Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Hakan Falk wrote: After looking in my office, I discovered that my computer (a notebook) was gone and so was my wife's, further checking proved that some more valuables was gone. If it wasn't for Foxy, probably or lot more would have been gone. I'm sorry for your loss, Hakan. The human heart is hard to understand. May you find peace and rest. May your home be secure once again. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Sorry to hear of your loss Hakan. I have had items taken from vehicles on two occasions, but those pale in comparison to your experience. I hope you don't experience further problems due to the left and things normalize soon. To the extent that's possible anyway. Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] A beginners titration question
Hello group, I am a beginner in the conversion of WVO to BD and I have been having trouble with my titration process. On JTF there are 2 reference documents on titration which I have been using as my guide. However, I don't seem to get consistent results. For example, One time I will get 1.55ml and the second time I get 3.22 ml using WVO from the same batch and drawing from the same solution of NaOH and water. First is that kind of variability to be expected? Second I noticed in reviewing the tritration documents again, that isopropyl alcohol is specifed. I have been using the same methanol that I use in the conversion process. Prefacing this with I ain't no chemist, Is that the source of my problem? If that is the case can someone explain why the titration is done with one type of alcohol when the process is run with a different one? Also I seem to be having difficulty keeping the WVO and alcohol mixed during the titration process, which would be what I would attribute to the variation in the results. I have been carrying out the titration in a test tube and shaking it after each drop, but the oil still seems to settle out. And even when they are mixed it is a cloudy white solution, not clear as the JTF documents indicate. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Doug Memering ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Re: A beginners titration question
Hello Doug Hello group, I am a beginner in the conversion of WVO to BD and I have been having trouble with my titration process. On JTF there are 2 reference documents on titration which I have been using as my guide. There's more than that there about titration. However, I don't seem to get consistent results. For example, One time I will get 1.55ml and the second time I get 3.22 ml using WVO from the same batch and drawing from the same solution of NaOH and water. First is that kind of variability to be expected? No. Second I noticed in reviewing the tritration documents again, that isopropyl alcohol is specifed. But how could you not have noticed that the first time round? Everywhere is says so. I have been using the same methanol that I use in the conversion process. Prefacing this with I ain't no chemist, Is that the source of my problem? If that is the case can someone explain why the titration is done with one type of alcohol when the process is run with a different one? I also ain't no chemist, very few of us are chemists, but we can learn, and do. I can't give you a technical comparison of the effects of different alcohols, but why depart from established practice when you're just starting? It doesn't make a lot of sense anyway, titration and processing have different purposes, with titration you're only finding out how much acid will have to be neutralised, not processing the WVO. The result of the titration is applied to the subsequent processing in the form of the amount of lye required, not the kind of alcohol to use. If you assume that the two different processes should use the same alcohol then why don't you also assume that they should use it in the same proportions? - ie 10 litres of 99%+ isopropyl alcohol per one litre of WVO to be processed? Anyway, it is possible to use isopropyl alcohol to make biodiesel, called branched-alkyl esters, which have the advantage of much improved cold-weather properties. There's discussion of this in the list archives, using either isopropyl alcohol or butanol. But it's not for homebrewers, though many have tried - it's laboratory-level stuff, patented but not used, nobody is using these techniques yet AFAIK. Also I seem to be having difficulty keeping the WVO and alcohol mixed during the titration process, which would be what I would attribute to the variation in the results. I don't think so. I have been carrying out the titration in a test tube and shaking it after each drop, but the oil still seems to settle out. Stirring is better. Did you warm the mixture first (and the 0.1% NaOH solution)? Use something wider than a test tube that you can stir. And even when they are mixed it is a cloudy white solution, not clear as the JTF documents indicate. They do not indicate that. What they say is that it should be clear (thoroughly mixed) BEFORE you start adding the 0.1% NaOH solution. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. ... Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of dewatered WVO oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and the mixture turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add the 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution stays pink (actually magenta) for 10 seconds. ... