Rob
Sorry, I can't quite leave-off, you got me thinking too much. Of
course, like everyone else, I can't help thinking about what lute I
would like next, but also, how I wish I was a little more focussed
and less dilettante (imore in the French use of this word (i.e. going
where
Dear Anthony and All,
I assume the Martin you refer to is me. I don't remember ever saying
that I thought Dowland changed from 7c to 9c without ever using an 8c,
or that any of these changes coincided with his change from TI to TO.
We simply don't know the answer to any of these questions.
On Apr 3, 2008, at 11:58 AM, Anthony Hind wrote:
Rob
Sorry, I can't quite leave-off, you got me thinking too much. Of
course, like everyone else, I can't help thinking about what lute I
would like next, but also, how I wish I was a little more focussed
and less dilettante (imore in the
Jean-Marie,
I am glad somebody agrees with me on this issue. Theis topic, 8 course
lutes, was discussed some tome ago on this list. I also have an 8 course
lute., and I like it ever so much more than a 7 course lute I once had.
ed
At 01:02 PM 4/3/2008 +0200, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote:
Should we make a Club of the 8 course proud users ?
Val (is it an half penny idea ?)
;-)))
- Original Message -
From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jean-Marie Poirier [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 7c
Martin
I think quick and rather careless reading throughof this dialoque
between yourself and Ed, brought me to the conclusion that you were
suggesting Dowland might have gone from 7c to 9c.
Nevertheless, i knew I had read something that gave me that idea:
Jean-Marie and Ed,
No derogatory remarks have come from me on the 8c. Again, I would
just like to say that if someone is hoping to play Francesco and
Dowland on the same lute, then 7c is surely the better choice, with
the 7c in D, that covers much 8c music with the possibility of
PROTECTED]; lute
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 7c at 64cms
Jean-Marie,
I am glad somebody agrees with me on this issue. Theis topic, 8 course
lutes, was discussed some tome ago on this list. I also have an 8 course
lute., and I like it ever so
Yes and often using wire-wounds, However, Jacob Heringman, if we
begin naming names, specializes in this repertoire.
Anhtony
Le 3 avr. 08 à 15:54, Nigel Solomon a écrit :
Anthony Hind wrote:
Jean-Marie and Ed,
No derogatory remarks have come from me on the 8c. Again, I
would just
No problem, Anthony. I did not feel fussed at all about this 8c business. I
quite understand what you mean, but my conclusion will nevertheless be that a
compromise will remain a compromise, i.e. something imperfect and by nature
unsatisfying... So, after that, it's only a matter of how much
I think we can agree on that, but probably not my Bank manager, who
really turns out to be my good lady wife ...
I am having trouble persuading her that a 10c might be an absolute
necessity, without which life would become utter gloom and doom.
And as you say, a compromise is always that,
@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 7c at 64cms
Jean-Marie,
I am glad somebody agrees with me on this issue. Theis topic, 8 course
lutes, was discussed some tome ago on this list. I also have an 8 course
lute., and I like it ever so much more than a 7 course lute I
Thanks Ed and David (and other comments too). Refining my comments a little,
I would say that for the solo work I would be happy with a lower pitch, so
tuning to F would be no big deal. I was worried about asking a soprano or
tenor to sing a tone lower, especially those who have already learned
They have a very good resale value :)
dt
At 07:47 PM 4/1/2008, you wrote:
Do you guys like Larry Brown's lutes? im looking at his Venere G Lute 8c.
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Rob
Although this is slightly at a side issue to your question, it could
nevertheless be helpful; I asked Jacob Heringman whether a Gerle or
Venere 7c could be used to cover some Italian and later Elizabethan
music, I wondered whether the smaller number of ribs of the Bologna
style Gerle
Rob ( and Ed) and all
Although this is slightly a side issue to your question, this
could nevertheless be helpful; I asked Jacob Heringman whether a
Gerle or Venere 7c could be used to cover some Italian and later
Elizabethan music, I wondered whether the smaller number of ribs of
On 02/04/2008, LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
PS: the shoulder is not troubling you anymore, especially with the new
theorbo?
Thanks for asking, David. Oddly, or not, I have less trouble with the
theorbo. Must be using the muscles in a different way. I now play about an
hour a day, in
Confession time: I was originally thinking of a 7c, then played Malcolm
Prior's 10c (before it was shipped to Germany), and decided on one of those,
at 64cms. Now I'm thinking 7c again...I drive myself and everyone around me
crazy sometimes. So what do I want it for? I don't have a lute in
A couple of folks have written to me off-list suggesting an 8c. Sorry, not
interested. Just don't like them. Neither one thing or another. I'll go
either 7 or 10. Probably 7.
Thanks for the suggestions, nonetheless!
Cheers,
Rob
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
Why is that so, Rob ? Did one of them bite you when you were a child ;-) ?
Best,
Jean-Marie
=== 02-04-2008 13:38:45 ===
A couple of folks have written to me off-list suggesting an 8c. Sorry, not
interested. Just don't like them. Neither one thing or another. I'll go
either 7 or 10.
Dear Anthony, Rob, et al.,
My 10c is indeed at 67cm, but it always lived between 392 415; of course
with synthetics you could tune a lute like this up to 440 - this is why such
a lute is a practical (if sometimes inauthentic and less than musically
ideal) solution for those who have to accompany
Rob
That is the second time a message has shot forth without me clicking
on the send button. I don't know what is up.
I had begun to say .
I entirely agree with you. The 8c is not a good solution. I am just
wondering whether, if you wanted more Dowland than Franceso, a 9/10 c
lute might
Benjamin and Rob
Oups, sorry Benjamin, I am afraid I got part of that wrong. I think
this confusion came from what Martin Haycock said to me about using
such a lute as a G lute at 440Hz. He was obviously talking in general.
You may also have called it a G lute, but G at 392 presumably.
Jean-Marie
Rob was wanting to find a compromise that would allow him to play 6c
italian Renaissance music as well as late Dowland. A 7c can manage
that repertoire, but I think the extra course of an 8c would give too
confused a sound for 6c music.
Just as Rob is doing now, I was
Anthony and Rob,
Why such a disdain for 8 c. lutes ? I have one and will soon have a new one
from David Van Edwards and I love the instrument : well-balanced, convenient
for most of the repertoire from 1560 to 1620. It puzzles me to see you reject
is as you do...
Of course it doesn't deprive
Thanks Anthony for these precisions. My original message seems to have reached
the list with some delay, which doesn't really matter anyway ;-) !
All the best,
Jean-Marie
=== 02-04-2008 17:01:01 ===
Jean-Marie
Rob was wanting to find a compromise that would allow him to play 6c
I don't recommend 8 courses
9 courses would be a good choice for Dowland
7 and 9 would cover almost all of the pieces you mention, and is
better for the very early Dowland pieces, plus the chromatic pieces.
Isn't there a Star Trek character named 7 of 9? Surely it is a sign.
I think the 9 course
Thanks to everyone for their input. I've decided instead to get a Fender
Stratocaster - covers most things from Francesco to Jimi, and costs a lot
less.
Jean-Marie - I used to have an 8c (seems like a thousand years ago) on which
(at the advice of Jacob Lindberg) I swaped the bottom two courses
Why play a single manual harpsichord, when two is more?
It is a good question, is there more essential lutiness in a niner?
I think so. but that is subjective.
Historically, you can argue pretty persuasively for 9, but there sure
were ten course instruments as well.
Also, is a good 10c better
On Apr 2, 2008, at 2:27 PM, David Tayler wrote:
...Historically, you can argue pretty persuasively for 9, but there
sure
were ten course instruments as well.
Also, is a good 10c better than a bad 9c, if makers have more
experience with 10?
...which one is right for the music?
For
Fine with me, David. That's a deal ! ;-)
Jean-Marie
=== 02-04-2008 21:05:30 ===
I have a suggestion that will solve all our problems. How about
this: on odd-numbered years the 8- course will be proclaimed the
best all-purpose renaissance lute, and on even-numbered years the
Rob,
If you want G at 440, 59 cm is the longest mensur you can have, or you will
be upset with premature string breakage. If you want 64 cm, the treble
should be at F.
Of course, the limit can be pushed much higher for nylon or other
synthetics. But for gut, in our modern times we seem to
Dear Ed and All:
So if you were stringing an 11- or 13-course baroque lute in gut, and the
string length was 72 or 73 cm, would you pitch the first string at E-flat
(A=415)?
Cheers,
Jim
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Martin,
What about the shape of the lute? Does it alter the sound? I mean for
instance, a Hieber shape versus a Frei.
Regards.
2008/4/1, Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Rob,
If you want G at 440, 59 cm is the longest mensur you can have, or you
will
be upset with premature string
E at 415 is about the same as F at 392. I would probably go at that, or
slightly lower in pitch.
ed
At 08:24 PM 4/1/2008 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Ed and All:
So if you were stringing an 11- or 13-course baroque lute in gut, and
the string length was 72 or 73 cm, would you
Yes, the shape does alter the sound of an instrument, but that is not the
topic. It really does not matter what the model is, because the topic is
gut trebles, and how high we can go with pitch.
A 70 cm Hieber or Frei baroque lute would have a difficult time keeping on
a gut treble at F at a
On Apr 1, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Michael Gillespie wrote:
Do you guys like Larry Brown's lutes? im looking at his Venere G
Lute 8c.
I have four of Larry's instruments: 10-course Venere (C36), 13-
course Edlinger, 14-course archlute and Lacote model Romantic
guitar.. I've not been
64 is a bit long in the tooth for 440.
You can get the gut up to pitch barely but it is a stretch.
But if you want it for Dowland, F is very good both singer and solo wise.
The tessatura of the songs is such that a significant number phonate
better at 392,
although some of the nice ones lie low,
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