Subject: [Mpls] re: Death of Minneapolis Man in Custody ruled a Homicide
Is t possible that the same stereo-typing that exists and is prevelant in our society today, is actually staeling the headlines on this issue?? At least by my estimation, to be treated fairly (in society), one must stand firmly on the principle that they will in fact, act judge, and think fairly on matters such as these. Until a high-tech comes-up with a robotic that is capable of performing (for society) unbiased policing, we're stuck with humans. Is it realistic to think that yes, indeed, some of the police force acts both inappropriately, and in a discriminate manner? Of course, they're humans. Is it acceptable?? Of course not. If in fact the actions of these officers prove to be more than an error of judgement, they should be convicted and spend time in prison. Realistic change can ONLY occur through thoughtful, progressive actions (such as those championed by current 3rd Ward candidate Don Samuels), that precipitate change. Don has pushed hard to bring about meaningful change on this matter by taking to task the Police Chief's inability to recruit and train a force that more closely resembles the ethnic composition of the neighborhood it polices. Why is this important?? Because the set of circumstances we're currently faced wit (again, as a society) dictate, that there is no trust between a predominately white police force in a predominately african american neighborhood. It's easy to cry for justice, when an injustice occurs. It's much tougher to roll-up your sleeves and try to remedy the circumstances that cause the injustice. Dennis Plante 2705 James Av N middle-aged white guy in north MPLS _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] (no subject)
iRoxana wrote: Re: [Mpls] Minneapolis pedestrian killed -- but no charges, no investigation? From: Ghost Subject: Re: [Mpls] Minneapolis pedestrian killed -- but no charges, no investigation? Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 08:28:35 -0800 The tenor of this post underscores the issue that many of the people of Mpls do not trust the police, while others do not recognize that the roots of the fear and mistrust are quite real. Many Mpls residents have seen crimes ignored selectively, and the law enforced selectively, and they're sick of it. Yes - there is an insinuation that the system is failing to protect the people of Mpls on the basis of race and economic status. The mistrust that Mr. Bowman is reacting to is born out of police ignoring the 911 calls of mainly poor, non-white residents whose garages have been broken into, whose property has been stolen, destroyed, or vandalized, and whose streets or alleys are home to hookers and dealers. It is born out of police shootings of the mentally ill or young people who posed no significant threat to those who gunned them down, most of whom are poor and non-white. It is born out of incident after incident of excessive force when police have broken into the wrong home, or have injured innocents - mostly poor, non-white people - who have happened to be in the wrong place when the police came knocking. That mistrust is only furthered by the lack of civilian review, whitewash of incident after incident by police, and police statements that underscore the police's willingness to judge and unwillingness to affirm the human worth of those who have been shot or injured - such as in the flack following Natalie Johnson Lee's National Night Out message months ago. Under the circumstances, questioning whether the police are taking seriously the death of a woman who has been mowed down on the street is fairly mild, when news sources don't indicate any followup or concerns by the police. It often seems that to raise police concern about a death that didn't occur in a Hollywood crime-blockbuster fashion, it takes a heck of a lot of agitating by family, friends, and community. If the death occurred at police hands, it definitely takes a lot of agitating in this town before citizens' concerns are responded to. At this point, there may not be enough to go on to know whether this incident will be given all the attention it deserves from police. However, understandable concerns are raised by the community early because Minneapolitans have come to feel that if they are not proactive in raising questions up front, an incident may well not be given the attention it deserves. Several days or weeks down the road, the best opportunity to investigate may be lost. Mr. Bowman writes "If indeed the police haven't done the job they are instructed to do, then questions should be asked." That's too late - we all know the adage about locking the barn doors after the horses are stolen. The fact is, the police have lost the trust of many of the citizens of Mpls, and they will have to earn that trust back as residents see job after job well done. It doesn't come with the badge. Roxana Orrell Central /i Without a doubt everyone that has lived in Minneapolis (as is the case w/ all cities) can cite incidences they've witnessed that give the perception (either real or imagined) of at the very least, police impropriety. However, everyone that has lived in Minneapolis or any other large city, has also experienced incidents where police officers have acted above and beyond the call of duty. Speaking as an indivdual that hashad a fair amount of exposure in dealing with the news media both internationally (the exxon valdez oil spill) and locally (the august "melee" in Jordan), I have found that,balanced, objective, reporting is the exception, and not the norm. As long as the "bottom-line" of the corporation that owns the news paper is at stake, this will not change. Once again, I don't for a moment think that the Mpls police are perfect. There are changes that could and should be made. However, on the flip side, I don't think they're quilty of everything they're accused of. Dennis Plante North Minneapolis Resident Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren
Interestingly enough, I find myself supporting Don Samuels in the upcoming 3rd ward election. In many ways, you could probably not find two more different indivduals than Don and myself if you tried. I am white, he is african american. I was born into acceptance in this country, he's an immigrant that has had to work very hard for everything he has. Most of my reality related to the suffering of those less fortunate has been formed through what I read and see in the media, Don has actually LIVED the injustice and suffering. What swayed my opinion to become an ardent supporter of Don Samuels? The fact that I truly believe he has a MUCH more broad understanding of the obstacles and issues thathave kept the 3rd ward from becoming the greatcommunity that it could and should be, than does any other candidate. While there aremany candidates running in the upcoming primary election that would, I am sure, do a capable job, I feelI am very fortunate in having the oppotunity to cast my vote for an individual that will finally be able tobring the understanding, wisdom and conviction necessary to this elected position. I have met only a handfull of people in my life that Iget the same feeling from. This guy is indeed the "real deal". Dennis Plante Jordan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:44:50 -0500 message3.txt Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren
Shawne: I'd really like to understand the motivation for your inquiry. If I'm to understand you correctly, the question you'd like answered by Anne McCandless is whether or not Don Samuels is a person of substance, or a media hype? I am somewhat dismayed by the fact that you would ask for a third person opinion (and I'm assuming here) from someone that you really don't know, to help you come to such a serious conclusion. The future leadership of the 3rd ward hangs in the balance of this election. If you have reservations, or concerns regarding Don Samuels' substance, I suggest you p/u the phone and talk to Don, as this would allowyou to form youropinion on this issue from good information - first-hand... For what it is worth, Anne is dead-on target in her explanation. Don, along w/ several other board members, stopped participating in JACC because of their belief that JACC was too focused on housing related issues (check the expenditures for like neighborhoods for NRP phase I) and not adressing some significant and serious issues within our community. To his credit, Don along with numerous other residents played an integral part in recently seating several board members (on JACC) that DO realize that there is much more work to be done (in our community) than just rehab houses. Further, Don, again along with many others from within our community has put forth a tremendous amount of VOLUNTEER time over the last year in an effort to bring a highly fractionalized neighborhood together. We are currently on the verge of being able to FINALLY unite JACC, JLF and theJordan Jam into a single (much more powerful) focused entity, serving a much wider range of issues than any of them did in the past, separately. If your yardstick for measuring a candidates worthiness (for city council office) is measured by the sheer number of volunteer hours that they have dedicated to their community in recent history, Don would win the election in a landslide. In fact, if the truth were known, I would hazard the guess that in terms of "true" volunteer contributions to a community,the other candidates would probably rather not have to measure themselves against Don. Dennis Plante Jordan Community From: "Anne McCandless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Shawne FitzGerald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 12:52:05 -0600 Mr. Fitzgerald, I am sorry I did not reply to you sooner, but some of us have other things going on today. To say the least, Don Samuels has been an asset to this community. Furthermore, I know that his commitment started long before this campaign was even thought of and will continue whether he wins or loses this election. Like many people, myself included, Don got frustrated with JACC as it was in recent years. It had become wrapped up in NRP and real estate matters and seemed to many of us, to not respond to the needs of the community. Through the work of many people, Don being one of the most active, we picketed against the drug dealers, started a community garden and formed our own neighborhood organization, the Jordan Livability Committee. When the riot occurred, Don had the guts to stand up to outsiders and questions their claims to represent Jordan since they didn't even live here or belong to any neighborhood organizations. For those of you who are not familiar with the dynamics of the African American community, this may seem like a small thing to do. In fact, it was not. It took allot of guts and the risk of being ostracized by the community. It also gave others in the community the courage to stand up and speak out. While we could not stop the county from paying $250 per bag to City, Inc to pick up trash along 26th Ave, I bet they will think twice before doing something like that again without talking to the community first. We have now joined the Livability Forum, JACC and the Jordan Jam into what we hope, will be one more inclusive organization which will speak with an even louder voice. Unlike many who gave up on JACC and organizations like it, Don looked for ways to improve and change. He is also willing to keep trying, and is currently back on the JACC board. Unlike some who use the excuse that they tried once and it didn't work, so the heck with it, Don doesn't give up. Finally, if Don Samuels wins this election it won't be because of mud slinging and half truths. I questioned Toren's use of JACC connections after checking with the staff at JACC who have worked there for at least five years. He has apparently made the claim and it cannot be substantiated. Anne McCandless Jordan - Original Message - From: Shawne FitzGerald To: Anne McCandless Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren Ms. McCandless, I'm an old friend of Margo Ashmore's from college days working
Re: [Mpls] Don Samuels and 2005
Loki: I actually live in the 3rd ward, so I'm not sure (by your post), if I'm qualified to answer your hypothetical question. I'll take a stab at it anyway. Knowing Don the way I do, I can tell you that he isn't looking ahead to 2005.Becoming the 3rd ward council member in 2003 and doing the very best job he can for the 3rd ward is his single objective at this time. He is not entering the race as a long-term political move.If Don runs for re-election in 2005, he would only do so AFTER listening to constituents.They are theones that will (and should) make the decision about when and where a person runs, not the person. Don's understanding of this is one of the reasons that you're seeing such a groundswell of support for him. He's truly an authentic community voice. Dennis Plante Jordan From: loki anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mpls Issues List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] Don Samuels and 2005 Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 13:31:25 -0800 (PST) I was wondering if any of the myriad South Minneapolis folks who are part of the Samuels campaign (or other non-Third Ward residents, like Jonathan) could answer a hypothetical question for me? If Don Samuels were to be elected the Third Ward Council Member, do you know if in 2005 he would be a) moving into the new boundaries of the Third Ward, b) running for re-election in the Fifth Ward against Natalie Johnson Lee, or c) stepping down from the City Council. Since the Jordan neighborhood will no longer be a part of the Third Ward as of 2005, I was thinking this information could be of interest to those persons about to vote next week. Loki Anderson Marshall Terrace [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Let's drink to the hard working people Let's think of the lowly of birth Spare a thought for the rag taggy people Let's drink to the salt of the earth. - the Rolling Stones __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Don Samuels and 2005
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. However, I fail to see how a campaign/candidate running for a primary election for city council seat in 2003 that does not have a strategic plan in place for the 2005 election, can be viewed as short-sighted. To the contrary, I personally would be highly suspicious of an indivdual (running in the primary) that offered a "plan" as far-reaching as what you're suggesting. Or, maybe a more tactful approach might be to suggest that of the 20 individuals running in the primary, how many of them do you think were in a position to announce their candidacy THREE years ago? Things change. Don is a man of integrity, and he's not given to making loose promises he can't live up to. In the interest of fairness, have you polled the other 19 candidates and received their views on the "hypothetical" question you've presented. Also, I am curious, why the fixation with regards to one specific issue? Dennis Plante Jordan From: loki anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mpls Issues List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Don Samuels and 2005 Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 17:36:13 -0800 (PST) --- Dennis Plante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: He is not entering the race as a long-term political move.If Don runs for re-election in 2005, he would only do so AFTER listening to constituents.They are the ones that will (and should) make the decision about when and where a person runs, not the person. Don's understanding of this is one of the reasons that you're seeing such a groundswell of support for him. He's truly an authentic community voice. Dennis Plante Jordan My question would be "Which constituents would he be listening to? The residents of Jordan, who would be redistricted with him, or the residents of Hawthorne, McKinley, Bottineau, Sheridan, and St Anthony West who will be without an incumbent yet again if he decides to stay with y'all in Jordan?" I'm assuming that you are not speaking for his campaign, but if you are it sounds like his is a truly shortsighted community voice. Loki Anderson Marshall Terrace [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Let's drink to the hard working people Let's think of the lowly of birth Spare a thought for the rag taggy people Let's drink to the salt of the earth. - the Rolling Stones __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Don Samuels and 2005
It's quite possible that the perception exists that Don's campaign focuses on Jordan because he currently resides in Jordan. However, upon closer inspection you'll find that his Campaign Co-Chair is Jennifer Young, a highly respected businesswoman from NE. We held an christmas party at the California Building last Saturday as a matter of fact. There were many well-respected people from NE in attendance. All one has to do is drive across the bridge between north and northeast to realize how different the quality of life on the two sides of the ward is. Loki's fears are no different than the fears of the residents on this side. How can one person adequately represent such a diverse ward? I applaud all the residents that have seen fit to take the time to become informed about the upcoming election. As one would suspect, everyone seems to have a "hot button". My personal hot button is that I want very much to elect a person that has lived both types of lifestyles. Not just resided in both environments mind you, but truly "lived" in both. Reasonably, do you think it was possible for Don to immigrate from Jamaica, get an education (masters), become a senior VP of a Fortune 500 company, and make theCHOICE to move back into one of the most poverty-stricken areas of our city, without havingdeveloped a sense of fairness and commitement to what he does? Dennis Plante Jordan From: Mark Snyder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Minneapolis Issues Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Don Samuels and 2005 Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 23:27:12 -0600 I think people may be missing Loki's point. My read of Loki's post is not that focusing on 2003 is short-sighted. Instead I think what Loki is concerned about is that with Don Samuel's campaign, all the discussion appears to be about Jordan neighborhood and not the entire 3rd Ward. Since Jordan is currently scheduled to be redistricted out of 3rd Ward unless a lawsuit prevails, I think Loki is concerned about Don's willingness and ability to represent a 3rd Ward that does not include Jordan and that for Don's campaign, it would be shortsighted not to be thinking about that. I don't know enough about Don's campaign to say whether this is an accurate portrayal. I just wanted to point out that people may not actually be responding to the concern Loki intended to raise. Mark Snyder Windom Park On 12/25/02 11:13 PM, "Michelle Mensing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Loki Anderson stated in the full message below: "I'm assuming that you are not speaking for his campaign, but if you are it sounds like his is a truly shortsighted community voice." (MM) I have been following the 3rd Ward race from a distance (the 13th Ward, to be specific). Of all the many posts on this subject in the last few weeks, I feel the need to speak up on this exchange, because this statement from Loki Anderson seems extremely unfair to me. Even in a normal race, I wouldn't expect a candidate to lay out their strategic plan for future elections. But in these circumstances, I think it is completely unrealistic. Don Samuels has been running in this election for about one month and due to the nature of the seat opening, jumped in with all the other candidates at a moment's notice. He happens to live in a part of the ward that will be jettisoned by the 2005 election and, if elected now, wouldn't have the luxury in the future of being the incumbent where he currently resides. It certainly seems reasonable to me that a candidate in this situation could wait until the next election cycle to decide how to handle it. Michelle Mensing Armatage - Original Message - From: Dennis Plante You're certainly entitled to your opinion. However, I fail to see how a campaign/candidate running for a primary election for city council seat in 2003 that does not have a strategic plan in place for the 2005 election, can be viewed as short-sighted. To the contrary, I personally would be highly suspicious of an indivdual (running in the primary) that offered a "plan" as far-reaching as what you're suggesting. Or, maybe a more tactful approach might be to suggest that of the 20 individuals running in the primary, how many of them do you think were in a position to announce their candidacy THREE years ago? Things change. Don is a man of integrity, and he's not given to making loose promises he can't live up to. In the interest of fairness, have you polled the other 19 candidates and received their views on the "hypothetical" question you've presented. Also, I am curious, why the fixation with regards to one specific issue? Dennis Plante Jordan My question would be "Which constituents would he be listening to? The residents of Jordan, who would be redistricted with him, o
Re: [Mpls] RE: Don Samuels and 2005
From: "V.L. Freeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] RE: Don Samuels and 2005 Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:38:31 -0800 Just a sprinkling of a different viewpoint: (JP)It's more important to focus on the election next week, rather than 2 years down the line in my opinion. (VF) I totally disagree with you. I want to know NOW!! where the candidates stand on the redistricting issues. To say that is two years down the road, is just not really caring about the citizens that "DO" live in the third ward. I do not want the office to sit empty again because, we as "VOTERS" did not think of this when we needed to. (DP) Just a thought - has anyone bothered to ask any of the other candidates (other than Don) whether or not they are committed to running for relection in 2005? Or for that matter, can anyone tell me with a fair amount of certainty, ofANY incumbent local politician that has announced their candidacy for the 2005 election?? (JP)when I looked at the candidates, Don was one that I thought most fit the bill for the needs of the 3rd Ward as well as those of the council. As someone from a neighboring ward (4th) (VL) This is the problem now, We have many other people telling "US" who to vote for and they don't live here. Like we don't have a brain or reasoning for our own selves. I don't understand this logic. List, I lived here since early 90's. I seen things come and go and come and go again. But, I never heard of Don Samuels, and I live right next to Jordan, in Hawthorne to be exact. Also, I lived in Jordan before coming to Hawthorne. The problem that either Don had only attended a couple of meeting's while on the JACC board is every bit of important to "ME", as this shows "ME" that the priorities were not there to begin with. Even if he disliked what was going on, you still hang in there until changes are made. hat's why, Third Ward residents, we have to vote for someone, that does not plan on using the Stadium to bring jobs in to the community. As what Shane Price wants to do, and anyone who thinks the DFL is so important as to seek the endorsement, but will not follow the conventions rules, such as Don Samuels and Margo Ashmore. This shows me that you wasted the delegates time. Time they spent away from their families and missing work to show up at the convention. "A BIG KICK IN THE TEETH." Such disrespect Standing for Neighbors Who Want "MOORE" in the Third Ward (DP) In all fairness, I had never heard of Olin Moore prior to this election. Does that make him any less valid as a candidate?? As far as Don "hanging-in at JACC until changes were made - I question the logic behind involving yourself with something that you know to be inherently wrong. You AND your name become attached to it. With regards to Don's not following convention rules (at the DFL endorsement convention), I believe he was both very clear and very upfront towith the fact that he intended to take it to thevoters, regardless of the outcome. To me, what IS sad about the endorsement convention - while taking a break outside between the 1st and 2nd ballots, I overheard to delegates commenting on thefact that they were turned-off by Don's suit and that he had brought his children with him. It was somewhat unfortunate that his wife couldn't attend (she was out of town on business) and therefore couldn'twatch the kids while Don attended the convention. Otherwise, we probably would have collected two more votes (his suit wasn't a deal-breaker). :) Dennis Plante Jordan Vanessa Freemanm Hawthorne _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmailxAPID=42PS=47575PI=7324DI=7474SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsgHL=1216hotmailtaglines_stopmorespam_3mf ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren
Yes, he's naturalized and as much an american as anyone else I know. From: "Jenkins, Andrea D" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Dennis Plante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:18:31 -0600 Don Samuels is an immigrant??? Has he completed the naturalization process to become a U.S. citizen? However , if you are referring to that fact that he is African - American and AA'S in this country have a history of slavery , then I would suggest that he is as much American as anyone else in this country. andrea jenkins Bryant -----Original Message- From: Dennis Plante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 5:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren Interestingly enough, I find myself supporting Don Samuels in the upcoming 3rd ward election. In many ways, you could probably not find two more different indivduals than Don and myself if you tried. I am white, he is african american. I was born into acceptance in this country, he's an immigrant that has had to work very hard for everything he has. Most of my reality related to the suffering of those less fortunate has been formed through what I read and see in the media, Don has actually LIVED the injustice and suffering. What swayed my opinion to become an ardent supporter of Don Samuels? The fact that I truly believe he has a MUCH more broad understanding of the obstacles and issues that have kept the 3rd ward from becoming the great community that it could and should be, than does any other candidate. While there are many candidates running in the upcoming primary election that would, I am sure, do a capable job, I feel I am very fortunate in having the oppotunity to cast my vote for an individual that will finally be able to bring the understanding, wisdom and conviction necessary to this elected position. I have met only a handfull of people in my life that I get the same feeling from. This guy is indeed the "real deal". Dennis Plante Jordan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:44:50 -0500 message3.txt _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren
Don's been in the US since, I believe, 1973. He in fact came here from Jamaica. Unless there's some law I'm not aware of, he is, as much a citizen of the U.S., as anyone posting on this list. If I'm not mistaken, we all had immigrants somewhere in our deep dark past. Don's deep, dark past just isn't as deep and as dark. Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Jenkins, Andrea D" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Dennis Plante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:18:31 -0600 Don Samuels is an immigrant??? Has he completed the naturalization process to become a U.S. citizen? However , if you are referring to that fact that he is African - American and AA'S in this country have a history of slavery , then I would suggest that he is as much American as anyone else in this country. andrea jenkins Bryant -----Original Message- From: Dennis Plante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 5:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren Interestingly enough, I find myself supporting Don Samuels in the upcoming 3rd ward election. In many ways, you could probably not find two more different indivduals than Don and myself if you tried. I am white, he is african american. I was born into acceptance in this country, he's an immigrant that has had to work very hard for everything he has. Most of my reality related to the suffering of those less fortunate has been formed through what I read and see in the media, Don has actually LIVED the injustice and suffering. What swayed my opinion to become an ardent supporter of Don Samuels? The fact that I truly believe he has a MUCH more broad understanding of the obstacles and issues that have kept the 3rd ward from becoming the great community that it could and should be, than does any other candidate. While there are many candidates running in the upcoming primary election that would, I am sure, do a capable job, I feel I am very fortunate in having the oppotunity to cast my vote for an individual that will finally be able to bring the understanding, wisdom and conviction necessary to this elected position. I have met only a handfull of people in my life that I get the same feeling from. This guy is indeed the "real deal". Dennis Plante Jordan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Matt Thoren Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:44:50 -0500 message3.txt _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] RE: Don Samuels and 2005
I guess at the end of the day, here's what I don't understand. If in fact one of the founding principles of our rights as citizens is that of the right to vote for our representation, then why would someone NOT be okay with letting the people decide is Don Samuels (or Margo Ashmore for that matter) is to be our next council person. In all honesty, I feel like I have met numerous residents of the third ward (door knocking) that were as well-informed on the candidate issues as were some of the delegates I met at the DFL convention. For me, it appears that it's incumbent upon the DFL (or any other party) to do a better job in getting their delegates up to speed BEFORE the convention. Personally, I will NEVER vote Republican. However, after having experienced the "process" firsthand, I'm not so sure I'm comfortable allowing someone else to select who it is I should vote for. Especially when I am not convinced that the necessary due-dilligence was performed to make a good decision for me. The question needs to be asked - should we allow 72 (delegates) individualshave ourvoice for the next 3 years? Another question (as long as we're talking about living inside the ward) - how many of the (DFL) delegates actually live in the 3rd ward?Dennis Plante Jordan From: "V.L. Freeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] RE: Don Samuels and 2005 Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:38:31 -0800 I hope everyone is having a great holiday!! (JP)It's more important to focus on the election next week, rather than 2 years down the line in my opinion. (VF) I totally disagree with you. I want to know NOW!! where the candidates stand on the redistricting issues. To say that is two years down the road, is just not really caring about the citizens that "DO" live in the third ward. I do not want the office to sit empty again because, we as "VOTERS" did not think of this when we needed to. (JP)when I looked at the candidates, Don was one that I thought most fit the bill for the needs of the 3rd Ward as well as those of the council. As someone from a neighboring ward (4th) (VL) This is the problem now, We have many other people telling "US" who to vote for and they don't live here. Like we don't have a brain or reasoning for our own selves. I don't understand this logic. List, I lived here since early 90's. I seen things come and go and come and go again. But, I never heard of Don Samuels, and I live right next to Jordan, in Hawthorne to be exact. Also, I lived in Jordan before coming to Hawthorne. The problem that either Don had only attended a couple of meeting's while on the JACC board is every bit of important to "ME", as this shows "ME" that the priorities were not there to begin with. Even if he disliked what was going on, you still hang in there until changes are made. That's why, Third Ward residents, we have to vote for someone, that does not plan on using the Stadium to bring jobs in to the community. As what Shane Price wants to do, and anyone who thinks the DFL is so important as to seek the endorsement, but will not follow the conventions rules, such as Don Samuels and Margo Ashmore. This shows me that you wasted the delegates time. Time they spent away from their families and missing work to show up at the convention. "A BIG KICK IN THE TEETH." Such disrespect Standing for Neighbors Who Want "MOORE" in the Third Ward Vanessa Freemanm Hawthorne _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmailxAPID=42PS=47575PI=7324DI=7474SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsgHL=1216hotmailtaglines_stopmorespam_3mf ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Lisensure
Actually Anne, neither your electrical, nor your roofing permits (from this year) have been cleared (inspected). And according the the City's records, the dumpster usedto tear-off your old roof is still sitting in front of your house. :) Welcome to the world of residential general contracting in the City of Minneapolis. Dennis Plante Jordan LGC (State License - that is) From: "Anne McCandless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] Lisensure Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 15:36:41 -0600 If you read the Strib today, I think you may find a state legislator who would help get that bill for you. I guess St Paul has some of the same policies as Mpls. I just wish that we could count on city inspectors to follow up on the permits and inspect the work. About 5 years ago, I had a new furnace put in by a reputable (fortunately) company in Mpls. That was in August. In April I got a nasty letter from the Inspections division chastising in me for not having the furnace checked. I contacted the inspector and informed him that nobody from inspections had ever attempted to inspect it or set up an appt to do so. I also told him that having gone through a whole heating season and not blowing up the neighborhood, chances were good that the work had been properly done. He did apologize and say that they were backed up and the letter was a form letter. Yeah, right. This spring I had extensive electrical work done by a licensed electrician who also got a permit. When he was done, he used my kitchen phone to call the inspector for my neighborhood and left a message telling him the work was done and to call him or me to set up a time to inspect the work. Three phone call later by him and one by me, I finally called my councilman. The inspector came out the next day, never rang the doorbell, but I saw him walk to the back of the house. When I went outside, he was standing in front of the new electric meter writing out a postcard to leave for me saying he had been there and couldn't get in. Needless to say, he was surprised when I said hello and I finally got my project inspected and the electrician could close out his job. In August of this year, I had a new roof put on, again by a licensed contractor who got a permit. No inspector was here while the work was done, none has been by since. I'll probably see one after a tornado goes through and if the roof is still on, he'll okay the work. I'm afraid my faith in the inspections division, when it comes to following up on permits, is nil. The fact that the city has the gall to charge already state licensed tradesmen is a joke. I figure, if an electrician or plumber is good enough to work in Orono or Eden Prairie, they're good enough for little old me. The key to getting good work is to thoroughly check out whose doing the work before you sign anything and realize that the low bid is not always the least expensive. And don't count on the city to protect you. Anne McCandless Jordan ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Back-flow preventers
I have one question and one comment. First the comment. As evidenced by the fact that someone recently won the 300+ million powerball, itappears that the fiveminutes (in the last 8 years) is risky enough for the City to think it prudent to implement this new ordinance. No telling whena group of unsupervised youths are going to illegally open a fire hydrant of your street corner on a hot August day. Next the question: why is it that some of the emails I receive from the list consistently show-up in junk mail and some consistently show-up in my in-box.I've notice that anyone showing support for the DFL endorsed candidate show-up in the latter, whereas any dissenting opinonshows-up in the former :) Dennis Plante Jordan P.S. - as a licensed General Contractor - I would recomment thatbecome buddies with a City licensed plumber (a six-pack on a Sunday afternoon during a Packers game shoudl do it), find-out exactly what needs to be done, and do the work yourself. From: "David Brauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mpls list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] Back-flow preventers Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:33:02 -0600 Here's a post that will have my anti-bureaucracy and landlord friends chuckling with "I told you so..." So we're selling our house (anyone want to live in prestigious East Kingfield?). Part of the selling process is getting a Truth-In-Housing inspection. Our abode - lovingly upgraded from the rental property it was when we bought it - passed with flying colors...except for the dreaded "back-flow preventer." These small pieces of shrapnel apparently keep water from flowing into the city's water system if somehow there is negative pressure. We need three of them. Two are $5 parts that screw on our exterior hose faucet and the one in our laundry tub. The third is a bit more problematic...it goes on the water supply to our boiler. That means cutting copper pipe, installing the thing, adding a second shut-off valve...in other words, a plumber and a permit. Since our plumbing was upgraded three years ago, I asked the inspector what the deal was. "New requirement as of June 1," he explained. "It's a silly thing...you'd probably only need one if a car hit the fire hydrant outside AND your boiler water supply was turned on...then the negative pressure might suck the water out of your radiators into the city system." Anyone with a boiler knows how infrequently they add water to their system. Our water supply has probably been on for a grand total of five minutes in the 8 years we've owned the house. The odds of negative pressure occurring WHILE the water supply is on roughly match the chances of winning the Powerball. So, my question: why was this requirement added? What was the justification? As always, I'll accede to superior info, but right now, this looks like one silly regulation. David Brauer King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] 3rd Ward race- does the Gay community have a friend in this race?
Dyna, I have this vision of you being a police detective. Your powers ofdeductive reasoning are astounding. imho-the signof a desperate campaign is: when continued (bordering on a fixation) baseless inferences are made towards issues such as campaign finacing. To the best of my knowledge, other than an occasional sound byte for Shane, you've mentioned Don Samuels more than the candidate you're supporting. And we're desperate? BTB-thefour children with my wife tookwith her whilehanding out literature today were promptly told by my wife that attempting to attach a Don Samuels (even though he's better looking) flyer to Olin's yardsign was not appropriate behaviour. Maybe my wife'll receive a formal reprimand from the DFL Party? The nerve, taking the time to get kids involved in politics. I'll have a talk with her. Dennis Plante Jordan From: dyna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] 3rd Ward race- does the Gay community have a friend in this race? Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 00:23:49 -0600 Three weeks ago I issued a challenge to the 3rd Ward candidates- fill out Stonewall DFL's screening questionare and post the answers to this list. Three candidates screened with Stonewall DFL and two were found acceptable. One of these two acceptable candidates has since dropped out of the race. Green Party candidate Shane Price could have screened for Lavender Greens endorsement, but he has yet to return their screening form for the 2001 race. Of the remaining two score or so of candidates not a single one has taken up my challenge to fill out and post their answers to Stonewall DFL's questionnaire. So 3rd ward GLBT folks and friends are left with only one candidate- Olin Moore. Olin Moore is the only candidate in the race who has put down on paper his support for the Gay community. And Olin Moore is the only candidate in this race to have won the approval of any GLBT caucus. This may seem like a minor manner, but we have been duped before. In 2001 Natalie Johnson Lee never even screened with the Lavender Greens. Recently she voted against a measure that would have required that large city contractors provide domestic partner benefits to their employees. With republicans controlling the state house and governor's mansion 3rd Ward GLBT folks can't afford to lose another vote on the city council. We have one choice, and that choice is Olin Moore. Standing up for Olin Moore in Hawthorne, Dyna Sluyter p.s.: Today my tiny house and yard was littered with no less than five (5) pieces of Don Samuels' literature. Obviously Don Samuels is NOT the environmental candidate! Let's see- 5 pieces times 10,000 or so residences in the ward= 50,000 pieces of literature! I have to give Don Credit for getting such an incredible volume of literature from one in-kind under $300 donation!(LOL) Don's campaigners even tried to attach a couple pieces of lit to an Olin Moore lawn sign- a sure sign of a desperate campaign. Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:03:52 -0600 To: mpls-mnforum.org From: dyna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Third Ward politics and endorsements Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: Also, some of the candidates apparently weren't invited to screen for the Stonewall DFL endorsement. At this time (sunday evening) I have yet to receive a request as a Stonewall DFL Board Member for a vote on an endorsement. It will thusly be impossible for Stonewall DFL to endorse before the convention tomorrow. Any alleged Stonewall DFL endorsement before the convention tomorrow is thusly bogus. With Stonewall DFL unable to make an endorsement candidates might want to post their answers to the Stonewall DFL endorsement questionnaire here on the list and in their literature. The questionaire is available at www.stonewalldfl.org/endorsements/questionare/city_council.htm . -- ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Third Ward Election
Somehwhere in between "not turning them away" and "not hunting them down", lies the answer. Believe it or not, most of who we are as adults are from what we learn growing up. I dare say that many of the non-participants (on the Northside) don't participate for a reason other than finding city politics "boring". In most instances, it is probably more related to a belief that was instailled in their parents, their grandparents, and their great grandparents, that they in fact did not have the right to vote, regardless of what the federal laws might say. I think that even a brief observation of the ethnic composition of the "poorer constituents" currently living on the Northside would indicate that most of them came from somewhere else not too awfully long ago. Many of those places they came from, were not quite as indifferent to their participation (in politics) as the "Minnesota Nice" people they now live with. It is my belief that ifwe ever want to find a happy balance in our community, that it is incumbentupon the people that were fortunate enough to grow-up with the belief that their vote counts, to go past what is normally expectedof them anddo a better job reaching out to those that have, over time, become totally disenfranchised. With the right to vote comes responsibilities. Dennis Plante Jordan From: Jim Mork <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Third Ward Election Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 05:56:59 -0800 (PST) As I look at the ward on the map, it occurs to me that the CM comes from east of the river because the NE voters turn out on election day. Maybe the North voters consider downtown politics too boring to spend their time on it. That's why the poorer parts of America have so little influence. They think political participation is for other people. Not to say they don't have SOME reasons for such beliefs (the rampant buying of government by the rich being one), but voter groups who seldom show up at the polls are safely ignored in politics. We don't generally turn people away in this part of the country, but we don't hunt them down and force them to vote, either. = = Jim MorkCooper Neighborhood "Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called children of God"--Matthew 5:9 United for Peace http://www.unitedforpeace.org/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] 3rd Ward parties
Don Samuels - 2700 Logan Av N The party has alreadystarted. Dennis Plante Jordan From: "David Brauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mpls list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] 3rd Ward parties Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 19:40:39 -0600 Well, candidate parties, anyway - Could someone post where each campaign's primary night party will be? I assume the more the merrier, right? It is an election, after all. Thanks, David Brauer King Field (But in the 3rd Ward tonight!) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] 3rd Ward Primary- Sly Di's Political Postmortem (Street Price= $.25)
From: dyna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] 3rd Ward Primary- Sly Di's Political Postmortem (Street Price= $.25) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:29:15 -0600 Thanks Markus for posting the numbers here. There were few surprises here- the 3rd's body politic behaved as historically expected, with Northeast precincts having double the turnout of the Northside's. Don Samuels was hurt by low turnout on his side of the river, but even if Northside turnout had equaled Northeast's Don still would have run second, though by smaller margin. Not that it matters, but in fact, had voter turn-out in North equaled the turn-out for the NE, Don would have actually beaten Olin by a few votes and taken 1st in the primary (692-671). What is amazing here is how a virtual political unknown, Olin Moore, has finished ahead of media darling Don Samuels. It is a compliment to the voters of the 3rd that they saw past the considerable media canonization Don has received and mostly preferred Olin Moore. Or looking at it another way one could argue that the union label and endorsement Olin carried was worth more than hours of major media exposure and a blizzard of lit(ter). Whereas,75% of the votes cast wereNOT for Olin,I think most voters in the 3rd would probably take exception to this statement. For those that didn't make the cut- well, I hope you folks at least had fun. Notable was the fact that nearly half the candidates didn't even get a vote for each dollar of their filing fee. DFL identified candidates pulled in something like 60% of the votes- does anyone remember a Republican winning the 3rd? Even with Log Cabin endorsement republican candidate Valdis Rozentals came in 3rd with about 15% of the vote. Trailing by 4 votes DFLer Margo Ashmore was only 78 votes behind Don Samuels- I suspect if Margo had spent as much as Don had she'd be headed for the general election instead of Don. Drawing not quite 10% of the vote Shane Price provided further evidence that the Green Party is no longer a force in national or local politics. It is with some sadness that I watch the Green Party's departure from the world of major party status at midnight tonight. My mourning is somewhat relived by the promise of seeing many of the Green Party survivors in the DFL green caucuses though... Prognostications for the general election: This is Olin Moore's race to lose. Most of Margo Ashmore's support will go to Olin. Greens will largely support the more progressive candidate, Olin; While some Republicans may support Don Samuels for his "tough on crime" and anti union stance. A very interesting theory.When speakingwith Margo's supporters over the last few weeks, i remember a recurring theme - that if Margo weren't running, they'd vote for Don. While some would theorize that the larger turnout in the general election will help Don, I suspect the historic 2/1 Northeast/Northside voter turnout will recur. Don may suffer from increased media scrutiny now that he has survived the primary- it would be wise for him to come clean and reveal just who's providing and paying for his printing ASAP. Don could switch to a union printer, but labor folks have long memories and probably wouldn't be swayed by such tokenism. Oddly enough I hope this happens Dyna. Everytime Don comes under media scrutiny more and morevoters in the 3rd make a choice for Don. A good analogy would be a small seismic tremor out in the middle of the ocean hardly causes a ripple in the water - at first. On its travels towards landfall the small ripplegains energy and momentum. Upon arrival at landfall, the small ripple becomes a tidal wave. Where has all this energy come from? From the voters in the 3rd, finally connecting with an authentic community voice. Dennis Plante Jordan Let the serious campaigning begin! Dyna Sluyter in Hawthorne P1 210/992 = 21.17% Olin = 71, Don = 18 P2 335/1589 = 21.08% Olin = 101, Don = 20 P3 270/1872 = 14.42% Olin = 58, Don = 24 P4 295/1655 = 17.82% Olin = 97, Don = 26 P5 263/1202 = 21.88% Olin = 59, Don = 37 P6 103/303 = 33.99% Olin = 27, Don = 23 Northeast precincts 1476/7613 = 19.39% Olin = 413, Don = 148 P7 142/1936 = 7.33% Olin = 38, Don = 43 P8 157/1347 = 11.66% Olin = 22, Don = 91 P9 171/1788 = 9.56% Olin = 36, Don = 51 P10 115/1432 = 8.03% Olin = 22, Don = 30 Northside precincts 585/6503 = 9.00% Olin = 118, Don = 215 Overall turnout 2061/14116 = 14.60% Olin = 531, Don = 363 Shane = 202, Margo = 295, Valdis = 299, Trish Shilling = 107 Fred Markus, Horn Terrace, Ward Ten, in the Lyndale Neighborhood -- ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com
RE: [Mpls] Crime Walgreens [White Collar Crime too]
My prediction: most of the smart investors that had a business model in place and weren't in a position to adapt to changing demographics have ALREADY leaft Minneapolis. Those that are left, are trying to either develop their own exit strategies, or adapt their existing models to fit the new demographics. Dennis Plante Jordan From: Barbara Lickness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: David Brauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mpls] Crime Walgreens [White Collar Crime too] Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:28:14 -0800 (PST) My prediction is that in five years, Franklin will be a destination location beyond Maria's, the Fetus and the Ancient Traders Market. I have seen some really cool development plans for different locations along Franklin. They aren't all coming with their hand out looking for the public dime. They are investing their own funds. Barb Lickness Whittier = "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Junk Mail - A Minneapolis Problem
Without a doubt, stopping at the waste basket (after checking the mail daily) is not a routine I like. However, I see it as a trade-off for not having to get a dolly to lug a 75 lb. Sunday Newspaper in off the front steps (it's heavy enough as it is.). As long as people targeted for direct mail respond to the message(s) they receive often enough, direct mail will continue to occur. If direct mailers became ineffective (from a cost-standpoint) businesses and yes PNP's would stop using them as a means of reaching those they desired to communicate with. The fact of the matter is that the ROI (on direct mailers) remains high enough to offset the cost. If you really want to stop the majority of bulk (or targeted) mail, urge neighbors to stop responding to the mail they receive. Dennis Plante Jordan From: Robert Schmid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Minneapolis Issues List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Junk Mail - A Minneapolis Problem Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:29:48 -0600 Fair enough, but some of these businesses serve legitimate mailing purposes instead of or in addition to Junk Mail. When I searched Qwestdex for Advertising Direct Mail in Minneapolis I found only 7, not 47. Perhaps the other 40 are in the suburbs or only have a phone/mail forwarding presence? But the point still stands - with regard to mailers from outside Minneapolis, they are exploiting public services without paying for them and our local junk mailers are doing the same in thousands of other communities. As for Billy Graham - since they have sent me nothing, I can assume they are not buying my name off of mailing lists from others. I can hope that they are only communicating with people with whom they have, in fact, established a relationship. And to use at least some of your own words; "So although some may not like it, drug dealers and prostitutes are located in Minneapolis, do pay taxes [(at least sales taxes)] in Minneapolis and do provide jobs in Minneapolis." Does this mean I should accept drugs and prostitution because it contributes to the economy? Finally, I might be more willing to pay attention to political and charitable mail if I didn't get so much other commercial crap. Robert Schmid Central On Monday, January 6, 2003, at 11:28 AM, Terrell Brown wrote: -Original Message- From: Robert Schmid Subject: [Mpls] Junk Mail - A Minneapolis Problem For the most part these junk mailers are not located in Minneapolis, do not pay taxes in Minneapolis and do not provide jobs in Minneapolis. They use and exploit our public services without even BEING here. [TB] Ah contraire ... they are here. A quick search revealed these with addresses of "Minneapolis, MN" and by the way isn't the largest mailer from the Minneapolis Post Office the Billy Graham Evangelical Association? So although some may not like it, these mailers are located in Minneapolis, do pay taxes in Minneapolis and do provide jobs in Minneapolis. The entire list looks like lots of jobs ... many in North Minneapolis. Sorry, I hate to let a few facts get in the way of a good rant. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Junk Mail - A Minneapolis Problem?
