice. I'm sorry I don't know of any such book to
recommend.
The original "Unix Programming Environment" was a very special book in that
it can take an absolute beginner (in fact, when I first started reading it,
I didn't know programming in any programming language), and after reading
the whole book, you really know *a lot* about the Unix operating system and
most its important parts. It also includes example programs which were
*extremely* useful, some I use to this day:
1. I still use Brian Kernighan's improved "cal" script to this day.
2. I improved considerably their 'get' and 'put' scripts to make a complete
source-code control system which I sometimes use even today (when I
think I won't need all the power of RCS).
3. I improved considerably on their 'hoc' high-order-calculator, and now
I have a suphisticated interpreter for numerical expressions, function
evaluation, etc., which I use to this day instead of a simple calculator.
Kernighan probably won't recognize my hoc if he saw it, with autoconf
configuration, dozens of new operators and functions, local variables,
etc., but the base for my hoc is from his book.
Good luck and Shana Tova,
Nadav.
--
Nadav Har'El | ## # | -- Sorry if
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | # # # | you can't
Department of Mathematics, Technion | # # # | read Hebrew.
Israel Institute of Technology | # ## | Nadav. ;)
WWW page: http://harel.org.il/nadav ICQ #13349191
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Attention, RH Resellers
On Tue, Oct 05, 1999, Eli Marmor wrote about "Attention, RH Resellers": There are resellers of RedHat among linux-il subscribers (e.g. PF1, Software Sources, TclTek, etc.), and some of them use (sometimes) trips to bring CDs and packages, and not only a normal shipping. Since the 6.1 package that RH ships for foreign countries lacks many features (not only crypto and 128 bit support, but also Star- Office and so on), and since there is no Israeli law against IMPORT of such stuff into Israel, it can be nice if they could CHECK the possibility of buying the FULL 6.1 packages there, and bringing them into Israel. I'm not a lawyer, so maybe there is a problem with it, but it must be checked (I know that the American law prohibits RedHat from selling/shipping the full package to foreign countries, but it does not prohinit it from selling it to a person in a store in America and so on). I have two reservations about what you said: First, as we discussed previously in this group, importing the crypto parts to Israel, as well as actually using them, *may* be illegal according to Israeli laws... Second, it is important to understand that American law does not apply only to American citizens: for example, as an Israeli citizen you're not allowed to murder someone in the US, and if you're caught in the US doing that, you'd be tried and sentenced in the US. How does this apply in this case? The American ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) prohibit the export from the US of certain kinds of encryption software. Now, you're right that if Redhat sold it to you in a store in America in good faith then they are not culpable, but *you* - the guy who took that CD out of the US and into Israel - broke the ITAR laws! I'm not saying the CIA will hunt you down, but if the Americans for some reason will want to give you a hard time, you can forget about ever entering the US again... The usual I'm-not-a-lawyer disclaimer applies :) -- Nadav Har'El | ## # | -- Sorry if Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | # # # | you can't Department of Mathematics, Technion | # # # | read Hebrew. Israel Institute of Technology | # ## | Nadav. ;) WWW page: http://harel.org.il/nadav ICQ #13349191 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Eliminating Junk E-mail for List members
On Wed, Nov 03, 1999, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Eliminating Junk E-mail for List members": Right now, the Linux-IL archives list the senders of the messages along with their E-mails. As it is, Spam harvesters can process the archives looking for E-mail addresses. So, list subscribers can expect to get more spam because of sending messages to the list. One way to eliminate this is to place a link to a CGI script that will return a mailto: URL instead of the standard ... I use a much simpler method on the Ivrix mailing-list archives: I simply convert *everything* that looks like an email address to the string "email@hidden". Granted, this way people will not be able to find any emails in the archives, but I'm not sure this is a real problem. To talk to mailing-list subscribers, people should probably join the list and mail to it. It is still my contention that it is impolite for people to reply directly to posters (instead of answering them in the list), and defeats the reason for which the mailing-list was set up in the first place. Other tricks, like the ones suggested by Shlomi, can easily be defeated by spammers (although I doubt they actually do it now): after all, the spammers already have a web-crawler to harvest email address. Why couldn't this web-crawler follow the cgi link, see it is a redirect to a "mailto:" link, and so add that email to it's crop?! Other tricks, like adding or changing stuff in the middle of the addresses, are possible too, but unless someone has a good reason not to hide all email address as I suggested above, I'll stick to that fool-proof (and spam-proof) method. Here's an example script to change all email addresses in a file to the string "email@hidden": sed 's/[a-zA-Z0-9_.-]*\@[a-zA-Z0-9_.-]*[a-zA-Z0-9_-]/email@hidden/g' in out P.S. to anyone still bothered by spam, I suggest checking out procmail and rblcheck. I admit it's very hard to set up with appropriate rules (my procmail scripts are now over 600 lines), and to prevent false-positives, but if scripting and spam-fighting are your passions, the results are very rewarding. e.g, spam used to account for 50% of the emails I get (not counting mailing lists), and now it is only about 1% :) And now I don't have to worry if spammers get my address. -- Nadav Har'El | ## # | -- Sorry if Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | # # # | you can't Department of Mathematics, Technion | # # # | read Hebrew. Israel Institute of Technology | # ## | Nadav. ;) WWW page: http://harel.org.il/nadav ICQ #13349191 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail problem
r worse; invisibly redirect SMTP traffic to that host.) What does IPv6 have to do with these issues? Blocking direct port-25 traffic is a very interesting anti-spam measure that I haven't seen implemented before, and while it may sound "bad" and anti-freedom, I can't see what harm it can actually do to "normal" users, not spammers. will get listed. The ORBS database also lists some hosts which relay mail only for e.g. the ORBS test machine, and so are NOT really a risk to the Internet. Sites using the ORBS database implicitly choose not This is not true. A machine cannot "accidentally" relay mail only for ORBS's test machines, and not to any other machine on the Internet. How can this happen??? There's a different issue, of second-hand relaying, e.g., some ISP may have a client using their mail server (smarthost) and that client's mail server has an open relay: but this issue is solvable too if the ISP cared to solve it. -- Nadav Har'El|Saturday, Nov 6 1999, 27 Heshvan 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A thing is not necessarily true because http://harel.org.il/nadav |a man dies for it. - Oscar Wilde = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Lack of enthusiasm
On Thu, Dec 02, 1999, Ilya Konstantinov wrote about "Re: Lack of enthusiasm": What's a member of the ILUG basically? One who's reading the mailing list. Now, who without very much interest, whiling (able) to help other people and having efficient mail sorting system (IMAP + exim filters on server, in my case) would flood his/her mailbox off with our mailing list? I remember myself subscribing the list about a year and a half ago (when I had much less experience), using POP3 mail, and then unsubscribing just as fast. I have to admit the exact same experience happened to me - several years ago, when I didn't have a mail filtering program, I subscribed to linux-il, and quickly unsubscribed from it when it overwhelmed my mailbox (and, admittingly, many of the messages did not interest me directly). Only a few months ago, when I wanted to start the Ivrix project, and already had a mail filtering system in place (procmail+rblcheck+many lines of code and configuration I wrote), I subscribed again to the mailing list. Currently, about 30% of the email I get comes from linux-il (paralleled only by the amount of mail I get from bugtraq), but I don't mind because it all automatically goes into a seperate folder. But most people don't write 800 lines of configuration code for a mail filtering system, or have any filtering system at all, for that matter. Perhaps in order to get a broader audience linux-il should move to a newsgroup, like israel.comp.os.linux, israel.ilug, or whatever ? Such a move also has it's downsides, such as less feeling of "membership", but this downside is also a bonus of people who want to hear about Linux without committing themselves to daily bomardment of email, some of it about ancient castles for sale :) [as Monty Python say] And now for something completely different: I was at Infotech today, and attended some of the Linux sessions, and it was clear that one of the biggest stumbling blocks in the way of Linux success in Israel (beside the obvious ones that apply also in the US, like lack of drivers and applications) is the lack of Hebrew support. This is also the biggest complaint I hear from MS-Windows users, together with the difficulty of installation (I still didn't try to install Redhat 6.1 - did they improve anything in that respect?). To allow Linux to become popular in Israel, we need a "hebrew-enabled" distribution, much like Microsoft's Hebrew-Enabled Windows, or maybe a Hebrew-Enabling patch set that works for various distributions (Redhat, Debian, etc.), so that we don't get "locked" on to one distribution. As most of you probably already know, I wanted to improve the Hebrew situation by starting the Ivrix project (www.ivrix.org.il). People are very interested in the project (about 80 people registered as members), but so far we (as a group) haven't done much except talk (we have 3 mailing lists especially for that), and lately even the talk has been rare. Some people (like Dov Grobgeld, for example) are still actively developing real Hebrew support code, and some have good ideas (like adding logical-hebrew support to Mozilla), but still development is very slow and its organization is almost nonexistant - which is why I thought a project like Ivrix was needed. I would value very much any comments on how the Ivrix hebrew-enabling project should be pushed forward - please direct them to this list, to me, or to the ivrix-discuss mailing list. And a plea: if any of you out there have free time and were considering programming free software - please consider the area of Hebrew support for existing libraries, applications, and so on. This will have an enormous impact on the Israeli Linux community, and will make you a local Linux guru :) Remember - Linux will *never* succeed in Israel without good Hebrew support! -- Nadav Har'El| Friday, Dec 3 1999, 24 Kislev 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I am logged in, therefore I am. http://nadav.harel.org.il | = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: [BUGTRAQ] Big problem on 2.0.x?]
On Fri, Dec 10, 1999, Omer wrote about "[Fwd: [BUGTRAQ] Big problem on 2.0.x?]": This was posted to BugTraq today, and it seemed important enough to pass on (even though if you are a sysadmin and do not regularly read BT, you might deserve what you get). It's what I'd call a HUGE problem, not merely a big problem (unless of course you have no local users). In any case, I'd chmod u-s /bin/ping immediatly, and be careful not to ping as root (if you're not sure you're up to it, better make it chmod 000 /bin/ping :) .. I think that under most setups this is not such a "HUGE" problem. This is indeed a big problem for a site with hundreds of curious shell users, which like to try out if this indeed reboots the machine (remember the Pentium lockup bug?). On machines used personally or as web servers, all this bug means is that if someone can break into a regular account on your server, then they reboot your machine, causing what is known as a DoS, a Denial-of-Service attack because they can repeatedly reboot your machine. DoS attacks can a big problem for some sites (e-commerce sites, or fbi.gov) but much less to most sites, or to your home PC. A much scarier scenario, in my opinion, is that the intruder gains superuser access (through bugs and loopholes in your system), or even worse: if someone can break into your machine remotely, without even having to break into an account on your machine (e.g., by using a bug in your FTP server, perhaps). Both these types of attacks are common, are announced frequently on bugtraq, and I've personally seen them happen twice (most sysadmins simply are unaware that their machines have been broken into), and caught (in time) an attempt to break into my home Linux machine connected through PPP (!). Now these are HUGE problems. -- Nadav Har'El|Friday, Dec 10 1999, 2 Tevet 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cats know what we feel. They don't care, http://nadav.harel.org.il |but they know. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrote hebrew general FAQ
On Sun, Dec 12, 1999, Ely Levy wrote about "Re: wrote hebrew general FAQ": not true we have here both emacs and vi writing and reading documants in hebrew and even have limited printing option (soon to come our hebrew page;) Ely Levy On Sun, 12 Dec 1999, Nadav Har'El wrote: ... | Right now, postscript (or pdf) files are the only portable way we have | of seeing Hebrew documents. Of course, it's only for seeing documents, not | editing them, but it's an important first step. Look again at what you wrote: "we have HERE both emacs and vi...". Is this what you call PORTABLE? If you send your output to some Joe running out-of- the-box Redhat distribution, do you think he'll be able to view them? Telling him to "get this-and-that software, run xterm -fn heb8x13, click M-x show-me-this-file-in-Hebrew in emacs..." is a chicken and egg problem if your document is an introduction to Linux :) So, until we have an out-of-the-box Hebrew distribution (this is what Ivrix hopes to be), if you want your documents to be viewable by *anybody*, you'll need to pick a format like Postscript or PDF that is viewable by *anybody*. Of course, it doesn't matter how you create these files: I'll use Hebrew Latex 2.09, You'll use MS-Word, or whatever, until one program is good enough to get the attention of all Hebrew writers. Of course, it's always best to have your documents in multiple formats, and let your users choose. The US DOJ keeps the (interim) judgement against MS on their site in Word-Perfect format - I wonder why not MS-Word :) -- Nadav Har'El|Sunday, Dec 12 1999, 4 Tevet 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |May you live as long as you want - and http://nadav.harel.org.il |never want as long as you live. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IGLU@eGroups (was: is there newsgroup for linux-il ?)
On Sat, Jan 08, 2000, Ilya Konstantinov wrote about "Re: IGLU@eGroups (was: is there newsgroup for linux-il ?)": Ira Abramov wrote: * spam protected web archives A list of Linux gurus, and nobody jumps to implement it? I mean, what is it all about? hiding of e-mail? a web interface to shoot an email message? Last November I suggested that *all* emails in the mailing list archive are changed to something like "email@hidden". I was dismissed, saying that there are better methods (like turning emails into calls to a CGI which translates a strange number into your email and sends you a message) and that my method removes all emails from a message, not only the sender's, and that people can't answer the sender. Since nobody implemented any "better" method, how about implemeneting the very simple method I suggested (only for the archives, not for the list itself which will still have emails in it): sed 's/[a-zA-Z0-9_.-]*\@[a-zA-Z0-9_.-]*[a-zA-Z0-9_-]/email@hidden/g' in out However, protecting the archive isn't enough for protecting the list members: Spammers can register to mailing lists, get all the email from the list and harvest the emails in them. It's trivial to do :( Then it wouldn't even help removing the emails from the archive. The best approach would be to have a good filter using words in the message and blacklists: I'm so pleased with my filters that I stopped caring whether my email address gets harvested - less than 1% of the spam gets through them. I even post to usenet with my real address :) By the way, spammers can easily find addresses of mailing lists, and once they find one they can write a robot that, in 5 minutes, subscribes to a mailing list from a throw-away or fake account, post their spam - and repeat that for 10,000 mailing lists. I haven't seen this happening yet, but there HAVE been mailing-list bomb attacks: where someone registers another person to 1,000 mailing lists, and watch his server crash when all these mailing lists start sending in stuff... I don't see how we can protect ourselves against that :( * better return time of messages from the list (Listar shortened majordomo's response time from hours to minutes, Egroups takes usually only seconds) Now, why that happens? Is Ely's server too overloaded? How come the US-located (I guess) Egroups would have superior delivery time than ours? Egroups is probably overloaded while we can always set up a box nearly dedicated. Majordomo's and Sendmail's default setup does not multithread when sending messages, so the default setup doesn't take seconds to deliver everything. But it rarely takes more than a few minutes to deliver everything, as far as I noticed, so I don't see what the problem is. This mailing list isn't for real-time chat. -- Nadav Har'El| Saturday, Jan 8 2000, 2 Shevat 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I have an open mind - it's just closed http://nadav.harel.org.il |for repairs. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Y2K bug in hdate and hcal
On Sun, Jan 09, 2000, Kenneth G.Kay wrote about "Y2K bug in hdate and hcal": Since my previous message on this subject did not elicit any responses, I will try again. hcal and hdate are Unix utilities for converting between Gregorian and Hebrew dates. "Distribution 5" (July 1992) of these programs worked well on Linux until Jan. 1 but now give the wrong dates (e.g., it tells me that today is 10 Shvat 3860). I have seen a more recent version (dated 1995), compiled for AIX, that is not infected by this bug. Does anyone know where I can find updated, bug-free sources for these programs so that I can compile them for Linux? Ken You can also take a look at ftp://ftp.math.technion.ac.il/calendar/gauss The program there, 'taarich' uses a different algorithm, and gives correct results - see my signature below for an example. I've verified that the hdate I have (also available in the above ftp site) indeed gives the incorrect results you described. -- Nadav Har'El|Sunday, Jan 9 2000, 2 Shevat 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cats aren't clean, they're just covered http://nadav.harel.org.il |with cat spit. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux Demo Day 17.2
On Mon, Jan 10, 2000, Chen Shapira wrote about "RE: Linux Demo Day 17.2": I'm afraid they would find a way to get us arrested! nope, and it's been done before... here's one such "tea party" I attended in person: http://www.scso.com/linux/tea-party-1998/ (your choice of PNG or the cursed monopolitic GIF format :) Actually it would be *better* to get arrested. Just think of the press: "Programmers get arrested for handing our free CD's" I hope you're joking... As much as I am a Linux fanatic, and a preacher of operating-system pluralism, it is *not* the time yet to take such actions against Microsoft. "direct action" and civil disobedience are not the way to fight companies like Microsoft - Microsoft is not evil *enough* yet, and is not (at least yet) doing direct harm to people (to other companies, maybe). If you're looking for reasons to get arrested for, I can point you to several grave injustices in Israel that need such actions more - but that's another subject altogether :) If you ask me, I think we (linux fans) should not be demonstration outside Microsoft conferences. What would you think if MS fans demonstrated outside Linux conferences? It's much better for us to try to explain to our friends collegue and people in positions of influence why Linux is better, instead of going to Microsoft conferences and trying to convert MS users. The former is pluralism, the latter is more like the Spanish Inquisition. -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jan 10 2000, 4 Shevat 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |The 3 stages of sex: Tri-weekly, try http://nadav.harel.org.il |weekly, try weakly. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux Demo Day 17.2
On Mon, Jan 10, 2000, Ira Abramov wrote about "Re: Linux Demo Day 17.2": On Mon, 10 Jan 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote: Actually it would be *better* to get arrested. Just think of the press: "Programmers get arrested for handing our free CD's" I hope you're joking... As much as I am a Linux fanatic, and a preacher of operating-system pluralism, it is *not* the time yet to take such actions against Microsoft. "direct action" and civil disobedience are not who talked about violance? I said "come with folding tables and laptops" not as tools for hitting people, but as a demo corner to show them hat they won't see inside, and give away free CDs. If the police tells you to go away, and you don't, but rather wait to be arrested for the photographers to see, there'll be violence... Of course there shouldn't be any reason for the police to want to arrest you in the first place - I wasn't the one who brought up the idea to get arrested! To be on the safe side, you can even ask for a demonstration permit (but maybe if it's small enough you won't need one). Coming with CDs in your hand isn't much different than coming to a demonstration with signs in your hand. instead of going to Microsoft conferences and trying to convert MS users. The former is pluralism, the latter is more like the Spanish Inquisition. WOAH! I didn't expect the Spanish inquisition! Yes, "nobody expects the spanish inquisition" :) -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jan 10 2000, 4 Shevat 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Sign seen in restaurant: We Reserve The http://nadav.harel.org.il |Right To Serve Refuse To Anyone! = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [iglu] Re: The Unified Resource Locator Plan
On Thu, Jan 20, 2000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote about "Re: [iglu] Re: The Unified Resource Locator Plan": Ira Abramov wrote: I actually just donated a big bunch of linux CDs (old distros as well as Mandrake 7) to my University's library... not a bad idea either. Mine just ended up as celing decorations. :-) With blank writable CDs costing around 7 shekels, and CD writers common, *PLEASE* don't try to "donate" old Linux distributions. It's much like giving away the rotten food in your refrigerator to the poor... They won't be able to enjoy it, and you've done no good to anyone. When a Linux newbie gets an old distribution, installs it only to find that it doesn't support his "new" video card (which is supported in the latest distribution), and doesn't have the programs he expects (mp3 player, star office, or who knows what) - *he* will make your linux CD into a car decoration, and will not go near Linux for 5 years!! :( In giving away old Linux distributions you're only doing a bad service to Linux publicity! If you want to do a friend a favor, copy him a new Linux CD (e.g., Mandrake 7, or even Redhat 6.1). Or, if you don't have one yourself, and order from cheapbytes (or something like it), order more than you'll need, and give the rest (or sell them cheaply) to friends. When I wanted Redhat 6.1 for myself, I ordered 4 copies from cheapbytes (when dividing also the shipping, each cost 20 shekels), and the day they arrived I had 6 orders from friends, so I had to make more copies. I also have an old copy of Redhat 6.0 (and an original Redhat 5.2, and an old Slackware on diskettes(!)), but I would never give them to my friends, maybe to a museum :) -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Jan 20 2000, 13 Shevat 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Earth First! We can strip-mine the other http://nadav.harel.org.il |planets later... = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [iglu] Double posting to iglu and linux-il?
On Sun, Jan 30, 2000, Ira Abramov wrote about "Re: [iglu] Double posting to iglu and linux-il?": the only double-post in the last 3-4 days was the above question. IGLU is defining itself as it goes along. Hopefully it is becoming the home for the LUG activities, activism, active support and newbie (active) help. linux-il will stay linux-il: the too-generally named list for professional Linux power-users, sysadmins and programmers, discussing the least trivial questions without the pro/newbie ratio it "sufferes" from today. This is how I offered it several times in the last week on the list and so far won the agreemant of the audiance by recieving no objections at all (nor agreeing voices either, mind you...) Did you think that maybe most people didn't even bother to send you their objections? How many people are on linux-il - 500? (I'm just guessing - it would be nice to get an official figure!) How many people wanted a new mailing list - 5? I think that a new mailing list will only cause more confusion, *much* double posting, and having to read both, which is why I don't like the idea. That is unless they have *really* different agenda - but in that case you're running a big risk that most people will read only one: if you have a mailing list with only Linux-activisim, who would want to read it? if you have a mailing list specifically for newbies it's nice - but don't expect experienced people to join it. This is IGLU and that's what we hope to make it. Anyone asking about basic kernel compile woes, tcpd and qpopper questions, wu-ftpd config and ipppd, go to IGLU. If you have questions about programming sockets in perl, flying pigs' kernel drivers and hacking on Fribidi GtK widgets, linux-il is the place to roam. I'm sorry - I didn't understand the difference at all (qpopper=IGLU, perl= LINUX-IL?), and I'm sure many people won't either - causing a high number of crossposts (or worse: some threads will appear only on one of the mailing lists). We hope thus to help everyone, and help maintain the flow of mail. I don't know about others here, but some of us don't read mail on saturday (religious reasons, a very romantic weekend with the SO in the snow, or just hate checking the work Email account on weekends), and opening the linux-il folder on sunday to find ~40 messages waiting is kinda frustrating :-) There are only 2 ways to fix that, as I said previously: 1. procmail, 2. making a newsgroup. When you have procmail, and have a seperate linux-il folder, I couldn't care less if there were 200 messages in linux-il. It's not like the world is going to end if I don't read them all - I just skim through them looking for interesting threads! Splitting the group won't do any good in that respect - someone who wants to read both will still get all these messages, and even more, and now will have to skim through duplicate messages :) -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Jan 30 2000, 24 Shevat 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |"God is dead." - Nietzsche; "Nietzsche http://nadav.harel.org.il |is dead" - God = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reinventing the wheel (Re: Hebrew Editor)
On Mon, Mar 13, 2000, Ilya Khayutin wrote about "Re: Reinventing the wheel (Re: Hebrew Editor)": I was working a little bit on the topic (the gtk+ coders the gimp ones put where really interested to make internalization and I was the only guy from Israel at hand, so they volunteered me), if somebody will provide more help in this, so we can really go to the coding phase, this will be great. I suggest you also tell this to the people in the ivrix-discuss mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED] - see http://ivrix.org.il for mailing-list registration instructions). Ivrix's goal is to have a free Linux distribution with a complete Hebrew support, and we can use all the help we can get (especially from people who do coding, or from people who know how to push other people to help them :)) -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Mar 13 2000, 6 Adar II 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I put a dollar in one of those change http://nadav.harel.org.il |machines. Nothing changed. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: hebrew word processor
On Sat, Mar 18, 2000, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote about "Re: hebrew word processor": Congratulations of your first version Matan, Just a small Note - Intel has registered Timna name - for one of their newer processors which is being developed right now.., so I guess you don't want problems with Intel FYI Not to mention www.timna.com, making some sort of septic tanks, tractors, and other weird stuff :) I guess that every pronouncable word of up to 10 letters you can think of is already taken :( -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Mar 19 2000, 12 Adar II 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |This '|' is not a pipe. http://nadav.harel.org.il | = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (no subject)
On Mon, Apr 03, 2000, Adi Stav wrote about "Re: (no subject)": On Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 12:46:49PM -0400, Webmaster; IT3 Weaver wrote: Hi, my name is Dan Weaver, I'm a sailor on the USS Dwight D Eisenhower. I run apache web server on a Mandrake 7 box and was wondering if you are having any kind of meeting around the 14th of this month. We'll be in Haifa then for a port visit. I'm afraid we don't have any meeting planned in Haifa in the 14th... There are two meetings in Haifa planned for the 9th or the 11th, though. I'm not sure what parts of them might be in English. We do have a meeting which we might hold in the 14th, but it is not final yet, and will probably take place in some place other than Haifa. It is going to be mostly about developing Hebrew and bidirectionality support in Linux. I'm coming from Haifa on the 14th, so I'll be able to pick you up. It will be about Hebrew support in Linux, so I'm not sure it will be of interest to you - and there is the problem that the meeting will most likely be in Hebrew (I don't mind speaking in English, but I bet that everyone would prefer if we had it in Hebrew). If you want a ride anyway, please write me a private email. Nadav. -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Apr 3 2000, 27 Adar II 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I am logged in, therefore I am. http://nadav.harel.org.il | = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux related activities in Nazareth area
On Wed, Apr 12, 2000, Chen Shapira wrote about "RE: Linux related activities in Nazareth area": Its a great idea, though not everybody can get there =) And its not easy to get a tremp there. Well, since most of IGLU is in Tel-aviv/Jerusalem rides should be pretty easy. Also you can use EGGED on friday afternoon and saturday night. There may also be buses even during the Saturday, operated by companies from Nazeret, but you'll have to check this out to be sure. Of course, this also means that religous people won't be able to join us, but I don't see what the alternative is (I doubt anybody will want to do such a day on a working day). Also - why don't we rent a bus? if lots of people join in, it won't cost more than Egged. (Maybe one of the nice companies will fund the bus in exchange to all of us wearing their t-shirts for the weekend? :-) Rent a bus from where? Tel-Aviv? May be useful to some, but not of much use to people from other areas, especially the north. Is there really so few people on this group with cars? All it takes is for 1/5 of us to have cars so that we can pick everyone up (except, of course, people whole live in far-away areas with nobody else living close to them, but such a person can take a bus to somewhere central, e.g., Tel-Aviv and be picked up from there). -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Apr 12 2000, 7 Nisan 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above http://nadav.harel.org.il |are not my own. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Future Linux-il activities
On Sun, May 07, 2000, Gaal Yahas wrote about "Re: Future Linux-il activities": On Sun, May 07, 2000 at 05:16:31PM +0200, Chen Shapira wrote: Other than that - I'm now moving my energies and activities to a new list I just opened: hackers-il. ... Couldn't find it on eGroups yet. Ahem? It appears that you have to be a hacker to use egroups :) For some reason egroups' search doesn't find hackers-il (it doesn't seem to find iglu too!!), but the magic URL http://www.egroups.com/group/hackers-il works. Happy hacking :) -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, May 7 2000, 3 Iyyar 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |It is better to be thought a fool, then http://nadav.harel.org.il |to open your mouth and remove all doubt. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Motif is now Open Source
On Wed, May 17, 2000, Chen Shapira wrote about "RE: Motif is now Open Source": Take a look at http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/ No it isn't. http://www.linuxprogramming.com/news/news_story.php3?ltsn=2000-05-17-001-03- CD The source is avaliable only for "free software" platform, this doesn't conform to the open source definition - so it isn't open source. It doesn't conform to the "open source" definition of opensource.org, but you can't argue that now you can get the source freely on your Linux machine - previously you couldn't. In fact, on non-free OS's you always had Motif on it because the distributers of these UNIX OSs bought motif licenses. So I don't think it's fair to judge their new license scheme. The Open Group claim that the current free-os-only license is only temporary, and that they are hoping to change it to a "real" open source one soon. Besides - motif sucks. Look, Motif has its share of problems: it's very difficult to program (with the standard Xt-like functions in C), Motif 1.2 lacked a few important widgets (but 2.1 should not, I think). It's (actually Xt's) object-orientation-like is a bit annoying. But all in all, it's not *that* bad. I've done some nice things with it, and though there are toolkits I like better (my favorite being Tcl/Tk), it deserves it's credit. There are several important applications using Motif, like DDD and Netscape (which converted to GTK only because a free motif did not exist. The free-os is a non-issue here too, because commercial os's have motif share libraries anyway). -- Nadav Har'El|Wednesday, May 17 2000, 12 Iyyar 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cats aren't clean, they're just covered http://nadav.harel.org.il |with cat spit. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: KRUD
On Fri, May 19, 2000, Eli Marmor wrote about "KRUD": Does anybody have any experience with this distro? Is it better/safer to install and use the latest version of it in comparison with the original RH6.2? I don't know this distribution. Can you give us a reference? Krud.com and Krud.org are not Linux distributions. Or is this a code name of one of Redhat's distributions (in which case, where do I find it?) ? Anyway, I couldn't resist making fun of the name of this distribution. From Merriam-Webster's online dictionary (www.m-w.com): Main Entry: crud Function: noun 2 a : a deposit or incrustation of filth, grease, or refuse b : something disagreeable or disgusting : RUBBISH c slang : a despicable or contemptible person Yes, this was a wisely-chosen name for a distribution :) -- Nadav Har'El| Friday, May 19 2000, 14 Iyyar 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Can Microsoft make a product that http://nadav.harel.org.il |doesn't suck? Yes, a vacuum cleaner! = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Needed: new cellcom SMS script
On Sun, May 21, 2000, Alon Altman wrote about "Needed: new cellcom SMS script":
Hi,
A cellcom script written by Nadav Har'el has been posted here some time
ago. Recently (today), cellcom has reformed their site, and the script no
longer works.
It would be nice if an updated script will be posted here.
Thanks,
Alon
Ok. Exactly 12 hours after Cellcom switched sites, I'm attaching the new
sendsms script which can send short messages to cellcom phones (using the
new site) and Orange (using their official site, not gosms.com, currently,
although I also have a version using gosms.com). Needless to say, sending
messages in this way is free, and you don't have to be a client of these
companies.
Don't forget to read the Installation Instructions inside the perl script.
The script will not work if you don't follow these instructions!
BTW, for users of the previous scripts I released, note the following points:
1. Newlines in messages to cellcom no longer worked correctly (they never
worked in Orange). Unless Cellcom cooperates, it appears it will never
work.
2. If you used Cellcom's old site and have a username and password, please
try sending one message from their new site (isend.cellcom.co.il) before
using the script, to see that it works. Note that instead of your "user
name", you'll have to use your full email now (the same email you gave
cellcom when you originally registered). The password remains the same.
Cellcom will show you a new license - read it.
Note, though, that if your password had weird punctuations in it, you
won't be able to enter it into the new site, because of their weird
Javascript! In this case, just try to use my script immediately. I think
it should work, even if you never do get to read that new license.
Have fun, and send any ideas or patches (particularly a patch to add pelephon
support!) to me.
Nadav.
--
Nadav Har'El| Sunday, May 21 2000, 17 Iyyar 5760
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |There are 2 ways to do it - my way and
http://nadav.harel.org.il |the right way
-- Attached file included as plaintext by Listar --
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
##
# SMS sending script for Cellcom and Orange Israeli cellular phones
##
#
#Copyright (C) 1999-2000 Nadav Har'El
#License: GNU GPL
#
##
#
#Installation instructions: (don't forget to read this part!)
#
#1. You'll have to install the following perl libraries first
#Digest-MD5-2.09.tar.gz MIME-Base64-2.11.tar.gz libnet-1.0606.tar.gz
#HTML-Parser-2.23.tar.gz URI-1.04.tar.gz libwww-perl-5.44.tar.gz
# (the version numbers are the ones I have - later versions should be ok)
# Get them from www.cpan.org, if you don't have them.
# Change the "BEGIN" line below to list the directory where you installed
# these libraries (or remove that line altogether if you installed them
# in the system's official Perl directory).
#
#2. You'll need accounts from cellcom and/or orange to send SMSs. These
# are free, and have nothing to do with you having a cellular phone from
# them or not. Register on the following sites:
# Cellcom:http://isend.cellcom.co.il/English/Registration.htm
# Orange: http://www.orange.co.il/orange_online/free_sms/scripts/reg.asp
#
#3. Set the CELLCOMTEXT_USER, CELLCOMTEXT_PASSWORD, ORANGETEXT_USER and
# ORANGETEXT_PASSWORD below. If you do not do that for a particular company
# (Cellcom or Orange), you won't be able to send SMSs to numbers in that
# company.
#
##
#TODO: convert this to object oriented, with different classes for different
# companies with the same interface (use interitance).
require 5.004;
BEGIN {push @INC, ("/home/nyh/sendsms/lib/perl5/site_perl")}
use strict;
use Carp;
use LWP::UserAgent;
use URI::Escape;
use HTTP::Cookies; # Orange uses cookies;
#
### User-specific information: TODO: this information should be got from
### a user configuration file.
#DON'T FORGET TO CONFIGURE THIS! (see instructions above)
my $CELLCOMTEXT_USER='[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; my $CELLCOMTEXT_PASSWORD='pAsswOrd';
my $ORANGETEXT_USER='you'; my $ORANGETEXT_PASSWORD='pAsswOrd';
#
if($#ARGV+1 != 3){
print STDERR "Usage: $0 phonenum sender message\n";
exit 1;
}
my $phonenum=$ARGV[0];
# remove optional spaces, parantheses, or hyphens from phone number
$phonenum =~ s/[ ()-]//go;
my $sender=$ARGV[1];
my $
Re: Needed: new cellcom SMS script
On Mon, May 22, 2000, Ira Abramov wrote about "Re: Needed: new cellcom SMS script":
On Sun, 21 May 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:
looks great! although my hack dumps all the communication headache at
wget, since it was always meant to be a quick throwaway, but yours is a
masterpiece :-)
I seems everybody wants to convert this script to use lynx, wget, or another
utility :)
Initially, my script was written in shell, using wget. But this was a dead-end:
It was too hard to do proper error checking (cellcom's old site had the
tendency to fail around 10% of the time, and a simple retry would work), and
too hard to get all the cookie stuff needed for Orange's site to work. Perhaps
I could have made it work, using curl, or another program, but it was too much
effort, and I started to feel the need for a real programming language, with
a real API for HTTP.
This is why I made the Perl version.
BTW, if I remember correctly, all the modules I mention are needed for
libwww-perl to work. It's a nice package, so it is worth the extra install
trouble (if you don't already have it installed).
I'll incorporate Lingua::En::Squeeze into it, with your permission, and
wrap it into a Qmail alias (so it does email-to-SMS), and send it back.
:)
only one bugfix:
242c242
} elsif($phonenum =~ m/^05[45][0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]/){
---
} elsif($phonenum =~ m/^054[0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]/){
Yes, of course... I guess I'm a little behind the times :)
P.S. what's missing from my sendsms script now is a queuing system, like
sendmail's: it needs to be able to queue messages when the connection to
the Cellcom or Orange site is down, or when too many connections to these
sites are already open, and then later send the queued messages. If anybody
is looking for a nice programming project...
--
Nadav Har'El| Monday, May 22 2000, 17 Iyyar 5760
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
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http://nadav.harel.org.il |you a sleeping pill.
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Re: Needed: new cellcom SMS script
On Mon, May 22, 2000, Udi Finkelstein wrote about "Re: Needed: new cellcom SMS script": Pelephone support is easy. Just use Pelemail using [EMAIL PROTECTED] for 051-xx numbers (correct me if I'm wrong), and [EMAIL PROTECTED] for 050-xx numbers. You, and several other people, said, correctly that it is possible to send messages to pelephone on their web site, or via the aforementioned mail gateway. However, because I don't (no longer, actually) have a pelephone, and nobody around me has one (Pelephone marketing - if you hear me - this is a bad sign for you...), I cannot check any Pelephone support I add to the script. I don't want to add something buggy that wasn't tested, so if someone can write a Pelephone part for the script, test it and send it to the list, it would be nice. Maybe it could be as simple as 'system mail ', or more complicated (but also more anonymous) using the web script. I think that even though seperate pelephone support is very easy with that mail interface, it would still be nice to have a single script that works for all cellphone companies. -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, May 22 2000, 18 Iyyar 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I would give my right arm to be http://nadav.harel.org.il |ambidextrous. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Needed: new cellcom SMS script
On Tue, May 23, 2000, Vadim Vygonets wrote about "Re: Needed: new cellcom SMS script": I think it would be better to use the mailer daemon's own queueing system for this purpose. If it's possible. I'll see what I can do about it. Hmm... I wonder if it is possible to tell sendmail of a new mail transport mechanism, on the same level as SMTP, that uses my script or something similar to send messages via SMS. For example, we can have all messages to addresses like [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 97252123456@sms directed to this transport mechanism. Then sendmail's queueing system will take a message off the queue, and attempt to send it. Just like in the case of the normal SMTP, if the sending of the message failed, it will requeue the message for later. Does anybody know how to pull this kind of thing off? Note that I'm NOT talking about having some sort of alias on my machine, say [EMAIL PROTECTED], that gateways messages to the SMS sending web pages: this is trivial to do with my script. The queueing system is a much more important feature and a completely different feat to implement. P.S. The mail system will have to use the sender's (a local user, of course) SMS sending username/password for sending these SMSs. These can be kept on a local file, like ~/.sms-accounts. If the file is non-existant, or missing an account needed for a specific SMS provider, or the provider refuses the user's account, then a MAILER-DAEMON message will be returned to the user saying what the error was. This idea is getting more and more interesting by the moment :) I wonder if nobody ever did such a thing - after all, SMS is not an Israeli- specific thing! -- Nadav Har'El| Thursday, May 25 2000, 21 Iyyar 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Help Wanted: Telepath. You know where to http://nadav.harel.org.il |apply. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi built into Java at last?
On Mon, May 29, 2000, Ira Abramov wrote about "BiDi built into Java at last?": this was just forwarded to me from Amos Shapira about an event in the approaching JavaOne. please forward to Ivrix if it's any news (well, it was for ME) the URL talks about a session which talks about Hebrew and Arabic support in the next version of J2SE (Java 2 Standard Edition) - ... It's not new, but interesting nontheless. Take a look also at http://www.m17n.org/mule/m17n2000/proceedings/felt/index.htm It's a presentation given by IBM in the last Multilingual Information Processing symposium in Japan, about "Arabic, Hebrew, Hindi and Thai Support in IBM's Java 2". The demo they showed seemed like they have a very complete Hebrew solution, with text widget, selection, and everything you could ask for. Very interesting. -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, May 29 2000, 24 Iyyar 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |How long a minute depends on what side http://nadav.harel.org.il |of the bathroom door you're on. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux-related jobs in Radware
The company I work for, Radware, is looking for more employees for Linux- related jobs in its new Haifa Research and Development Center. Openings are for full-time positions, but part-time employment of last-year students will also be considered. Radware (www.radware.com) is the maker of a wide array of award-winning load- balancing solutions for today's and tomorrow's big and medium Internet sites: * server farms with transparent load balancing of multiple web servers. * web servers in several locations in the world serving the same site. * load-balancing of multiple firewalls. * multiple transparent caching proxies. * easy solutions for connections to multiple ISPs. Radware is a fast growing young company, still small but already traded on the NASDAQ stock market and showing a very high promise (constantly being rated "Strong Buy" by analysts). Radware is based in Tel-Aviv (Kiryat Atidim), with offices in the U.S. and several other countries, and a new RD center in Haifa. For our new line of Linux-based Internet solutions, we are looking for people who would like to do some exciting programming on Linux machines, web-server (Apache) hacking, TCP/IP, and more, and to work with some of the leading people in this area. Our projects also provide an opportunity to learn and master exciting and cutting-edge Internet technologies. Applicants should have a degree in a relevant area (or be last-year students), and should have programming experience, some basic knowledge of Linux (or another Unix variant), and an urge to learn more about Linux and Internet technologies and applications. Being an experienced Linux programmer or "hacker" is NOT a requirement. Team work and dedication is required, and will be generously rewarded. Our new Haifa center is located to the North-East of Haifa (a mere 3 minute drive from the Technion), so it is very easily accessible from Haifa, the Krayot, and the rest of the Northern area. If you're interested, please contact me privately ([EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]). Inquiries will be kept in strict confidence. Nadav. P.S. Radware also has job openings in Tel-Aviv, and non-Linux job openings. If you're interested, please email me in private and I'll redirect you to the appropriate people. -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Jul 19 2000, 17 Tammuz 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I started out with nothing... I still http://nadav.harel.org.il |have most of it. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Really? no cabal?
On Sun, Jul 23, 2000, Yossi Cohen wrote about "Really? no cabal?": You people were sure eager to deny a IGLU cabal. Way too eager...I think something is fishy here. Who is really in chagre? Come on, I've head from a good friend of mine that thetre is a IGLU canal. Ok, this thread has gone for some time now, but PLEASE, if you plan on continuing, at least do us a favor and explain what the f*** you're talking about? What on earth is a "cabal"? I'm assuming you're not talking about a capacitor :) -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Jul 23 2000, 21 Tammuz 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |If at first you don't succeed, skydiving http://nadav.harel.org.il |is not for you. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C is standartizied - In your dreams!
sor Don't get me started on this. Almost no two compiler has similar preprocessor. Multiple parameters to a macro with the same name? sometimes you have it, sometimes not. and the "#pargma" directive, You usually don't, and it's not in the standard, so don't use it. All those things are just thing I came across during the 10 years or so I am writing in C as a payed professional. If you really want to see it all, go to the metaacutoconfig source. I've programmed in C for 15 years, and have seen it all too :) But considering what has happened in the computer world since, the changes in C are not all that terrible, and I am still running several C programs I wrote 10 years ago. Most of the weird checks in autoconf and the likes have to do not with the C compiler per-se, but rather with libraries and UNIX systems which have *really* changed a lot (just try compiling a curses program from 10 years ago, and see if it works). -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jul 24 2000, 21 Tammuz 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cats know what we feel. They don't care, http://nadav.harel.org.il |but they know. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C is standartizied - In your dreams!
On Mon, Jul 24, 2000, Vadim Vygonets wrote about "Re: "C" is standartizied - In your dreams!": Register is only a recommendation to the compiler, and is a leftover from the times when the optimizer wasn't smart enough to do that on its own. Consider it as a finetuning to the optimizer, and feel free to ignore it. That is correct. Unlike "volatile", which does have a well-defined meaning. Yes, "volatile" is an order to the optimizer, not a recommendation. It tells the optimizer that this could be some "magic" variable, which must be read and written to memory each time, without any shortcuts such as keeping the value in a register. It is used, for example, for variables whose addresses are some special area of memory (e.g., in old DOS you had special addresses through which you can write text to the screen), or variables that might be changed asynchronously by other threads or signals. I've programmed in C for 15 years, and have seen it all too :) To see it all, you don't actually have to program C as a "payed" professional (or, quoting another Uri's mail, FUCKING "expert"). You only need to see _one_ C compiler that runs on Windows, some old pre-ansi C compiler (such as cc on SunOS), some modern enough compiler (like GCC) on a UNIX system, and, preferrably, several different UNIX systems. Of course. Did you hear me pay that I was *payed* for 15 years of programming? I never said that. Most of my programming was for fun :) But considering what has happened in the computer world since, the changes in C are not all that terrible, and I am still running several C programs I wrote 10 years ago. Most of the weird checks in autoconf and the likes have to do not with the C compiler per-se, but rather with libraries and UNIX systems which have *really* changed a lot (just try compiling a curses program from 10 years ago, and see if it works). UNIX libraries did not change a lot. Try to compile a Windows (2.x?) program from 10 years ago... It's all relative, of course, but Unix is not free of almost-impossible-to- port programs. For example, once I was given the job of resurecting some 15 year old program. It was written in Fortran, and I'm not sure that it was even a Unix machine, but the prinples are similar: at that time they had a machine with 6-bit bytes (!), and for the graphics display they had a Tektronics 4014 (does anybody remember these?) taking 8-bit escape sequences (so they had all kind of weird bit masking to convert between the byte sizes). It took me over a week of slaving to port this program to a modern Unix machine with X windows (using xterm's 4014 emulation), and it required me to find antique manuals to find what on earth they were trying to do then. Another example: I have a bunch of programs I wrote for the ATT 5620 and ATT 630 terminals. These were smart terminals - "network computer" in today's lingo - that ATT sold starting about 16 years ago, and had a modern CRT and a mouse and a modem connection, and a CPU onto which you could download programs - a vast improvment over the Tektronics 4014. These programs are are completely useless now, but it's not hopeless if you try very hard: "Sam", the best editor for the ATT 5620, was converted to X Windows and now is Plan 9's official editor. I also wrote (again, in C) graphic programs for a ATT System V release 3 machine using weird iocntrls to control the card. Again, these programs are useless now. So programs which depend on external libraries, special hardware, and so on generally are harder to port after 10 years. But it is possible nontheless. -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jul 24 2000, 22 Tammuz 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I want to be a human being, not a human http://nadav.harel.org.il |doing -- Scatman John = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
joke
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Frank Lofaro) + others I was wondering if there is a good source of info about Linux and security. Preferrably free but I would like to know how to set up accounts and create groups and make sure that my system isn't holy! Use curses, and run lots of daemons. And make sure to have shadow passwords, skeleton accounts, zombie processes and ghostscript too. Also run SATAN, a security testing program (isn't that ironic, makes sure your system isn't either holey or holy! :) Allow hosts of which's. And make sure there are no nice processes. Oh, and don't forget to replace true with false. -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Jul 26 2000, 23 Tammuz 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |If God is watching us, the least we can http://nadav.harel.org.il |do is be entertaining. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: now this is something.
On Thu, Jul 27, 2000, Ben-Nes Michael wrote about "Re: now this is something.": Alex Shnitman wrote: Hi, Ben-Nes! On Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 01:37:10PM +0300, you wrote the following: After 3 years in the list I found after 2 days that I don't receive any messages, i checked and found that im not subscribed. was it maintain failure ? any one else experienced this ? Just checked the Listar messages -- it says that between July 23rd and 24th it received 14 bounces from you saying "we do not relay", so it unsubscribed you. All the replies to the above question seemed to focus on why exactly his messages bounced for two days. But the fact is that it is quite normal for mail hosts to go down (or worse, come up with a bad configuration) for two days. Of course, big companies keep backup servers, redundant network connections, secondary mail exchanges and all kinds of tricks to keep such an embaracing thing from happening but small sites often can't afford it, or don't know how to do it. So the mailing list managers must be less "trigger-happy", and not remove people with bouncing addresses until, say, 2 weeks have passed. Even errors like "user not known" are not "final" - it can simply mean, for example, that the mailserver's disks got trashed, and the OS was reinstalled and brought online but not all backups were brought back (this shouldn't be done, of course, but it nevertheless happens). This is what I do on the mailing lists I run. P.S. from my experience, "we do not relay" bounces usually happen when the machine is down, and a secondary mail-exchange was set up for it without that other machine's administrator being notified of this. For example, a Netvision customer may assume that he can put "mx10.netvision.net.il" as a secondary mail exchange, but this is not true without talking to Netvision's admins first. -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Jul 27 2000, 24 Tammuz 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer http://nadav.harel.org.il |system that can be kicked. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A silly question about GCC
On Wed, Aug 02, 2000, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote about "Re: A silly question about GCC": the kind of string RCS automagically makes for you if you ask it nicely. snip GCC (rightfuly) complains about the string not being used. GCC does offer the __attribute__ ((notused)) attribute, but it's only for fucntions, not variables. Is there any inteligent way to tell it to shut up for that specific variable? (except the obvious way of artifcially using it?) volatile GCC still complains. Any other ideas? You can try one of the following ugly solutions (but maybe someone will come up with a better one). #2 is probably the better solution of the three. 1. Do something with that variable - something idiotic like passing it to a function (e.g., put a "strlen(stringname)" call in a function called only once, or something. You can also assign it to some pointer variable. 2. Don't make the variable static (file-local). When the variable is global C cannot complain about it being unused in the current file, because other files may "extern" and use it! Note that using the solution, the string will also end up in the resulting executable file, and you'll be able to do "ident" or "what" on it, which is probably what you want. Note that if the string is global, you'll need a different name for it for each file. 3. Some C compilers I knew had commands #ident (or something like that, I don't remember) that did exactly what you want, and you didn't even have to worry about the string name (you did something like '#ident "@(#)Hello 1.0"'). Maybe gcc also has it? -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Aug 2 2000, 2 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Unix is simple, but it takes a genius to http://nadav.harel.org.il |understand its simplicity. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid X Q.
On Wed, Aug 09, 2000, Y. Benado wrote about "Re: Stupid X Q.":
From: Ben-Nes Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What is the difference between X11R6 XFree86 ?
X11R6 is Xfree86 Release 6 AFAIK
Not quite...
Sic transit gloria mundi :)
And now for a short history lesson:
"The X Window System", the windowing system we all use on our Linux (and Unix)
machines, was originally designed and written by people at MIT. The first
version they released outside MIT was X10 (X version 10), and that was followed
by the version that would overtake the world, X11. Since then the version "11"
stuck, and newer versions were dubbed "releases". The first X11 release I
worked on (in 1991) was X11R3. Later came X11R4 (with a few major improvements),
X11R5 and X11R6 (with small improvements, as far as I'm concerned), and the
latest release is named X11R6.4patch3.
If you think the convergence of the version numbers is strange (much like
TeX's version 3.14159) you're right. What actually happened is that after
X11R4 MIT stopped working on X11. In the beginning of 1994 the rights of
X11 passed to a new organization "The X Consortium" and by the end of 1996
this organization was disolved and the rights were assigned to "the Open
Software foundation" (which currently also holds the Unix trademark and the
Motif source rights - don't confuse it with the "Free Software Foundation"!).
All these reassignments didn't do X Windows any good, and no major
improvements appeared on X-Windows appeared since 1994 (I'm talking about the
X server, not widget sets or applications, of course).
Anyway, around that time, Unix on PC became popular (first ATT's various
System V Release 4, and Unixware, and then came Linux) and the X11R5 server was
ported for PC ("86") machines (previously, the most common implementation was
on Sun workstations). This started out as a straightforward port, but it got
more and more complicated: as opposed to Sun machines, for example, that
have a fixed and small number of video cards, PCs use numerous video cards
that need supporting, various kinds of mice, displays, and so on. Special
optimization for PCs were added, binary distributions were created, easy
configuration scripts, and so on. All this makes the "XFree86" project.
Nowadays, the original X Windows project is a zombie, and all new development
seems to be coming from the XFree86 people (correct me if I'm wrong), so
people start to get the impression that "X" is a shortcut of "XFree86". But
it isn't :) In fact, the latest releases also support non-"86" machines, so
the assumption XFree86=X will soon become true. I just hope they add anti-
aliased outline font support soon... Other things sorely missing from X Windows
currently is a sound server and a print server that work as normal X clients
(i.e., the X server should not be touched - the ICCCM should be updated to
support these notions and the work would be done by seperate processes). I
once started designing an X Print Server (not like the rather-useless XPrint
extension), and written a very-simplistic sound server, but, alas, I don't
have time to work on it any more :(
By the way, if you're curious, the latest XFree86 release is 4.0.1. So
XFree86 4.0.1 is based on X11R6... A lot of numbers and confusion :)
[I'm writing this from memory. For more authoritative information, take a look
at www.x.org and www.xfree86.org, and 'man XFree86']
--
Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Aug 9 2000, 8 Av 5760
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter
http://nadav.harel.org.il |since nobody listens.
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Re: Stupid X Q.
On Wed, Aug 09, 2000, Ira Abramov wrote about "Re: Stupid X Q.": On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, Y. Benado wrote: What is the difference between X11R6 XFree86 ? X11R6 is Xfree86 Release 6 AFAIK ASCII silly question, get a stupid ANSI. :) X11R6 is the spec, thre protocols, the APIs. xfree86 is an xserver project, an implementation of that standard (viva standards!) if you have an application written for X11 (on Solaris, BSD, Linux, AIX or even windogs) is can connect to any X11 server running on another machine (xfree86, Excede, Starnet Xwin32, MI/X, Xinside, MetroX, Solaris whatever). Several people said roughly the same thing, and I beg to differ. X11 was *not* a standard, spec or protocol per se, it was also complete implementation. It was an implementation with a complete, open and free, specification. In 1994, when I got at work a Sun workstation with crappy X11R3 OpenLook, I took the X11R4 distribution from MIT's ftp site, compiled it (took almost half a day to compile), and got myself a fully working X server. The distribution included the X protocol specification, the Xlib specification, the ICCCM, the Xt Intrinsics, an example Xt widget set (the Athena widgets) but also a complete implementation of the server (for several systems) and many client applications (including xterm, the twm ICCCM-compliant window-manager, and many other basic applications). When MIT's X team was at it's peak, makers of commercial Unix (like Sun, Digital, Hp, etc.) licensed MIT's source, and added their own stuff (mainly straightforward porting to new graphic systems, but also some new features like Sun's NeWS, Display Postscript, and so on. An additional Xt-based widget set, Motif, was also created by third parties, and so was (later) the CDE "standard".) Anyway, as far as I know, X servers for all Unix-flavors are directly based on MIT's original source code. Not only that, but when the X Consortium released X11R6 (after several years of X11R5), the XFree86 team worked hard at reintegrating the new code into their servers. Windows servers like Excede may be completely new code, but I'm not even sure of that. The nice thing about the X Window System is that it's wonderful definition documents (available with any source distribution of X, by the way) outlasted the original MIT X project and now continues to act as a standard. About the same thing is happening to Unix. When was the last time any of you used an ATT-released Unix? Pretty soon people will start saying that Unix is just a standard, and Linux is it's implementation... As I said, Sic transit gloria mundi... -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Aug 9 2000, 9 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I am logged in, therefore I am. http://nadav.harel.org.il | = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)
On Thu, Aug 10, 2000, Ira Abramov wrote about "Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)": On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Udi Finkelstein wrote: Ram - 294Mb 133 Mhz c'mon - 294MB?? It's not even a 32MB multiple. [ira@ax ira]$ echo "294/32"|bc 9 I would guess 2 128M DIMMS and a spare 32 from somewhere, but a valid point on the Athlon with Intel chipset :-) and Tal: if it's not pre-installed with Linux it's off topic :-)) We're getting more and more off-topic by the moment, but I just had to say something about bc (a Linux issue, isn't it?) - Ira, bc's default is to print 0 (yes, that's right, zero) digits after the decimal point runing echo "scale=6; 294/32"|bc will get you the correct answer, 9.187500 Because of bc's annoying limitations and syntax, I usually use my own version of Brian Kernighan's HOC: /home/nyh$ hoc Welcome to the NYH HOC interpreter. Release 9.1.1 (revision 119), Fri Apr 4 16:48:41 IDT 1997. hoc 294/32 9.1875 Someday I'll talk with Kernighan about making my version of HOC free software... Till then, remember bc's 'scale' variable, or use xcalc :) -- Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Aug 10 2000, 9 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A smart man always covers his ass. A http://nadav.harel.org.il |wise man just keeps his pants on. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)
On Thu, Aug 10, 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote about "Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)": software... Till then, remember bc's 'scale' variable, or use xcalc :) Or, perl -e 'print 294/32' Better make that perl -e 'print 294/32,"\n"' (in zsh for example, the prompt hides the partial line if you forget the newline). or python -c 'print 294.0/32' or echo 'puts [expr 294.0/32]' | tclsh (many others snipped) -- Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Aug 10 2000, 9 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |You have the right to remain silent. http://nadav.harel.org.il |Anything you say will be used against you. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)
On Thu, Aug 10, 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote about "Re: You ruled me out as a potential
customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)":
And, of course,
awk 'BEGIN {print 294.0/32}' /dev/null
Or, if you're really bored, try
echo '294 32 div
/Times-Roman findfont 150 scalefont setfont 100 500 moveto 16 string cvs show
showpage' | gv -
(replace "gv -" by lpr if you want the result on paper!)
--
Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Aug 10 2000, 9 Av 5760
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Wear short sleeves! Support your right
http://nadav.harel.org.il |to bare arms!
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Re: [OT] HP-UX and vi
On Sun, Aug 13, 2000, Yaron Zabary wrote about "Re: [OT] HP-UX and vi":
On Sun, 13 Aug 2000, Alexander Indenbaum wrote:
Hello!
I have strange problem with vi under HP-UX.
For example '#' sign could not be typed nor pasted.
What do you think?
Check with stty. Some old SysV use # as del. Just add the appropriate
stty erase command to your .cshrc/.profile .
That ("#" as the erase character) was true around 1980, especially before
CRT terminals were common (they were already common by 1980) :) I've never
seen it anywere in the last decade... But who knows...
Quoting Kernighan Pike's "The Unix Programming Environment" (published in
1984, mind you, before System V was released if I remember correctly), says:
"The sharp character # erases the last character typed; each # erases
one more character, back to the beginning of the line (but not
beyond) The particular erase and line kill characters are very
system dependent. On many systems (including the one we use), the
erase character has been changed to backspace, which works nicely on
video terminals."
Anyway, Alexander, if Yaron's guess turns out incorrect, maybe it would be
easier to answer your question if you can explain what "could not be typed nor
pasted" means. What happens when you type "#"? Does it print anything? Does
it act like a backspace? Does anything else seems to happen? Try running "xev"
and see if the "#" (shift-3? Or do you have a seperate key?) key does anything
at all?
--
Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Aug 13 2000, 12 Av 5760
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Just remember that if the world didn't
http://nadav.harel.org.il |suck, we would all fall off.
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Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
I just did 'whois [EMAIL PROTECTED]' (I know, I should have done it earlier), and it seems that it was last updated on August 13th, and that Ira is listed (as the Zone Contact)! So Ira, what's the problem - what prevents you from making changes to the registration (like changing the DNS)? Or is it that you don't want to do that without JBA agreeing first? -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Aug 14 2000, 13 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy http://nadav.harel.org.il |every minute of it. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Sun, Aug 20, 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote about "Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner": On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Michael M. wrote: shalom you don't care about kosher so it's no important for anyone . right ? Wrong. I care about kosher very much -- I do not eat in kosher restaurants if I have other choices. You don't eat in non-kosher restaurants -- fine. We can organize two dinners...that's up to the organizers to decide. Looks like the start of another annoying flame-war :( Anyway, personally I also don't care about the Kosher-ness of the restaurant, but if it means a few more people will be able to come, than I don't mind if the restaurant will be Kosher. I realise this will give us fewer restaurants to choose from, and potentially we'll end up with a not-the-best-possible restaurant, but if our objective is to meet and have a good time, and not explicitly to have a gourmet dinner, then it's acceptable. That is, of course, unless someone is looking for a specific type of Kashrut, and a restaurant that is not open on Saturday, which can seriously limit the possibilities - maybe someone who cares about Kashrut should suggest a restaurant he or she is comfortable with (but remember the vegiterianism request too!). -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Aug 20 2000, 19 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A messy desk is a sign of a messy mind. http://nadav.harel.org.il |An empty desk is a sign of an empty mind. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: procmail
On Sun, Aug 20, 2000, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote about "Re: procmail": Uri Bruck wrote: Hi, The unfiltered mail goes to whatever is in DEFAULT. So you can just add, on the top of your .procmailrc DEFAULT=/full/path/of/your/inbox Which in your case would be DEFAULT=/home/bar/Mailbox btw. The mail "lost" in the meantime can be found at /var/spool/mail/bar Quoting the "procmailrc" manual, "...The first recipe that matches is used to determine where the mail has to go (usually a file). If processing falls off the end of the rcfile, procmail will deliver the mail to $DEFAULT. You do not need to set this variable, since it already points to the standard system mailbox." So any mail that didn't match your recipe is still in your normal mailbox - read it as you normally do (with mutt, pine, pop3, etc.). You shouldn't set DEFAULT unless you really want your unfiltered mail to go to a different file. -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Aug 20 2000, 19 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |The 3 stages of sex: Tri-weekly, try http://nadav.harel.org.il |weekly, try weakly. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Sun, Aug 20, 2000, joshua kamenetz wrote about "Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner": Why Kosher? How many people will not come if it's not Kosher? It should be Kosher because several people,including me,are religious and are limited to Kosher restaurants. Israel is a democracy and freedom of faith is instituted in this democratic state. A religious Jew _can't_ eat in a non-Kosher place. A non-religious Jew can eat in Kosher restaurant. If the dinner wasn't Kosher, then a fraction of Linux people would be blacked balled from this event which I understand is an official IGLU event. I don't think high words like "democracy" and "freedom of faith" are relevant in this case. You're free to come to a non-kosher dinner, and watch other people eat, or bring your own sandwiches (and plate) from home. Obviously, it wouldn't be *nice* of us to let you do that, which is why we're not going to do it (i.e., the dinner will probably be kosher after all, whether MosheZ likes it or not). We're going to have a Kosher dinner because we care about the religious people in our group and respect them - not because we care about their religion (or the religion varient they choose to practice). But don't act like it's some sort of democratic or freedom-of-faith issue that we have to have Kosher food: try going to any conference in the U.S. (for example). You'll be given food, and they may even try to make it pseudo-kosher (e.g., serve beef, not pork, don't put cream on the beef, make vegetables and other stuff that don't have such strict kashrut code, etc.), but you won't get a glat-kosher meal. They will outright laugh if you request to eat only in a place which is closed on Saturday. But they will give you the option to eat somewhere else, bring your own food, or eat nothing at all. Some orthodox Jews do not drink wine if it was served by a gentile (goy). But it doesn't mean they have the right to force the restaurant to employ a Jewish wine-server. At the most, they can decide not to drink wine if served by a gentile. Freedom of faith is the freedom to practice your own faith without being disturbed or persecuted. It is not the freedom to force your own faith on others, or the freedom to say that "my faith requires me to make others behave like me". -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Aug 20 2000, 20 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A professor is one who talks in someone http://nadav.harel.org.il |else's sleep. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Tue, Aug 22, 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about "Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner": On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Schlomo Schapiro wrote: [snip] PS: Let's everybody show that you are grown up by behaving like adults and respecting the others and finding a compromise that satisfies all (hint: picknick). But we *were* behaving like adults. Now lets fight about the *time* (Shabbat/ not Shabbat) for the picnic. I can already see how this turns into another ugly fight... But YBA has a good point here - if you're talking about a lunch picnic, then we can probably forget the idea - Saturdays are impossible (let's not begin to argue why, and which rabbi said what to whom), Fridays are nearly impossible (because some people are religious *and* need to return to their far-away homes), and weekdays are also nearly impossible (unless your boss sees going to Linux picnics part of your work). So we're left with three options, as far as I can see: 1. Return to the restaurant idea. If everything fails, we can go to the "kafe keilu" in Tel-Aviv (does it still exist?) - I'm sure nobody will find them to violate his/her religious/atheistic/crazy beliefs. 2. Have a "brunch" picnic some Friday morning. BTW, I assume that no religious person will have a problem with seeing other people eating a big ham- sandwich-with-cheese next to him in the open? 3. Have a weekday evening bonfire/barbique/whatever, everybody brings their own kosher food or pork with cheese. (but this is complicated because we need to find a place and wood). People, let's think of ideas on how this can work, not ideas of how to distroy it by disrespecting other people. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Aug 22 2000, 21 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Tea or coffee? Coffee, without cream. It http://nadav.harel.org.il |will be without milk, we have no cream. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: KDE 2 with Hebrew support
On Mon, Sep 11, 2000, Ely Levy wrote about "Re: KDE 2 with Hebrew support": That makes it the time for other happy news The begining of working of hebrew implanted distrabution based on redhat 7.0 and later a localized version of it. and the begining of the translation of the LDP and maybe even the GNU page to hebrew ... Your posting is a bit mysterious :) What do you mean, is it time to work on these things, or that *you* are actually working on this? I hope the latter (myself, I didn't even see Redhat 7.0 yet...). What are your plans to include in the Hebrew distribution? -- Nadav Har'El|Sunday, Sep 10 2000, 11 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Ways to Relieve Stress #10: Make up a http://nadav.harel.org.il |language and ask people for directions. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: KDE 2 with Hebrew support
On Mon, Sep 11, 2000, Ely Levy wrote about "Re: KDE 2 with Hebrew support": my posting is always mystrious here is a hacked spec made by Ilya and few things added by me Looking for suggestions I bet nadav would give up a page on ivrix to put it right? Sure. Anyone who wants to take care of parts of ftp.ivrix.org.il repository or www.ivrix.org.il webpages, please contact me privately and I'll give you an account. Good luck! -- Nadav Har'El|Sunday, Sep 10 2000, 11 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Make it idiot proof and someone will http://nadav.harel.org.il |make a better idiot. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Job postings
On Thu, Sep 14, 2000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote about "Job postings": When you post an offer of a job, please make sure your include the following: 1. Where the job is, e.g. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, small town 20 km west of Haifa, ^ Does that job come with a all-expense-paid company boat? :) -- Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Sep 14 2000, 14 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |If Barbie is so popular, why do you have http://nadav.harel.org.il |to buy her friends? = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: samba vs win98 enabled
On Mon, Sep 18, 2000, Alex Dubrovsky wrote about "samba vs win98 enabled": Hi all We have a weird problem here When user modifies file on samba share from win98 with notepad/word/other program the modification date for that file is turned into the year , like this: drwxr-xr-x 5 odedbodedb4096 Sep 18 07:18 Desktop -rwxr--r-- 1 odedbodedb1422 Sep 18 2000 oded.test.txt ^^^ This doesn't happen when done from win95/NT/2000 machine it happens with both samba on solaris and samba on linux ... In Unix, modification times are stored as the number of seconds that have passed since Midnight, January 1, 1970, GMT (if I remember correctly). But if you were to convert this to a full date, with month, day-of-the-month, year and hour, ls would not have much place to display it, assuming the standard 80-character line width. This is why it is customary for 'ls -l' to use the following heuristic to decide how to display only partial information about the date: (see 'info ls', for example): "For files with a time more than six months old or more than one hour into the future, the timestamp contains the year instead of the time of day." If you want to see the full time, use the "--full-time" paramter to ls (Assuming, of course, GNU ls. This option was *not* available on ATT's Unix). Anyway, because the file you show is not over 6 months in the past (because it says "September 2000"), we can come to the conclusion: it is more than 1 hour in the future. This could mean one of two things: 1. The time on your PC is off by over one hour. 2. Time-zone problems: in this case the file will be 3 hours in the future (check this with the --full-time paramter as I said above). You should check if the timezone configuration on your Windows 98 is different than the one in windows 95 (which you say works correctly), and if it is, copy the timezone configuration from Windows 95. You can also try a) Setting your PC is to "GMT" (e.g., "Monrovia" time zone) with the Israeli time. b) Setting your PC to "Israel" time zone, with the Israeli time. and see which one will work correctly. Good luck, Nadav. -- Nadav Har'El|Monday, Sep 18 2000, 18 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Linux: Because rebooting is for adding http://nadav.harel.org.il |new hardware. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how long since you've heard one like this.......?
On Mon, Sep 18, 2000, Lam, Yochai wrote about "how long since you've heard one like this...?": here's a question you didn't hear the last 8 years. "what command do you use in a batch file to delay the running of commands 10 seconds, without outside intervention"? i want to delay the system to allow the startup of a slow starting service How about, sleep 10 ;) You've asked for it, posting this question in a Linux mailing list! Actually, this answer is correct if you install the 'sleep' command from Cygnus's DOS port of GNU utilities. And for a more serious reply - try "pause 10". If I remember correctly. But maybe I'm wrong and I don't have anywhere to check this on... -- Nadav Har'El|Monday, Sep 18 2000, 18 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I before E except after C. We live in a http://nadav.harel.org.il |weird society! = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Serial Terminal.
On Mon, Sep 18, 2000, Gavrie Philipson wrote about "Re: Serial Terminal.": Udi Finkelstein wrote: Look at http://realweasel.com This ISA card emulates a PC monochrome video adapter card and keyboard through a serial device. Please note that some so-called "server motherboards" have such a feature built in. For example, I have a server with an Intel Lancewood motherboard, which will let you use a serial console at BIOS-level. Very cool. Many years ago, I was bit by such a bios feature :) I was running ATT System V Release 4, on the console (without X windows) of a 386sx machine, and everything was great until one day everything seemed strange: I couldn't see text attributes (like colors) on the screen, and output to the screen was about 100 times slower than usual (the output of ls, for example, would scroll about one line every second). I couldn't for the life of me figure out what's wrong, and on some point I was sure I got some wierd virus, although no antivirus could find it. After several days of wasting my time looking at every possible configuration parameter, I finally found the problem: my BIOS configuration was set up to send a copy of all the video text output to the serial port (or printer, I don't remember). I still don't know what caused it to start behaving this way. -- Nadav Har'El|Monday, Sep 18 2000, 18 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Jury: Twelve people who determine which http://nadav.harel.org.il |client has the better lawyer. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Someone know a good place to mirror Redhat's Rawhide from?
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000, Ely Levy wrote about "Someone know a good place to mirror Redhat's Rawhide from?": ftp.redhat.com is really slow and full and the others I found didn't have all the files.. ideas? I don't know whether it has "Rawhide" (whatever that is) or not, but you should try ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/redhat ILAN (the university network) has a direct connection to switzerland, so it should be quite fast to download. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Sep 19 2000, 19 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |The two most common elements in the http://nadav.harel.org.il |universe are hydrogen and stupidity. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FREE REDHAT 6.2 CD!!!!
On Tue, Sep 26, 2000, Lior Krochmal wrote about "FREE REDHAT 6.2 CD": Yo Yo Yo PPL!!! i guess you all allready know about the Comdex in "Ganei Ata'arucha" In Tel-Aviv at the 27/09/00 . there will be the "Linux Day" - our day . this is something for sure : there gonna be a HUGE pinguin over there that will just give any one who wants a FREE REDHAT 6.2 CD . there are thousends of cd's - and thats totally free to get - All you have to do is be there THEN : BE THERE! and get your cd's . So, now they're spamming about Linux too... I don't know who this guy is (he didn't say who he represents! That's odd), or if he's actually telling the truth (knowing Israelis, even if he has 10,000 pinguins they'll be gone in 10 minutes - even avid Microsoft supporters will take one if it's free), but this message was sent to every Israeli linux-related mailing list in existant - including even ivrix-discuss and ivrix-announce (I blocked it - this message has *nothing* to do with Hebrew!). BTW, about this being the old Redhat CD - at least the new one is only a week old... On the last Comdex, one company has the audacity to give out Redhat 6.0 when 6.1 was long available (the same company sold 6.1 at the spot for 250 shekels, if I remember correctly). I know, they don't have to give out anything free, and "don't check a gift-horse's mouth" and everything, but still I think it's not very useful to get an old distribution (as Eli put it, "Yesterday's Newspaper") :) -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Sep 26 2000, 26 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Energizer Bunny arrested - charged with http://nadav.harel.org.il |battery. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Limits of grep?
On Tue, Sep 26, 2000, Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: Limits of grep?": Short explanation regarding the use of wildcards in Unix commands: .. The reason for that is precisely so that you can use this shell feature to perform wildcard expansion. The down side of this is that the limit you have encountered is a shell limit, not a grep limit. The only thing I can suggest to you is to use a program that enumerates the files, and performs grep on each one. Luckily, such a program exists. It is called "find". Shachar gave a good explanation and suggestions, but I would just like to correct one point: the limit you encountered is not actually a limit of the shell per se, but rather a limit of the kernel. As Shachar explained, the shell expands the wildcard into a huge list, and then constructs (using dynamic memory, which is NOT limited) the command line. The shell then calls the system call execve (see 'man execve') to run this command line. This kernel call has a limit - I don't know what it is in Linux, but from a little experiment I guess it is 128 kilobytes. If the command line is over this limit, the system-call fails with a E2BIG error, and the command is not run. The shell sees this error, and tells it to the user. For example, and to see that this has nothing to do with wildcard expansion, I created a file /tmp/aaa which is a 150K big line filled with about file names, and then run 'ls' with that line as the arguments, and get the error: bash$ ls `cat /tmp/aaa` sh: /bin/ls: Argument list too long In fact, *any* command, not just ls, will fail in the exact same way. But to see that this is *not* a shell problem, try running echo `cat /tmp/aaa` And this works! (be careful - it will scroll a lot of garbage :)). Why? Because (at least on bash and zsh) echo is a shell builtin, and no external program needs to be run, hence the huge argument list does not need to be passed to the kernel. The shell itself has no problems dealing with this huge argument list because, as I already mentioned, it uses dynamic memory. By the way, 128K (if this is indeed the limit on Linux) is actually a big limit. If I remember correctly, old versions of Unix only allowed 4096 bytes on the command line, so xargs and the likes were very useful commands. On Solaris, the limit is even bigger: 1048320 bytes (see ARG_MAX in limits.h). -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Sep 26 2000, 26 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Long periods of drought are always http://nadav.harel.org.il |followed by rain. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Limits of grep?
On Tue, Sep 26, 2000, To Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: Limits of grep?": On Tue, Sep 26, 2000, Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: Limits of grep?": command line. This kernel call has a limit - I don't know what it is in Linux, but from a little experiment I guess it is 128 kilobytes. If the command line ... I feel funny responding to my own message, but here it goes :) I checked, and the limit in Linux is indeed 128K (at least, in the stock 2.2.14 kernel included in Redhat 6.2): In /usr/src/linux-2.2.14/include/linux/limits.h you'll find #define ARG_MAX 131072/* # bytes of args + environ for exec() */ By the way, it brings up another point I forgot to mention: the limit on the command line includes the size of the environment (i.e., a string containing all the exported shell variables), because this environment string is also passed to the called program using execve (aain, see 'man execve' for more information). -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Sep 26 2000, 26 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |In Fortran, God is real unless declared http://nadav.harel.org.il |an integer. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Limits of grep?
On Tue, Sep 26, 2000, guy keren wrote about "Re: Limits of grep?": lets read the source more ;) and btw, this does not mean there is no limit also imposed in the shell (i.e. it might check for its own limit before invoking the libc function that will then invoke the xecve system call - anyone wants to look at bash's source to verify that? and at libc's source to verify it doesn't impose another limit too? As I showed in an example (using 'echo'), both bash and zsh's limits, if any such limits exist, are higher than the kernel. And if any such limits exist, they should be promptly removed - almost all the GNU utilities, for example, don't have any line-length limits except the obvious limit on total memory size. looking further into the header files reveals another limit i was unaware of, in /usr/include/bits/posix1_lim.h: /* Maximum length of arguments to `execve', including environment. */ #define _POSIX_ARG_MAX 4096 i wonder which version of posix this limit relates to, and if it is at all used anywhere in the system. tihs file, on a second glance, looks completely outdated (e.g. maximum number of open files for a process is 16, maximum number of simultaneos proces per user ID is 6, etc...). I'm just guessing here, but perhaps this is a posix-mandated *minimum* ARG_MAX, meaning that any posix system must allow at least this size. If I remember correctly, ATT Seventh Edition Unix on VAX had this 4096 byte limit (which today seems miniscule, but it wasn't too bad, and you'd get around it with find and xargs), and so did early versions of System V. Remember that the VAX's contemporary, the Commodore VIC 20, only had 4K in total memory :) -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Sep 26 2000, 26 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I love deadlines. I love the whooshing http://nadav.harel.org.il |sound they make as they go by. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Limits of grep?
On Tue, Sep 26, 2000, guy keren wrote about "Re: Limits of grep?": be carefull not to trust manual pages too much - they are too often not updated. only checking the soruce program of the specific version of program you're currently using is usefull for drawing out definitive conclusions (by 'source' i refer to the c files, not the header files - as you saw, the posix limits header file is completely out of date). Both are true advices, but it's like killing a fly with a hammer - you should use the easiest and most appropriate tool, and only resort to a bigger tool when really needed. What I'm trying to say is that for answering this simple question I looked at 'man' (the easiest) and when I saw the answer isn't there I 'grep'ed the source, and found the .h file. If this was a life-or-death or a million dollar thing, I would have also gone to the ".c" files to check that this macro is actually being used, and how, but this wasn't that important... Besides, I only wanted to point out that the limit people noticed comes from the kernel, NOT from the shell. This is a fact I've known for a very long time (since the time the limit was 4096 :)), and I didn't need neither the man pages nor sources to tell me that. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Sep 26 2000, 26 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I'm a peripheral visionary: I see into http://nadav.harel.org.il |the future, but mostly off to the sides. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Limits of grep?
On Tue, Sep 26, 2000, Shaul Karl wrote about "Re: Limits of grep?": Then xargs won't work either, will it? It will work, because xargs can run the command several times, each time giving it only part of the arguments. See 'man xargs' (or, read the source if you prefer ;)) Some relevant quotes from the manual: "xargs reads arguments from the standard input, delimited by blanks (which can be protected with double or single quotes or a backslash) or newlines, and executes the command one or more times with any initial-arguments followed by arguments read from standard input. --max-lines[=max-lines], -l[max-lines] Use at most max-lines nonblank input lines per command line; max-lines defaults to 1 if omitted. Trailing blanks cause an input line to be logically continued on the next input line. Implies -x. ... --max-args=max-args, -n max-args Use at most max-args arguments per command line. Fewer than max-args arguments will be used if the size (see the -s option) is exceeded, unless the -x option is given, in which case xargs will exit. " -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Sep 26 2000, 27 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Tea or coffee? Coffee, without cream. It http://nadav.harel.org.il |will be without milk, we have no cream. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Limits of grep?
On Wed, Sep 27, 2000, Omer Musaev wrote about "Re: Limits of grep?": xargs has flags -n , -l , -s to limit amount od args xargs execs each time. Thus, having find . -name "*" | xargs -n 500 , and assuming that find will return 654 file names, xargs will run _twice_, one time with 500 args, second time with 154 However, more elegant (IMHO) solution is not to use find and xargs at all, but instead use : ls | while read file_name ; do grep pattern $filename ; done (sh syntax used ) Yes, but that will run the 'grep' program 654 times, compared to 2 times in the xargs solution in your example! Forgetting for a moment the small difference in grep output between one and many files, the problem with your last solution is that it is much slower because the grep executable is loaded 654 times, fork is done 654 times, share libraries are linked 654 times, and so on. On todays computers, with fast CPUs, disks, in-memory disk cache, and fast fork, this is not bad (but still not good!), but in the good-old-days, the xargs solution would be significantly more efficient. So if you need a quick-and-dirty script, use a loop like Omer suggested (but it contains a small typo - fix it first!) - it's more flexible and general. But if efficiency is important, the xargs solution wins. If you're looking for less typing, the xargs solution is shorter too :) -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Sep 27 2000, 27 Elul 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I want to be a human being, not a human http://nadav.harel.org.il |doing -- Scatman John = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why penguin?
On Wed, Oct 04, 2000, Mevorach, Assaf wrote about "RE: Why penguin?": sorry to disappoint you but that's the explanation you can see it all over: http://gate.crashing.org/penguin.html http://www.penguinpower.com/PenguinPower/whyapenguin http://www.stones.demon.co.uk/why-penguin.html http://andromeda.campbellsvil.edu/~don/ascue/penguin.html http://www.viererbande.net/Tim/wpeng.html need more? No I don't need more :) I was just saying that the original page you posted is nothing more than a geeky "bdichat keresh" saying why the penguin is fat and sitting down (did he just eat or get laid? read the page ;)), but doesn't explain one iota on why or in what context the penguin was orignally chosen. Most of the pages you now quote have the same text, except http://www.penguinpower.com/PenguinPower/whyapenguin Which has a more meaningful explanation. According to this explanation, when Linus wanted a mascot for Linux (if I remember correctly, for Linux 2.0 - the 1.* kernels had a different logo), he wanted a penguin because he liked that animal and thought that it was "fun". I believe that all the explanations on how the penguin should be fat, sitting down, content, and so on are just jokes written after the actual picture was chosen in a competition. http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/ (the homepage of the guy who designed the penguin logo) says "Here are the results of an idea acquired from discussions on the linux-kernel mailing list, and an initial suggestion by Alan Cox. ". It doesn't say "Here is the fat, well-fed, sitting-down penguin as suggested by Linus.". You can see in http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/older.html older logo suggestions by the same guy - not all of them are fat or sitting down. One of them is an angry boxer :) You can also see other logos people designed for the same competition, in http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~jeremiah/linux-pix/linux-logo.html Many of them weren't even penguins! I even see there the Linux Shark I remembered from the 0.99 version of the kernel... -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Oct 4 2000, 5 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I couldn't think of an insteresting http://nadav.harel.org.il |signature to put here... Maybe next time. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HP 720C
On Thu, Oct 05, 2000, Noam Meltzer wrote about "HP 720C": Ooop I checked now in the printing howto, and I found out that it is supported under linux. Very strange to me because I remembered that it wasn't, especially because I have one in work, and I checked about it. Take a look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pnm2ppa/ For at least 2 years now, this guy (I forgot his name) was trying to reverse engineer HP's "HP Printing Architecture" (the proprietary protocol the windows drivers were using to communicate with the printer, used in the 720C and several other printers). When I got my 720C printer, about 2 years ago, these drivers only worked in black-and-white, but they now work in color, quite nicely, and the 720C (or whatever successor to it they sell now) is a good, cheap, printer for Linux. I set up my printer on my own (I had Redhat 6.0 then), but since Redhat 6.2 the 720C is supported directly by redhat (run printtool) - so if you're having trouble it's probably some other configuration error, not an unsupported printer. For the curious: What I have done (redhat does a very similar thing, I guess) is to set up a print filter that takes a postscript file, run gs on it to produce a bitmap, and then convert the bitmap in to the HP PPA format to send to the printer: In /etc/printcap I put lp|HP DeskJet 720C:\ :lp=/dev/lp0:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lp:\ :lf=/var/spool/lpd/lp/log:\ :af=/var/spool/lpd/lp/acct:\ :if=/usr/local/bin/ps.if:\ :la:mx#0:\ :sh:sf: lpc|HP DeskJet 720C:\ :lp=/dev/lp0:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lp:\ :lf=/var/spool/lpd/lp/log:\ :af=/var/spool/lpd/lp/acct:\ :if=/usr/local/bin/psc.if:\ :la:mx#0:\ :sh:sf: (two virtual printers - one for color printout, one for black-and-white), and the two input filters are: /usr/local/bin/ps.if: gs -dSAFER -sPAPERSIZE=a4 -sDEVICE=pbmraw -q -dNOPAUSE -r600 -sOutputFile=- - | pbm2ppa - - /usr/local/bin/psc.if: gs -dSAFER -sPAPERSIZE=a4 -sDEVICE=ppmraw -q -dNOPAUSE -r600 -sOutputFile=- - | pnm2ppa - - and my configuration files: /etc/pbm2ppa.conf: version 720 papersize a4 xoff140 # \ Adjust these for your printer. yoff-530 # / (see CALIBRATE) top 150 bottom 150 left 150 right150 /etc/pnm2ppa.conf: version 720# 710, 712, 722 also acceptable papersize a4 ColOffsX-12 ColOffsY41 RedGammaIdx 6 GreenGammaIdx 3 BlueGammaIdx3 xoff140 # \ Adjust these for your printer. yoff-530 # / (see CALIBRATE) # 1/4 inch margins all around (at 600 DPI) top 150 bottom 150 left 150 right 150 -- Nadav Har'El|Friday, Oct 6 2000, 8 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy http://nadav.harel.org.il |every minute of it. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [meta] Reply-To header
On Sun, Oct 08, 2000, Matan Ziv-Av wrote about "[meta] Reply-To header": In the short time since the list adds a reply-to header, we have seen a few double messages as a result, and a reply that was sent to the list by mistake. Is it not enough to prove that a return to normal behaviour is necessary? I'm not saying which behavior is correct (I already made my opinion clear, I think), but you have to remember one thing: people have been on this list for months (or in many cases, years), and are used to doing group replies. There are many other lists that have a "reply-to list" policy - did you see double postings in such lists, or many accidental postings? I didn't. It's just a habit that people will need some time to shake, I think. P.S. why do you call the previous behavior "normal"? Can somebody do an informal survey of several mailing list, to see what reply-to policy most of them use, or what behavior most users expect? -- Nadav Har'El|Sunday, Oct 8 2000, 9 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cats know what we feel. They don't care, http://nadav.harel.org.il |but they know. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Catch 22 question
On Fri, Oct 13, 2000, Aviram Jenik wrote about "Catch 22 question": Hi. I want to install mod_ssl by rpm. The only RPM I could for mod_ssl requires Ooops! After pressing the "send" button on my reply, I suddenly realised that you wanted mod_ssl, not openssl, which are of course two different things :) So just ignore my previous message, or take it as a Redhat-7-is-not-as-crappy- as-people-make-it-seem propeganda :) -- Nadav Har'El| Friday, Oct 13 2000, 14 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Someone offered you a cute little quote http://nadav.harel.org.il |for your signature? JUST SAY NO! = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how to remove Innd system?
On Mon, Oct 16, 2000, hagit wrote about "how to remove Innd system?": Hello How can I remove from my server the Innd system ? The omnipotent remove command is 'rm' :) But if you're using one of the common Linux distributions (you didn't say), there's probably a more orderly method for removing packages installed with the distribution. For example, in Redhat, rpm -e inn Uninstalls the 'inn' package (which includes innd - see 'rpm -qi inn' for information on what this package is, or 'rpm -ql inn' for a list of files it contains). -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Oct 16 2000, 17 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |You do not need a parachute to skydive. http://nadav.harel.org.il |You only need one to skydive twice. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RealPlayer
On Mon, Oct 16, 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about "Re: RealPlayer": On 16-Oct-2000 Alex Shnitman wrote: That's extremely old. Version 7 is available and works pretty well for me. http://scopes.real.com/real/player/unix/unix.html Thanks - I downloaded it, but got an error message from RPM. Is it safe to continue. Here's the message: rpm -i rp7.linux20.libc6.i386.cs1.rpm file /usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-wav.kdelnk from install of RealPlayer-7.0-7 conflicts with file from package kmpg-0.5.0a-5mdk file /usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-wav.kdelnk from install of RealPlayer-7.0-7 conflicts with file from package kdebase-1.1.2-30mdk I'm running Mandrake 7.0 Yes... This is also happenning with Redhat 7. Just install it with rpm --replacefiles rp7.linux20.libc6.i386.cs1.rpm (and I suggest renaming the above rpm to RealPlayer-7.0-7.i386.rpm, BTW) Another thing to watch out for: if you're running esd (the enlightened sound daemnon - it seems to run by default for gnome), make sure you use the "-as" option (e.g., "esd -as 10") so that esd releases the sound device after some time of inactivity. I don't know whether gnome does this by default (I use ctwm :)). The sign that this problem is happening is that realplay opens a window, and then just gets stuck, and doesn't even refresh its window. Unfortunately, realplayer doesn't know how to use esd. -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Oct 16 2000, 17 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A messy desk is a sign of a messy mind. http://nadav.harel.org.il |An empty desk is a sign of an empty mind. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: firewall again + Mandrake Demoes
On Thu, Oct 19, 2000, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about "Re: firewall again + Mandrake Demoes": ... I believe some of them were translated to Hebrew by Or. Have a look at http://www.ivrix.org.il/projects/guides/guides.html (BTW Or: this page needs links up to the homepage). ... Actually, in the Ivrix.org.il homepage, you click on "Ongoing Ivrix Projects" and in the page you get press the "home" link next to "Hebrew Documentation", and you get there. Maybe it's too hard to get there - I'm open to any suggestions on how to redesign the website to make it easier to use (or volunteers to do it :)) -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Oct 19 2000, 20 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |If God is watching us, the least we can http://nadav.harel.org.il |do is be entertaining. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: firewall
On Thu, Oct 19, 2000, Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: firewall": Duplicating exactly the FW-1 functionality in an opensource project is not practical, due to a patent on stateful inspection. This gives the FW-1 product the ability to open specific ports that would normally be blocked, because, for example, an FTP protocol request required that port. If you wanted to support the same protocol with a static packet filtering firewall (such as IPChains), either this, or probably a lot more, ports would have to be permanently open. To the .. I don't know anything about the patent, but Linux already has "stateful inspection", in its masquarading code. If you have a linux firewall, and a network of other computers behind it, Linux does IP masquarading very nicely, and knows to allow incoming packets only on open sessions. You also have "masq" modules that can allow incoming packets/connections "related" to an open session - for example, FTP needs another port opened besides the one you're opening. Unfortunately, ipchains itself does *NOT* support sessions, so you can't allow, for example, incoming packets (destined for the LINUX HOST ITSELF, not masquaraded hosts behind it) to be allowed only if the local host opened the port first. Iptables, the firewalling code in the 2.4 kernel, will support this, and I'm really looking forward for it - I'm not sure if FW1 will have anything better in the firewall area than Linux after that (and I'm not talking on VPN or proxy support now). But ipchains works very nicely even without supporting sessions. One very important feature that you should be aware of is the "-y" option, that allow incoming packets, but not incoming TCP packets with SYN on (i.e., even if the attacket sends packets to some open port, and even if something is listening on that port, the attacker will *not* be able to make the connection! For example, to safely allow HTTP connections to port 80 on other computers (without having to hassle with proxies, etc.), and data returning to your own port, use the ipchains rules: -A output -p TCP --dport 80 --sport 1024: -j ACCEPT -A input -p TCP ! -y --sport 80 --dport 1024: -j ACCEPT -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Oct 19 2000, 20 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A city is a large community where people http://nadav.harel.org.il |are lonesome together. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: firewall
On Thu, Oct 19, 2000, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote about "Re: firewall": One thing not commonly mentioned in regard to "stateful inspection" is the risk it *introduces* to your setting. Consider the following obvious fact: for statefull inspection the firewall is required to keep state for any entity it tracks, such as open connections. A possible attack is then to open as many connection as you can in a short time to force that connection table to fill up. This is not (any more) an academic discussions - SYN attacks, which are basically based on the same principle (but happening at the bastion server, not the firewall) is what caused in the last year major players like Yahoo and eBay to fall down. Using a "stateful inspection" firewall introduces yet another point of failure to your setup. .. This is a good point, but I think it's not much of a problem usually, because of two reasons: 1) In a home network, or even office network: In this case, the main concern is to prevent cracking into your system, and prevent remote-control trojans inside your system from working even if the got inside (e.g., someone clicked on that "VBS" attachment). Most people would not really care to protect their system against DoS attacks. 2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see much point in doing stateful inspection on a *LISTENING* port. I mean, if you have an http server listening on port 80, then what would you gain by trying to follow the incoming sessions in the firewall? Are you interested in catching non-SYN segments of a non-existant connection and not return an RST? Why? Or are you trying to prevent weird "replies" to hosts that never asked a question? Why? (if this is to prevent trojans from connecting out, they have other ways to communicate out, usually... you can also prevent outgoing SYNs) So the firewall should not be doing stateful inspection or session checking or whatever you all it on packets coming to port 80, so I don't see how it can be overloaded. I see the importance of stateful inspection in the other direction: i.e., a user from inside the firewall makes a connection, and we want to allow packets to return to him, but only from the one machine he's connected to - we don't want to open up everything from every machine just to allow this connection. I don't see how a DoS attack can be done remotely in such a case. -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Oct 19 2000, 20 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I'm a peripheral visionary: I see into http://nadav.harel.org.il |the future, but mostly off to the sides. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: firewall
On Thu, Oct 19, 2000, Aviram Jenik wrote about "Re: firewall": Due to all that hassle, and the extremly "under cover" approach that both Yosi and Eli have taken about the misdirected email, I vote the "reply-to:" field be removed from the headers. I second that. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Shachar was the only one that asked for the reply-to feature. If my memory serves me right (and it rarely does), there's no reason not to remove this problematic Hehhheem... Hehhheem... I also wanted to have this header... I still think that the reply-to header's benfits outway its problems, and that people on a discussion list (not than an announcement list), should not be conveniently replying to one another by email, and should enlighten the rest of us with their reply. Remember, that when somebody on the list asks a question, there's a high probability that other people are interested in this question too - so any replies directly to the person asking the question robs the other people on the list of a chance to read those replies too. But I lived with linux-il being the way it was for a year, and if you change it back, I guess I will live with it again :) To reply-to or not to reply-to, that is the question! -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Oct 19 2000, 21 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax http://nadav.harel.org.il |is a fine for doing well. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: firewall
On Thu, Oct 19, 2000, Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: firewall": Ahem Ahem Actually, I did not ask for the "Reply-To:" field. I asked that people doing the actual reply not reply to both me and the list. But they'll never do that, and I explained why: pressing "g" is simply too easy. This is a technicality. I was not aware of the very good reasons mentioned in Gilad's mail, and so I did have a change of heart on that matter. Nadav - sorry, but so far you are the only voice in favour of the "reply-to" field. Nothing personal. Ok :) I know to "lehafsid bekavod" :) Vox populi, vox dei! -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Oct 19 2000, 21 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Support bacteria - they're the only http://nadav.harel.org.il |culture some people have! = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Cool shell tricks (was: Re: file system questions)
On Fri, Oct 20, 2000, Adi Stav wrote about "Cool shell tricks (was: Re: file system questions)": On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 04:59:48PM +0200, guy keren wrote: there is a dirty method you could use. every once in a while (perhaps even via a cron job), execute the command: :/path/to/.xsession-error Cool. I love these little shell tricks... I'm personally particularly fond .. Does anyone else like these tricks? I'd love to hear about other people's. When you know all the features of your shell (e.g., bash or zsh), it gives you incredible power - both for interactive use and for programming (zsh is a very capable programming language!). To wield this power wisely, you'll need to know what exactly is available to you, i.e., you should read the manual and/or texinfo documentation, and see what cool features your shell has :) 6 years ago I switched from using ATT's (David Korn's) ksh to using zsh because of a few features I was missing (such as smart completion). The Zsh executable was then much bigger than ksh (now on Solaris it is about 2.5 bigger) and at first I thought that it was bloatware, adding, besides the 2-3 features I wanted, 20-30 extra useless features. Since then I changed my mind - I've probably used each and every feature in zsh for something, and I can't believe I once settled for ksh :) -- Nadav Har'El|Saturday, Oct 21 2000, 22 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if http://nadav.harel.org.il |a woodchuck would chuck wood? = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Cool shell tricks (was: Re: file system questions)
On Sat, Oct 21, 2000, Adi Stav wrote about "Re: Cool shell tricks (was: Re: file system questions)": True... You can't. It would've been nice if Bash had the option to use temporary files rather than FIFOs... But I don't know if it's needed that often. Zsh has an additional process substition that looks like =(...), for example xdvi =(zcat file.dvi.gz) That creates a temporary file (a regular file, not a pipe) with the output of the command, and passes that name to another command. I use it very often - usually in the form of the example above. I almost never use the (...) form: while it can be more efficiant, the difference is barely noticable (on a modern computer) and many programs (including xdvi) can't handle pipes as input files because they want to be able to seek (rewind) into the file - so using temporary files instead of a the pipe is like a "better safe than sorry". I don't know if bash also has this form - check out its manual. -- Nadav Har'El|Saturday, Oct 21 2000, 22 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |If God is watching us, the least we can http://nadav.harel.org.il |do is be entertaining. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Process Id by Name.
On Mon, Oct 23, 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Re: Process Id by Name.": .. AFAIK, ps uses the proc filesystem to gather information, at least on Linux. So you might be able to use that. I suggest you take a look at the source of the procps utilities. That of course is assuming they are not Linux specific. /proc and procps is quite Linux-specific, as far as I know. Solaris, for example, also has /proc/, but /proc/123456 has different files, and different directories. Other versions of Unix don't have a /proc filesystem at all, and their ps needs to read /dev/kmem (the Kernel memory) to do their job, which also means that 'ps' needs to be setuid root, and so you can't easily write a different ps program (not to mention you don't have the source ;)). Parsing the output of the ps command is more portable, but note that there are 2 major variants of ps in the Unix world: BSD ps and System V ps. Solaris has them both (/bin/ps and /usr/ucb/ps) and Linux's ps is a wierd combination of both (depending on the options you give it). -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Oct 23 2000, 25 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |In God we Trust -- all others must http://nadav.harel.org.il |submit an X.509 certificate. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reply-to field
On Tue, Oct 24, 2000, Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: reply-to field": Ok, so as for this minute (after my vote), the result is tied (7 in favour, 7 against). What happens if that remains the situation? Well, just like the big-endians and little-endians in Gulliver's Travels, we'll have to go to war over it! Just kidding... I believe this mailing list has much more than 14 people, so let's let them vote for a few more days. Besides, maybe after you get this message twice (because I used 'g'roup reply) you'll change your vote and it will no longer be tied ;) -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Oct 24 2000, 25 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Energizer Bunny arrested - charged with http://nadav.harel.org.il |battery. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reply-to field
On Tue, Oct 24, 2000, Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: reply-to field": It is. Read http://www.halisp.net/halisp/reply-to-harmful.html for complete details. Now Shachar, that's not fair... I thought no propaganda during the poll :( As I said (and explained) previously, the opinions in the above mentioned website are completely wrong (at least, in my opinion ;)) Just think for yourself - when you *usually* reply to a message in this mailing list, where do you want the reply to go to? 1) If you *usually* want the reply to go to the whole list, vote "Yes" 2) If you *usually* want the reply to go only to the person who wrote the message, vote "No". I emphesise usually, because you can always do something special to get the other kind of reply. The reply-to header is there (or not there) as a convenience, not as some sort of religious artifact. VOTE YES! (if Shachar is allowed, than so am I ;)) -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Oct 24 2000, 25 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |How to become immortal: Read this http://nadav.harel.org.il |signature tomorrow and follow its advice. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with getfh nfs
On Thu, Oct 26, 2000, Schlomo Schapiro wrote about "problem with getfh nfs":
..
Also, what can I do to get rid of stale NFS handles ? I mean besides
rebooting the machine (which is not a Linux-style solution).
I hope you'll get a better answer, but I just wanted to point out one thing:
one of the nice things about Linux (and Unix in general) is the decoupling
of the various parts of the system, and when one fails you can (at least in
priciple) restart it, without having to restart the whole system ("reboot").
What Windows users know as "reboot the system for this tiny configuration
change to take effect" is known in Unix as "restart this one tiny service
for the changes to it to take effect".
So if you're having problems with NFS on one filesystem, you can umount it,
and mount it again, and that should (minus any bugs) clear all the handles,
caches, and such stuff from the time of the old mount.
[I know nfs is in the kernel now, but I hope that it still follows the general
Unix philosophy]
PS: Please reply to the list only
PPS: List-master ! Please reinstate the Reply-To: header field !
;)
As usual (without the reply-to) you'll get this reply to the list and to
yourself - pressing "g"(roup reply) is easier than having to cut and paste
the list address myself...
All you YAY-sayers out there: there's still a little time to vote!
--
Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Oct 26 2000, 27 Tishri 5761
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Lumber Cartel member #2224.
http://nadav.harel.org.il |http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel
=
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Re: Apache 1.3.6 for Linux
On Thu, Oct 26, 2000, Nir Yurman wrote about "Apache 1.3.6 for Linux": I was wondering where is it possible to download Apache 1.3.6 for Linux as a rpm package. (a package to be installed using Red Hat package manager) I could not find it under http://www.apache.org since the site does not provide Apache 1.3.6 package. Help appreciated. Maybe I'm missing something here, but the latest apache RPM is 1.3.14, and you can get it, for example, from Redhat's updates directory (apache-1.3.14-3.i386.rpm is the latest RPM, and you should also get the other apache-* stuff). But if you insist on 1.3.6, perhaps because you're doing security checks on old versions (or god knows what), you can get this antique version from the old Redhat 6.0 distribution, for example look at ftp://ftp.redhat.com/redhat/old-releases/redhat-6.0/i386/RedHat/RPMS/apache-1.3.6-7.i386.rpm (of course, get the other apache-* packages there too) See also www.rpmfind.net: you can find there any RPM you're looking for. Nir Yurman. Research and Development. Gilian Technologies. 00-972-9-956-0036 ext 246 Good luck :) -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Oct 26 2000, 27 Tishri 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I put a dollar in one of those change http://nadav.harel.org.il |machines. Nothing changed. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test
On Thu, Nov 02, 2000, Ishai Parasol wrote about "Test": TEST I don't know what you were testing, but at least one part of your configuration is wrong. Your email contains: Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 22:43:49 + (/etc/localtime) When you see "/etc/localtime" instead of a correct timezone, your system is trying to tell you that /etc/localtime is wrong. It should be a link or a copy of the appropriate file. For example: ln -s ../usr/share/zoneinfo/Asia/Jerusalem /etc/localtime -- Nadav Har'El| Friday, Nov 3 2000, 5 Heshvan 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Open your arms to change, but don't let http://nadav.harel.org.il |go of your values. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: number of CPUs
On Wed, Nov 08, 2000, Adi Stav wrote about "Re: number of CPUs": ... But why is it so crucial not to parse a file? I can't imagine anyone checking for the number of CPUs in the inner loop of their programs :) system( "exit `grep ^processor /proc/cpuinfo | tail -1 | cut -d : -f 2`" ) Would probably work (I don't have SMP machine to check it). This will obviously not work - unless your intention was to print the number of processors on the standard output, rather than actually using it in your program :) The one-namespace idea of /proc was very good (probably taken from plan 9), but in my opinion it wasn't done too well. We should have had a number of different files for the different informations, e.g, /proc/cpuinfo/ncpus /proc/cpuinfo/1/model ... and things like that. (just like you have for processes on /proc). Alternatively, we should have a libary (say, liblinux.so) that has functions that use the /proc interface to get this information. But I don't believe such a library exists. -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Nov 9 2000, 11 Heshvan 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Promises are like babies: fun to make, http://nadav.harel.org.il |but hell to deliver. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: number of CPUs
On Thu, Nov 09, 2000, To [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about "Re: number of CPUs": On Wed, Nov 08, 2000, Adi Stav wrote about "Re: number of CPUs": ... But why is it so crucial not to parse a file? I can't imagine anyone checking for the number of CPUs in the inner loop of their programs :) system( "exit `grep ^processor /proc/cpuinfo | tail -1 | cut -d : -f 2`" ) Would probably work (I don't have SMP machine to check it). This will obviously not work - unless your intention was to print the number of processors on the standard output, rather than actually using it in your program :) Sorry - I was too quick on my reply. What you wrote should in fact work - I didn't notice the "exit" part. This is not to say that it's a very efficient method of doing it... And it will not work on machines with over 126 CPUs :) -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Nov 9 2000, 11 Heshvan 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Someone offered you a cute little quote http://nadav.harel.org.il |for your signature? JUST SAY NO! = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: .netrc for Auto-login FTP session.
On Thu, Nov 23, 2000, Benji Selano wrote about ".netrc for Auto-login FTP session.": Hi... Where can i find some info on Auto-login ftp sessions? I can't seem to find a man page on the .netrc file. It's strange you and all the people who answered you missed the obvious answer - the manpage you're looking for is netrc(5)!!! (see 'man netrc'). About 7 years ago I wrote a shell-script which uses the standard ftp (not ncftp or any other such non-standard program) to automate file transfers using .netrc's. If you're interested, take a look at ftp://ftp.math.technion.ac.il/nftp/README ftp://ftp.math.technion.ac.il/nftp/nftp.3.04.shar.Z -- Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Nov 23 2000, 26 Heshvan 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I want to be a human being, not a human http://nadav.harel.org.il |doing -- Scatman John = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: To: Cc:
And just when we thought the reply-to thread was dead for good ;) On Tue, Nov 28, 2000, Jonathan Ben-Avraham wrote about "Re: OT: To: Cc:": On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Guy Cohen wrote: I been away from the list for a while and beed reading the list again ~ for the last few days. I could not help but noticing pepoel reply to mails to the sender _and_ to the list, and i ask you why ? In mutt you press the "L" for replying only to the list, so is that so hard to do that instead of typing the "g" for global reply ? I'm quite sure pine, elm, or any other mailer have a group reply only botton/function. So why don't use that ? In my version of mutt (and probably yours too...), using "L" requires you to list each and every mailing list you subscribe to in special directives in the muttrc file. This is problematic in two ways: 1. Most people don't know how to use this feature, so "L" doesn't work for them, so they use "g", which does work. Pure and simple - the less straightforward a feature is, the less people will use it. 2. The lists mentioned on these directives have other side-effects besides making "L" work. The most annoying side-effect (for me) is that for every mailing list message, in the message list, you see the mailing list name instead of the poster's name. For people that don't have email filtering this is actually good, but for me it is very bad - I have a seperate folder for linux-il, and it doesn't help much when each and every message there is labled "linux-il" rather then by the poster's name! Perhaps there's a way to circumvent this problem, but I didn't bother to waste my time on this, because linux-il is one of the very few mailing lists that have this problem, and because the "g" solution works. Guy P.S. now if someone reply to this, i just wondar how it will be done (L/g) ?. Like 95% of the people on this list, I replied with "g"... You answer your own question. The double reply is for folks who post to lists to which they do not subscribe. Think about it. I don't think this is true. Most lists (I'm not sure if linux-il is like that) don't even allow people to post without subscribing first. This makes a lot of sense - it is very rude to "shout" a question in a mailing list, and then instead of hanging around the list to read the replies, you run away and expect that people find you themselves. So after you write a question in a mailing list (or newsgroup) good nettiquette requires you to stay on that mailing list (or newsgroup) and read the discussion that results from it. Requests like "please reply directly to me because I don't have time to read this list" are generally frowned-upon and ignored. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Nov 28 2000, 2 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at http://nadav.harel.org.il |math. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: To: Cc:
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote about "Re: OT: To: Cc:": On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Guy Cohen wrote: I been away from the list for a while and beed reading the list again for the last few days. I could not help but noticing pepoel reply to mails to the sender _and_ to the list, and i ask you why ? In mutt you press the "L" for replying only to the list, so is that ... You know, the wonderful thing about the internet and client/server protocols, is that you never know what's on the other side. Maybe I used "vi" to edit /var/spool/mail for your message, replied then used /usr/lib/sendmail to send it? You sort-of missed the point - if people were using vi sendmail to send replies, then indeed almost nobody will reply to both the person on the list (except the people who _deliberately_ want to do that, but most people don't). The reason many people do end up sending the message twice is because their non-vi-and-sendmail editor makes it easy to do so, usually in the form of a "group reply" or "reply to all" operation. So to understand why people do that, you have to understand the muas they use. I.e., does pine make it easy to reply this way? Does mutt? Does Netscape, Kmail, or whatever? As mentioned by me and other people, in mutt, just as an example, it is trivial to reply in this fashion, but it is not-trivial (although not very hard) to reply only to the list. It's like asking why most (if not all) messages on this list are in English, and then replying "the wonderful thing about the internet and client/server protocols, is that you never know what's on the other side. I can send a message in Klingon if I want". This is true, but not really an answer to the question. To answer the question you do need to understand the actual, not "theoretical", users. -- Nadav Har'El|Wednesday, Nov 29 2000, 2 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I am the world's greatest authority on http://nadav.harel.org.il |my own opinion. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: To: Cc:
On Tue, Nov 28, 2000, Herouth Maoz wrote about "Re: OT: To: Cc:": BTW, my e-mailer is KMail. It has reply and reply-to-all. How many people use Mutt anyway? Let's start a poll ;) My mailer history was using mailx (a.k.a. Mail) until about 1992, when I switched to elm, and only about a year ago I finally switched to mutt, because elm was starting to feel like a straight-jacket (it didn't support attachments, for example! [1]) and because mutt's look-and-feel is very similar to elm's (I don't like pine's look-and-feel). I never used a graphical mailer: as one of the mutt authors says (and I'm paraphrasing - I don't remember the exact quote): "I use a text-based mailer because I tend to type my emails, not click them." I also keep my email on a central computer, and log onto it from anywhere to read my mail, and this is much easier to do with a textual mailer like mutt. [1] http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/mutt/vs.elm.html -- Nadav Har'El|Wednesday, Nov 29 2000, 2 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer http://nadav.harel.org.il |system that can be kicked. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: To: Cc:
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote about "Re: OT: To: Cc:": I use sometimes pine, sometimes mutt and sometimes MH. In each case, I usually either reply to the person specifically, or reply to the list in general and the person -- unless I remember that this person does not like to receive mails twice. I'd do that even if I'm using vi+sendmail. Of course, the real problem is that you never know what you want to do, because you never know what the person on the other side likes you to do. Maybe I like to have replies go both to me and to the list. Maybe not. Maybe I'm subscribed. Maybe I'm not. There was a thread about it in Debian-Devel, and the agreed solution was that a) people should use their MUA to add a Mail-Followup-To: header. b) people who reply should configure their MUA to honour Mail-Followup-To:. But this gets more complicated: when somebody posts to the list a reply to your email, does he keep your address on the Mail-Followup-To, or not? Any choice is problematic: if you take the original person off and he's not subscribe he'll not see the replies to the replies, but if you leave him on he might get dozens of replies in sub-threads he's no longer interested in, and this might drag on for weeks (sometimes people "reply" even when they simply intend to post a new message). The latter is what happening in linux-il: sometimes you see when you press "g"roup reply that the email will be going to half-a-dozen people, each of them contributed one message to the thread you're replying too; The thread may have completely divereged since but the originator of the thread will still be getting a personal copy of every message on it. In short I think that there's only one solution to this nasty problem: when you write something to a list you must expect to visit the list to find the replies. Plain and simple. You simply can't rely on people forwarding a copy of every reply to you, or making decisions on what is a "reply" which should be forwarded to you and what is not. And once you can't rely on that and are forced to read the list anyway, getting a personal copy of each message becomes a nuisance. At least in my opinion. But let's face it - we'll never agree on what is the "proper" way to handle replies to mailing-lists... -- Nadav Har'El|Wednesday, Nov 29 2000, 2 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I used to be a lumberjack, but I just http://nadav.harel.org.il |couldn't hack it, so they gave me the axe. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ARP
On Sun, Dec 03, 2000, Boaz Rymland wrote about "Re: ARP": Benji Selano wrote: no /etc/ethers on RH 6.2.. :( any other idea? It doesn't have to exist by default. I have a RARP server here which takes it definitions from /etc/ethers. This is a RH server. This file didn't exist by default. I would have checked the kernel documentation, the part about ARP, etc' for more information. Or more simply, just do 'man ethers'! Note that many configuration files on the system do not exist until you first create them. The fact that a "/etc/ethers" file doesn't exist doesn't necessarily mean that it is not supported. -- Nadav Har'El|Sunday, Dec 3 2000, 6 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Promises are like babies: fun to make, http://nadav.harel.org.il |but hell to deliver. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OFF TOPIC] Re: Request for NT NFS server recommendation.
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000, Omer Zak wrote about "[OFF TOPIC] Re: Request for NT NFS server recommendation.": Ask for recommended brands of pork, beacon or shrimps in a mailing list devoted to Jewish halacha; or for the best wine and whiskey brands in a fundamental Moslem mailing list. However, you'll find that we are very liberal and enlightened: we only sprinkle stale penguin pee on people who ask Windows NT related questions. It's more like asking on a Jewish mailing-list "where can I find Glat-Kosher shrimp-lookalike that my gentile friends can serve me?" He's probably looking for NFS for NT because he *does* use Linux (or another Unix), but his NT-using friends [gentiles] that want to serve him files [food] still want to do that in their familiar way [serving shrimp]. You also make up other shrimp analogies for other NT-Unix mixing situations: 1. putting an SMB server on the Unix machine: "where can I find Glat-Kosher shrimp-lookalikes that I can serve to my gentile friends?" 2. putting NFS clients on the NT machines: "my gentile friends are used to shrimp - what doctor do you recommend to install a chicken-digesting module inside them?" ;) 3. putting SMB client on the Unix machine: "Can you recommend a chemical to transform the nasty shrimp my gentile friends serve me into chicken?" And a more serious note - I don't know anything about NFS servers on NT, but instead of putting an NFS server on the NT machine you can also consider putting an SMB client on the Linux machine, to mount "normal" NT-exported filesystems. This is very easy to do in Linux: put in /etc/fstab a like like //server/dir /mnt/dir smbfs uid=nyh,gid=nyh,username=me,password=Pasw0rd 0 0 See man 'man smbmount' for more information. Of course, replacing the directories, username, and other details, with the correct ones. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Dec 5 2000, 8 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Birthdays are good for you - the more http://nadav.harel.org.il |you have the longer you live. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux job offer
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000, Sagi Bashari wrote about "Re: Linux job offer": Sorry - this message shouldn't be on the list, please ignore it ;) I guess that after you get used to "g"roup replying on this mailing list, you do it even when you really mean to reply only to the person ;) So much for the prevent-accidental-booboos reason not to have a Reply-To field! But sorry for bringing up this long-forgotten issue again ;) -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Dec 5 2000, 8 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |We aim to please, you aim too, please. http://nadav.harel.org.il |(sign in a gas station men's room) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OFF TOPIC] Re: Request for NT NFS server recommendation.
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000, Alexander Indenbaum wrote about "Re: [OFF TOPIC] Re: Request for NT NFS server recommendation.": Guys and Girls! What I need is NFS server for NT since I want NT machine as fileserver for Unix ( Solaris and Linux ). I apologize if religious feeling of members of this list were hurt, yet I'd like to get an answer for my question. Since I don't have any religious feelings, you couldn't hurt any of them :) Anyway, as I said I don't know about NFS servers for NT - someone else will need to answer this if you insist on this course - but what I said is that I have experience with having the NT serve files in the usual way (SMB), and then Linux can mount such "shares" (or whatever the NT people call it) - it's actually easier than installing NFS on NT. I don't know if such an SMB solution exists on Solaris, though I'll be very surprised if it doesn't, because Sun also lives in the Real World, and knows that people may want to use windows "shares" advertised by their Windog-using friends. And convincing all of them to install NFS is like, well, convincing your religious friends to serve you shrimp. But again, if someone knows the answer to his *original* question, where to get an NFS server for NT, please step forward now, or forever hold your peace! -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Dec 6 2000, 9 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cat rule #2: Bite the hand that won't http://nadav.harel.org.il |feed you fast enough. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Permanent ip_forwarding definition
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000, Boaz Rymland wrote about "Re: Permanent ip_forwarding definition": Yoni Cohen wrote: I'm using RH 6 and i need to define the ip_forwarding of the OS to be enable/disable during the boot proccess. What files i need to update ? I guess its the same as RH6.1, so then try: (#)echo "1" /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward this is usually done at boot time through /etc/rc.d/rc.local or similar rc file. I must note that there are nicer ways to do this through some RH config files, but this works A-O.K. . Check out 'man sysctl', 'man sysctl.conf', and the file /etc/sysctl.conf - it's what you're looking for. -- Nadav Har'El|Wednesday, Dec 6 2000, 10 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cement mixer collided with a prison van. http://nadav.harel.org.il |Look out for sixteen hardened criminals. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Triple Triplicates (was: Re: hebrew lecture)
On Sun, Dec 17, 2000, Omer Zak wrote about "Triple Triplicates (was: Re: hebrew lecture)": Since I am subscribed to both Linux-IL, IGLU and Ivrix mailing lists, I received the Hebrew Lecture Announcement (henceforth to be referred to as HLA (TM)) in triplicate. I also received subsequent discussion in triplicate. And I am sure that several people will receive this followup in triplicate. Any PRACTICAL ideas how to cut down this triplication? Here's another message you'll be recieving 3 (or maybe even 4!) times :) In my opinion this "triplication" isn't a terrible thing - each of the mailing lists I subscribe to goes to a different folder, and the fact that a copy of the same message goes to each of these folders is very helpful in keeping a sensible message order when I read the folder of one mailing list. But if you really want to cut this triplication to zero, you (or actually the entire community) will need to choose one of two options: 1. Move all the discussion about *everything* to linux-il. This includes Hebrew, Haifa Linux club, and everything. 2. Have seperate lists for seperate issues: send Hebrew stuff to ivrix-discuss, Haifa-club stuff to that mailing list, and so on. This solution is sort-of working right now, though some people seem not to like it, and split the Hebrew discussions between linux-il and ivrix-discuss (or crosspost to both). Another solution to get rid of "triplication", a technological solution (instead of the "sociological" solution above), is to use a procmail filter to get rid of duplicate messages. The following solution is suggested in the 'procmailex' manual (see that manual for other variants): :0 Whc: msgid.lock | formail -D 4096 $HOME/msgid.cache :0 a: duplicates -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Dec 17 2000, 21 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I want to live forever or die in the http://nadav.harel.org.il |attempt. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You forgot about videophones (useful for the deaf among us)! (was: Re: adsl)
On Mon, Dec 18, 2000, Omer Zak wrote about "You forgot about videophones (useful for the deaf among us)! (was: Re: adsl)": VIDEOPHONES! VIDEOPHONES!! VIDEOPHONES!!! VIDEOPHONES They need at least 384Kbps in each direction to provide high quality pictures. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't *DSL technology allows for a fixed *total* bandwidth, and it is up to the implementation to decide how much bandwidth it reserves for each direction? The 64kbps choice was probably made because typical users don't send much upstream (forget about videophones for a moment...) and reserving, say 500mbps for upstream will mean that most of that bandwidth will be wasted. So why can't Bezek give some of the users DSL lines with a different bandwidth division? Please correct me if I have made wrong assumptions. There may be a more sinister explanation for the asymetric nature of ADSL: typical users will not sit by the computer 24/7 downloading stuff. However, if their computer is connected all the time, it's easy to set up a server that serves files 24/7, potentially using huge amounts of bandwidth. So by limiting the upstream bandwidth, they limit the amount of bandwidth you can se up! And another question? I know that videophones over ISDN exist for many years now. Does that mean that 128kbps is maybe enough for a videophone? Or does that mean the image will be too small or too fuzzy to read lips, or something? -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Dec 18 2000, 21 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Take my advice, I don't use it anyway. http://nadav.harel.org.il | = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You forgot about videophones (useful for the deaf among us)! (was: Re: adsl)
On Mon, Dec 18, 2000, Oded Arbel wrote about "Re: You forgot about videophones (useful for the deaf among us)! (was: Re: adsl)": - Original Message - You are wrong (sorry). ADSL is completly asynchronous (that's what the A stands for). I'm sorry, but you got it wrong yourself... the "A" stands for Asymmetric, not asynchronous (you probably confused it with the A in ATM. Well, at least didn't confuse it with the A in Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter" :)) I don't know what you mean that ADSL is "asynchronous". So what? Can't it still split up the frequency range in an asymmetric way between the two directions, giving more frequencies to the downstream range? Anyway, I believe that ADSL is synchronous, not asynchronous... Take a look for example at http://www.adsl.com/adsl_tutorial.html -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Dec 18 2000, 21 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cigarette: tobacco wrapped in paper, http://nadav.harel.org.il |fire at one end, and a fool at the other. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux Socket Filter
I'm trying to program something (on Linux, of course) that will need to capture arbitrary packets coming to the machine (TCP segments, for example). One obvious solution is to use libpcap [1]. However, it apears that libpcap (even the latest version) uses a very inefficient method to capture packets that match some criterion (defined using a BPF program [2, 4]) - it moves all packets to user space, and does the matching there. However, it appears that Linux provides an in-kernel BFP-like feature called "Linux Socket Filter" [3], that is included in modern kernels (e.g., it is included in Redhat 7, but probably in earlier distributions too), which seems perfect for my needs. But searching around, it seems that nobody is actually using it... Does anybody know why? Also why didn't the libpcap people use LSF on Linux, instead of their inefficient user-space solution? Is there something wrong with LSF? I'd love to hear from anybody with any experience in LSF. [1] http://www.tcpdump.org [2] http://www.tcpdump.org/papers/bpf-usenix93.pdf [3] http://www.linuxhq.com/kernel/v2.2/doc/networking/filter.txt.html [4] http://www.neosoft.com/neosoft/man/bpf.4.html Thanks, Nadav. -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Dec 20 2000, 23 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be http://nadav.harel.org.il |replaced, you can't be promoted. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux Socket Filter
On Thu, Dec 21, 2000, guy keren wrote about "Re: Linux Socket Filter": On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote: question - what types of packets exactly do you need to capture? is this using a complex filter, or a simple one? I'm trying to do something along the lines of "faking" a TCP session on one port: i.e., sending out faked packets (that's the straightforward part) and then receiving all the TCP segments destined for my port and handling them myself (without the kernel touching these packets and doing its normal processing on them). So it should be a very simple filter, something like giving "dst port 1234" to pcap_compile() and letting it generate a BPF virtual-machine code for me. This is not going to be some sort of industrial-strength my-own-TCP-stack, so I don't really need _all_ the program to run in-kernel: just the filtering part which will hopefully pass to the user-level software only a small fraction of the total traffic on the machine. also, you want the original packets to keep on traveling to their destinatin, or be captured by your software only, and not rich their original destination directly? I want only my program to get these packets (otherwise the kernel will ruin the TCP session I'm trying to make by sending back RST packets). I was thinking of doing this using Linux's firewalling code. By the way, I already started experimenting with these ideas, using LSF and ipchains, and it seems it is beginning to work quite nicely. Unfortunately, I couldn't get Redhat's LSF-patched libpcap (it's the standard libpcap they put in their system) to work (I don't know why - I even checked a libpcap program somebody else wrote, and it doesn't work!), so I had to use LSF ioctls directly, which was actually not that terrible ;) -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Dec 21 2000, 24 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A man is incomplete until he is married. http://nadav.harel.org.il |After that, he is finished. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ipchains
On Mon, Dec 25, 2000, System1 wrote about "ipchains": its not so easy , i blocked while ago port 5194 (icq login port) but today i found users still able to connect. .. and to block aol messanger (another client with security bugs which allows remote attacker take full control of users systems) What do you mean "another" client? Do you mean to imply that ICQ's client also has such a vulerability? Which version? Also, since this is a Linux group after all, you won't be surprised that many of us use non-official clients like licq or micq, which don't share any bugs with ICQ's official client. So I urge you to rethink blocking ICQ. Unless you have a very strong justification (e.g., you run a school network and the kids have been using ICQ for trafficking drugs), then the block will just annoy your users, with no real security benefit (will you also delete Microsoft Outlook from every computer when a VB virus is on the loose? Or more to the point, completely block port 25 when such a virus is spreading?) -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Dec 25 2000, 28 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A professor is one who talks in someone http://nadav.harel.org.il |else's sleep. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ipchains
On Mon, Dec 25, 2000, System1 wrote about "RE: ipchains": using ICQ remote attacker is able to make full port scan on networks behind the firewall. If ICQ gives people the ability to make scans of my servers that are behind firewall I dont want it here. its only troubles. as you can understand we are blocking ICQ not because the files option. (at least trying to block it) Moran. Saying "its only troubles" is way too simplistic. Users are using it because they need it, like it, or whatever, and as you noticed, will make various attempts to circumvent your firewall to keep it going. To them, ICQ is not trouble - to them _you_ are trouble :) I'm curious - which part of ICQ allows an attacker to do port scans on machines behind the firewall? Is this a feature (bug) of their client, or some basic feature (bug) of they way the ICQ protocol works? P.S. I'm also behind a firewall that doesn't let ICQ through. I have a simple solution: log in to a "normal" machine outside the firewall (ssh is allowed through), and run micq (a textual client). You can also try searching for an ICQ application-proxy for your firewall (I don't know if one exists, though writing one that works for the simple cases seems easy enough). -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Dec 25 2000, 28 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |My password is my dog's name. His name http://nadav.harel.org.il |is a#j!4@h, but I change it every month. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ipchains
On Mon, Dec 25, 2000, Alon Oz wrote about "Re: ipchains": The ICQ protocol reveals the real IP of the computer running the client, so even if you use GNU replacements it doesn't matter. So what? Unless you have a completely-proxy-firewall (block everything and allow only application proxies), whatever packets you let through (be they http, ftp, or icq) carry the IP address of the machine behind the firewall. But so what? If you use globally addressable IP addresses, face the consequences... ARIN or RIPE will contain your address range and attackers can use that to try the attack on every one of your addresses; Alternatively, if you use NAT hen all outgoing packets will be given one IP address anyway, and your argument is (at least as I see it) false. Case in point: I set up a firewall at home that is delibratly open to ICQ (through-server messages only). The firewall does NAT for a couple of machines, each of them with a different IP address (from a reserved area of the address space). Sure enough, _no_ packet is ever sent out of the firewall with either of the "secret" addresses, so that ICQ will only know the firewall's (publicly known) address. This "feature" opens a window for "crackers" to use various firewall penetrating/piercing techniques. This seems to me like "security by obscurity": all the crackers know is the IP address of ICQ using machines. How to use that in an attack that isn't possible by simply attacking all your addresses is beyond me. -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Dec 25 2000, 28 Kislev 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I had a lovely evening. Unfortunately, http://nadav.harel.org.il |this wasn't it. - Groucho Marx = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: spaces in filenames
On Tue, Dec 26, 2000, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote about "spaces in filenames": Hi, I see the following weird phenomenon: bash cannot recognize filenames or directories that have spaces, unless I am root/su. This is a typical example: $ mkdir "Foo Bar" $ cd Foo\ Bar/ bash: cd: Foo: No such file or directory $ su Password: # cd Foo\ Bar/ /home/oleg/tmp/Foo Bar Do you have a 'cd' function in your .bashrc? ;) It appears that in your own account (but not root), you have a cd function (e.g., that shows the current directory on a window's title), which perhaps uses $* and distroys the shell's space handling. If this is indeed the case, try to replace $* by "$@" (the quotes are important), and see if it fixes the problem. P.S. how do you see the list of functions defined in bash? In zsh you have the 'functions' builtin. Is there a similar builtin in bash? -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Dec 26 2000, 1 Tevet 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog http://nadav.harel.org.il |vendor? Make me one with everything. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
