Viagra, Valium, and Prostitution in Occupied Iraq:
http://montages.blogspot.com/2004/06/viagra-valium-and-prostitution-in.html.
--
Yoshie
* Critical Montages: http://montages.blogspot.com/
* Bring Them Home Now! http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/
* Calendars of Events in Columbus:
http
need here ?
Armies ? Police ? Security staff ? Brainwashing ? In other words, how do we
move the privatisation process forward and thus expand the market ?
At the most theoretically advanced level, neo-liberalism resolves this
through prostitution economics, because if we model prostitution, we can
. If
the name of the bourgeois game was getting something for nothing, okay,
then we are going to deal with this in another way, that was the thinking.
It is a revolt at the level of exchange though, not the level of production.
Generally, when neo-conservatives talk about prostitution, they have
Jurriaan writes:
Prostitution is, according
to my analysis, the future for many people on the earth under capitalism,
other things remaining equal, because the more sexuality becomes integrated
into the accumulation process, and the more people must rely on individual
resources which they do
PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] The Natasha trade: a note on the political economy of
prostitution
Jurriaan writes:
Prostitution is, according
to my analysis, the future for many people on the earth under capitalism,
other things remaining equal
NZ brothel law condemned at UN
19.07.2003
By HELEN TUNNAH, deputy political editor
Members of a key women's committee at the United Nations have asked the New
Zealand Government to overturn the law to decriminalise prostitution.
Hungarian Kristina Morval told the UN committee prostitution
Just came across your answer of a few days ago, Tom.
Jo wrote:
Yeah? And who emerges from the spotless sheets? You positing a saviour
of some sort, Sandwichman?
Don't you mean:
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
I'll bet I
Yeah? And who emerges from the spotless sheets? You positing a saviour of
some sort, Sandwichman?
Jo
At 13:18 21-09-00 , you wrote:
There is an immaculate conception between this topic and the "Market as
God" thread.
Tom Walker
Sandwichman and Deconsultant
215-2273
I wrote:
There is an immaculate conception between this topic and the "Market as
God" thread.
Jo wrote:
Yeah? And who emerges from the spotless sheets? You positing a saviour
of some sort, Sandwichman?
Don't you mean:
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches
There is an immaculate conception between this topic and the "Market as
God" thread.
Tom Walker
Sandwichman and Deconsultant
215-2273
ction made between prostitution, disease, and foreigners,
immigrants, oppressed races/ethnicities/nationalities. This line
of thinking has a fertile ground in the political economy of global
capitalism with its attendant immiseration on the periphery migrant
labor.
* Modern Fiction St
en who are abandoned by their G.I. fathers, and the effects
of U.S. military bases on the social environment, in particular on
women who are absorbed into the dehumanizing and exploitative
system of prostitution around U.S. bases. We have considered the
current status of the various
o reason for getting cynical, Jim. There is plenty of room for
disagreement without getting personal. Besides, why should I accept your
definition of prostitution as universally valid and disregard all other
views presented on this list, including those who engage in the trade
themselves?
into a relationship in which she may
have little to gain personally.
There is a very good reason for the 'socialist moralism' regarding
prostitution - it reflects the plebian horror of falling into poverty,
privation, dependency, lumpenization, etc.
Perhaps, but that may or may not be an import
PROTECTED]
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: The End of Prostitution?
I don't know about the rest of you, but the arguments seem to be
recycling. Susan's belated mention of gender was the only new thread.
Should we put this one to bed?
--
Michael Perelman
Economics
At 05:39 AM 1/9/98 -0600, valis wrote:
Coming back to a lot of wheel-spinning after ~10 hours offline, I ought to
agree, but it seems that everyone has talked around the core issue of sex-
as-commodity, holding to different points with varying degrees of fervor.
Suppose we retire this volatile
: Wojtek Sokolowski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: prostitution
In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
X-PMFLAGS
Quoth Michael Perelman without the merest thought of punning:
I don't know about the rest of you, but the arguments seem to be
recycling. Susan's belated mention of gender was the only new thread.
Should we put this one to bed?
Coming back to a lot of wheel-spinning after ~10 hours
I don't know about the rest of you, but the arguments seem to be
recycling. Susan's belated mention of gender was the only new thread.
Should we put this one to bed?
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 916-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL
On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Fleck_S wrote:
prostitution and marriage are the two most common occupations of women -
Even in the poorest countries in the world surely the first part of this
claim is untrue (assuming something close to a conventional definition of
prostitution).
Bill Burgess
At 11:43 AM 1/8/98 +, Jim Craven wrote:
I'm getting it now. Sorry I'm so slow. It is not the sexual acts
that prostitutes typically engage in that are exploitative and
degrading, only the fact that such acts take place under capitalist
conditions of exploitation, degradation of labor and
At 12:00 PM 1/8/98 -0500, Louis Proyect wrote:
Jim Craven's frustration is with other people's inability to understand the
reality he has seen with his own eyes. I can understand this myself. Much
of the discussion that pervades PEN-L and the Spoons lists seems detached
from the day-to-day
Jim Craven:
Just spend some time at the Health Clinic at the Blackfeet
Reservation at Browning. There you will see 12 and 13 and 14 year old
boys and girls with AIDS and other diseases just waiting to die.
Now we are getting down to brass tacks. The world of Suzie Bright and Nina
Hartley is
James Michael Craven wrote:
Just spend some time at the Health Clinic at the Blackfeet
Reservation at Browning. There you will see 12 and 13 and 14 year old
boys and girls with AIDS and other diseases just waiting to die.
Under bourgoeis theory, the "exchanges" of these "sex workers" with
their
On Thu, January 8, 1998 at 11:02:39 (-0500) Doug Henwood writes:
William S. Lear wrote:
Bright nor Hartley
Remember that these two women are socialists whose critique of degradation
and exploitation focuses on wage labor, not sex.
Yes, quite right. It's easy to get sucked into a pointless
not sound like prostitution to me.
Of course not, why should it? My question was (you didn't answer my
other ones --- why not?), why is it so unreasonable to assume that sex
work is just as good as any other in principle?
Why should it be deprecated any more than any other work done under
condition
t, we have here the possibility of prostitution
presenting some with a career choice that is tenable/optimal from both
economically rationalist and politically socialist points of view.
Cheers,
Rob.
Rob Schaap
William S. Lear wrote:
Bright nor Hartley
Remember that these two women are socialists whose critique of degradation
and exploitation focuses on wage labor, not sex.
Doug
At 08:23 AM 1/8/98 +, Jim Craven wrote:
Just spend some time at the Health Clinic at the Blackfeet
Reservation at Browning. There you will see 12 and 13 and 14 year old
boys and girls with AIDS and other diseases just waiting to die.
Under bourgoeis theory, the "exchanges" of these "sex
James Michael Craven wrote:
I'm sure that the few rich Jews of Hungry had rationalized away or
insulated themselves from knowing exactly what fate awaited the other
Jews that they helped to identify, register, collect and have
deported.
Am I the only one who finds this analogy offensive? To
On Thu, January 8, 1998 at 11:02:39 (-0500) Doug Henwood writes:
William S. Lear wrote:
Bright nor Hartley
Remember that these two women are socialists whose critique of degradation
and exploitation focuses on wage labor, not sex.
Yes, quite right. It's easy to get sucked into a pointless
James Michael Craven wrote:
I'm sure that the few rich Jews of Hungry had rationalized away or
insulated themselves from knowing exactly what fate awaited the other
Jews that they helped to identify, register, collect and have
deported.
Am I the only one who finds this analogy offensive? To
I have been skimming the amazingly prolific discussion of prostitution
on pen-l and am interested to see how most contributors talk about class
issues but don't mention gender. Gender inequality fuels prostitution
and promotes another phenomenon (which i have not seen anyone discuss
yet
At 04:01 PM 1/8/98 -0500, Susan Fleck wrote:
What's different between prostitution and many marriage contracts?
1.prostitution is sex for direct payment of money,
marriage is sex for indirect payment of money/financial security.
Response: Marriage is or equals sex for indirect payment
and seller in the
market, it is too bleak a view of most (physical and emotional) relations
between men and women to be taken seriously.
There is a very good reason for the 'socialist moralism' regarding
prostitution - it reflects the plebian horror of falling into poverty,
privation, dependency
of buyer and seller in the
market, it is too bleak a view of most (physical and emotional) relations
between men and women to be taken seriously.
There is a very good reason for the 'socialist moralism' regarding
prostitution - it reflects the plebian horror of falling into poverty
Fleck_S wrote:
What's different between prostitution and many marriage contracts?
1.prostitution is sex for direct payment of money,
marriage is sex for indirect payment of money/financial security.
I should say that Susie Bright made exactly this point in her radio
interview with me.
Doug
At 04:01 PM 1/8/98 -0500, Susan Fleck wrote:
What's different between prostitution and many marriage contracts?
1.prostitution is sex for direct payment of money,
marriage is sex for indirect payment of money/financial security.
2.prostitution is the 'constrained choice' of many women who face
ree from
puritanism and certainly not like one of those low class "lumpen"
street hookers, purports to generalize from a rare and insulated
experience, levels of "freedom of choice" and "mutually beneficial
exchange" simply not found among the vast majority of women and
youn
James Michael Craven wrote:
On what basis do you assert that these women are "socialists"?
Because they call themselves that, for one. I've never talked to Hartley,
but I did a long interview on my radio show the other week with Bright, and
we talked, among other things (like left puritanism)
William S. Lear wrote:
My question was (you didn't answer my why is it so unreasonable to assume that
sex
work is just as good as any other in principle?
Why should it be deprecated any more than any other work done under
conditions of legal exploitation? If the working conditions are
-possible-alienated-worker under capitalism? An
Adam-Smithian ideal type, perhaps?
Theoretically at least, we have here the possibility of prostitution
presenting some with a career choice that is tenable/optimal from both
economically rationalist and politically socialist points of view
On Wed, January 7, 1998 at 20:50:43 (-0800) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
...
I assume that if society presented better opportunities even our happy sex
worker might have chosen another path.
Mike, while I agree that "Prostitution is just a commercialization of
another human relationship&qu
I don't like markets in general. Prostitution is just a commercialization
of another human relationship.
I think Fred Lane is onto something in looking at the class nature of th
subject.
Some sleeze cruises around and picks on a poor young girl who has few
options in life. He has
I don't like markets in general. Prostitution is just a commercialization
of another human relationship.
I think Fred Lane is onto something in looking at the class nature of th
subject.
Some sleeze cruises around and picks on a poor young girl who has few
options in life. He has the upper
Perhaps given the best opportunities people will choose to work in the
sex industry. Perhaps given a better world, people will freely trade
sex in whatever democratic utopia we create.
"freely trading" does not sound like prostitution to me.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics
resenative of the condition or attitudes of the working class in
general.
In __, I can say that prostitutes in the inner city of _
come from poor backgrounds, broken homes, and quite a few are off
reserve natives who have few skills and little resources and turn to
prostitution as one
Folks:
The recent exchange on prostitution came to an end and I am not interested
in reopening it where we left off, but I think most of you will find the
following communication of considerable interest. It comes from Sera
Pinwell, a woman working in the sex industry in Australia --one
Folks:
The recent exchange on prostitution came to an end and I am not interested
in reopening it where we left off, but I think most of you will find the
following communication of considerable interest. It comes from Sera
Pinwell, a woman working in the sex industry in Australia --one who
At 02:03 PM 8/14/97 -0700, Jim C. wrote:
Response (Jim C) I have a suggestion for all those males online--and
any females--who think that prostitution is just like any other job:
Try it for yourself. Try having a stranger's penis in you wherever he
wants it. Try going out with some freak
by the some of her fellow travellers who, in
the name of poorly conceived "solidarity," tried to hush her when she voiced
her criticism of those patriarchal relations.
It is true that both Cuban and the Chinese revelutions eliminated the
conditions that forced women into prostitution, selling t
and quantitatively assessing the linkages and leakages
(from final demand, tax base etc) of aspects of the underground
economy (drugs, prostitution and bolitos).
In Puerto Rico, with about 4.2 million people on the island, about
2/3 of the population is receiving some form of "pagos
transfere
Response (Jim C) I have a suggestion for all those males online--and
any females--who think that prostitution is just like any other job:
Try it for yourself. Try having a stranger's penis in you wherever he
wants it. Try going out with some freak in a car not knowing whether
or not you're
ven what I do mean by
self-valorization (which I spelled out briefly in my last response) I
would hope that things are not as bleak in Puerto Rico as you paint them,
but they may well be. I'm willing to assume that there are any number of
very desperate situations in the world of prostitution, as there a
, international gender exploitation has blossomed into what may be
as much as a billion-dollar industry, according to ECPAT, an international
children's rights group that says its name stands for End Child
Prostitution Child Pornography and Trafficking of Children for Sexual
Purposes. A growing numb
Are we getting a bit repetitive here?
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 916-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
providing some kind of real service. They had these "petit-bourgeois"
notions that along with prostitution came other ills (drugs, criminal
organizations like the Triads) that not only degraded women but also
caused desperately-need resources to be diverted away from the
bu
Jim C:
On the pain of repeating of what has already been said in this discussion:
Work conditions vary enormously in the sex industry. Without denying the
validity of your Puerto Rico observations, the conditions you describe are
general working conditons in underdeveloped countries, rather
I forwarded the press release about the child prostitution conference
posted here to Tracy Quan, a prostitute and writer who is among the
luminaries of Prostitutes of New York (PONY). Though she has a curiously
Marxist-feminist past, Tracy is now a libertarian.
Doug Henwood
Date
The M.P. Catherwood Library of the School of Industrial Labor Relations,
Cornell University in partnership with the Child Labor Study Office of the
Bureau of International Labor Affairs is releasing the following report for
Internet access--
Forced Labor: The Prostitution of Children
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