I couldn't help but chime in on this on. Impact Printing and Impact Mailing are in fact two different companies. Impact Printing (located in St. Paul @ 1067 Rice St)) is in fact a unionized printing company. Impact Mailing (located at 46th Lyndale) is in fact a NON-UNIONIZED direct mail full-fillment company. They (Impact Mailing) in fact did a LARGE mailing for the teamsters union recently. Go figure. A UNION supporting a non-union shop. If you would prefer Dyna, the next time I see Don, I'll ask him to consider either running his direct mail through impact mailing (non-unionized, but in North Minneapolis), or Impact Mailing (unionized, but located in St. Paul). The downside with Impact Mailing of course, is that although they are located in North Minneapolis, they "shop" the printing rates to get the best deal. :) Dennis Plante Jordan From: dyna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Junk Mail - A Minneapolis Problem? Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:50:26 -0600 Being that I move mail, junk and otherwise, by the trailer load I thought I'd weigh in on this. -Original Message- From: Robert Schmid Subject: [Mpls] Junk Mail - A Minneapolis Problem The entire list looks like lots of jobs ... many in North Minneapolis. (dyna wrote) Yes, the above list and Don Samuels' campaign ignores Impact printing and mailing, a union printer on the Northside that produces a couple trailer loads a day. Impact continues to expand on the Northside and provides living wage jobs to a large and diverse workforce. If Don Samuels had any "authentic community values" he would have taken his printing and mailing work to Impact or another local union printer. Strange, haven't heard much from Don's campaign lately- perhaps he's abandoning the campaign in hopes of winning back DFL support for a 5th Ward run in 2005? Amen! Dyna Sluyter, Union Proud in Hawthorne Terrell Brown Loring Park terrell at terrellbrown dot org -- ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] 3rd Ward election promises higher standard~insight News
imate responsibility for budget development and oversight? Seems to me experience in this area might be important with what's going on right now. When was the last time he sat down with Chief Olson and discussed the community police issues facing the 3rd ward? I think that I'm being both fair and objective in rasing these questions and would very much appreciate both a fair and honest answer. Dennis Plante Jordan Vanessa Freeman Hawthorne _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] NRP and cultural involvement
My observations regarding minority paticipation at the neighborhood level as it relates to Jordan at least, is that it hasn't been as good as it should be. A couple of observations: 1) If I'm not mistaken owner occupancy (in Jordan) is only roughly 60%. For the remaining 40% that are renters, the overwhelming majority are minorities.My guess, it'spretty tough to get renters as invested personally in NRP matters as it is homeowners. Not to say that it can't happen, but it does take a special effort. 2) Speaking from experience, a significant segment (again in Jordan) of our population is represented by single parent families (mostly single women). Many from this segment (again, I can only speak about Jordan), are not in a financial position to either leave their children with a childcare provider, or hire a baby-sitter. As one of the founding members of the Jordan Livability Forum, we were able tomake our meetingsmore accessible by providing childcare on-site during the meeting. It turned out to be a very good decision. Sometimes it's not that people aren't well-intended, it's just that they don't understand the issues related to the subject. I know my personal thoughts on matters such as this have changed dramatically in the past fews years. Dennis Plante Jordan From: Barbara Lickness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Michael Atherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,'Minneapolis Issues' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Mpls] NRP and cultural involvement Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:21:39 -0800 (PST) I think you are making the box too small Mike. You cannot judge NRP participation by how many people attend meetings. There has to be other ways to measure participation. Participation in a neighborhood survey or focus group is participation. Participating in a program or project funded by NRP dollars is participation. Attending a festival or event paid for by NRP is participation. Using a facility paid for by NRP is participation. The fact that "regular" monthly meetings in neighborhoods is predominantly attended by white people may be making a statement about how meetings as a rule are interpreted by different cultures. Not everyone is going to attend a monthly committee or be a board member. However, they will fill out a survey either in writing or on the phone if they are asked to. They will participate in a focus group if you accommodate the barriers that prevent them from participation. They will send their kids to a program that is funded by NRP. They will use a facility that was paid for by NRP. They will attend a festival or event paid for by NRP funds. Attending meetings and benefitting from the expenditure of NRP funds are two entirely different things. I do not mean to say that I am not concerned about the lack of participation from people of color or low income people at neighborhood meetings. It concerns me and many of the neighborhood volunteers I work with. Many of the neighborhoods I work with including the one I live in have done outreach to low income people and people of color in an attempt to increase meeting attendance. The results have not been successful for a variety of reasons. Lack of resources for interpretation into various languages is one barrier. Lack of funds to pay for aggressive organizing. Lack of relationships with leadership in the various communities. Lack of personal empowerment in many cultures based on years of history is a reason. But, attempting to organize these people just to get them to come to your meeting is limiting. It is just as important to organize people to participate in whatever way makes them feel comfortable. That could be a program, event, festival, survey, focus group, project etc. and not a meeting. I have said for a long time we cannot judge the success of this program solely based on who shows up at a meeting. That being said, I think we need to look for other opportunities beyond neighborhood meetings to engage the greater community. Neighborhood volunteers should be thinking out of the box about how to engage people in their community in a way that is comfortable for them. When Whittier did it's Phase I plan review, they did focus groups with all the representative communities in the neighborhood. Extensive efforts were made to do outreach to communities of color. Accommodations were made to remove the barriers that would prevent people from participating. Whittier was successful at gaining involvement and participation from hard to reach communities because they tailored the outreach to those communities. As a result, the information the neighborhood recieved came from people in all walks of life and all the different cultures in Whittier. Whittier was able to proceed confidently into it's Phase II NRP plan knowing that they were informed with solid information that was derived from a representation of the whole neighborhood, not just a small port
RE: [Mpls] Speed limit on Hiawatha
It's good to see that there are varying opinions regarding Hiawatha. For the longest time after the "new" road opened, I was under the impression that the general contractor for the project had somehow gotten ahold of the wrong set of plans, and had erroneously re-workedthe road and turned it into an extension of 35WS. /jk If I lived in the immediate area of Hiawatha, I would not be pleased with the end product, if only from an appearance standpoint. The truth of the matter (regarding speed limits) is that people now travel 50mph in a 35mph zone. To increase the speed limit further would, in my opnion, be absurd. Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Jim MCGUIRE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mpls] Speed limit on Hiawatha Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:17:07 -0600 Terrell Brown [TB] We have Interstate 94 as the southern border of our neighborhood and 35W at the southeast corner. Do we get to close them down or set the speed limit there? DeWayne Townsend [DT]Depends, were you promised that the speed limit on 94 and 35 would be 35mph? In addition to that I'd ask several questions. How often do you walk across 35W or I94? How many others walk across it? How many of them are school children? People in wheelchairs? The answer should be none, but I suppose there is an exception or two a year in which people walk across the freeway. Hiawatha is not a freeway. Jim McGuire Como _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] NRP
Jim: Without a doubt, you probably invest heavily of yourself on community-related issues. I am sure you have reached both a level of awareness and reality of how much your involvement can, and will impact your community. Sometimes, in order to first find-out what the "truth" is, it's appropriate to establish a "benchmark" that allows you to reasonably obtain the objectives/goals that have been established. In the case of community activism or improvement, it may not be realistic to expect a significant percentage of minorities (if that is truly an intended goal)to participate by simply publicizing the meetings. Many within the minority population grew-up in households that did not teach, or subscribe to the theory that their input was either needed, or wanted. Indeed, many others are not in a position to afford the cost associated with hiring baby-sitter so that they may attend these meetings. All that I ask is this - if you truly believe that it's important thatone of NRP's objectives be that every effort possible be made to include minorities in the decision-making process, that maybe we shouldhonestly ask ourselves why more minorities do not get involved. It may very well be simply a matter of inconveniencessuch as the one listed above. I for one,firmly believe that for my community life to measurably improve, it's incumbent upon me (in my neighborhood at least) to not only allow what we continue to call the"minority" voice to become a "majority", but thatI must do everything I can to allow that to happen. Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Jim Mork" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] NRP Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:47:39 -0600 I've watched this discussion and struggled in vain to see the point of the arguments. The VIRTUE of a project cannot be measured by who is active in it. Is there ANY proof of any attempt to keep minorities inactive? Are they holding secret meetings? In my neighborhood, everything is out in the open. The failure of minorities to participate has to be result of their failure to read the community newspapers, the community council newsletter, and the failure to come to community meetings. Those are the channels of communication, and failure to use them will keep someone ignorant. And I seriously don't believe the community activists are morally required to hunt down the minorities who hide from community participation. The guidelines for handing out help are slanted towards people of more modest means. If anything, that is discriminatory against caucasians, but the caucasians who run the program don't complain. They just want the neighborhood rehabilitated, however that can best be done. I'd like to see the complainers produce some actual evidence, not just anecdotes about "participation". I have a feeling they are falling back on that rather than doing any hard work before they start throwing their darts at a worthy program. -- Jim Mork--Cooper "War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our Country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out." Gen. William T. Sherman (1864) Letter to the Mayor of Atlanta. Get your free Web-based E-mail at http://www.startribune.com/stribmail ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP
From: "Jim Mork" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:45:42 -0600 JMDon Samuels: Martin Sabo is a mainstream DFLer, just like Olin Moore. If you think you can find some "self-made" immigrant who can do Sabo's job better than he has done it, show me. I don't know that much about Olin Moore, but the fact that he has connections that Don Samuels doesnt have has got to be the WEAKEST argument for supporting Don Samuels that I can think. This city needs all the connected it people it can get. You don't wait till you're sick to find a doctor, and you don't wait till you need connections to make sure you have them. A guy who understands the plight of the struggling is not as valuable as a guy who can help ameliorate those struggles. Thousands of people have gotten paying jobs through Sabo's efforts over the years. How many has Don Samuels helped employ? Make any choice you want, but at least think about the choices in a realistic way. As we speak, I just returned from a fundraiserat Elsies' for Don Samuels. I think it's very safe to say he doesn't lack "connections", or support for that matter. Being able to pick-up the phone and easily connect with a decision maker (such as Sabo) is w/o a doubt, an important commodity. However, knowing what to do to achieve a positive outcome, once the phone is answered, is every bit as important. One very important issue (in this race) thatCONTINUES to be overlooked, is experience. Not of the political type, but real-life. As these are the lessions that really matter, if I'm not mistaken. Looking at this objectively, Don is 53 and has in his adult life, lived through the Viet Nam War, the Gulf War and numerous "minor" skirmishes in between. He's seen what, two full-fledged recessions and numerous other economic down-turns? Olinon the other hand, has cut his professional teeth during the relatively good economic times of the 90's. While I have no doubt Olin is a nice guy and is very well-connected to Senator Sabo, I for one, would like to see a more broad work experience prior to electing him to represent me in the 3rd ward. Dennis Plante Jordan Jim Mork--Cooper Min Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP
dp Because this is a municipal election for a council person and it's been mentioned thatpolitical connections are important, it'd be interesting for members of this list to come-up with the 10-12 most influential individuals residing within (or very close to) the boundaries of the 3rd ward and determine where these 10-12 individuals stood regarding candidate endorsement for this election. Afterall, it would seem that these 10-12 individuals would be both well-informed AND key in lobbying for future considerations in the ward, would it not? Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Jim Mork" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:45:42 -0600 NWA: Don Samuels: Martin Sabo is a mainstream DFLer, just like Olin Moore. If you think you can find some "self-made" immigrant who can do Sabo's job better than he has done it, show me. I don't know that much about Olin Moore, but the fact that he has connections that Don Samuels doesnt have has got to be the WEAKEST argument for supporting Don Samuels that I can think. This city needs all the connected it people it can get. You don't wait till you're sick to find a doctor, and you don't wait till you need connections to make sure you have them. A guy who understands the plight of the struggling is not as valuable as a guy who can help ameliorate those struggles. Thousands of people have gotten paying jobs through Sabo's efforts over the years. How many has Don Samuels helped employ? Make any choice you want, but at least think about the choices in a realistic way. -- Jim Mork--Cooper "War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our Country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out." Gen. William T. Sherman (1864) Letter to the Mayor of Atlanta. Get your free Web-based E-mail at http://www.startribune.com/stribmail ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Questions and WHO can't find a union printer...
Sums-up my feelings pretty well Jonathan. Apparently, even though we live in a city that is made-up of what 22%African American, the DFL stillchooses to place a much higher priority on being politically correct (in hiring a union printer) than itdoes on furthering the cause of job creation for disadvantaged minorities. One has to wonder whose priorities are out of line. I am white, yet it hit me right between the eyes when someone once said to me "the reason change comes so hard, isbecause the people in power have yet to realize that they don't have togive-up their piece of the pie to allow the others their fair share". Is it possible that Don's campaign has "dissed" no one? Instead maybe he has chosen to make a statement of what he views as an equally important issue? The lack of employment opportunities available to disadvantaged minorities. I personally find it interesting that Don, most likely because heIS African American, is being 'taken to task" on the issues of being both politically correct and doing the right thing in supporting job opportunities for minorities, yet Olin is not. I could care less if Don were an alien with seven toes and fingers on each hand and foot. I'd still vote for him because he's willing to do the right thing and take a stand on a very tough (and apparently) unpopular issue. For me to be able to get behind an effort to censor Donfor his stanceon thecorrectness of hiring a minority would, in my opinion, be hypocritical. Dennis Plante Jordan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Questions and WHO can't find a union printer... Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:48:28 -0500 Hear Hear Lisa, the problem is that all of the detractors want you to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain as it were" and obfuscate the true issues with political sound bytes. Wizard raised an interesting argument except for one thing...no printer was selected prior to the convention. It wasn't until after the convention that the Samuels campaign began looking at the printers, ergo her argument is moot. In fact none of the unions have even bothered to invite Don to screen with them, yet the campaign is chastised and accused of union busting because in a special election it decided to support economic and minority business development within its ward boundaries. Yet no issue was raised when the Moore camp took their dollars not only out of the ward but out of the City. Since this is such a pressing issue to the Moore camp, why didn't they utilize a printer in the 3rd ward? This campaign has been rife not only with inane questions, but with attacks and threats of legal action against the campaign for daring to "not know its place" by utilizing a local printer or daring to call Don a "DFL candidate". In fact, I have even been told I should resign my position as a director of the CD and co-chair of the Affirmative Action Commission by 5th CD DFL Leadership because it is "insulting" and "disrespectful" that I would be 'uppity' enough to have chosen to support an African American man running as a DFler over the endorsed candidate who is a White man. All of this while we celebrate the life of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., a man who stood for justice, civil rights and freedom. And because of that, it brings to my mind several questions: -How appropriate it is to tell the Affirmative Action Commission co-chair that for promoting a DFL candidate who is a person of color, that they should resign? -Why is it that there is not a single originally endorsed DFL Council member of color? -Why is it that the DFL tries to railroad out of the party people that disagree with them? -Or how inappropriate it is for African Americans and other people of color to be told that their time has not yet come? -Or how inappropriate it is that close-minded party-centric hacks continue to drive the DFL toward minority status? -Why is it okay for the 32 year old white DFL-endorsed candidate with no platform to continue to appropriate the positions, words and record of the 53 year old African American candidate and call them his own and the party still calls him the better candidate and continues to lambaste the other for principled decisions? There are no answers to these questions forthcoming and every time they're asked you get a deflection faster than Vice President Cheney on business ethics. But I guess if these questions were to be considered, someone would have to take a good look at the inconsistencies in practices. I have posted sections of the platform with little response – and nothing forthcoming from Olin’s campaign on where he stands other than the message of “Olin agree with everything Don says –but he's not a black man from North Minneapolis” Lets get this back to issues: How about this: RACE RELATIONS "Minneapolis is strongest when we all work together. Embracing our di
Re: [Mpls] Union printers, trivial crimes
As long as we're on the subject of "trivial crimes" as they relate to the current 3rd ward campaign, maybe the city dfl could cruise down Lowry Ave between Washington Ave., and Penn Ave., and verify the legality of the campaign signs posted at the business properties. I'm sure this has already been taken care of, as it seems that there is an infinite amount of time taken-upon issues of this kind. It was never made clear - was it Jonathan Palmer, or the city dfl that originally brought-up the "serious infraction", no wait, I'm SURE the term used was "fellonious offense"for using the termdflcandidatemistakenly by the Samuels campaign??? I probably don't have any business asking, as I'm only a3rd ward resident,and therefore don't have much of a say-so in this election. But I'm curious nonetheless. Why is it that the city dfl feels the need to seek thepersonal endorsement (in this election) of a US Senator? Seems kind of odd to me. Why is it that a grassroots campaign can generate and make available a campaign platform (donsmauels.org), yet a city dfl endosered candidate isn't able to? One last question, and it REALLY does affect me. The city dfl has made it "their priority" this year to "reach-out" to minorities. Would you be so kind as to share objectives and goals related to this priority. I'd really be happy to see the dfl persuade the number of voters in the western half of the third ward to vote that Don Samuels was able tomotivate (to vote) in the primary, as then they'd stop blaming me for all the bad decisions I make. Dennis Plante Jordan Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Third ward race
I guess then the question becomes, should we just have the residents living in the "new" 3rd ward hold sway over the upcoming special election? While in fact an election for all city council positions may, or mayNOT be forced by legislative action in the upcoming future, a special election for a currently vacant city council seat exists and WILL take place next week on February 3rd. Unless I am missing something, it would appear that The Honrable Rep. Kahnis suggesting that residents of the existing 3rd ward cast their votes to accomodate her concerns and needs, instead of theirs. Who then would be faced without "one person, one vote" representation ? Or should "they" just wait for representation until redistricting occurs? Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Phyllis Kahn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] Third ward race Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:46:23 -0600 Nobody asked me to make my personal endorsement, but I've been working for Olin Moore's campaign since the beginning of January. Besides having worked with him for years (campaigns and other stuff), I want a candidate who lives in and will continue to live in the ward. As a resident of the new 3rd ward, and disenfranchised by this election taking place in the old third ward, I have a particular stake in this selection. I fully expect a complete city council election in 2003, either through legislative or court action. An election 15 years after the census (in 2005) makes a mockery of "one person- one vote", one of the cornerstones of democracy. Olin is one of the few candidates from the original field who lives in both wards (and has lived on the North Side). (And also supports a 2003 election.) I understand that Don Samuels has not promised to move within the boundaries of the new third ward, even if elected. (If, I'm wrong on this point, I expect a Samuels supporter to correct me.) One of the principles of representative government is residency so I would prefer to have a now and future resident elected. I also find it outrageous that one ward (6) has two resident council members and another (8), has none, but that's really an issue for a general elections piece, not a Third Ward discussion. Finally, to John Kremer, worried about Southside involvement in NE issues, the freeway fight 30+ years ago was over Hiway 335, not 394. It did not get built because I passed an amendment stopping it in state law with the help of an important Southside resident, Martin Sabo, then Speaker of the House. Phyllis Kahn State Rep. 59B TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Has R.T. peaked? Meddling Mayor Rybak and Stenglein support Samuels,
It really hasn't very much at all to do with whether or not the greens are or are not "pro-labor". I had the opportunity to befriend the first publicly elected "Green-Party" official in the U.S. - Kelly Weaverling (yes, I voted for him). He was as pro-labor as you can get. As are Don Samuels and RT Rybak. To assert, as Dyna has often, that Don Samuels is anti-labor is absurd. Without even knowing anything about an individual, how could anyonebelieve that an immigrant that has not won the power ball, or inherited a large sum of money be anti-labor? Did he somehow mystically leap-frog over a few levels of society right out of college? Is his address in North Minneapolis just a PO Box that forwards mail to a plush home in an affluent part of Minneapolis? Apparently, unfounded judgements are being made. Dennis Plante Jordan From: Annie Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: dyna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Mpls] Has R.T. peaked? Meddling Mayor Rybak and Stenglein support Samuels, Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 00:32:16 -0600 What makes you think that Greens aren't pro-labor? Annie Young East Phillips At 11:57 PM 1/26/03 -0600, dyna wrote: I was at a DFL event today and noted the reappearance of the Sharon Sayles-Belton for Mayor button. I feel sorry for R.T.- he barely takes office and the city gets hit with it's biggest financial crisis in memory. It ain't gonna be pretty, and a lot of oxen, sacred cows, and various pet projects won't just be gored or sacrificed- they're going to slaughter. R.T. and the council will get to fight over who gets to hold the smoking electrodes... Now the traditional solution to this problem is to follow the political Peter Principle- run for higher office. Unfortunately for R.T. there are no statewide offices up for election in 2004, and thank goddess Congressman Sabo is not about to give up his seniority. So R.T. is stuck for the full term. If he wants to run for reelection or for Governor in 2006 he needs to find a scapegoat for Minneapolis' financial crisis. Now the Republicans have this act down to an art- they simply blame those "greedy public employees". Being as taxpayers far outnumber public employees this sick strategy usually works. Perhaps R.T. is going to steal a page from the republican playbook and balance the city budget on the backs of city workers? To pull this fiscal atrocity off R.T. would need some votes on the city council, at least enough to sustain a veto. With 3 Council Members behind him in bucking the pro labor DFL majority, R.T. needs only the support of the other Green Party Council Member and the election of Don Samuels to give him those 5 votes to sustain his veto of any city budget respectful of labor. If this is what R.T. Rybak is planning it's a desperation tactic- he'd be more likely to be reelected by respecting and working with city workers to solve the cities financial crisis rather than disrespecting them. standing up for working folks and Olin Moore in Hawthorne, Dyna Sluyter -- TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] R.T. et al, please let us 3rd ward residents decide
Whereas I was at the endorsement rally for Don on Saturday morning, I thought it might be appropriate for me to tell what I know about the well-off gentleman from the suburbs driving the Land Rover, that spoke with Dyna on Saturday. His name is John Odell. On April 1st he'll be my new neighbor across the alley on 27th James/Knox, as he just purchased the property and has a move-in date of 04/01/03. From what I know of John, his biggest fault seems to lie in the fact that he spends far too much time on community-related issues and not nearly enough time securing his financial future. In fact, John is a reformed segregationist that feels very strongly about the need to empower the disenfranchised segment of our society. Some may find this to be a dispicable act. I however, applaud him. I personally feel that I'll live in a much better neighborhood, whenthe neighbors living around mebelieve that their voice is as important as mine is. Dennis Plante Jordan From: dyna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] R.T. et al, please let us 3rd ward residents decide Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:41:17 -0600 I read with no great surprise the announcement of southsider R.T. Rybak's attempt to manipulate the 3rd ward race. R.T., those of us who live on the poorer side of the Great Northern tracks can quite well figure out who to support without your unrequested advice. We 3rd ward DFLers heard out all the candidates, including yours, and decided to endorse Olin Moore. Apparently you and your pack of outside interests have no respect for our 3rd ward process. The flier containing the formal announcement of R.T.'s endorsement was just delivered to me by a well off gentlemen from the suburbs driving a new Land Rover. No surprise- it's quite obvious Don Samuels' support comes from outside the 3rd ward, and given the republican tone of Don Samuels' candidacy I am not at all surprised to see wealthy suburbanites campaigning for him. For the Northside slice of the 3rd to be represented by a Northeaster who didn't give a damn about us was bad enough. Now we have southsiders and wealthy suburbanites carpetbagging in our Northside 3rd ward too. It's time to take back the 3rd ward- vote for a real 3rd ward Labor Endorsed DFLer, Olin Moore! from the 'hood in Hawthorne, Dyna Sluyter -- TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] 3rd Ward Elections - The State DFL Weighs-In
I am simply amazed. I received what appears to be a "sample ballot" (at least the wording appears on it) in my mail yesterday. In review of the literature piece (front side the"endorsed candidate", backside Martin Sabo) I learned that the piece had been generated and paid for by the STATE DFL COMMITTEE. Can anyone find precedent of thisEVER having been done for aDFL candidate in a city council election?? Anyone?Who (within the state dfl) would be in a position to make such a decision? About a half-hour later, I received a phone call from an individual representingendorsed candidate. It was very apparent in talking with the individual thatthey were not at all familiar with the issues of the 3rd ward. In checking later in the evening, I was told by a reliable source that the phone calls were actually being made from a phone bank in St Cloud. If I am not mistaken, Eric Mitchell stated on the 3rd party issues list that the state dfl would NOT be lending resources in this election. I guess I should have asked for clarification. Also if I am not mistaken, it was very clearly explained by the city dfl chair that if the endorsed candidate did NOT win the election, it would NOT be considered an unmitigated disaster, as both of the candidates running were "from" the dfl party. If this were the case, wouldn't one think that the state dfl would allow the election to run its course? It would seem to me that a better use (by the state dfl) of the monies expended in generating and mailing the "lit piece" might have been to do community outreach in disenfranchised areas JUST LIKE North Minneapolis, in an effort to build a stronger base for their party. Afterall, isn't this the stated #1 priority of the city dfl for the year 2003? Dennis Plante JordanProtect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: 3rd Ward Elections - The State DFL Weighs-In
Tim Bonham wrote; Dennis would do better to discuss the merits of his candidate, rather than pretend amazement at the standard Sample Ballot mailing. Tim Bonham, Ward 12, Standish-Ericsson Where to begin? I don't believe my original post was meant to deal with the merits of the candidate I support. I was simply pointing out the things that a true grassroots effort must contend with, even at a local level. I find it somewhatridiculous that you feel like you're in a position to remindme of what it is exactly, that I should and should not be discussing regarding this election. Whereas we've never met each other Tim, I think it'd be fair of me to say that you're assuming that I "pretend" to be amazed. You are in fact, incorrect in your assumption. I am amazed. While I don't imply that the state dfl is breaking any laws by sending out a "sample ballot" for a single candidate, in a special election for a city council seat. I believe I have the right as a citizen of the 3 ward to express my displeasure in the fact that people from outside my ward are attempting to determine who will represent me on the city council. In my opinion, local politics should be decided locally. I contendthat it's the dfl's own inability to have adequately served theresidentsof the3 ward that places it in the position it currently finds itself in this election. Why do 3 of the top 6 finishers from the primary election all openly endorse and support Don, instead of Olin? Why does the County Commissioner serving this area (who by the way lives in ward 3 NE), openly endorse Don? Why doso many of the recognized names active with local politics, both North AND NEopenly support Don? Why does the mayor of Minneapolis openly endorse Don? Why are all of Don's lit drops, yard sign installationsandphone banks staffed by true "grassroots" volunteers? My wife coordinates the volunteers and has actually had to turn prospective volunteers away lately, as we've got more people than we have work. There are onlya fewconclusions one can come to: Don has all of these people fooled. They all have an "axe to grind" with the dfl. They are supporting and endorsing the candidate they believe will do the best job for the 3rd ward. The question the dfl should ask itself is - which conclusion works best for us? Dennis Plante Jordan TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
One has only to park at a convenient vantage point along I35, or I94 during rush-hour and watch the direction the traffic flows (in the morning and the evening) to determine whether or not the state auditors' assesment is "on target". Mnneapolis (and St Paul), provide the lifeblood for majority ofsuburbanites. To assume that an across the board (in LGA) cut affects the suburbs and urban areas equally is absurd. Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Jim MCGUIRE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Local Government Aid Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:58:25 -0600 A couple of things struck me about Pat Awada's report. First was her conclusion that "the more money given to local governments the more they spend" which I file under "Duh!". I think she was trying to say that the spending is the result of the giving as opposed to need. This may be, but is not neccessarily, the case. The spending can just as easily be based on need and thus the larger amounts given are related to need and, logically, get spent. That's the smaller point, however. The larger issue is a question of philosophy. Pat Awada feels that libraries and parks are "non-essential". I do not. These are quality of life issues for communities. Once we've agreed that such things are needed to bolster our communities there comes the question of who's responsible for supporting them. If we want government involvement the question becomes how to pay for them. The LGA program was part of the "Minnesota Miracle" which moved such costs away from local governments who rely on regressive property taxes to the state which relies on a (theoretically) progressive income tax as well as a regressive sales tax and other revenue. The Republicans have decided to move the burden of "non-essential" services back to local governments, and thus back onto regressive property taxes. The other result, intentional or not, is to punish the inner cities. Jim McGuire Como _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: Fwd: [Mpls] Unneeded Air Cargo means Noisy Night Flights
Most commercial jets are designed so that they are easily configured for either passengers or cargo. A good case in point - many of the NW Airlines jets you've all flown on probably at one point had the seats stripped out of them and were used to transport seafood from Alaska to destinations in the south. It might be more prudent to look at the pros and cons of this issue in light of whether or not additional business can be generated for the area than whether or not the area "needs" another international air carrier. It might be wise to check the range capabilities of modernjet aircraft, and international air-cargo traffic terminus patternsbefore determining whether a venture of this type is viable. BTW-most non-retail air cargo does not require night flights as it is not sensitive to consumer requirements. Dennis Plante former CPM and logistics director from Alaska currently living in - JordanSTOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Leading the march?
Dee: Isn't that taking politcal correctness to an extreme? I'd be willing to bet most of the protesters were also wearing man-made synthetic materials for outer-wear. Does that mean they believe less strongly on the need to find a peaceful solution to the issue in Iraq? Sometimes I think our greatest fault (as a society) is to over-think things. Gas-guzzling SUV's are fairly low on the list of "important things that need fixing". Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Dee Long" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Minneapolis Issues (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] Leading the march? Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:43:06 -0600 (Sorry, David, but these comments ARE Mpls specific) I heard from a friend in attendance at Saturday's march/rally that a FORD EXPEDITION was the lead vehicle for the anti-war committee. While I support the goals of the committee and the march, I couldn't help but notice the supreme irony of this gesture. Driving a 12 mpg SUV while surrounded by signs proclaimiing "No Blood for Oil", "Draft SUV Drivers" and "How Did Our Oil Get Under Their Sand?" is a really appalling bit of hypocrisy! Dee Long East Isles TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] My First Apartment
My 1st apartment was a homestead cabin 5 miles through the woods from the nearest neighbor. No electricity, a hand pump (and outhouse) out back. Rent was my sweat equity in fixing-up an old house that hadn't been lived in for forty-odd years. When I think back on it, it makes me realize the difference between the things I "need" and the things I "want". I would have to agree however, that for rent to be truly affordable (in an urban environment), it should not exceed30% of the gross household income. Dennis Plante JordanThe new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Minneapolis is the state economic engine and a net contributor
Vicky Writes It is my duty as a taxpayer to present the other side of a frothy argument. Sorry. First, if Minneapolis residents pay more income and sales taxes in 2003 than they did in 2001, we would be quite an anomaly. Tax collections have dropped through the floor over the past two years. Second, the people who can and do pay income and sales taxes will continue to do so - no matter where they live within Minnesota. In other words, if the property taxes in Minneapolis drive taxpayers and businesses to the suburbs, the State loses NOTHING. Minneapolis must compete with other cities. The cities that deliver the highest quality services and amenities at the most reasonable cost win. Think of the State as Mom - proudly watching her children (the cities) figure out how to stand on their own two feet. Mom is still willing to subsidize some mistakes - but not forever. Quite frankly, I don't know if Minneapolis is an economic engine or an economic Shop Vac. What I do know is that it's a lot cheaper to live in North Oaks - at least for now. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside taxpayer and North Oaks resident Dennis responds: I am sure it is cheaper to live COMPARABLY in North Oaks than in Minneapolis. The point that you may be missing however is that many of thepeopleliving in Minneapolis couldn'tliveCOMPARABLY in North Oaks at the same cost. Is it possible that part of the income youenjoy that allows you to live "more cheaply" in North Oaks is derived by your ownership of propertiesin Minneapolis? A not so good analogy might be that you don't go to a Lexus dealership to by a Chevrolet. They can be purchased more cost-effectively at a Chevrolet dealership. However, the Chevrolet dealership sells infinitely more cars and provides more jobs to the economy than does the Lexus dealership. But then again, in tough economic times, maybe we should just have the Chevrolet owners walk to work, instead of buying new cars. Dennis Plante JordanMSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] messmakers
Clearly, the issue revolves around attaching clear "ownership" to the problems associated withinhabitants of properties, whether they be owners or renters. While most would agree that owner-occupants probably feel more of an incentive in keeping their properties "up to snuff", some renters do as well. I suspect the real issue revolves around looking at the "whole picture". In neighborhoods such as Jordan (where I live), where rental-occupied dwelling out-number owner-occupied dwellings, we should ask ourselves whether or not we have set-up a system in our city government that affords communities such as Jordan a chance at havinga reasonably "clean" neighborhood. I don't think anyone would disagree that enforcement (by inspectors, the police, and animal control) of ordinances should be consistent throughout the city. A property, livability, or animal ordinance violation in Kenwood should also be a a violation in Jordan. If there is agreement on this issue, than we should then probably look at where the problem lies. Is it because less-affluent neighborhoods have a higher percentage of renters? Or, is it because we haven't (as a city government) set-up an effective manner with which to deal with violations? I personally find it somewhat humurous that my wife and I were recently "visited" by an animal control officer that gave us a written "warning" regarding the dog feces in our yard. Apparently, there is a formula that's used to determine excess amounts of Dog "poo"". However, on the block on which we live there are a minimum of 5 unlicensed rental properties. I live one-block from where the "melee" occurred last fall (26th Knox) and have personally played a part in having 7 individuals dealing drugs on that very same street corner in the last two-weeks. I still go down to the street corner on Friday evenings (with a group of neighbors) in an attempt to "disrupt" the drug trade by my house. This last Friday evening, we picked-up three 30-gallon bags of trash from in front of the rental property (the Powell house). The Powell's by the way, still live there. They moved-out briefly last fall, while the landlord brought the property back-up to minimal standards. On an interesting side note. While standing outside on the street corner Friday evening, one of the many groups that passed by were four children. Two girls and two boys. The two boys were walking down the sidewalk smoking a joint (ages 9 15). I was somewhat incensed by this, as the nine year-old was holding the joint. Upon confronting the children, I learned that yes indeed the mother of the nine year-old was aware that her son smoked pot, but there wasn't anything she could do about it. In speaking directly to the nine year-old it became apparent tome that he was your typical nine year-old child, with the exception that he has no parental guidance. In my opinion, everything in a community ties together. It's pretty unreasonable to expect that a renter will keep their property at a "minimal" standard, when they aren't able to stop their nine year-old from smoking pot. Especially when there's no clear incentive (either through fines, or threat of eviction) to do so. Dennis Plante Jordan Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Federal Mediation
Michelle: I'd truly like to believe your rendition of events related to the mediation. However, as someone that lives one block away from26th and Knox, that personally made roughly 20-30 of the roughlyfour hundred911 calls related to thatstreet corner (precipitating the serving of the warrant), I am somewhat skeptical. It was mentioned that most of the "disgruntled" residents were "rich, white people". I have news for you, there are farmore african americans that were involved in the process of making those calls than there were whites. While I agree with you that the police force (in Minneapolis) needs to be reviewed and that drastic changes need to be made, I, as a resident of North Minneapolis, am very dismayed by your inability to recognize the other issues surrounding many of these police/citizen confrontations. Being poor, or black (or both) SHOULD entitle an individual to the same rights and privileges as being white, or affluent (or both). However, to be successful in our efforts to precipitate change, we must be able (and willing) to look at issues objectively. I recently lostmy battlein mentoring a 15 year-old disadvantaged youth to drug-dealing on that street corner (26th Knox). He was arrested (twice)and placed in a halfway home, only to fall victim (a 3rd time) to the plight of boys his age in my neighborhood. He had no parents to guide him and possibly,offer him an alternative role model. It wasleft up to a neighbor, that feels horrible for having failed. The "pit of despair" as I call that street corner is very real, and has a HUGE impact on the young african american males in my community. Most of them never have a chance to grow-up and lead productive lives. It is easier to look upon the issue of "police brutality" as the singular cause of the current plight of our neighborhood, than it is to spread the blame around, where it belongs. While I am not pleased with the current leadership of the Minneapolis Police Force, I am no less pleased by the ability of the activists involved with changing the current process into something that will allow harmonyto exist in ourmulti-racial community. You hit the nail on the headin ONE excerpt of your "report"on last Augusts' melee. Most of the citizens in Jordan are both law-abiding AND want a peaceful neighborhood. To sacrifice the safety of this majority, by overlooking acts that are truly wrong, is no less wrong, than what you so stridently and ardently are trying to change. Dennis Plante Jordan Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Property Taxes for a Mpls Home (compared to affordable housing in Nor
Probably somewhat of a myopic view, butwith regards to the proposedLGA cuts, anyone have any idea as to - how many people live inMinneapolis proper and work elsewhere vs. how many people live elsewhere and work in Minneapolis proper? Afterall, to collect taxes, you have to have a gainfully employed tax base. Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Beth Popalisky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Mpls] Property Taxes for a Mpls Home (compared to affordable housing in Nor Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 11:03:42 -0600 Ok, My original post has taken on a tone that I, for one, never intended. I meant simply to point out that the property taxes in Minneapolis are already higher than many of the suburbs. With that in mind, the extremes cuts in LGA will impact city dwellers even harder. I did not intend for this to be a suburban vs. city issue. I simply was trying to encourage people to express their viewpoints to the governor about the impact of LGA cuts on both taxpayers and services. With that in mind, this city gal, (and always will be because she loves it and has nothing against people who live in the suburbs) will go back to lurking. Beth Popalisky East-Harriet Farmstead Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Lead removal v.s. MAC 150
Many of thehabits exhibited by children are what cause them to be more likely to contract lead poisoning. Young children are continually coming into contact with floors/lower walls with their hands and then putting their hands into their mouths (something most adults don't do nearly as frequently). One of the more likely surfaces (in a house) are old window sashes and door frames.Opening and closing windows creates friction between the sash and frame, which in turn, causes miniscule particles of paint "dust" to be loosened and fall to the surrounding area. Another very likely cause is the scraping of house exteriorsprior to painting. While this practice became more highly regulated a few years ago, there are scrapings from prior paintings still lying in the dirt/grass alongside many of the pre-70's houses. If I had children, I would certainly spring for the cost of testing my home, as the effects of lead poisoning are both horrible and irreversible. Early symptoms, especially in younger children are very hard to detect. Dennis Plante Jordan MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] City cuts the number of Police Officers - Penny Wiseand DollarFoolish
An interesting point - without a doubt, the sequential order (of the top 3) of budgetary significance, would be police, fire and public works. In review of the proposed budget cuts, the question begs to be asked - are the cuts going to affect ALL citizens equally? I might not be approaching this from an unbiased position, as I live in Jordan. However, my "issues" are related more to public safety than they are to public works and park amenities. I'd much rather have to "live with the insufferable issue" of not having a two wading pools somewhere in South Minneapolis, than I would live with the fact that there aren't enough squads to respond to basic livability issues on the north side. Even when times were good (budget-wise), I can remember more than one occasion last year, while standing out on the corner of 26th Knox Av N, being told by the 911 dispatcher that there was NOT a squad available to respond to my call of an individual dealing drugs (after watching them make several transactions) in the near vacinity. While I am trying to find empathy for those that live in other neighborhoods, and are faced with cuts to their wading pools, and crosswalk painting, it's hard. Is there any guarantee that the proposed cuts (especially within public safety) are going to be made proportionately? Or should I just plan on meeting my wife at Lake Calhoun after we both get off from work, so that I can experience a livable standard? Dennis Plante JordanTired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] No more crime?
Pretty Clear-cut revenue producer running a ramp-light. It's much more costly to apprehend drug dealers on the street corner. Our judicial system doesn't impose a very stiff penalty on them. Apparently, you're more of a "threat" running a red light than you are dealing drugs and toting a gun :) Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Leurquin, Ronald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] No more crime? Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:40:53 -0500 I need to vent a bit. Forgive me. As our fine city debates cutting police, fire, etc. This very morning the worst crimes in Northeast Mpls were people running the ramp meters. How wonderful that I live in such a Utopia. If that's all the force could find for that man to do why don't they put him on another shift where he is needed more. Is it impossible to put these officers to work on worse crimes than running ramp meters? Maybe running red lights, even? Ronald Leurquin Waite Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Fwd: RE: Liberating N. Mpls. Making it a fine City
Although I have not asked permission, I don't believe the original sender would mind my posting this on the forum list. This is a post sent to our neighborhood group on our neighborhood email list. This is the cummulative result of our neighborhood effortsto move the thugs of the street corner at 26th Knox. They moved east ONE BLOCK. I find it somewhat interesting that while I stood outside the police tape roughly 3 weeks ago at the scene of the homicide/wounding roughly 1/2 block from my house, that I was told by a neighbor that I WAS the problem I am white, she was not. In her mind, is firmly planted the concept that if "we" would just provide more jobs for these individuals,the problem of violence gangs would go away. Where's theaccountability at a family level?? All of the individuals currently terrorizing my neighborhood we/are children of someone. What were they taught growing-up?? One injustice deserves another?? In addition to the illegal activity listedbelow, the individuals (on the corner) have now taken-up gambling on the sidewalk as an activity to "fill-time" during off-peak sales hours. I know of several neighbors that have flagged-down squads only to receive an unresponsive (at best) response to their concerns. In what is becoming a more accepted occurence in my neighborhood, I was awakened abruptly by someone emptying the clip (14 rounds) of a large calibre handgun Mondaymorning around 2am. I've become so used to it that my reaction was as if the dog had just jumped onto my bed and awakened me. I rolled over and went back to sleep. The way I see it, I have three choices: 1) Accept things as they are now. 2) Flee to the suburbs, as most reasonable/non-confrontational individuals have. 3) Fight back. It's time the residents of Jordan realize that the government isn't going to and can't solve the problems it faces. Thugs and gangs only exist in communities that remain indifferent to their activities. I grew-up in a very poor, small farming community in northern Maine. To make matters worse, we were 1st generation "outsiders" in an area that was steeped in family history and entitlement. NOT ONCE as a child growing-up was I taught that it was okay, or acceptable to act in an illegal manner because of the social injustice I faced. Instead, I was taught that I was accountable to society as an individual. NOTHING will ever change (in the inner city) until parents start teaching this philosophy, and neighbors start acting like neighbors again. I am saddened by the lack of understanding on the part of many of my neighbors that a problem two-blocks from their house today could very well be a problem in FRONT of their house tomorrow. It is time for communities in Minneapolis to realize that their problems are their own. The City Government will not solve them. We project the outcome. I'd be interested in hearing any ideas/solutions (other than legalizing drug sales in Jordan) any of you might have. Dennis Plante Jordan Kelly and I live at 26th and James andwe have watched the street level crime jump to a frenzy this summer. We call the cops several times a day, we have approached neighbors to tell them it is OK to call police, we have made special appeals to the 4th precinct and the Chief, I have even confronted the dealers myself. They are young (around 14 to 18), but they have got this dealing, littering, cursing,thug life,thing down. The cops are there frequently, but more often than not I see the kids scatter before the cops roll by. They have some early detection system, which suggests organization. 26thStreetNorth and James is an obvious gang hangout. They are holding us hostage for the moment. One neighbor is trying to sell her house, to move her young and impressionable children from this caldron, but so far everyone comments on their fears of this nieghborhood. She is so frustrated she is ready t o give her house away. Can someone call up the national guard? We need your help and those young men on the street need a new direction. Aaron Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*---BeginMessage--- Kelly and I live at 26th and James andwe have watched the street level crime jump to a frenzy this summer. We call the cops several times a day, we have approached neighbors to tell them it is OK to call police, we have made special appeals to the 4th precinct and the Chief, I have even confronted the dealers myself. They are young (around 14 to 18), but they have got this dealing, littering, cursing,thug life,thing down. The cops are there frequently, but more often than not I see the kids scatter before the cops roll by. They have some early detection system, which suggests organization. 26thStreetNorth and James is an obvious gang hangout. They are holding us hostage for the moment. One neighbor is trying to sell her house, to move her young and impressionable children from this caldron, but so far ev
Re: [Mpls] Alleged Rolling '30s gang member shot at gas station
The Bloods are starting to show-up in numberson the Northside lately. Especially above Lowry Av N. It's not unusual to see them walking in groups rightdown the middle of the street with a "bring-it-on" attitude. They're starting to deal on 26th Av N now as well. Dennis Plante Jordan From: "List Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] Alleged Rolling '30s gang member shot at gas station Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:45:21 -0500 http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3923942.html David Brauer List manager TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Media coverage of bike patrol officer and young boy
Michelle: Apparently there are two people with the same name working in the Mayor's office. The Kinshasa Kambui I know cares very deeply and has worked very hard on the issue of civil rights. To suggest that she is not concerned about the issue of civil rights, because she may not have agreed to the existing proposed structure for mediation is for me, personally unbelievable. In fact, in my opinion, had we had the type of leadership Kinshasa has exhibited on the civil rightsissue in City Hall for the last 3 decades, we wouldn't be facing thedivisive issues currently before us. We can debate the issue of whether or not the existing proposed structure for mediation would have worked until the "cows come home". And it is fair to list those that did not support it as detractors of the proposed process. However, it is I believe, very unfair tosuggest thatchampions of civil rights, like Kinshasa,are disinterested in the process of civil rights, because she may not have been a supporter of the mediation process. Dennis Plante Jordan The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Media coverage of bike patrol officer and young boy
Okay, so let me get this straight. Because an entity is "beholden to the City" (a yet as undefined term), their voice has no credibility in the process of mediation? Who determined this? Those that wanted to take part and had never received financial (or other) assistance? It appears to me that the "kiss of death" in having a voice in the process is trying to work within the existing system by establishing a dialogue with and possibly receiving funding (at least in part) from the city. Maybe, just maybe, some individuals believe that the best way to facilitate change is to change the power structurefrom within. Honest dialogue and subsequent honest solutions come when as many voices as possible are heard. Forgive me and many others with divergent interests for not understanding that the process was already fully in place. I find it somewhat ironic that the individuals that appear to most ardently support mediation can't believe that someone else might have a different take on things. It makes me wonder where the process might of ended-up had it moved forward. I am saddened by the fact that your statements alone Michelle, make me confident that you've never sat-down and discussed this issue with Kinshasa, otherwise, I'msure you wouldn't feel this way. Dennis Plante Jordan Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*---BeginMessage--- The role that Ms. Kambui played is significantly different that just disagreeing with the proposed structure of federal mediation (which, under DOJ protocols calls for the community, not the city, to select its representation). Her role has been to undermine that potential avenue for change by coopting it with people who are financially beholden to the city. She put that sham community team together by design, for the purpose of making certain that no change will result. Under DOJ guidelines, since she is a city employee she should have had NO ROLE in putting together the community team but there she was, doing the selecting and inviting. Further, this is not the first time I have seen Ms. Kambui play this role. She is enamored of power and loyal to her bosses to the point of selling out the community. I have no doubt that Ms. Kambui cares about civil rights. I just think she cares about power even more. Michelle Gross Bryn Mawr At 12:05 PM 6/8/03 -0500, Dennis Plante wrote: Michelle: Apparently there are two people with the same name working in the Mayor's office. The Kinshasa Kambui I know cares very deeply and has worked very hard on the issue of civil rights. To suggest that she is not concerned about the issue of civil rights, because she may not have agreed to the existing proposed structure for mediation is for me, personally unbelievable. In fact, in my opinion, had we had the type of leadership Kinshasa has exhibited on the civil rights issue in City Hall for the last 3 decades, we wouldn't be facing the divisive issues currently before us. We can debate the issue of whether or not the existing proposed structure for mediation would have worked until the cows come home. And it is fair to list those that did not support it as detractors of the proposed process. However, it is I believe, very unfair to suggest that champions of civil rights, like Kinshasa, are disinterested in the process of civil rights, because she may not have been a supporter of the mediation process. Dennis Plante Jordan The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ---End Message---
Re: [Mpls] Ms. Kambui's role in federal mediation
MG: The Spokesman-Recorder has clearly outlined the split within the Black community over the issue of "poverty pimps" (term used by community members) who take money from the city and who play the role of keeping community members "in their place." All the time that we were having community meetings to prepare for mediation, literally hundreds of people urged us not to make a place for these poverty pimps on the community team. The overwhelming sentiment expressed: "They don't represent us." Despite this, going into the nominating meeting for the community team, we had a slot on the team for a black minister and a slot for traditional black leadership, at the recommendation of the federal mediator. However, the Black community members voted these slots off the slate, stating they were sick of sell-outs and wanted to decide for themselves how to represent their community. It didn't help one bit that those groups could not be bothered to show up at the community meeting or that they told the paper they thought they should just automatically be on the team (i.e. not answerable to the community). Ultimately, the community members present chose emerging leaders from their community to fill those slots. DP-In your attempts to make mediation truly representative of the needs of the community, as you so fervently desire, can you tell me specifically who originated these community meetings andwho was notified of them? You also mention that the overwhelming sentitment was "they (the "poverty pimps") don't represent us". Was this overwhelming sentiment expressed by the overwhelming majority of the community, or just the overwhelming majority of those notified that attended the "meetings". I have yet to see any statistics supporting this that substantiate the claim that the "City" torpedoed the process. You see Michelle, where it may be fair for you to say that the "poverty pimps" don't represent the views you subscribe to, it is equallyfair to say that your views aren't necessarily the ones subscribed to by all members of the community that feel oppressed. Do I believe there were games played in the process? Absolutely, and by BOTH sides. Do I believe mediation is a bad thing? Nope... I just would like to see a wider range of voices included in the process. It's the fair thing and the right thing to do. If I'm not mistaken, that's probably what Kinshasa was working towards. Dennis Plante JordanHelp STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Ms. Kambui's role in federal mediation
MG Writes:
Dennis, short of conducting expensive surveys, I don't know how in the world we would have measured the sentiment of the majority of the community. Frankly, I'm not interested in what most white folks have to say on the issue, since this is a question of who will represent the Black community. What we got was the sentiment of the hundreds of Black folks who cared about the issue enough to either show up at the two big community meetings, smaller neighborhood meetings, or who talked to us as we went door-to-door in the neighborhoods. But you need to know that these folks were passionate about their position--to the point of folks standing up and saying it over and over. Beyond the issues/demands to be raised, the most common concern was who would represent the community and folks were adamant that it not be the "poverty pimps" (their term) and they named the very people that Kinshasha put on the "community" team. <
BR>DP Writes:
If you're goal is to seat representatives that voice the concerns of the majority of the community, youought tobe concerned with the sentiment of the "majority" of the community. If you haven't achieved this very basic goal, you should feel that you've failed in your core objective. I am particularly incensed that you feel that the majority of the blacks that "care enough" either listen to the radio stations you listed, read the newspaper you mentioned, or got the Strib on the day you mentioned. As far as the "thousands" of flyers that were distributed, I nor none of my neighbors (that I know of) received one. Be they "black" or "white".
What exactly makes you think that you have to be "black" to have real concerns with how MPD discharges its duties? How do you ever expect to achieve a credible position with that attitude? It might behoove you and your camp to start caring a little more about what "most white folks" have to say on the issue. Not only could "they" become important allies for the cause, "they" ("white folks") unfortunately, still wield a lot of political power at the city level. Oddly enough, a large part of the problem that has prompted the need for mediation is caused by the _expression_ of the EXACT SAMERHETORIC - from both sides of the issue. To dismiss someone (by calling them "white folk") from either the process, or voicing their concern over theprocess, is very indicative of the position you're taking and is quite possibly, responsible for the failure (to date) of the process.
One thing I've learned during my 44-years on this planet. Listen to the rhetoric and let your "gut" take you to somewhere in the middle of both sides.
If you were willing to list the names of individuals you and your camp were opposed to (for the community team), for every detractor (from the community) for the so-called "poverty pimps", I could also easily list a supporter(again from the community). Apparently however,because they didn't "care enough to attend your meetings, their voices don't count. To dismiss someone's voice, BECAUSE they don't agree with your voice is exactly what got us here in the 1st place. It appears that's Kinshasa's failing.
There are MANY supporters (both "black" and "white") of the need to overhaul MPD, they ALL need to allow myriad of voices on the issue to exist.
Dennis Plante
Jordan
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Re: [Mpls] Of toilet paper, toothpaste, and Target options
It's in Target's best interest to make sure the Broadway store-front doesn't sit empty any longer than necessary, as although Target is currently ponying-up to the "public trough" for any subsidized assistance, they still have a relationship to maintain with the commuity they call home. Twenty-some-odd years ago, while living in Alaska, I researched and developed a logistical plan that greatly improved the existing steamship shipping into and out of central Alaska (about a 300 millionanual market). Thecircumstances were "right" to offer the up-start Totem Ocean Trailer Express (TOTE), and opportunity togain market share over the majority competitor Sea-LandServices Inc (owned by CSX Rail). Thegist of the story - TOTEsaw no downside to my proposal. At the very worst, they were allowed the opportunity to "rub Sea-Lands' nose into doo-doo" (publicly) in their own backyard. If it were me, and I were the City, I'd make a couple of phone calls to Wall-Mart and K-Mart. To think that at some point in past discussions (w/ the City) regarding public subsidies, that Target Reps didn't play the "we're still operating and losing money in the inner-city" trump card to gain the public assistance, would be an oversight in my opinion. It's appropriate (again in my opinion) that someone hold their feet to the fire. Dennis Plante JordanAdd photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Of toilet paper, toothpaste, and Target options
It's in Target's best interest to make sure the Broadway store-front doesn't sit empty any longer than necessary, as although Target is currently ponying-up to the "public trough" for any subsidized assistance, they still have a relationship to maintain with the commuity they call home. Twenty-some-odd years ago, while living in Alaska, I researched and developed a logistical plan that greatly improved the existing steamship shipping into and out of central Alaska (about a 300 millionanual market). Thecircumstances were "right" to offer the up-start Totem Ocean Trailer Express (TOTE), and opportunity togain market share over the majority competitor Sea-LandServices Inc (owned by CSX Rail). Thegist of the story - TOTEsaw no downside to my proposal. At the very worst, they were allowed the opportunity to "rub Sea-Lands' nose into doo-doo" (publicly) in their own backyard. If it were me, and I were the City, I'd make a couple of phone calls to Wall-Mart and K-Mart. To think that at some point in past discussions (w/ the City) regarding public subsidies, that Target Reps didn't play the "we're still operating and losing money in the inner-city" trump card to gain the public assistance, would be an oversight in my opinion. It's appropriate (again in my opinion) that someone hold their feet to the fire. Dennis Plante JordanMSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Less lethal weapons are readily available.....
It's not the weapons, it's how they (the officers) are being taught to use them that's the problem. I'm trying to visualize the situation - Officer (on attempting to detrmine appropriate force) to person they're trying to apprehend, "do you have a gun, a knife, a club, or are you unarmed?". Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Victoria Heller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mpls Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] Less lethal weapons are readily available. Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:31:36 -0500 Less Lethal Weapons.Why Not the MPD? (Nasdaq: TASR) TASER International, Inc. provides advanced less-lethal weapons for use in the law enforcement, private security and personal defense markets. Our flagship ADVANCED TASER(R) product has reduced officer injuries by over 80% in the Orange County (FL) Sheriff's Office, and reduced suspect injuries by over 72% in the Phoenix (AZ) Police Department. The ADVANCED TASER is saving lives, reducing liability and creating safer jobs in over 2,500 law enforcement agencies worldwide. TASER International's new TASER X26 with Shaped Pulse(TM) technology is 60% smaller and lighter, further enhancing the usability of this life saving technology. Call 800-978-2737 or visit our website at www.TASER.com to learn more about the new standard in less-lethal weapons. Vicky Heller, North Oaks TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] The Step Up Program
To ALL individuals reading my response. I too received this email and did some checking, as I personaly know 60-80 candidates to fill the 33 camp scholarships. On any give night (when it's not raining) I could go out onto the street on my block and approach the 20-40 youths that play basketball on the "hoop" set-up on the street. They'd probably play instead at Jordan Park, but there aren't baskets provided at the basketball court. I was intrigued by Pauls' email, until I called the program director at the U of M. His name is Tex. There are three important criteria one has to meet in order to "apply" for one of these scholarships. 1) They MUST have transportation of the St Paul U of M Campus. Drop-off is between 7:30-8:30am, and P/u is between 4-5pm (that weeds-out half the kids in my neighborhood). 2) They must be able to offer proof of medical insurance (well, there goes the other half). 3) They must have internet access to apply for the "scholarships". I don't have any statistics, but I'd suspect that any kids (in my neighborhood) that were able to "fall through the cracks" were eliminated here. I strongly urge each and every one of you ready this to write to the following person at the U of M that's responsible for this program, to voice your concern about whether or not this program is actuallyhitting its' intended market by writing a letter to the following person. Dr. Sallye McKee 432 Morrill Hall 100 Church St SE Mpls, MN 55455 Dennis Plante Jordan We need your help in finding young people to fill 33 camp scholarships. This is a great opportunity. The U of M has agreed to fund 33 scholarships to their summer camps, in order that Minneapolis kids can participate. We have 33 scholarships for Minneapolis kids (I don't think there are even income guidelines, although we'd obviously prefer that they go to economically disadvantaged kids). Any interested family should call the office of Multicultural and Academic Affairs at 612.624.0594 for info and/or to sign up. The camps are for children and young people ages 5-15, and there are spots throughout the summer available. Here's a website with more info on the camps... Please pass the info along to any interested families or community organizations that serve young people. Call me with any questions. We are really trying to fill the slots ASAP, and the first session starts Wednesday. Thanks. Paul Zerby Council Member-2nd Ward Prospect Park Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] The Step Up Program
BTB Paul - The U of M had already received 40-50 applicants by the time you sent this notification. It looks like the some of the parents in affluent neighborhoods with internet access, medical insurance and transportation, won't have to pay for day care for at least part of the summer. This program was a dismal failure, before it even started. Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Zerby, Paul G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] The Step Up Program Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:03:09 -0500 We need your help in finding young people to fill 33 camp scholarships. This is a great opportunity. The U of M has agreed to fund 33 scholarships to their summer camps, in order that Minneapolis kids can participate. We have 33 scholarships for Minneapolis kids (I don't think there are even income guidelines, although we'd obviously prefer that they go to economically disadvantaged kids). Any interested family should call the office of Multicultural and Academic Affairs at 612.624.0594 for info and/or to sign up. The camps are for children and young people ages 5-15, and there are spots throughout the summer available. Here's a website with more info on the camps... Please pass the info along to any interested families or community organizations that serve young people. Call me with any questions. We are really trying to fill the slots ASAP, and the first session starts Wednesday. Thanks. Paul Zerby Council Member-2nd Ward Prospect Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] The Step Up Program
There's GOT to be a way we can put our heads together and come-up with a way to overcome the obstacles the intended audience face in using this program. I can think of several neighbors that would be willing to set-up a car-pool system to take care of transportation. Think about it for a moment. With all the effort and energy that's already been expended in putting this program together, why not take it a step further and make it really work? It could be a turning point. -D From: "Rybak, R.T." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Barbara Lickness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Dennis Plante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Zerby, Paul G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Mpls] The Step Up Program Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:41:31 -0500 A few weeks ago I told U. Pres. Robert Bruiniks about the very serious problems with summer employment and activities. He immediately created the summer camp opportunity by calling a few key leaders and getting contributions. It was great action on his part, and a good example of his goal to have the University play a role in helping the community that surrounds it. The goal of the openings was not to have it open to just any kid. The goal has been to find kids who could not otherwise have this opportunity. Transportation has been a huge limitation. So it would be very helpful if people could help spread the wordAND especially go to families you know of whose kids could not otherwise do thisand even help find ways to get kids to the site. Brunicks and the U deserve a lot of credit for helping...and it was very impressive to see the U. Pres., who has some huge issues on his plate, make such a personal effort on behalf of kids in Minneapolis. R.T. Rybak Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] What Is Reasonable?
I understand that the City is currently going through tough financial times. However, I would be interested in views on the following. As a neighborhood, we've been successful in "cleaning-up" the activity at the corner of 26th Knox Av N. However, the activity was only displaced one block, to the corner of 26th James (actually closer to my home). On Sunday, my household (among others) made 911 calls related to drug dealing, gambling AND public urination/exposure on this street corner. As I write this, there is a group of 10-15 young men in LAWN CHAIRS gambling and dealing on the corner. There havebeen numerous calls placed to 911 in the last 1-1/2 hours regarding this activity, yet we are all toldthat a "squad is not available at this time". Last time I checked, between my property taxes and the income I've generated for the city through permit fees, etc.., I believe I've paid for a fult-time police officer myself. I'm not asking for anything special. Just a resonable response to what I think is a reasonable request. Yet, when I call the desk at the 4th precinct, the usual response is either "if you want better service, talk to the Mayor's office about the recent budget cuts", or "you should really call the City Attorney and get some of these guys locked-up so we don't have to arrest them again". I really truly wish that someone could point-out where I'm being unreasonable in my expectations. What was the name of that movie Michal Douglas did not too long ago about the lower middle-class white guy in the inner city that goes ballistic - Falling Down? Thoughts/empathy appreciated Dennis Plante JordanMSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What Is Reasonable?
Good news!! My 4th call to 911 resulted in the response that a squad "should be responding any minute". A full 2 hours and 7 minutes after receiving the 1st registered 911 call. Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Dennis Plante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] What Is Reasonable? Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:46:34 -0500 Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*---BeginMessage--- I understand that the City is currently going through tough financial times. However, I would be interested in views on the following. As a neighborhood, we've been successful in "cleaning-up" the activity at the corner of 26th Knox Av N. However, the activity was only displaced one block, to the corner of 26th James (actually closer to my home). On Sunday, my household (among others) made 911 calls related to drug dealing, gambling AND public urination/exposure on this street corner. As I write this, there is a group of 10-15 young men in LAWN CHAIRS gambling and dealing on the corner. There havebeen numerous calls placed to 911 in the last 1-1/2 hours regarding this activity, yet we are all toldthat a "squad is not available at this time". Last time I checked, between my property taxes and the income I've generated for the city through permit fees, etc.., I believe I've paid for a fult-time police officer myself. I'm not asking for anything special. Just a resonable response to what I think is a reasonable request. Yet, when I call the desk at the 4th precinct, the usual response is either "if you want better service, talk to the Mayor's office about the recent budget cuts", or "you should really call the City Attorney and get some of these guys locked-up so we don't have to arrest them again". I really truly wish that someone could point-out where I'm being unreasonable in my expectations. What was the name of that movie Michal Douglas did not too long ago about the lower middle-class white guy in the inner city that goes ballistic - Falling Down? Thoughts/empathy appreciated Dennis Plante JordanMSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ---End Message---
RE: [Mpls] Where do you buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer cd's, etc?
Personally, I can't see a downside to having Cub in our neighborhood. Regardless (go ahead and take your shots Dyna) of whether or not it's a unionized store, this neighborhood needs jobs desperately and can ill-afford to lose the Target jobs w/o replacing them at least even-up. ANY smartentrepreneur that has even an inkling of an idea for a viable retail business concept is going to take advantage of the high-volume of traffic (into Cub) and find a suitable store-front in the immediate area from which to start a business. Lastly, one thing I think all northsiders feel with regards to their neighborhood, the lack of choices available. This can be said evenabout the existing retailers. My wife and I shop at the Northside Target for staples, but don't even bother looking for anything more exotic than a tube of toothpaste, as we know we won't find it. Personally, I like the idea of having the choices of a New Market, Hudson's, Rainbow AND Cub all within4 miles of my home and I hope they all find a way to successfully stay in business. Economic development is and should be, very important to the Northside. Based upon my knowledge of the retail grocery business, Iam reasonablesurethat Cub did it's homework on this prior to committing to the purchaseof the facility. And I'm also reasonably sure that successful implementation (of the plan)wasn't contigent upon "driving" another grocer out of business. Dennis Plante Jordan The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] a tasteless sign at Pride?
Shame on Terrell Brown for expressing a personal opinion regarding the sign that Council Member Schiffassociated himself with this weekend.Freedom of speech, tolerance to other ideals (regardless of what they are)and non-conformity to a specificway of thinking, is exactly what got us to the place we're currently at. I am saddened by the fact that Senator Thurmond passed w/o havingmade aPUBLIC 180 degree about face on his position regarding civil rights. I am however, not ready as a person to rejoice in the death of ANY individual. Separate the issues for a moment. We ALL should be happy with, and celebrate the progress that's been made over the years in the area ofcivil rights (although there's still a long way to go). However, to use the crowds reaction at a Gay Pridefestival as a litmus test as to whether or not a sign reading "Goodbye Strom Thurmond"is tasteful or not, is, in my opinion,somewhat biased. Dennis Plante Jordan Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] BOYCOTT MARKET BAR-B-QUE (The e-mail)
Peter Writes: One last note: When I was growing up in Omaha, Nebraska during the 60s and 70s my parents, teachers and other grownups around me clucked their tongues in disbelief at George Wallace and those nasty racists down South who supported him. Imagine their surprise when our city, like several other cities in the North at the time, experienced race riots. So dismiss me as over-the-top, if you like, along with anyone else who strays from the safe center of political discourse. But as long as some of our elected officials are more comfortable calling attention to the racism of politicians from other regions of the country, recently deceased or not, while ignoring institutional racism in Minneapolis, we may be in for another race riot this summer more devastating than last summer's. Dennis Responds: Emotions run high on this issue. Rightfully so... What are the responsibilities both socially and personally for us (privileged class) regarding our ancestors? Is there a need to bend over backwards and right the wrongs of our ancestors? Which is more inappropriate, our (the privileged class) inability to accept that the minorities in our country don't live exactly the way we do, or the minorities (non-privileged) inability to conform to the standards we set? I live in N MPLS, and am in a multi-racial marriage. I find (myself) judging others (minorities) with the feeling of inappropriate behavior on a continual basis. I wasn't raised that way. Yet, I also find myself questioning my ability to judge what IS appropriate. Why should I be the definitive word on what is and isn't appropriate? Yet, I also find myself unfairly discriminated against by minorities BECAUSE I'm from the privileged class. Do the ones (that discriminate against me) fairly represent the minorities? No they do not... Yet they help perpetuate the divisiveness that exists. I watched the movie Enemy of the State last night (again) with my wife. One scene that left an impression on me was the one where the undercover, secret-ops agents square-off with the mafia in the restaurant. Both sides have their guns pointed at the other, waiting for someone to make a move, either dropping their weapons, or shooting. IMHO- It's the same type of stalemate we face in our society. When will BOTH sides start being more reasonable in their approach to solving the problems that exist? _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] BOYCOTT MARKET BAR-B-QUE (The e-mail)
Sorry about that, I forgot to sign my post. Dennis Plante Jordan _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Westbank crime situation
Michelle: I fail to understand how the police engaging in the withholding of services could be construed as a reason for the under-reporting of crimes on the west bank area. Wouldn't the crime have to be reported for the police to selectively withhold services? Also, how to the "gentrification forces" on the west bank stop these crimes from being reported? Is it an internal (within city government) conspiracy where the calls (by the victims) are actually made, but the internal forces just don't respond to, ordoes the "gentrification force" actually have undercover people that strong-arm victims into not reporting the crimes? In all fairness (and I can only speak formy immediate neighborhood),on a dailybasis, I witness numerous incidents (for which I call 911) of illegal activity and not only are they ALL responded to. MOST (not all) of my minority neighbors choose to turn a blind-eye. Seems to me that the issue is more an issue of trust (hopefully seating a new chief will help) than it is of conspiracy. Am I part of the gentrification force? My wife who is African American and native american, would be very surprised to find this out. Dennis Plante JordanMSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*.---BeginMessage--- At 12:59 AM 7/23/03 -0500, BARBARA L MURRAY wrote: Formerly of the West Bank, which I an now too ashamed of to claim as my neighborhood. Lots of stranger assaults going on here, teens grabbing purses and knocking women down. For some PC reason, they are not being reported. We sure can't make folks uncomfortable, or be seen as anti something by identifying thugs! I don't think there is any PC reason for this. Two reasons why these crimes are being underreported: 1) Police in the area are engaging in selective withholding of services for those crimes while at the same time focusing on harassing residents of the towers, especially immigrants/new arrivals (I'm basing this on reports CUAPB gets from that area) and, relatedly 2) The gentrification forces on the West Bank do not want these crimes to be reported as it would impact their image and gentrification efforts Michelle Gross Bryn Mawr TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ---End Message---
Re: [Mpls] Fw: Gentrification? Indeed!
If you want to do everyone a favor, including the impoverished, lower-class, maybe mobilizing to pass a city ordinance that caps the number of rental properties by neighborhood? If it is truly society's goal (in the U.S.), to afford equal oppotunity,WHY NOT force every neighborhood to accept at least some of the down-trodden? North MPLS is infamous in its reputation as a place full of crime, and it is soprimarily not because of the homeowners, or the police, but because the housing stock values allowed numerous, speculative absentee landlords to come-in, buy-up property and rent-it out to anyone that could qualify for government aid. You can debate the "finer points" all you want, but in essence, this is what has happened. By lumping impoverished minorities together into small areas like the west bank and the northside, we, as a society, regardless of all our other "well-intended" actions are continuing the cycle. So go ahead and harp about the police, the lack of responsivness from City Hall, or anything else you want to. Until everyone decides that "keeping" impoverished people contained isn't in their long-term, best interests, nothing will change. Personally, I have nothing but contempt for individuals that live in nice, middle-class neighborhoods that are working as "crusaders" against issues such as police brutality. Drive by my house 24/7 and see what I have to contend with, then drive into one of the more affluent neighborhoods, such as Bryn Mawr, or Kenwood and see what they have to contend with. As I write this, at the end of my block, there are 5-6 individuals (standing on the corner) selling drugs, and another 6-8 indivduals on the front porch of an abandoned house gambling. I make roughly 12-15 calls/week to 911 on this activity. It still occurs 24/7. Who's being brutalized? Dennis Plante Jordan Dennis Plante Jordan From: "basia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] Fw: Gentrification? Indeed! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:34:24 -0500 - Original Message - From: "basia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:05 PM Subject: Gentrification? Indeed! Megan, Megan, Megan.. You live in Bryn Mawr, that explains your idealism. Did you know the West Bank has a 46% poverty rate and only 10% of our housing is owner occupied ? Give me a break! The crimes are not being reported because the police are afraid of being sued for identifying the "immigrants" that are beating, and robbing people weekly, stealing and breaking into cars at lightning speed. We had 7 auto break ins on 1 block over one weekend this month! Are you aware of the riot about 6 weeks ago with about 40 nice little immigrant boys in front of Palmers' bar? They were armed with tire irons and 2 x 4's. They scattered to the high rises before the police arrived, but not before an employee of Palmers was hospitalized with head injuries. You can bet if it had happened in Bryn Mawr it would have been on television! My neighbors are too PC to report many of the crimes. The rest of the neighhood doesn't speak English and don't trust the police, and/or don't want to offend their neighbors who are committing the crimes! I wish we were just a little bit gentrified, nothing like a few long time homeowners to help keep crime down. You should spend a month in my "hood" instead of judging our crime rate as racist/anti-immigrant from your nice, little, low crime, mostly homestead, mostly white "in the city suburb"! Sending thousands of non-English speaking poor people to my little neighborhood was not a good idea. A concentration of poverty, combined with major cultural and languages differences was a foolish and perhaps criminal thing to do, remember the Hollman Decree? Some of us are thinking a Federal suit may be a solution to our problem. Barbara Murray Riverside Park section 8 property manager SAFE block leader for 10 years my neighborhood has gone to hell in the last 5 years! TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Fw: Gentrification? Indeed!
No, not at all. I would be the first to stand-up against police brutality, and have in fact, on a couple of occasions, when I experienced it first-hand, done so. What I am saying is that if you're really interested in assisting the minorities/impoverished class of society, the time would be better invested in assisting them out of their current dilemma, instead of making it "less-painful" for them to live there. We are creating a perpetual cycle of lower-class citizens and police brutality by allowing large concentrations of minorities to exist in "pockets" of our city.Given a choice if all things were equal, where do you think the majority ofmy minority neighbors would rather live, Kenwood or Jordan? I've lost track of how many young kids my wife and I have come into contact with that have followed down the same paththat so many disadvantaged children (before them) have gone down. It's all because of where they live, not how they're treated by the police. We project the outcome by either our actions or, inactions. Dennis Plante Jordan From: Rosalind Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Mpls] Fw: Gentrification? Indeed! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:59:10 -0500 Are you really saying that police brutality is the price we have to pay in order to fight crime? I think that police brutality encourages crime in a couple of ways: it sets a role model for brutal behavior and it discourages nonviolent people from calling the police when they are victims of crime or see a crime happening. Rosalind Nelson Bancroft neighborhood, census tract 9600. (According to the city website's CODEFOR stats, there were 21 serious crimes in Bancroft in 4/03 versus 11 in Bryn Mawr and 37 in Cedar-Riverside. According to the city's census stats, Bancroft census tract 9600 has a 43.66% minority population, versus 9.42% in Bryn Mawr and 58.95% in Cedar-Riverside.) Dennis Plante wrote: Personally, I have nothing but contempt for individuals that live in nice, middle-class neighborhoods that are working as "crusaders" against issues such as police brutality. Drive by my house 24/7 and see what I have to contend with, then drive into one of the more affluent neighborhoods, such as Bryn Mawr, or Kenwood and see what they have to contend with. As I write this, at the end of my block, there are 5-6 individuals (standing on the corner) selling drugs, and another 6-8 indivduals on the front porch of an abandoned house gambling. I make roughly 12-15 calls/week to 911 on this activity. It still occurs 24/7. Who's being brutalized? Bancroft 2347 564 52 175 237 231 3606 366 TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crusaders;Affordable Housing
Jim Mork Wrote: I agree with the idea that no city problem should be solved on the back of a poor neighborhood. Cooper or Kenwood could be a location as easily as any other. Two PRACTICAL problems I'd like seen addressed, though. Problem 1: Nice neighborhoods generally contain well-maintained properties. That fact TENDS to make it pretty expensive to acquire property for any kind of social institution. Contrast that with a poor neighborhood which probably has high densities uninhabitable properties. Poor people generally can't shoulder the expense nor have the energy for the kind of maintenance activities that keep property expensive. So, what is a practical choice. Spend MORE taxpayer dollars to acquire property that doesnt need a change of use? Or get rid of something that is unfit for use and build something new? Because I'm sorry but it is sounding to me like some of the residents of these poor neighborhoods have some real RESISTANCE about being neighbors to people who have problems. I guess I understand that, but to make a different crusade about shoving the people into Kenwood or somewhere else sounds like prejudice. OK, fine, prejudice is nobody's exclusive property. But it is aggravating to have the people who feel that way tee off on OTHERS about it seems a bit hypocritical. It sounds like these people are saying OK, you made the effort to keep your property up. Here's your rewardd, the people WE don't want to live next to! Gotta love the justice of statements like that. Dennis Plante Responds: On the surface Jim, your contention that that well-maintained properties in more affluent neighborhoods would be cost-prohibitive to include in the affordable housing mix seems valid. However, I think it's important to way both all the costs and all the benefits before coming to that assumption. I'd be curious to find-out just how proportinate the staffing of the 4th precinct is to the number of citizens it provides services to. Who pays for this currently? I'd be curious to find-out just how less likely a child would be to join a gang, commit a crime, or generally end-up not reaching their full potential IF they had at least some options for positive role models and options available to them? Who pays for this currently? I'd be curious to find-out just how many of the young African American males we currently have incarcerated MIGHT not be there, had they been afforded the same opportunities that their more fortunate WHITE counterparts had? How much does this cost, and who pays for it. Not too awfully long ago, classroom size (in MN schools) was a hot topic. To make a bad analogy, would you rather have your child (assuming the teacher's skills were equal) enrolled in a school that had a class size of 20-1, or 40-1? I have known far too many minority children in my neighborhood that came from both stable and unstable homes, that were sucked into a life of crime and pverty due mainly to the overwhelming peer pressure they felt. Right now, the neighborhood I live in has a 40-1 ratio, and I want it changed. My main reason for becoming a proponent on this issue is NOT because I want to reward Kenwood (or other affluent neighborhoods) for their hard work by making them take the people I don't want to live next to, but to give the people that I live next to as close to the same chance (in life) as I have had. They will never get it as long as we compact them into very limited geographic spaces. Not to say that this is the ideal end result, but I quite often read the outdoor section of the Strib. I recently came across an article written by a late 70's man (it had a photo) that had taken his grandson fishing at a northern Minnesota lake. The grandson caught a very nice Walleye. The grandfather was a lilly-white Norwegian, and his adopted grandson was a 10 year-old black child from Jamaica. For most of the children (in my neighborhood) the potential for this experience will never become part of their reality. Personally, I'd like them all to have the ability to experience it and form their own opinions. Dennis Plante Jordan _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: Gentrification? Indeed!
Doug Mann Writes: Concentrated poverty is a consequence of discrimination in the housing and job markets, especially the exclusion of African-Americans from the better neighborhoods and jobs. But very little is being done by the government at any level to enforce fair employment and housing laws. Dennis Plante Responds: Doug I have to partially disagree. Too many of the African Americans that have been through hard-work, to overcome job discrimmination, have fled to a more quite, serene life in the suburbs. We have lost far too many potential mentors in our inner-city neighborhoods.However, I don'tblame those that havefled, as in most I've spoken with have told me it was too painfull to stay and witness the day-to-day life of those they left behind. Doug Mann Writes: A lot of housing that is affordable to poor people could be created by building on vacant lots and renovating or replacing uninhabitable dwelling units in some of the city's poorest neighborhoods. Dennis Plante Responds: Doug I have to disagree wholeheartedly on this. I think the very last thing we need to do is build more affordabledwelling untits in the city's poorest neighborhoods. I personally don't want anymoreminoritychildren being forced to grow-up in an environment that offers them basically no-chance of realizing their potential. Dennis Plante JordanAdd photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Urban Wildlife
Steve: In a past life, I made my living for several years as a professional hunter/trapper (treeing and or trapping roughly 2,500 raccoons among other animals) and can tell you w/o exception that playing a radio won't deter raccoons. They will grow accustomed to it and if they're hungry, they will continue to fish in your neighbors pond. They'r extremely intelligent animals and figure things out fairly quickly. They'll probably come to enjoy the music while they're fishing as they become accustomed to it. Live trapping, or some other equally offensive strategy, such as dogs, are the only thing that will definitely deter them Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Steve Brandt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] Urban Wildlife Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:06:22 -0500 The raccoons have been harvesting fish from neighbor's backyard artificial pool. She's rejected her husband's offer to employ lethal force and my offer of my live trap. She's in the middle of trying an interesting technique--playing the radio for six nights. So far she's raccoon-free for two of three nights. She may have been playing the wrong station that one night. I've suggested she play talk radio, since there seem to be lots of querulous voices. Do anyone else have suggestions for how to fend off fish-hungry raccoons? Steve Brandt Kingfield TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Is Rental Property the Issue?
Bill Cullen Responds:Is rental property density or concentration of poverty the problem?There are many neighborhoods that have a high concentration of rentalproperty and do not have the problems of North Mpls. I am unable to findrental property density information by neighborhood. Maybe someone couldprovide me with a URL? However, I suspect that Loring Park, Downtown andparts of Uptown have nearly as high or higher rental property density thanNorth Mpls. I know those neighborhoods are not perfect, but none of themhave the constant battle North Mpls has.Dennis Plante Responds: Bill, I also suspect that Loring Park and Downtown (the 2 neighborhoods you mentioned), don't have nearly as high a percentage of impoverished minorities as does the Northside. I have never inferred that we should "cap" the number of rental properties by neighborhoodstrictly for the purpose of limiting the number of rental units that exist in a neighborhood. However, when you allow an unlimted (and basically unenforced) number of rental properties in an neighborhood such as Jordan, society is opening itself up to problems. I have a rough idea as to what the opening antee and the expertise necessary for an individual, or group of individuals to buy into a multi-unit property in either the Downtown, or Loring Park neighborhoods. It's considerably less (on both accounts) than what it takes to get into the rental "game" in Jordan. As a matter of fact, if you have $5K and a burning desire to someday not work, along with reasonable credit, you can belly-up to the table. Thehousing values in Jordan currently allow that to occur on a continual basis. I am not so much concerned with whether or not landlords in Loring Park, or Downtown are up to the task of being good landlords. I am much more concerned with whether or not we're concentrating poverty in neighborhoods such as Jordan. I strongly suspect that the housing stock in Loring Park and Downtown are either too expensive, or generally don't have enough room to be considered suitable for most of the current renters in Jordan. I happen to do a considerable amount of work (I'm a general contractor) for a very large rental property owner in the metro area. One thing that I can tell you that I've learned from himis that there are many different rental markets. I do not for a moment assume that if an ordinance were enacted that capped the number of rental units in a neighborhood, that some of the renters (in Jordan) would move into the downtown, or Loring Park areas. I do however assume, that it would then become incumbent uon the city and perspective landlords to fill the need for affordable housing for the low-income renters in this market elsewhere. And what exactly is wrong with wanting low-income, disadvantaged renters to experience something other than other low-income, disadvantaged renters? Or, should we (as a society)just accept that lumping them together in small geographic areas is in the interest of the majority? I personally know from growing-up in an extremely dysfunctional household as a child, that the largest influence I experienced in breaking the cycle of social dysfunction occured when I "blundered" upon healthy, productive mentors as a young adult. Personally, as a taxpayer, I'd rather my tax dollars go to subsidizing renters in more affluent neighborhoods, than see them spenton increased funding for prisons, police staffing and social services. And that's what's happening right now. Dennis Plante JordanThe new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Is Rental Property the Issue?
While I would agree that the most important influence for a child growing up is that of a stable, nurturing family, I think it's also important to realize that one of the larger issues facing impoverished families is the constant struggle to just survive, whether they're receiving government assistance of not. I do not propose a rental property cap by neighborhood to remove people (from my neighborhood) that I no longer wish to live next to. If it were that simple, my wife and I would sell and move elsewhere. I do so because on a daily basis I have the opportunity to wathc the interaction of my neighbors. My oberservations are as follows: When a child in my neighborhood finially gets it and realizes that they, through hard work, have a right to live a life other than what they see, they become outcasts. Not through the petty bullying that most of us remember growing-up, but through much more dangerous and malicious methods. In my neighborhood, if a young male attempts to make a different life for himself he will be continually threatened and eventually beat-up. His self-esteem will be eroded through constant derogatory remarks regarding his ethnic background (especially by those of his own race). Most end-up failing in their dreams because they're not strong enough to take it. Those that eventually succeed do so because their parents care enough to either move, or ship them off to lives with friends/relatives in a nicer neighborhood. Anyone that doubts these dynamics exist on a regular basis only need to come spend some time in the 'hood. Many more of the kids would escape poverty (and break the cycle) on their own, if the neighborhoods they lived in were better influences on them. Making housing affordable (whether it's rented or owned) won't change these dynamics. Only deconcentrating the number of rental properties by neighborhood will. It's been my experience that good neighborhoods only exist when the majority of its residents are unwilling to accept behaviour that is counter-productive to having a safe, healthy neighborhood. Currently, neighborhoods such as Jordan don't fit that criteria. If something is stolen in my neighborhood, the cops aren't called, as many of the residents in my neighborhood see the cops as more of a problem than they do the person that stole from them. Homeowners and renters alike, for the most part, turn a blind-eye to activities such as drug dealing and gambling. The reasons typically center around the fear of reprisal or the desire to fit-in. I find a certain irony in the fact that many of the dealers I call-on now recognize me and my vehicle and I consistently hear them telling me that I need to get the F out of the hood. The irony? Many of them live in the northern suburbs, or South Minneapolis and only come to my neighborhood because their crimes are more readily accepted by the residents here. It's easier for them to do business. _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Samuels will fast until more beat cops walk Jordan
I find a fair amount of irony in the fact that the State doesn't seem to see the wisdom in stepping-up to the plate in assisting Don Samuels and the community of Jordan. It might be interesting to find-out (from the State) exactly what constitutes a problem worthy of more attention than just telling local leaders that times are tough and to be more creative in their efforts. A small rural town gets hit with a tornado and Pawlenty's on the scene, surveying damage and pledging support. An inner-city neighborhood is blighted by drugs and gang-violence, a large percentage of which COMES to our neighborhood FROM the suburbs, and we need to be more creative with what we have. I just don't get it. As long as we're on the subject. It was mentioned that Don Samuels request of 5 foot-patrol officers, 24/7 would actually entail 35 full-time officers (more than we have on patrol at peak-time in the 4th precinct). I think it's time for the joint law-enforcement entities (that have jurisdiction in the State), to come together and be more creative. Doing the math, 5 officers 24/7 comes to 840 patrol hrs/week. If 35 officers work 35 hrs/week, this comes to 1225 man/hours, or 146% of actual staffing. Lastly, and this makes absolutely no sense to me if it's true, I've heard that the police officer jobs saved from the proposed cuts came, to some degree, at the expense of the transcriptionist positions (administrative) within the department. The net result, now the arresting officers (not the most proficient typists) now have to spend 2-3 hours booking and arrest and typing the reports, where it used to the transcriptionists a fraction of the time. So yes, we saved the jobs, and effectively turned our police force into part-time transcriptionists. Dennis Plante Jordan _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Samuels will fast until more beat cops walk Jordan
It has always been my belief that tough times (as our governor so readily admits we're facing), brings-out the very best, and the very worst in leaders. I commend Don Samuels for both his personal and professional dedication to what SHOULD be viewed as a very serious issues in our State, crime, gangs and poverty. My analogy for the action thus far (from the State) on this issue is similar to the action of the leaders (the crew responsible) when the passenger vessel M/V Andrea Doris was sinking some thirty-five years ago. The got their butts in life perservers and off the ship first and said to hell with the passengers. Hardly the leadership we need at this juncture. Dennis Plante Jordan _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Fire Department taking over housing inspections
A more relevant question to be asked - what neighborhood does city inspections even stay current with? There are numerous rental properties in the Jordan community alone that have been operating with provisional rental licenses (meaning they've never had an inspection to see if they were fit for habitation). Dennis Plante Jordan _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Fire Department taking over housing inspections
MG Writes: Well, there's well over 100,000 rental units in the city, and there are about 25 licensing inspectors. There's more involved than just the inspection, especially if problems are found. And rental licensing is only one piece of the housing inspections program. So, it's going to take a while to get to every building, duplex, single home, etc. Plus, as I recall, the rental licensing program was on hold for a while due to a challenge to the program. In the meantime, the department responds daily to complaints about unsafe conditions, so it's not like Hell House is ignored. Dennis Responds: With a total city-wide population of under 400,000, I question your observation that there's well over 100,000 rental units in the city of Minneapolis. However, if your numbers are accurate, and each rental unit paid a platry $25/year licensing fee that means you generate $2,500,000 annually with which to operate the rental inspection prgram. That being said, stating that there's only about 25 licensing inspectors to handle that workload somehow doesn't make me feel any better, or less justified in feeling that we're both not looking after the best interests of our communities housing stock, or the renters on the lower-end of the rental market. As a matter of fact, I'd kind of liken it to telling everyone during their monday morning commute after a winter snowstorm that we only have enough plow trucks for half the roads. It doesn't make sense either. Dennis Plante Jordan _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Thank you Don Samuels Governor, Now It's time for Others to Step-U
As a resident of Jordan, I'd like to thank Don Samuels for the personal and professional dedication he's shown to the citizens of Jordan. He had much to lose by stikcing his political neck-out, and did so because residents needed help. I'd also like to thank Governor Pawlenty for hearing the requests of the residents and responding. What has been done however, is not enough... I am a firm believer that yes, and ordinary person CAN have an impact on the outcome of issues such as this. But only if they're empowered to do so. We, as citizens of an embattled neighborhood are told publicly to participate in making our neighborhood safer. Yet, in many instances privately, we're discouraged from doing so. About a month ago, I had the first-hand experience of witnessing a neighbor that called 911 on an indivdual dealing drugs at the corner of 26th Av N James Av N. Although it was not a smart thing to do, she called from in front of her house, as she was infuriated by the fact that the dealer was blocking her car as he transacted the deal with the car in front of her. Upon completing his transaction and letting the car in front of her go, the dealer walked-up to her car thinking that she was interested in buying as well. When asked what she wanted, she told the guy that she had called 911. He threatened to kill her. Well, when the squad arrived about 1/2 hour later, myself, several other neighbors has arrived to console our now hysterical neighbor. We POINTED-OUT the individual to the officers on the scene and were told there was pretty much nothing they could do. Now I know the answer I'll hear from everyone is that the incident should be reported. But, the truth of the matter is this - a taxpayer has been discouraged from becoming involved in their community. The message and actions from our paid city officials responsible for supervising the police officers that protect and serve our neighborhoods. It is my hope that our Mayor, RT and our City Council, will choose wisely when it comes time to hire a new chief. Dennis Plante Jordan _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Getting the numbers wrong on apartments
the right, but tough thing politcally. He's drawn attention to part of an issue that's been plaguing our society for more than 200 years, yet we as a society have continued to attempt to solve it in an inappropriate manner. There is very little upside for Don on this issue, for in three months' time, many in power WILL have taken pot shots on his stance. It's the easy thing to do. WE GAVE you 12 troopers, yet you still have problems? Indeed, you didn't have the answers, did you Don? When in fact, Don, nor the neighborhood were heard. This is how we solve problems. I am amazed by the lack of understanding on the issue, and the lack of trust by others in power to defer to someone that might have a better answer. I listened (at Don's press conference on Wednesday) as one visiting politician suggested that the real issue was related to parenting. It all started in the home. For 200 years, we've ripped apart African American culture and society, yet our answer to the problems within thier society is to expect them to act more like us. In a single moment, a simple tornado causes mass property destruction to a small mostly lilly-white town in rural Minnesota, and we (as a society) all understand the need to run to their assistance, financially and spiritually. We demoralize, humiliate, and dehumanize an entire culture for better than 200 years and we expect to solve the problem by lending them 12 state troopers. We don't have the answers, maybe we should at least be receptive to those that might. Dennis Plante Jordan _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Unintended consequences
One of life's certainties We project the outcome. A bad analogy might be to say that to teach a child something new, you must first get the child's attention. They know not, nor should we expect those that have lived in relative priviledge and abundance in our society to know what it is like to live in relative despair. If this were different, we (as a society) wouldn't be dealing with the problems we currently face. At this point in time, those in despair have their attention. They're in the spotlight I challenge all those that aren't satisfied with sending 12 troopers into Jordan as a solution to the deep-rooted problems of this and many other neighborhoods not only within our city, but within our country, to roll-up their sleeves and quit accussing those that have taken action with un-pure intentions and to become part of the solution. Our elected officials have been made aware that there are problems... It is our challenge to make them aware of what those problems are, and to show them that there is a commitment, and a willingness on the part of those living within the problems to welcome their support and utilize their assistance. People are much more apt to lend assistance when they perceive the potential for a positive outcome to at least be a possibility. It is in this light that I challenge our elected officials and community leaders to take a stand, and make an investment larger than several hundred thousand dollars in the form of state troopers to patrol our neighborhoods. I ask them to become personally involved and to come prepared for negative, as well as positive interactions. Residents living in within the problems recognize the degree to which there IS understanding on the part of these officials. Unless they live under a certain set of circumstances, they MUST visit and experience the issues firsthand. In light of this, I challenge ALL elected/paid officials from our State/County AND City to sign-up for and commit to, patroling the Jordan neighborhood for an indefinite amount of time. It is 2 hours/month. The insight you will gain will make you far more effective in discharging your duties. Dennis Plante Jordan _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Gangs, Drugs and Patrols
Mark Wilde Writes: The police have a very loose definition of what it means to be a gang member. I think it is replacing other, less politically correct terms, for poor inner city black men. It is easier to say you want to get rid of gang members then to say you want to get rid of black people. In my mind a gang is an organized group with top down leadership, which no one is suggesting for the situation over North. Dennis Plante Responds: I see this as too much of a generalization. Gangs exist is all cultures, African American, Latino, Asian and Caucasian. To suggest that that we are using the excuse of getting rid of gangs as a front for getting rid of black people is, to me, absurd. I am as concerned and incensed by the senseless killing of the young Asian boy three blocks from my house in May, as I am by the senseless critical wounding of the 19 month-old african american child last week. Further, to associate gangs and African Americans as synonomous in our society is doing a great disservice to the overwhelming majority of African Americans within our society that aren't gang members. They are much more frustrated and grief to a larger degree than does mainstream society about the senseless violence and waste of potential. At least the ones I know do, including my wife. If organization can be interpreted to include exploitation, than I would agree... Otherwise I wouldn't. Most of the young men that participate in gangs aren't getting rich, don't have much of a future and don't have much direction given them by their overlings. As long as they do what they're told, and continue to produce, they maintain their status. However, when your opportunities are limited to begin with, joining a gang looks attractive. Otherwise, I wouldn't agree. I've watched enough resupply drops occurr within a block of my house to know, that there isn't too terribly much organization that occurs. If a young seller runs out of product, he calls, or pages a gang supplier that drops-off more product and pick-up the revenues. Leaving the underlings with enough money to continue their existence for another day. The ones making the money typically don't live in our city and mitigate their risk to every extent possible. They in fact are the survivors.. Possibly because they were smart enough (either through their own drvices, or pure luck) not to get caught. Simply put, it's black-on-black crime and exploitation. My proof??? When's the last time you've heard of a gang member over the age of twenty-five being arrested?? Dennis Plante Jordan _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Gangs, Drugs and Patrols
Doug Mann Writes: I also think that a big part of the gang, crime, and drug problem is a consequence of the war on drugs. The prohibition of recreational drugs drives up the price, drives many drug addicts to engage in criminal activities to pay for their habit, creates an economic niche for gun-toting gangs, and has been filling half of the prison beds with people convicted of using or selling drugs. Illegal recreational drugs would be the source of far fewer social problems if they were legalized and regulated. Dennis Plante Responds: To suggest that by legalizing recreational drugs you'd reduce the crimminal/gang activity currently associated with it, is to me, ridiculous. Unless of course, you want to include crack (and even more addiction-forming, dangerous drugs) in the list of recreational drugs. If however, you are suggesting that they be included, than I would vehemently protest it. When we as a society condone such activity as not only legal but subsidized (which it would have to become openly) from a care standpoint, I'll choose another country to live-in and move. Also, even if you were to legalize recreational drugs such as crack, you'd still have the crimminal/gang element to deal with (along with all the existing social issues we haven't dealt with). By making what they currently do legal, they'd just move onto something else illegal. There's a reason most of them become involved in the first place... It's because it's illegal, not because they have a deep social conviction about the issue. Dennis Plante Jordan _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] city purchased security equipment
NI Krasnov writes: Please don't tell me that government can't find $1,000,000 to protect the lives of cab drivers. Both the City and State can find justifications for direct and indirect subsidies for real estate, business development, and all sorts of social programs, but not for the lives of cab drivers? One of the primary duites of government is to preserve the public peace. If there are no robberies and murders of cabbies, the police, district attorney's office, coroner, and HCMC will not have to expend any further resources and money to investigate, prosecute and recover from the damage. If saving the lives of cab drivers isn't enough justification, perhaps the stench of the money saved by preventing the crimes in the first place will convince those who need an economic incentive. I've previously suggested a number of ways to prevent further robberies and murders of cab driver. The Mayor and City Council should take note. You have been so advised, be guided accordingly. Dennis Plante Responds: Socially, where does it stop? Is it a simple cost analysis? What's next? Footing the bill for bullet proof glass and surveillance cameras in all small retail establisments that don't feel they can financially foot the bill to keep their employees safe? I'm a small general contractor. Everytime OSHA changes it's safety requirements, should I be compensated by government to comply with these changes? Currently, I pass it along to my customers. If I'm out of line in my cost increases, it's pretty simple, I don't get the work. I don't know about anyone else, but the last time I toook a cab in NYC, I believe it cost me substantially more than a comparable ride in MPLS. And if I'm also not mistaken, NYC didn't foot the bill to have the safety devices installed in the cabs. _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] C.M. Samuels on MPR
Jill Writes: Oh, so they're from Chicago now? Not Gary...or Detroit... or New York... What a relief. What's the MN Dept of Tourism say - what's the big attraction? The owner at that 'mall' says we're too small; the weather stinks, there's no transit, no housing, no jobs, no welfare. Are the citizens of Minneapolis to believe that this city's thirst for contraband is heftier than the windy city's? Dennis Responds: To understand the issue, one must first understand how gangs work. It's a young man's game. Highly transitional and w/o much of a future. Three phenomenon are now occurring that's only going to cause the issue to worsen. First, as gang members are arrested and removed from society, territories are opened-up for gangs to fight over (i.e., the shooting of the 19 month-old in Jordan). To prove the point, the innocent in the wheel-chair shot on 07/26 (at the corner of Humboldt 26th Av N) isn't quite as innocent as you may think. Do some checking Does Kevin Brewer ring a bell?? Secondly, many of the gang members that were sent-away in the early/mid ninties are being released and haven't changed their ways. Lastly, the economy has worsened nationally and YES, it affects all apects, both legal and illegal in nature. Comparable drugs do sell for more in Minneapolis than they do in Chicago. The competition (to sell them) is less stiff. To think for one moment that this IS NOT a solvable problem, one only has to ask themselves whether or not the worst neighborhoods (crime/gang-wise) in Minneapolis even remotely compare to the worst neighborhoods in other large cities? To that I answer, there aren't any neighborhhods in Minneapolis where if my car broke-down and I was w/o a cell-phone that I wouldn't make it out without all my possessions in-tact. The same can't be said for most other cities. The problem's solvable. We just have to decide to solve it. Dennis Plante Jordan BTW-It's the Bloods causing all the trouble lately. And yes it's coming from Chicago. _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Police Cut The Lines of Communication on National Night Out
nDyna: On an interesting side note. For better than a year, some of us tried unsuccessfully to shut-down an ongoing gambling operation that occurred basically nightly in a garage not too far from where I live. The reason we weren't successfull? The offenders had a scanner in their garage. Dennis Plante Jordan _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Judges and jails
Here's a great bit of news. I just got back in my office. I had a voice mail message from or local CCP Safe Officer. During the news conference yesterday, 1/2 block away from where it was being held, undercover officers apprehended six individuals that have, on a continuing basis, gambled and sold drugs off the street corner at 26th James. They were caught in the middle of a crap game, in the MIDDLE of the street, while children were at play. NONE of the six live in my immediate neighborhood. All SIX have prior arrest AND conviction records. Some as juveniles. Some as both juveniles AND adults. The prosecuting attorney has decided to dismiss the charges (gambling's a misdemeanor offense) and prosecute at a later date, provided he's able to get community impact statements. I plan on watching this one from start to finish. How do I know they've been selling drugs and gambling?? Because I know them intimately. I (along with other neighbors) have made numerous calls on their activities over the past three months. In fact, one of those arrested yesterday came up tome Sunday evening while I was standing alone on that very same street corner keeping vigil with my camera and cell phone. You see, a young neighborhood girl rode-up on her bicycle to me and asked me to fix it for her. While I was fixing her bike, one of the young men arrested Tuesday, walked-up and wanted to know what I was doing with her little sister, and if I was molesting her? Long story short, I wasn't able to completely fix her bike, but she came to my house last nite (berfore our NNO party) and I finished the job of fixing her bike (she's very happy now). The incident from Sunday nite was fresh in my mind, so I asked her if she remembered what had happened. Her response - he's not my brother, he doesn't even live around here. I was being intimidated. Chalk one up for the neighborhood. Dennis Plante Jordan _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Judges and jails
Dennis Plante Responds: Apparently I can't see the forrest through the trees... Exactly who ARE the RIGHT people to send to jail??? I'd like to know.. The young children (in my neighborhood) that are afraid to go to the store (at the corner) would like to know.. Even the tax-paying, hard-working LOWER-INCOME, MINORITY residents of my neighborhood wold like to know... I truly feel sorry for the women that spent nine months in jail because she chose to argue with the bus driver about a $.50 bus fare. And I'm SURE there weren't any extenuating circumstances you neglected to tell us. However, I don't feel as sorry for her as I do for all the RESIDENTS of my currently being HELD HOSTAGE because our judicial system won't get a clue... Nor do I feel as sorry for her as I do the 19 month-old child that currently lies in critical condition in a hospital because we have chosen to give individuals that break the law time after time, after time, another chance. Shouldn't the arrest (with PRIOR convictions) of someone for carrying a handgun be a SIGNAL that they're probably up to no good?? Did the judge suspect he was on his way to go hunting?? Or maybe, just maybe, the judge decided that, gee, it's a social issue. Yes he has a long rap sheet.. Yes, it appears this kid's having problems he's not dealing with. But, he doesn't live in my neighborhood.. Somehow, I suspect that he was given a break BECAUSE of his social standing... Shame on us. Dennis Plante Jordan Michelle Gross Replies: So maybe it is low-level offenders who are doing time, not actual criminals. But seeing this stuff in action is a real eye opener. I would strongly encourage anyone interested in this issue to take a little time and just go down to the government center and sit in on some hearings and trials. Start in room 1156 and move around from there. I think you would see that people are spending time in jail--probably just not the right people. Barbara Lickness wrote: Maybe we should gather up all the criminal rap sheets the neighborhood folks have and put them in a notebook and send them to the legislators and and ask why these people have never spent a day in prison? Maybe it would outrage them enough to do something. Theneighborhood activists working on this stuff have beenoutraged for a long time. _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Drugs;Adult Involvement
Michelle Writes: I was on a panel discussion yesterday on Jordan melee--one year later (for a City Pages article) and Tim Dolan stated that most of the busts they do for drugs in the city are for marijuana--MARIJUANA! I could not believe my ears--not crack, not heroine, not crystal meth--MARIJUANA! Dennis Responds: When is the next panel discussion on the Bryn Mawr Melee? I'd like to request to be seated as a panel member. It should come as no real surpirse that marijuana leads all DRUGS from the standpoint of investment AND busts manpower-wise for the MPD. It's a very low-risk offense for dealers, and the risks associated with selling are worth the paltry rewards. I'd be curious to find-out what percent of the total investment/busts this represents especially for impacted areas. I've read the latest precinct reports,as well as the feedback on chargeable offenses as they relate to impact statements for my neighborhood and I'm left scratching my head. Unless other neighborhoods are handled differently that mine, I can assure you a very small amount of time is being spent by the police in the apprehension of pot dealers. Michelle Writes: If marijuana sales and use were decriminalized, it would sure deflate the financial base of some of the criminal element and would keep people from coming into impacted areas to buy their recreational drugs. Folks would just go down to their local Walgreens, liquor store or whatever. We'd need laws to prevent driving while impaired, etc. but overall this would really reduce some of the activity associated with the criminalization of this low level drug and allow police to focus on bigger issues in those impacted areas. Dennis Responds: I am growing weary of the fact that some would like to draw a correlation between the socially disenfranchised and the legalization of pot. Legalizing pot won't make the gangs, or the violence go away, or for that matter, the socially disenfranchised and happier. The bigger issues in impacted areas can't be solved by the police, or the legalization of pot. It's a societal issue that has yet to be dealt with. I am somewhat amused by the fact that it's been pointed-out to me in the past, on list, that some posters had relatives that participated in prohibition and that everything turned-out okay (with them) when alchohol was legalized. In fact, some even went on to hold very respectable positions within society. However, the pot dealers (mostly gang members) that I know of in my neighborhood won't change their behaviour because we legalize pot and they no longer have a source of income. They'll find something else to make money from, and somehow I don't think it'll be getting a job or becoming a contributing member of society. Again, I am not opposed to legalizing pot. I am against using the reason to legalize pot as a means to end societal woes that are very loosely connected to it. There's an old saying - be carefull of what you ask for, it may come true. Right now we have a realtively low-level offense associated with selling pot on the street corner. Most gang members have adapted to the laws, and know them well. It's part of doing business, and even looked upon as a source of amusement by some (getting a ride downtown, knowing full-well you'll be back on the street in two hours). At this point, legalizing pot will disrupt the socio-economic balance (regardless of how dysfunctional it is). Personally, I shudder to think what my neighborhood would be like, if all the current pot dealers had to find something else to do for a source of income. I'd probably end-up moving to a nicer neighborhood, and driving property values/rents-up even higher than they are now. I really truly would like to believe that by legalizing pot, many of those currently selling on the street corner would suddenly become contributing members of society. However, my gut tells me that most would turn to something else illegal, probably more harmful, and much more precious to defend as a way to generate income. But then again, maybe I'd have a different opinion, if I didn't live amongst it. _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Strib: Johnson Lee cited for failure to obey police order
Living in North Minneapolis, I am continually faced with having to make the decision as to whether or not it is prudent to pass a vehicle that is illegally parked on a right of way, or to wait until they finish chatting with the individual they're speaking with. Almost without exception, the driver of the vehicle (usually in a somewhat annoyed manner) motions me to go around them. Sometimes I make good choices, sometimes I don't. About a month ago, during a typical incident of this type, I took the driver's advice and attempted to squeeze through. In doing so, our rear-view mirrors scraped lightly. The damage? A scuff mark the size of a dime on the mirror of the illegally parked vehicle. I ended-up having to pay $40.00 for the damage I caused, as the driver of the illegally parked vehicle was furious over the damage I had caused. My attitude has since changed. I now get-up as close as I can and incessantly honk my horn until they move their illegally parked vehicle. Unless Council Member Johnson-Lee was in a designated parking/stopping area, the officer was well within their right AND their duty to request that she move. And while questioning the officers' justification is the right of every citizen, obeying the law is as well. An illegally parked car is illegally parked, regardless of who you are. As for Rochelle Olson's biased reporting - reporters have imput into stories, but very rarely make the decisions about the overall complexion of the article. Dennis Plante Jordan _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Strib: Johnson Lee cited for failure to obey police order
On second thought, I've changed my mind... I'm quite sure now that had a white person been driving Natalie's car, the squad would have gone around w/o saying a word. I'm also quite sure that the cop in question was way out of line for telling Johnson-lee that if she wanted to continue her conversation, she needed to pull into the adjoining parking lot. But wait a moment, come to think of it, I'm white, and I've received a ticket for parking a vehicle (it was there less than 5 minutes) in front of my house facing the wrong way (to unload groceries). Was I pissed? You bet. Was I in the wrong? Yup. My wife's half African American. Maybe I should scream discrimmination? A cop telling someone in a predominately minority neighborhood that they are stopped illegally (in the street) and they need to move along, and further ticketing them, when they fail to comply, is NOT selective, OR discriminatory in nature. Dennis Plante Jordan _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] The Judiciary and Crime
An honest question regarding something that has bugged me since I became aware of its existence - why is it necessary for community members to fill-out impact statements for habitual offenders to FINALLY get them to repay a debt to society? Is this to show judges that the members of society living in that particular neighborhood are really, really sick of anti-social behaviour? Why should a community member have to fill-out an impact statement to ensure that someone that has transgressed pay their debt to society? I understand I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I'd really appreciate it if the majority could point-out the wisdom in this. My current understanding of the rationale is this - two different perps, different neighborhoods, the same crime - different sentencing, if impact statements are submitted with one of the perps. Or, is this just a fallacy? A way to make residents feel like they have a say, when in fact they don't? I am past the point of being sick about it. No one is helped, or put into a better position life-wise, when they're put into a position where they don't feel there are consequences for the choices they make. Dennis Plante Jordan _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] $10,000 REWARD for the West Bank Thugs
Vicky: I learned a few years back that there indeed is no honor among thieves. My garage was vandalized and a couple thousand dollars worth of tools (I'm a contractor) were stolen. I became aware of the theft almost immediately after it happened. Yes I did initially go through the proper channels. I filed a police report. However, after speaking with the responding officers, I realized that the chances of receiving justice, were slim to none. Remembering that there was a group of teenagers playing hoops in across the alley from where the theft occurred, I sought them out and offered a $1,000 cash reward for the return of the tools and the name and address of the perp. Within 3 hours all of the missing tools were back in my garage and I had the name and address of the perp. The person that returned them to me had actually broken into the perps garage to get them back. I did pay the reward. Not only to keep my word, but also to send a message to those that may have similar motives in the future. Long story short - no one (in my neighborhood) messes with my property anymore, as they realize I WILL do whatever it takes. I park an antique 24' 1954 Chris Craft boat in my back yard, uncovered, and don't worry about vandalism. I don't even feel it necessary to lock my doors anymore, as there's always someone (in my neighborhood) sitting on the front steps, watching. My advice to you - get the word-out to the regulars that hang-out where the crime occurred. However, the only hope of prosecution is if the beaten man can identify the perps once they're identified (by the informant), as the informant won't risk testifying (for $10,000) as he/she will at least meet a similar fate to your handyman. Dennis Plante Jordan _ bGet MSN 8/b and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Forum Notice
Good god, if there were in fact a basis for the claims made by Zachary, RT (and other elected officials) would own every bit of property of most of the list members using the service. If you don't want to get stung by the bees, don't mess with the bee-hive. In other words, if you work for a high-profile developer, you should be prepared for strong sentiments. Me thinks thou does protest too much. Dennis Plante Jordan _ bGet MSN 8/b and help protect your children with advanced parental controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Home Ownership, and kind list members helping Dyna with herfinances...
I think part of the problem that exists is that most people consider their homes as a personal possession and consequently, take it very personally when they're told they HAVE to do repairs. One of my neighbors is a middle-aged single/divorced woman that received a notice from the City regarding peeling paint on her garage trim. Although she was never contacted in person regarding this issue, from what she conveyed to me, the inspector was more than willing to work with her regarding an extension (in time), to complete the work. It wasn't necessary however, as she borrowed ladders and paint brushes (along with advice) from me, enlisted (or conscripted) her son for the weekend and finished the painting during the time required. I actually found her opinion on the issue refreshing, as when she borrowed the equipment from me she apologized to me for having created such an eyesore for her neighbors. As urban homeowners, our responsibility (regarding our homes) extends past ourselves. My property value is affected by the condition of my neighbors' homes, as well as by other factors, such as safety, location, livability, etc... I am no less offended by an owner (living near me) that allows their property to become run-down, than I am by an absentee landlord. If I take-out a loan to buy a car, as a responsible person it's incumbent upon me to make sure that I will be able to pay the note and maintain it. If I make the decision to own a home, instead of renting (thusly freeing me of the responsibility of the maintenance), then it should also be incumbent of me to plan for its up-keep maintenance. Dennis Plante Jordan _ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Home Ownerships: The Problems
I just returned from a long-awaited BWCA vacation and was reading the article from this weekend in the Strib about Jordan. While stats may be massaged to reflect what is desired, I find the dilemma facing my neighborhood to be particularly defined by the following - Jordan is roughly 50% rental property (at least those that are legally licensed). There are roughly 1000 residential dwellings in Jordan. Of this total, 380 (Strib stats) are licensed, but uninspected. Summing it up, 38% of residential property in Jordan is rental property that has NOT received an inspection (by the City) to determine if it is inhabitable. In my opinion, this begs the questions - If the property is in compliance, why HASN'T the owner requested an inspection? Also, if it's agreed that we're dealing mostly with economically disadvantaged renters, what type of message are we (as a society) sending to them, that we care so little about their living conditions that we don't even require their landlords to maintain their properties? Further, whereas many of these properties receive rental subsidy (tax dollars from you and I) we should be further outraged that we're not getting what we're paying for. For those readers living in more affluent neighborhoods where a renter is much more likely to report unsafe living conditions, be aware that it doesn't happen with the same frequency in the economically disadvantaged neighborhoods. To continue to allow rental properties to be licensed on the honor system is a dis-service to everyone. Both the renters AND the taxpayers. Dennis Plante Jordan _ Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] comment to (no subject)
Two Hours??? Had I seen this program coming down the pike, I would never have paid my wife's parking tickets (for some reason she has yet to learn that no parking means her as well as everyone else). She (or I in her place) would have been out paying our debt to society. I could have saved hundreds. :-) Also, in an effort to be fair to Jill Harmon, whereas (from what I'm reading here) it appears the program was indeed set-up to target minority offenders (of misdemeanor offenses), maybe her statement about being white and pissed, isn't out-of-line. What's next? Tax-breaks in exchange for picking-up trash?? What's my point? My point is that my wife is a minorty (except for her 1/8 german ancestry) and when I met her, she essentially owed several hundred in overdue misdemeanor traffic offenses. Our combined income the first 3 years we were together was LESS than $30K/year AND we paid for her tuition to finish school during that time-frame. We considered it a HUGE luxury to BLOW $50 bucks bowling at Bryant Lake Bowl (on a Saturday nite) during that time-frame and there were many days we searched for change in sofa cushions to buy mac cheese for supper. I concur, we enable citizens to continue a dysfunctional lifestyle and KEEP them from being productive members of society by allowing them to work-off debts at a highly exhorbinant hourly rate. To justify it by saying that the City, or County saved hundreds of thousands of dollars is erroneous, as in the long-run, nothing was learned and we'll continue to subsidize those that continue to choose a dysfunctional lifestyle. Dennis Plante Jordan Dennis Plante Jordan _ Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Racial bias in the criminal court system
Peter Jessen Writes: 76% of all users of illegal drugs are White, yet 70% of drug convictions are Black. ... White youths are one third more likely to have sold drugs than Black youth, yet it is Black youth who get arrested, (p. 150-151, The Minneapolis Story, Through My Eyes, by Ron Edwards. Dennis Plante Responds: Are we confusing the terms?? There's a distinct difference between drug users and drug sellers. Currently, as a society, we choose to arrest and prosecute those that are selling the drugs. Not those that are buying, or enabling the actual sellers. For a LONG TIME, the residents of Jordan have been requesting that police efforts be stepped-up against the out-of-towners that come into our neighborhood to buy illegal drugs. The rationale is very simple - take away the demand and you take away the need to sell. It would also be very interesting (to most) to learn that the sellers on my street corner are, almost without exception, minors. Roughly half reside in the neighborhood and half don't. They're almost all african american youths. One thing that's become a recent interest of mine - these kids for the most part (especially the ones that don't live in the hood), have to reduce their ounces of pot into saleable packets somewhere (they can buy both the baggies and the scales necessary to do so at the corner store) close to where they're selling, as a good salesman will sell $500/day. That's 50 dime bags. I hardly think they're coming into the neighborhood (quite often by bus), with 50 dime bags on their person. Where IS this happening, and WHY aren't we focusing our efforts on stopping it??? Dennis Plante Jordan _ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Racial bias in the criminal court system/Bias in the Hood
Keith asks; Is it reasonable to expect the corner store owner/operator to refrain from selling exclusively drug-sales related paraphernalia, i.e., scales, microbags? I do not include papers or blunts. Subsequently, when said merchant touts all his efforts to help rid crime from his parking area and corner, should his efforts be a little suspect if he profits by enabling drug processing and marketing? What would the neighbors say, and do, if I, Keith Reitman/landlord, offered these same legal products for sale from one of my front porches, to our neighborhood youth? Dennis Responds: The store owner (who lives in Woodbury) has flatly denied selling such items. Maybe that's why neither item is displayed openly. They're both kept below the counter, out of sight. It'd be very easy to view asking the store owner to stop selling these items as a reasonable request (by the public), as the revenue loss would be very small. However, the 12-18 youths that buy these items from him on a regular basis also provide him with a very large revenue base in the manner of food/drink, the wrappers for which mostly end-up on the ground in our neighborhood. Personally, I see a fair amount of irony in the fact that the owner was viewed as somewhat of a hero for rescuing (unlocking his store door and letting them in) two reporters lasy August that were being beaten by a mob of people that were rioting in response to the drug warrant being served and subsequent wounding of the child (by CRT) on the house directly across the street. Dennis Plante Jordan _ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Teen Center in Jordan Neighborhood?
Knowing Don, I have no doubt he would whole-heartedly support ANYTHING that afforded opportunity and stability to the teens of Jordan. I see his asking for references and resume as nothing more than an appropriate formality. One which I would hope Mr. Martin understands. One thing I find in common of all the people I know that know Don - they all believe he has unquestioned character. They may not agree with his views on everything, but they TRUST his motives. If this teen center is important to Mr. Martin he will understand that to garner the support necessary to make it happen will require building allies and trust. This is what we SHOULD require. Dennis Plante Jordan _ Fast, faster, fastest: Upgrade to Cable or DSL today! https://broadband.msn.com REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Police Chief Search
Dennis Plante Responds: Maybe the answer is not to require officers to live within the City limits, but to incentivize their pay for doing so. A long time ago, I lived in a remote town in South Central AK (Cordova). No roads in, no roads out. If you wanted to go elsewhere (even for the day), you had to either fly, or take a boat. I worked for a large PNP hatchery Corporation as its purchasing logistics director. The Corporation I worked for was smart enough to realize that it was important to the citizens of the community to have the corporate staff living in Cordova, although for many of the positions, it wasn't required (we also had offices in Anchorage). Their answer - a housing stipend. There's no doubt in my mind that having a MPD officer living on my block would probably increase the livability. However, they'd probably never have any time for themselves, even when they weren't working. However, if one were willing to do so, it would probably be a wise investment (on the oart of the City) for a few hundred dollars a month, as I'm sure the drug dealing, gambling and other various and assorted activities would cease. Dennis Plante Jordan Jim Writes: I had a similar experience with a Minneapolis police officer at a social occasion earlier this summer. He told me that several years ago he bought land and built a house almost halfway up to (Lake) MilleLac to get away from all that city crap. When I asked him why he lives so far away from the city he works in he said that he hated Minneapolis but he loved being a police officer and that Minneapolis is where all the action is and that he would be bored as a rural, suburban or small town police officer. He also said that you couldn't pay me enough to live in Minneapolis or St. Paul. I found his attitude very demeaning. I don't think it is possible or necessarily important to have officers living inside city limits; I certainly don't begrudge Minneapolis police officers of firefighters from living in Richfield, or St. Louis Park or Robbinsdale or any other close in suburb. I do question the motives of one who decides to pick up an move away from the metro area however. Jim Bernstein Fulton _ Need more e-mail storage? Get 10MB with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Housing codes
Dennis Plante Responds: More than likely, in the case of houses where there are 20 inhabitants each paying $350/mo., some enterprising leasee (college student) is the one charging the inhabitants, not the landlord. Dennis Plante Jordan Bill Dooley Writes: I have not read all of this thread so this may have been covered earlier. One parent called into a talk radio station and said his son was living in a converted duplex with 20 other students and the landlord was charging each students $350 per month! He said he had pulled his daughter out of another house because it was a firetrap. He says he was lucky he was able to inspect his daughter's housing situation but that it would be hard for out-of-state parents to check, especially when the child is excited about moving off campus and living with his or her friends and assures the parent every thing is OK. Comment #1: I had no idea these houses generate this much income. Comment #2: Out-of-state parents have the responsibility to check their children's living arrangements. Bill Dooley Kenny _ Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming attachments. Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] what housing inspectors do
Moving the discussion forward. In my opinion, it really isn't a matter of whether or not the City is staffed properly to conduct the necessary inspections. It's more a question of where priorities (for the City) lay. In the free enterprise system, the cost of doing business (if equal with your competition) is the cost of doing business period. As a general contractor, I pass along a permit fee for work I do in Minneapolis, just as I do in the other metro cities. It's an assurance on the customer's part that the work I do is in fact, sound. In short, the City is saving uneducated customers from themselves. If the fees associated with either inspecting a rental property, or work down by a contractor to a homeowners' property, doesn't adequately cover the costs associated with performing the service, then maybe the City needs to address the issue. I have never been able to entirely understand, or accept, how it is we allow rental property owners to obtain a provisional (no inspection required) rental license that lasts forever, as long as the owner continues to pay the licensing fees and no one else (living in the neighborhood) calls attention to the property for violations. In most instances, it's not a matter of ignorance on the part of the landlord. They're fully aware of the process. It's simply a matter of dollars and cents. Why go to the trouble and cost associated of bringing your property up to code, when you don't have to? In all honesty, if I chose rental property (in the City) as an investment vehicle, I sure wouldn't. Dennis Plante Jordan _ High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] what housing inspectors do
Dennis Plante Responds: Steve, whereas I currently don't own any rental property and whereas I never said it to begin with, I don't think I'm making the statement that I wouldn't bring my rental properties up to code. I in fact live in Jordan and can only attest to what my somewhat trained eye sees. I have no facts or figures to draw from. How about you? Where do you live? What percentage of the TOTAL overall rental property owners are experienced and professional in their appoach to managing their properties? As a general contractor, at least I have to pass an examination to prove my ability, all a rental property owner has to do is show-up with the ability to borrow the money necessary to cover the note. The current problem Steve, is that for every responsible and experienced rental property owner you can name, I can probably name one ON MY BLOCK that is not. You, more so than I, should be opposed to this type of operating procedure, for they are your competition. Dennis Plante Jordan Steve Meldahl Writes: Dennis speaks that he would not bring a property up to code if he did not have to. Obviously spoken by an inexperienced homeowner or non investment property owner. All of the professional and experienced rental property owners know that it is much cheaper in the long run to invest upfront (ie bring up to code at a minimum if not totally remodel). The reason is that your upfront expense is more than offset by the savings in maintenance and service calls you avoid over the subsequent years , as you tend to get a better qualified and more responsible tenant. _ Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming attachments. Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
