On 19 Sep 2020, at 8:39, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
As far as I know there are already obvious security holes in Python 2
if you need to use TLS, especially on Mac. Python 2 is not up to
current security recommendations with respect to SSL and TLS versions,
and I suspect not with respect to
On 9/20/20 7:40 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
> Yes. That means that the Mailman Cabal enjoys working with me and
> values what I do, and that's all it means. By the way, I'm not sure
> why you keep mentioning the Mailman Cabal, There Is No Cabal. ;-)
Technically, mailman-cabal is just the
On Sun, 2020-09-20 at 23:40 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
>
> On Sun, 2020-09-20 at 18:23 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > > I imagine ARC support is something Jim Popovitch would like to have.
>
> > You imagine wrong.
>
> OK, so you don't
Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
> You're on the Mailman Cabal
Yes. That means that the Mailman Cabal enjoys working with me and
values what I do, and that's all it means. By the way, I'm not sure
why you keep mentioning the Mailman Cabal, There Is No Cabal. ;-)
>> I imagine ARC
On Sun, 2020-09-20 at 18:23 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> I wrote:
>
> > > >> I'm pretty sure that at least for now I[1] can configure a
> > > >> system to run Mailman 2 so that none of the above matters
>
> "None of the above" includes other crypto.
>
> > > > I'm pretty sure that's
I wrote:
> > >> I'm pretty sure that at least for now I[1] can configure a
> > >> system to run Mailman 2 so that none of the above matters
"None of the above" includes other crypto.
> > > I'm pretty sure that's pure FUD.
I do not agree. Besides being able to talk SMTP (and some people
On Sat, 19 Sep 2020 at 13:07, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >> I'm pretty sure that at least for now I[1] can configure a system to
> >> run Mailman 2 so that none of the above matters (eg, have the web
> >> server and MTA speak TLS so that Mailman doesn't have to), but I'm not
> >> confident that will
On 9/19/2020 11:50 AM, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
I'm pretty sure that's pure FUD. I'm not the expert on mailman that most
of you are, but I can think of no reason for mailman itself to ever speak
HTTP or SMTP, and therefore no reason for it to need to do TLS. I'd be
very surprised at anyone
On 9/19/20 9:50 AM, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
> I'm probably going to regret getting involved in this conversation, but ...
>
> On Sat, 19 Sep 2020 at 08:48, Stephen J. Turnbull <
> turnbull.stephen...@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure that at least for now I[1] can configure a system
I'm probably going to regret getting involved in this conversation, but ...
On Sat, 19 Sep 2020 at 08:48, Stephen J. Turnbull <
turnbull.stephen...@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that at least for now I[1] can configure a system to
> run Mailman 2 so that none of the above matters
Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users writes:
> I am in no way a programmer - but as I understand it, Python 2 can
> live alongside Python 3 without any problems.
True.
> The EOL declaration for Python 2 does NOT mean that Python 2 will
> stop working on the date the publishers announced.
Matthew Pounsett writes:
> If someone was going to undertake a rewrite of Postorius, using a
> different web development framework (e.g. Flask, but pretty much
> anything that isn't Django) would at least remove one major moving
> part from the install process.
Rewrites of Postorius or
On 9/17/2020 3:59 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
... The writing has been on the wall
for Python2 for nearly ten years. The EOL date has already been
extended five years. It's time to let it go.
The big concern du jour in science community is: can you take your
scripts from 10 years ago and
On 2020-09-17 14:34, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Of course I do not want do move anyone away from Mailman. If Phil absolutely
> wants to retire Python 2 on his machine(s),
And that is precisely my motivation. The writing has been on the wall
for Python2 for nearly ten years.
On 2020-09-17 13:59, Christian F Buser wrote:
> I am in no way a programmer - but as I understand it, Python 2 can live
> alongside Python 3 without any problems.
Oh, indeed, it totally can. And right now, it does, on two of my three
Linux boxes. I've managed to get Python2 completely off the
On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 14:56 -0400, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> On 9/17/20 2:27 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 14:15 -0400, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> > Absolutely not. I'm intrigued by the idea of mailman-core (1/3 of mm3)
> > with a lightweight web-based GUI in
On 9/17/20 2:27 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 14:15 -0400, Brian Carpenter wrote:
Absolutely not. I'm intrigued by the idea of mailman-core (1/3 of mm3)
with a lightweight web-based GUI in front of it. But, to date, that
doesn't exist. I also don't see the
Hello Brian Carpenter. On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:20:06 -0400, you wrote:
> I am sure Christian also meant to include me in their list of other
> choices: https://harmonylists.com. At least I still offer Mailman 3
> howbeit as a SaaS provider and not encourage a fellow mailman user on
> a mailman
On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 14:15 -0400, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> On 9/17/20 1:45 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> > That's kind of my point. mm2 works for me and my use, I'd much rather
> > prefer to keep it working than to rip it out and replace it, including
> > installed and maintaining
On 9/17/20 1:59 PM, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:
I am in no way a programmer - but as I understand it, Python 2 can live
alongside Python 3 without any problems.
The EOL declaration for Python 2 does NOT mean that Python 2 will stop working
on the date the publishers announced.
On 9/17/20 1:45 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
That's kind of my point. mm2 works for me and my use, I'd much rather
prefer to keep it working than to rip it out and replace it, including
installed and maintaining a database, a framework, a new setup of custom
admin scripts unique to
Hello Phil Stracchino. On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:37:08 -0400, you wrote:
> .. Except for the part where it requires me to keep Python 2 installed
> beyond its second, extended, we absolutely mean it this time, no more
> extensions, declared EOL.
>
> It's not that I need anything Mailman 2 doesn't
On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 09:07 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 9/17/20 8:04 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 07:54 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > > Forward to where?
> >
> > Oh the irony of you asking that question. :) If we go back a year,
> > there were STARK
On 2020-09-17 12:07, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If Mailman 2.1 meets their needs now, why won't it continue to do so as
> it is? (Aside: I still sometimes use Adobe Reader 9 for Linux on my
> desktop even though it has been unsupported and unavailable from Adobe
> for years.)
Weighing in on this
On 9/17/2020 9:24 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote:
FYI, here is a decent comparison of Django vs Flask:
https://hackr.io/blog/flask-vs-django
In the article, this was said:
"Django is suited for bigger projects that need a lot of functionality.
For simpler projects, the features might be an
On 9/17/20 8:04 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 07:54 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> Forward to where?
>
> Oh the irony of you asking that question. :) If we go back a year,
> there were STARK warnings about the EOL of mm2. Blatant EOL warnings.
> To me, a
On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 07:54 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 9/17/20 7:36 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> > Here's my POV, if mm2 can (and it appears to me that it
> > can somewhat easily) be fixed to use py3 then all the installed bases of
> > mm2 don't have to
On 9/17/20 10:36 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
Would it though? Is that conjecture or based on available data that can
be analyzed? Here's my POV, if mm2 can (and it appears to me that it
can somewhat easily) be fixed to use py3 then all the installed bases of
mm2 don't have to
On 9/17/20 7:36 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Here's my POV, if mm2 can (and it appears to me that it
> can somewhat easily) be fixed to use py3 then all the installed bases of
> mm2 don't have to learn/deal/secure/test/manage/deal with a REST API
> and/or Flask, etc.
Or they can
On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 07:13 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 9/17/20 6:54 AM, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
> > If someone was going to undertake a rewrite of Postorius, using a different
> > web development framework (e.g. Flask, but pretty much anything that isn't
> > Django) would at least remove one
On 9/17/20 9:54 AM, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
If someone was going to undertake a rewrite of Postorius, using a different
web development framework (e.g. Flask, but pretty much anything that isn't
Django) would at least remove one major moving part from the install
process.
We went with Laravel
On 9/17/20 7:20 AM, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
>
> Yep. Sorry, that wasn't meant to sound like criticism ...
And it wasn't taken as such. I'm only trying to reinforce the idea that
there are opportunities for making a different MM 3 web UI that would be
less complex to install, and working on
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 10:14, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 9/17/20 6:54 AM, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
> >
> > If someone was going to undertake a rewrite of Postorius, using a
> different
> > web development framework (e.g. Flask, but pretty much anything that
> isn't
> > Django) would at least remove
On 9/17/20 6:54 AM, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
>
> If someone was going to undertake a rewrite of Postorius, using a different
> web development framework (e.g. Flask, but pretty much anything that isn't
> Django) would at least remove one major moving part from the install
> process.
I have said
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 07:22, Stephen J. Turnbull <
turnbull.stephen...@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
>
> Replacing Postorius with a Mailman 2 lookalike would probabaly be a
> nearly complete rewrite. Of course you can reuse the HTML and perhaps
> the page-generating code, but all of the "business
Cleaned up the @s.
Jonathan M writes:
> What would be fun is a “Mailman 2 lookalike” Python 3 user
> interface for Mailman 3, complete with Times New Roman and Courier.
The archiver part would be relatively easy to do; Pipermail is
probably fairly easy to disentangle from Mailman 2. I can't
On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 18:47 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
> > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 02:34 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
> > > You don't need to have a title, an @mailman email address, or a commit
> bit
> > > to do any of that.
> > >
> >
Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
> On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 02:34 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > You don't need to have a title, an @mailman email address, or a commit bit
> > to do any of that.
> >
> > You just do it.
>
> Exactly! But that is not really what this convo is
On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 02:34 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
> You're right. If we're going to reopen the Mailman 2 branch to new
> features, there should be a much larger body. So where is it? Mark
> and I are not special. We're merely here every day, we have acquired
> a lot of knowledge
Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
> Wait, so you do want to continue to support mm2 users, but you don't
> want to support them in any fashion if someone else other than you and
> Mark manages just the new features?
That's right.
Currently Mark and I have a tolerable balance between
> On 16 Sep 2020, at 07:07, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
> I think that will be pretty challenging actually. At least, it was when I
> did it years ago. And unless you’re *really* careful to avoid the temptation
> to “fix" things along the way, you’ll probably end up with something not too
> far
I admit I haven’t been following this thread very closely, and don’t intend to
do so. (There’s a reason I turned over project management a few years ago :).
Just a couple of points.
> On Sep 15, 2020, at 18:11, Brian Carpenter wrote:
>
> When you say py3, are you talking about python 3? Are
On Tue, 2020-09-15 at 21:11 -0400, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> On 9/15/20 8:18 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> > A small group, including myself, are planning to present a proposal. We
> > are in the early stage of defining what that will involve, but we are
> > all committed. I've
On 9/15/20 8:18 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
A small group, including myself, are planning to present a proposal. We
are in the early stage of defining what that will involve, but we are
all committed. I've also, as you've probably seen on lp, been focused
on pushing my py3
On Tue, 2020-09-15 at 16:51 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 9/15/20 12:41 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> > I demanded nothing. I was told by Mark that I would need to apply for
> > all those perks (sans the Cabal seat) when all I offered to do was
> >
On 9/15/20 8:59 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
>
> I went to the last link at the bottom of this list's posts and clicked
> on the (first) item with the same Subject as this email. I paged down
> into that long page to find the single post that I wanted to link to.
> After a while I
On 9/15/20 12:41 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
>
> I demanded nothing. I was told by Mark that I would need to apply for
> all those perks (sans the Cabal seat) when all I offered to do was
> support/test/debug/evaluate/approve new features in launchpad.
I told you to make a
On 9/15/20 4:39 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
If only this were a meeting conducted under Robert's Rules, the Chair
would have invoked cloture, or at least referred this issue back to
committee. All interested parties have made their arguments,
positions have hardened, and debate has become
If only this were a meeting conducted under Robert's Rules, the Chair
would have invoked cloture, or at least referred this issue back to
committee. All interested parties have made their arguments,
positions have hardened, and debate has become unrevealing.
Insofar as anything ever dies on
On Wed, 2020-09-16 at 03:51 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
>
> > I personally think that you, Stephen, are digging high and low to find
> > any reason for Mailman2 to not continue forward under the Mailman
> > umbrella.
>
> Digging?? Wake up, Jim!
Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
> I personally think that you, Stephen, are digging high and low to find
> any reason for Mailman2 to not continue forward under the Mailman
> umbrella.
Digging?? Wake up, Jim! It's *official policy* that Mailman 2 will
not receive new features under
On 9/15/20 11:59 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
Ok, that makes sense. I wonder if we can get him to license/allow a copy
for use by Python.org.
Only if they agree to use it on a server on my network with no root
access allowed. Since Affinity and Empathy are not python apps, I
On Tue, 2020-09-15 at 08:45 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 9/15/20 4:40 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> > I'd use the new MM3 archive of this list to link to your posts, but
> > interacting with it is an abysmal time waste. At a minimum someone
> > should put Brian's HK replacement
On 9/15/20 4:40 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
>
> I'd use the new MM3 archive of this list to link to your posts, but
> interacting with it is an abysmal time waste. At a minimum someone
> should put Brian's HK replacement on python.org?
Brian's Affinity and Empathy are his
On Tue, 2020-09-15 at 16:10 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
>
> > See Stephens previous comments about how there was no way he could
> > or would work with anyone working on mm2 because it was against his
> > objectives,
>
> Correction: I will not
Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
> See Stephens previous comments about how there was no way he could
> or would work with anyone working on mm2 because it was against his
> objectives,
Correction: I will not work with someone who repeatedly misrepresents my
positions in the way that
Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users writes:
> As long as cPanel bundles MM2, I need from time to time some
> support from the real experts. And even if MM2 would not be
> improved at all in the future, I hope that this list will stay
> alive.
The existence of this list, and of support for
Steven Jones writes:
> I dont know what planet this user lives on,
Please, don't. This conversation is painful enough on all sides.
> > Speaking as _a_ user, my requirements are simple:
> > 1. MM2 must continue to work,
> > 2. support must continue to be provided."
Read literally,
HI,
I dont know what planet this user lives on,
"> Speaking as _a_ user, my requirements are simple:
> 1. MM2 must continue to work,
> 2. support must continue to be provided."
but really? try telling say Oracle that they MUST continue to support Oracle
8.0, LOL.
This is open source
On 9/13/2020 7:20 PM, dean.coll...@insightplanners.com wrote:
Yay! Most useless, uninformative post of the day!
Are you reading he same mailing list I do? And if yes, the follow-up
question: did you notice the threads on getting MM2 to work on centos 7,
RedHat 8, and did you ever stop to
Yay! Most useless, uninformative post of the day!
Quoting Dmitri Maziuk :
On 9/13/2020 6:17 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
Ironically, I was writing in support of Mark's and Stephen's
position on the matter. As a member of Mark's cohort, the odds are
I'll never need a "New! Improved!" MM2, or
On 9/13/2020 6:17 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
Ironically, I was writing in support of Mark's and Stephen's position on
the matter. As a member of Mark's cohort, the odds are I'll never need
a "New! Improved!" MM2, or MM3.
You wish: at some point "they" will upgrade the hardware and/or the OS
to
As it turns out, as I was hitting 'Send', Christian F Buser posted:
I am just a user of a Mailman 2 installation on cPanel. And I am reading here
because i get some answers to my questions and help if something goes wrong.
As long as cPanel bundles MM2, I need from time to time some support
On 9/13/20 12:39 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
>
> Speaking as _a_ user, my requirements are simple:
> 1. MM2 must continue to work,
> 2. support must continue to be provided.
>
> Any proposal that jeopardizes those fundamentals must be rejected.
>
> By "support", I mean everything except new
On 9/13/20 3:39 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
I am loathe, as a lowly list administrator (on cPanel hosts, at that)
to participate in the clash of titans, but this _is_ the
"mailman-users" discussion list. It is somewhat distressing to see so
little participation by the Mailman2 users, who will be
I am loathe, as a lowly list administrator (on cPanel hosts, at that)
to participate in the clash of titans, but this _is_ the
"mailman-users" discussion list. It is somewhat distressing to see so
little participation by the Mailman2 users, who will be most affected
by any changes in its
Hi all
I am just a user of a Mailman 2 installation on cPanel. And I am reading here
because i get some answers to my questions and help if something goes wrong.
As long as cPanel bundles MM2, I need from time to time some support from the
real experts. And even if MM2 would not be improved
On 9/13/20 9:29 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
>
> Just what is the Cabal willing to accept in a proposal?
Try us and see?
My own opinion is I would want a commitment to take over what I
currently do including making releases on Launchpad, distributing them
to sourceforge and
On 9/13/2020 11:01 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
(really just who is the Cabal these days?)
There Is No Lumber Cartel.
HTH, HAND
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to
On Sun, 2020-09-13 at 09:16 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 9/13/20 9:01 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> > What I want to hear from the Cabal is that there is support and
> > appreciation for efforts by others to carry on with mm2 in any direction
> > it takes them and that their
On 9/13/20 9:01 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
>
> What I want to hear from the Cabal is that there is support and
> appreciation for efforts by others to carry on with mm2 in any direction
> it takes them and that their representation in the Cabal is assured.
So make a proposal to
On Sun, 2020-09-13 at 15:36 +, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> OK, I'm back and more or less caught up so I'm ready to continue this
> discussion.
>
> In his initial post in this thread, Jim suggests that he and others want to
> join the Mailman Coders team on Launchpad in order to commit to the
OK, I'm back and more or less caught up so I'm ready to continue this
discussion.
In his initial post in this thread, Jim suggests that he and others want to
join the Mailman Coders team on Launchpad in order to commit to the Mailman 2.1
branch there. In a thread on the merge proposal that
Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> On Sun, 2020-08-30 at 14:29 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > I wrote a long screed, full of piss and vinegar. But on reflection,
> > clearly nobody is reading what I wrote earlier, so let's try pithy and
> > dry. It's still long. :-(
> >
> > Chip
On Sun, 2020-08-30 at 14:29 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> I wrote a long screed, full of piss and vinegar. But on reflection,
> clearly nobody is reading what I wrote earlier, so let's try pithy and
> dry. It's still long. :-(
>
> Chip Davis writes:
>
> > OK guys, what's really going on
Thank you, Steve, for your thoughtful and measured reply. I have a
clearer picture of the ramifications of Jim's proposal, to the degree
that he has specified it. The longer the thread festered, the fewer
salient points were made, so I can't say that I support it or not.
But it's not my
I wrote a long screed, full of piss and vinegar. But on reflection,
clearly nobody is reading what I wrote earlier, so let's try pithy and
dry. It's still long. :-(
Chip Davis writes:
> OK guys, what's really going on here?
I don't know. I can tell you I'm done with Jim. You'll have to ask
I'm done, Jim.
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On 8/28/20 11:47 PM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>
> If the existing
> gnu-mailman team doesn't want new members working on old code, and
> that's the way it sounds, just say so and give the blessing for a code
> fork.
We never said that. We only asked that these potential new members
actually ask to
On Fri, 2020-08-28 at 23:47 -0700, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>
> Or... it's pretty likely that MM2 maintenance, and maybe improvements, will
> continue in some fashion. The question is whether that's under the auspices
> of the gnu-mailman project or in a fork. If the existing gnu-mailman team
>
For clarity- As I understand, given the language differences MM3 was a
complete rewrite of MM2, so the only common parts are some features, the use
of python (at all), and the name. Yes? Therefore anyone working on MM2 isn't
impeding the work on MM3, especially if they weren't going to work on
OK guys, what's really going on here?
Stephen and Mark, you are both thoughtful writers and crucial members
of the Mailman team. Jim, you have made a generous offer that seems
to have the support of the Mailman 2 user community, at least.
Is this about turf? Is there something about Jim's
On Sat, 2020-08-29 at 03:53 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
>
> > Again with the "Jim's team". Those other guys, that other group, them
> > folks That's nauseating to hear from you Stephen.
>
> I use the word "team" to describe people who work
Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
> Again with the "Jim's team". Those other guys, that other group, them
> folks That's nauseating to hear from you Stephen.
I use the word "team" to describe people who work together closely to
achieve common goals. That's just English. The team
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 2:37 PM Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users
wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> A couple of days ago, over on the MAILOP mailinglist, there was a long
> thread titled 'Mailman confirmation email denial of service'. This
> detailed some of the problems we've all seen with Mailman
On 2020-08-26 21:28:30 (+0800), Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
So, I have volunteered to spearhead an effort to add one or two more
people to the Mailman Coders group[2] in order to vet and approve new
features that continue the long tradition of providing value to
Mailman
2.x. Who's
On 8/27/2020 12:41 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
On 2020-08-27 13:15, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
3. Captchas are a worst practice in security and should never be used.
They can be and are defeated at will by any adversary who wants to
trouble themselves to do so. They're also user-hostile. There are
On 2020-08-27 13:15, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> 3. Captchas are a worst practice in security and should never be used.
> They can be and are defeated at will by any adversary who wants to
> trouble themselves to do so. They're also user-hostile. There are much
> better methods available for
Phil Stracchino writes:
> On 2020-08-27 12:30, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> I'm still not clear on what you (Jim) are really wanting to do. I may be
>> wrong on this, but I don't see any distros picking up new versions of
>> Mailman 2.1 unless they come from some 'official' source and so far, the
>>
On 8/27/2020 3:27 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Dmitri Maziuk writes:
> The point was that the argument about MM3 having a long life expectancy
> "because python 3" is not in any way, shape, or form supported by the
> history of the python programming language to date.
*chortle* *In
> On 8/27/2020 9:54 AM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
>> Currently there is no active ebuild for mailman in Gentoo. 2.1.33 has
>> been masked, there is no 2.1.34, and 3.3.0 and 3.3.1 exist but have not
>> yet been marked stable or unmasked.
>
> FWIW, FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE amd64 has 2.1.34 in both the
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 09:28:30AM -0400, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> So, I have volunteered to spearhead an effort to add one or two more
> people to the Mailman Coders group[2] in order to vet and approve new
> features that continue the long tradition of providing value to Mailman
On Thu, 2020-08-27 at 10:05 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 8/27/20 3:29 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> > There is sooo much to respond to, but in order to stay on focus...
> > Brian, you fail to identify the problem, in fact you mischaracterized
> > it. Mark is essentially
On 8/27/2020 9:54 AM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
Currently there is no active ebuild for mailman in Gentoo. 2.1.33 has
been masked, there is no 2.1.34, and 3.3.0 and 3.3.1 exist but have not
yet been marked stable or unmasked.
FWIW, FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE amd64 has 2.1.34 in both the pkg repo and
On Thu, 2020-08-27 at 09:30 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 8/27/20 3:41 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-08-27 at 17:41 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > > The question for you is what benefit there is to anyone in having
> > > Mailman 2 maintenance inside the
On 8/27/20 3:29 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
>
> There is sooo much to respond to, but in order to stay on focus...
> Brian, you fail to identify the problem, in fact you mischaracterized
> it. Mark is essentially gatekeeping. He is saying that he wants to
> continue to control
On 2020-08-27 12:30, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I'm still not clear on what you (Jim) are really wanting to do. I may be
> wrong on this, but I don't see any distros picking up new versions of
> Mailman 2.1 unless they come from some 'official' source and so far, the
> GNU-Mailman project is the only
On 8/27/20 3:34 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
>
> Stephen, just who do you think did the DMARC research and work in MM2?
> Phil, Mark, care to chime in on this?
The original DMARC mitigation work was contributed by Franck Martin of
LinkedIn and was in Mailman as a site optional
On 8/27/20 3:41 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> On Thu, 2020-08-27 at 17:41 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>>
>> The question for you is what benefit there is to anyone in having
>> Mailman 2 maintenance inside the Mailman Project going forward.
>
> You mean inside the Mailman3
On Thu, 2020-08-27 at 17:27 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> MM3, on the other hand, not only has three more or less active
> developers, it also has frequent releases including new features as
> well as bug fixes.
That could still be happening for MM2 if not for some imaginary line in
the
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