[nysbirds-l] Pelham Bay Park, Bronx - Razorbill and others 2/6

Hi All, Had a great day in the Turtle Cove/Hunter Island section for the park. Highlights included a Razorbill seen well east of Twin Island, a flock of 20+ purple sandpipers on the rocks off Glen Island, 2 Long-Tailed Ducks and a Great Cormorant seen distantly off Twin and a Bald Eagle over

Re: [nysbirds-l] Bad behavior

Brilliant, Isaac. Thank you. Ardith Bondi bird photographer On 2/6/12 7:31 PM, Isaac Grant wrote: Here is my two cents based off of over 30 years of birding in this state. I find this entire discussion absurd and think that everyone has pretty much missed the real point. I have no clue why

[nysbirds-l] Fwd: [MASSBIRD] Loblolly Cove residents upset

Another pressing topic dare I forward this email? --JD Begin forwarded message: > From: Ian Lynch > Date: February 6, 2012 9:17:17 PM EST > To: MassBird > Subject: [MASSBIRD] Loblolly Cove residents upset > Reply-To: Ian Lynch > > I went to Loblolly Cove in Rockport this morning in

Re: [nysbirds-l] Bad behavior

Bravo, Isaac! Phil Jeffrey threw me off ebirds for my heretical piece earlier today. I'm happy to hear another birder criticize behavior that really needs to be addressed. Not to be misunderstood, if hobbyists want to spend insane sums of money, absolutely. I endorse capitalism, these sales are

[nysbirds-l] Syracuse RBA

RBA   *  New York *  Syracuse *  February 06, 2012 *  NYSY 02.06.12 Hotline: Syracuse Rare bird Alert Dates(s): January 30, 2012 - February 06, 2012 to report by e-mail: brinjoseph AT yahoo.com covering upstate NY counties: Cayuga, Montezuma National Wildlife Refuge and Montezuma Wetlands Complex

[nysbirds-l] Black Vulture and Short-eared Owls at Shawangunk Grasslands NWR

Scanned from Galeville Town park for the evening raptor show (from 4pm to 5:45pm). Things move around a lot but high counts included 2 Turkey Vultures, a BLACK VULTURE, 13 Northern Harriers, 2 ROUGH-LEGGED HAWKS, 8 SHORT-EARED OWLS, and 2 Red-tailed Hawks. We also had a COYOTE hunting for mice

[nysbirds-l] Bad behavior

Here is my two cents based off of over 30 years of birding in this state. I find this entire discussion absurd and think that everyone has pretty much missed the real point. I have no clue why people get so up in arms about flushing owls. Let me preface this by saying that some of the people

[nysbirds-l] Barrow's Goldeneye (YES) @ Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge Queens County...

This afternoon I did a vigil on the West Pond at Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge, in an effort to establish the time that the *Barrow's Goldeneye*was returning to roost. After an hour and half of constantly scanning the West Pond, I finally picked up the Barrow's Goldeneye around 5:35 p.m. >From my

RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Photographers are clearly muggles, but the birding community has its share of deatheaters. Will Raup Albany, NY Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it From: jacobdruc...@msn.com Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:53:32 -0500 CC: gregoryfis...@sprintmail.com;

[nysbirds-l] ADMIN: Courtesy and Rules

In light of some recent ill-chosen dialogue, I must remind those who choose to post messages to this List that it is not okay to single out people or publicly lambast them. Please keep the postings more constructive in nature, instead of playing the blame game. The List Rules specifically

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

All of us should follow sensible rules that serve the welfare of the wildlife we care about, {and the rules of this list serve are that you provide your name with your post.} I know that the vast majority of photographers are not behaving poorly, but it only

Re:[nysbirds-l] Bad behavior

I usually don't like to become embroiled in these types of conversations for obvious reasons. However, I would like to make some observations. (1) In my personal experience some of the worst offenders have been those ready to condemn others while citing some sort of ethics code or another. They

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

When will Harry Potter fans get involved in this discussion? Jacob On Feb 6, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Felipe Pimentel wrote: > Dan, > > The problem with your suggestion is the potential danger of creating a kind > of "birding war" that would not help to solve any problem but may create new > ones,

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Dan, The problem with your suggestion is the potential danger of creating a kind of "birding war" that would not help to solve any problem but may create new ones, including potentially violent encounters in the field that we must avoid. More productive could be the development of some

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Careful. This post makes me uneasy. It smacks of vigilante justice. Moderation in all things. Bob Lewis Sleepy Hollow NY --- On Mon, 2/6/12, Dan wrote: > From: Dan > Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it > To: "Gregory Fisher" > Cc: "" , "NY

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

I agree! Do not post owls as photographers like myself will probably want to photograph them. The bashing continues and as walk with a lens I always feel a sense of discomfort when I see birdwatchers. Which is why I learned a long time ago to keep my mouth shut about any birds I find.. So

[nysbirds-l] Turkey Vultures Suffolk County

Early this afternoon 2 Turkey Vultures were seen soaring over Southaven County Park, Brookhaven, tending in a northerly direction. Rather early, as multiples usually not seen here by us until March. Peggy & Joel Horman Ridge, NY -- NYSbirds-L List Info:

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Hey Dan, I am fine with that as long as you at least try to educate the individuals exhibiting the poor behavior. Some people are just ignorant and just need a little guidance. Yesterday's example by Adam is a prime example. You approach them, try to considerately educate them. When

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Let's all take photos of photographers that misbehave. Be SURE to post them to the appropriate listserve. If you see that photographer enter their vehicle, try to photograph the make and model and the license plate number too :) Good birding! Dan Furbish peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com --

RE: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

The issue here is how to protect owls from being harassed by unethical and just plain pathetic photographers/birders. Not whether we should chase birds or whether we should report rare birds. So not sure why we got turned in that direction but maybe we can focus back on the main problem. I'm

Re: [nysbirds-l] bird disturbance and 'photographers'

Hey Adam,  I agree with all you said.  To hear someone complain vehemently that was onsite and did not take the initiative to approach the offenders and then not to even back you up and have the nerve of criticizing all photographers when they themselves are out there photographing the birds is

[nysbirds-l] bird disturbance and 'photographers'

Hi Phil & others Your email brings up a number of points that merit discussion. I think that birds have far more serious problems than 'photographers', and I think your proposed approach of making bird details 'secret', and the approach followed by you and Rob Jett of photographing people and

[nysbirds-l] Suggestion - How to Observe and Photograph Owls Guide

Watching the brouhaha over inconsiderate photographers with interest. Mostly, this is about owls, snowies in particular. I'm thinking there are two categories of problem people, those who willfully and consciously disturb and harass owls for the better shot, and those who lack the field craft to

[nysbirds-l] BirdCallsRadio Archives | Pete Dunne

Birders et al, BirdCallsRadio archive is now available of Feb 5 show with our wonderful guest Pete Dunne Chief Communications Officer of New Jersey Audubon and Director of the Cape May Bird Observatory Pete is also the Founder of the World Series of Birding.

RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Thanks Dave.  Yes I did not realize that and Jody filled me in too.  Maybe that is where our problem lies.  Should that be protected to only those who subscribe?  Seems like that could go a long way to having more consistent civil birding community.-Original Message- From: David Klauber

RE: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

Seriously? Get a grip people. Someone already mentioned how owls bring out the worst in people, and I agree. The topic always sets off a flurry of sanctimonious posts from people trying to tell everyone else what to do. Mention was already made of joggers and dog walkers flushing the owls in

[nysbirds-l] Easy solution

I just spoke with a couple of people at the DEC. They suggested contacting a local conservation officer if you see someone harassing wildlife. There is a list of DEC regional offices and agents on the following link: http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/393.html I tend to think that most folks

[nysbirds-l] [ebirdsnyc] Re: 'photographers' and disturbance

Well, for me the way out of these annoyances was simple - I stopped chasing rarities. My father was a stamp collector, and I remember how strange and compulsive that 'hobby' became for him. When I began to develop that same weird behavior, I decided it was time for me to cultivate mental

Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

Fred speaks well, and, indeed, we need to gather all these thoughts, and, if nothing else, state clearly and succinctly what the problem is. To contribute to this, thinking there might be significant legal aspects to consider, I've placed inquiry with NYSDEC, thinking them the most likely

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

The issue should not be one of "them against us" since that would not help at all. As a birder and as a photographer, I am concerned that these issues will have negative repercussions on the social interactions between us in the field. BTW, most of the bird photographers that I know are not

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

The issue should not be one of "them against us" since that would not help at all. As a birder and as a photographer, I am concerned that these issues will have negative repercussions on the social interactions between us in the field. BTW, most of the bird photographers that I know are not

Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

Well said Fred and Peter.  -Original Message- From: Fred Baumgarten Sent: Feb 6, 2012 12:38 PM To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds I like Peter's posting and would like to add a few thoughts.  Maybe I'm missing something, but the

Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

I like Peter's posting and would like to add a few thoughts. Maybe I'm missing something, but the question that doesn't seem to be fully addressed is: What do we do about it? Keeping sightings off the listserves is one solution, but one that a lot of people, myself included, have difficulty

Re: [nysbirds-l] Photographer problem at Breezy Point

Scotty - Your statement is beyond ridiculous. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 12:25 PM, scotty...@aol.com wrote: > If your a good birder, then u should know your locations for finding > birds. Hiking is supposed to be part of the fun but its lost with the > public. Posting rare birds locations online

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Mark Barriger wrote: "My attitude is if your serious about photographing owls and your serious about observing them then spend more time out looking for them and less time checking online for other people sightings." So lets go ahead and punish the folks who are

[nysbirds-l] a reality check

In any profession, sport, hobby, occupation business, or whatever, there are people who do "bad" things at the expense of others. Some are good people who should know better and some are just bad people. The assumption that may be in error is people learn from their mistakes or from

[nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

List Members: I am a recent subscriber of this list-serve. Having read some but not all of the comments and opinions on the encroachment of birds for whatever the motive, I have decided to share some points. From my relative outside perspective, I see this issue to be one of great controversy

RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

This topic is going on in most States right now because of the number of Snowy Owls moving down. I think singling out the photographers is wrong but honestly at least three quarters of the time when I see a "birder" make a dumb controversial decision he/she usually has a camera present. Not

[nysbirds-l] Lewis woodpecker an apology

Sorry I wrote in the wrong woodpecker, but the sentiments remain the same. Thanks for the correction sent to me. Diana Teta\ Long Island, NY -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES

Fwd: [nysbirds-l] Photographer problem at Breezy Point

Sent to me directly, by mistake; Begin forwarded message: From: scotty...@aol.com Date: February 6, 2012 7:12:36 AM EST To: Jim Osterlund Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Photographer problem at Breezy Point It serves the ignorant, the lazy, and the the followers that have nothing better to do

[nysbirds-l] Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge (JBWR) This Morning (Queens Co.)

We arrived at JBWR at 6:45AM. We quickly located the Barrow's Goldeneye on the West Pond in the company of nearly one hundred Common Goldeneye. The Barrow's flew out to the bay (southwest direction) with the Common Goldeneye at 7:30AM. While searching through the rafts of waterfowl on the

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

I share David's and Cindy's views about the issue of restricting information about bird sightings. Before the time of the Internet (before the 1990s) birders got info about bird sightings mostly through phone calls. At that time, the number of active birders (or bird watchers was smaller than

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

We use THIS list (and others) to get "in the loop". Not all of us have our days free to wander all over the state looking for rarities or trying to find other birders in the field to talk with to get "the scoop" on rarities. We have full-time jobs, families, and many other commitments, which is

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

I agree that my position is unfortunate and inconvenient for many. But posts on this list have a major impact. For example, I was out at Breezy Point on Saturday. There were few birders and only one photographer when I was there, and the owls were left in peace. Then, a post on NYSBirds,

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Go find a rare bird. Sent from my iPhone4 Please, always leave a message, I screen every call. Thx. On Feb 6, 2012, at 9:14 AM, Cindy wrote: > To echo Janet's post and in response to Stella's - I too have seen > photographers being insensitive to snowy owls, on other ocassions. I remember >

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

As a long-time resident and birder of New York state (more than 30 years) I agree with Cindy. We must not fall into any extremist position. It would be beyond a shame to go back to the old "word of mouth" system, when only a self-appointed elite knew about rarities.  Respond appropriately to

Re: [nysbirds-l] Photographer problem at Breezy Point

I was just about to post the same question about purpose, since the group rules state: "The primary purpose of the List is to disseminate information about wild bird sightings in and around New York State in a timely manner and to provide an effective electronic forum for New York State area

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Hats off to Cindy, very well said.  Also to others on here that have pointed out that it is not just photographers but birders too that exhibit inappropriate behavior.  To say lets just not post on here any species worthwhile, to me is just undermining what this is suppose to be about.  This is

[nysbirds-l] ADMIN: Ethics Thread

As Listowner of NYSbirds-L, I am monitoring this thread in the background. This is an important discussion to have on the eList. Please continue to keep the comments considerate and thoughtful. For reference again, here is the American Birding Association (ABA) Code of Ethics - Principles of

RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Hi all, I was going to stay out of this thread because it's an impossible situation. I come from 3 directions. I'm a long time birder, a professional wildlife photographer and a listowner of Metro Birding Briefs. As a listowner I've always discouraged posting of specific owl locations. Letting

[nysbirds-l] Croton Point 2/5

I'll second Joe Giuta's email about Croton Point: it was very quiet yesterday in this unseasonable mildness. We saw one mature and one juvenile Bald Eagle during the afternoon in Croton Bay. A lone juvenile Red-tailed hawk and a too quickly glimpsed falcon rounded out the raptors. We did have a

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

All, We are responsible for the sightings we make and the people we share those with. It is important to balance the need for documenting rare and irregular species vs. our desire to share these excellent sightings with others. This is especially true when dealing with sightings of territorial

RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

I too agree with Cindy's summation. The birding community as a whole should not turn into insular cliques that make it easy not to report when you know you will hear about the bird anyway. Do we want this board to only report Herring Gull's except of course when a Ross' Gull shows up! That

Re: [nysbirds-l] a moral compass isn't in the purchase price

I think we should all solemnly swear--both birders and photographers-- to never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever look or take a picture of an owl ever again. Jacob Drucker On Feb 6, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Diana Teta wrote: > The buying of photographic equipment for picture taking or the buying

[nysbirds-l] a moral compass isn't in the purchase price

The buying of photographic equipment for picture taking or the buying of optics for birding does not include a code of ethics or an insertable moral compass for the buyer. Equipment does not make a great photographer or binoculars make an excellent birder. I have seen motivation lead to

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Well put Cindy! Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2012, at 9:14 AM, Cindy wrote: > To echo Janet's post and in response to Stella's - I too have seen > photographers being insensitive to snowy owls, on other ocassions. I remember > one time there was a fantastic photo op for one particular owl

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

DATE: 2/6/12 9:34 AM [ Full Screen ] [ SIZE: 2.242KB ] FROM: fal...@kidwings.com TO:catbird...@yahoo.com SUBJECT:Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it Hello All, This is a very interesting discussion, and I enjoy reading

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

To echo Janet's post and in response to Stella's - I too have seen photographers being insensitive to snowy owls, on other ocassions. I remember one time there was a fantastic photo op for one particular owl at Jones Beach a few years ago I even took one of my kids out of school so he could

[nysbirds-l] Eagles- Croton

Date: Feb. 5, 2012 Location: Croton, Westchester County Our NYC Audubon birding group visited Croton. The lack ice and snow prevented the Eagles from concentrating in any one spot. We were able to see three adult Bald Eagles fly over at the Croton RR station and one adult fly over at

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

The opinion I voiced, to stop posting about owls, is certainly not a new one among birders and has been in practice for years. It is unfortunate. Education will help to reduce disturbance, which is why I re-posted the ABA's ethics principles. There are a number of web sites that have similar

RE:[nysbirds-l] nysbirds-l digest: February 05, 2012

Hi all, It is great idea to post videos of bad behaviors of birders/photographers :) I would love to take videos of bad behaviors of birders too, especially when playback is involved too. (I am being sarcastic here). How about when 60 people show up in someone's yard to see that rare bird?

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

I have been trying to avoid jumping in on this but feel I must. As a birder, and photographer, I also find the vilifying of bird photographers a disturbing and personally offensive trend. There is no doubt that some photographers do things that are not within ethical bounds. In fact I was

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

The usual line is that it is just "two bad apples". Since I spend a fair amount of my birding time photographing, I've seen a lot of photographers. The number of bad apples is more in the range twenty to forty. (Think: in the course of one day two of us we documented 3 of them - how many more

RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

I've seen the same kind of behavior with folks trying to photograph seals and getting too close, or trying to flush the, from haulout sites. Educating these folks and having the MMPA as a threat goes a long way to help reduce the offensive behavior. I thoroughly understand the pique we all

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

To jump into the fray here:  I have personally witnessed more than just two people harassing snowy owls, in fact, I have observed, on several occasions, up to four or five photographers at a time deliberately flushing the bird, approaching it too closely, causing the bird to have to continually

[nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

All, I am a photographer and am very respectful of wildlife and the birding ethic rules. In no way do I want to bring harm or stress any wildlife including snowy owls. The opportunity to be able to see these magnificant birds this winter is an awesome one. The birding list have been an

[nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

All, I am a photographer and am very respectful of wildlife and the birding ethic rules. In no way do I want to bring harm or stress any wildlife including snowy owls. The opportunity to be able to see these magnificant birds this winter is an awesome one. The birding list have been an

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

To jump into the fray here:  I have personally witnessed more than just two people harassing snowy owls, in fact, I have observed, on several occasions, up to four or five photographers at a time deliberately flushing the bird, approaching it too closely, causing the bird to have to continually

RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

I've seen the same kind of behavior with folks trying to photograph seals and getting too close, or trying to flush the, from haulout sites. Educating these folks and having the MMPA as a threat goes a long way to help reduce the offensive behavior. I thoroughly understand the pique we all

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

The usual line is that it is just two bad apples. Since I spend a fair amount of my birding time photographing, I've seen a lot of photographers. The number of bad apples is more in the range twenty to forty. (Think: in the course of one day two of us we documented 3 of them - how many more

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

I have been trying to avoid jumping in on this but feel I must. As a birder, and photographer, I also find the vilifying of bird photographers a disturbing and personally offensive trend. There is no doubt that some photographers do things that are not within ethical bounds. In fact I was

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

The opinion I voiced, to stop posting about owls, is certainly not a new one among birders and has been in practice for years. It is unfortunate. Education will help to reduce disturbance, which is why I re-posted the ABA's ethics principles. There are a number of web sites that have similar

[nysbirds-l] Eagles- Croton

Date: Feb. 5, 2012 Location: Croton, Westchester County Our NYC Audubon birding group visited Croton. The lack ice and snow prevented the Eagles from concentrating in any one spot. We were able to see three adult Bald Eagles fly over at the Croton RR station and one adult fly over at

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

To echo Janet's post and in response to Stella's - I too have seen photographers being insensitive to snowy owls, on other ocassions. I remember one time there was a fantastic photo op for one particular owl at Jones Beach a few years ago I even took one of my kids out of school so he could

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

DATE: 2/6/12 9:34 AM [ Full Screen ] [ SIZE: 2.242KB ] FROM: fal...@kidwings.com TO:catbird...@yahoo.com SUBJECT:Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it Hello All, This is a very interesting discussion, and I enjoy reading

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Well put Cindy! Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2012, at 9:14 AM, Cindy catbird...@yahoo.com wrote: To echo Janet's post and in response to Stella's - I too have seen photographers being insensitive to snowy owls, on other ocassions. I remember one time there was a fantastic photo op for one

[nysbirds-l] a moral compass isn't in the purchase price

The buying of photographic equipment for picture taking or the buying of optics for birding does not include a code of ethics or an insertable moral compass for the buyer. Equipment does not make a great photographer or binoculars make an excellent birder. I have seen motivation lead to

Re: [nysbirds-l] a moral compass isn't in the purchase price

I think we should all solemnly swear--both birders and photographers-- to never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever look or take a picture of an owl ever again. Jacob Drucker On Feb 6, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Diana Teta wrote: The buying of photographic equipment for picture taking or the buying

RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

I too agree with Cindy's summation. The birding community as a whole should not turn into insular cliques that make it easy not to report when you know you will hear about the bird anyway. Do we want this board to only report Herring Gull's except of course when a Ross' Gull shows up! That

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

All, We are responsible for the sightings we make and the people we share those with. It is important to balance the need for documenting rare and irregular species vs. our desire to share these excellent sightings with others. This is especially true when dealing with sightings of territorial

[nysbirds-l] Croton Point 2/5

I'll second Joe Giuta's email about Croton Point: it was very quiet yesterday in this unseasonable mildness. We saw one mature and one juvenile Bald Eagle during the afternoon in Croton Bay. A lone juvenile Red-tailed hawk and a too quickly glimpsed falcon rounded out the raptors. We did have a

RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Hi all, I was going to stay out of this thread because it's an impossible situation. I come from 3 directions. I'm a long time birder, a professional wildlife photographer and a listowner of Metro Birding Briefs. As a listowner I've always discouraged posting of specific owl locations. Letting

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Hats off to Cindy, very well said. Also to others on here that have pointed out that it is not just photographers but birders too that exhibit inappropriate behavior. To say lets just not post on here any species worthwhile, to me is just undermining what this is suppose to be about. This is

Re: [nysbirds-l] Photographer problem at Breezy Point

I was just about to post the same question about purpose, since the group rules state: The primary purpose of the List is to disseminate information about wild bird sightings in and around New York State in a timely manner and to provide an effective electronic forum for New York State area

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

As a long-time resident and birder of New York state (more than 30 years) I agree with Cindy. We must not fall into any extremist position. It would be beyond a shame to go back to the old word of mouth system, when only a self-appointed elite knew about rarities.  Respond appropriately to

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

Go find a rare bird. Sent from my iPhone4 Please, always leave a message, I screen every call. Thx. On Feb 6, 2012, at 9:14 AM, Cindy catbird...@yahoo.com wrote: To echo Janet's post and in response to Stella's - I too have seen photographers being insensitive to snowy owls, on other

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

I agree that my position is unfortunate and inconvenient for many. But posts on this list have a major impact. For example, I was out at Breezy Point on Saturday. There were few birders and only one photographer when I was there, and the owls were left in peace. Then, a post on NYSBirds,

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

We use THIS list (and others) to get in the loop. Not all of us have our days free to wander all over the state looking for rarities or trying to find other birders in the field to talk with to get the scoop on rarities. We have full-time jobs, families, and many other commitments, which is why

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

I share David's and Cindy's views about the issue of restricting information about bird sightings. Before the time of the Internet (before the 1990s) birders got info about bird sightings mostly through phone calls. At that time, the number of active birders (or bird watchers was smaller than

[nysbirds-l] Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge (JBWR) This Morning (Queens Co.)

We arrived at JBWR at 6:45AM. We quickly located the Barrow's Goldeneye on the West Pond in the company of nearly one hundred Common Goldeneye. The Barrow's flew out to the bay (southwest direction) with the Common Goldeneye at 7:30AM. While searching through the rafts of waterfowl on the

Fwd: [nysbirds-l] Photographer problem at Breezy Point

Sent to me directly, by mistake; Begin forwarded message: From: scotty...@aol.com scotty...@aol.com Date: February 6, 2012 7:12:36 AM EST To: Jim Osterlund james...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Photographer problem at Breezy Point It serves the ignorant, the lazy, and the the

[nysbirds-l] Lewis woodpecker an apology

Sorry I wrote in the wrong woodpecker, but the sentiments remain the same. Thanks for the correction sent to me. Diana Teta\ Long Island, NY -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES

RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

This topic is going on in most States right now because of the number of Snowy Owls moving down. I think singling out the photographers is wrong but honestly at least three quarters of the time when I see a birder make a dumb controversial decision he/she usually has a camera present. Not

[nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

List Members: I am a recent subscriber of this list-serve. Having read some but not all of the comments and opinions on the encroachment of birds for whatever the motive, I have decided to share some points. From my relative outside perspective, I see this issue to be one of great controversy

[nysbirds-l] a reality check

In any profession, sport, hobby, occupation business, or whatever, there are people who do bad things at the expense of others. Some are good people who should know better and some are just bad people. The assumption that may be in error is people learn from their mistakes or from feedback

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Mark Barriger mark8b...@hotmail.comwrote: My attitude is if your serious about photographing owls and your serious about observing them then spend more time out looking for them and less time checking online for other people sightings. So lets go ahead and punish

Re: [nysbirds-l] Photographer problem at Breezy Point

Scotty - Your statement is beyond ridiculous. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 12:25 PM, scotty...@aol.com scotty...@aol.comwrote: If your a good birder, then u should know your locations for finding birds. Hiking is supposed to be part of the fun but its lost with the public. Posting rare birds

Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

I like Peter's posting and would like to add a few thoughts. Maybe I'm missing something, but the question that doesn't seem to be fully addressed is: What do we do about it? Keeping sightings off the listserves is one solution, but one that a lot of people, myself included, have difficulty

Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

Well said Fred and Peter. -Original Message- From: Fred Baumgarten Sent: Feb 6, 2012 12:38 PM To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds I like Peter's posting and would like to add a few thoughts. Maybe I'm

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

The issue should not be one of them against us since that would not help at all. As a birder and as a photographer, I am concerned that these issues will have negative repercussions on the social interactions between us in the field. BTW, most of the bird photographers that I know are not

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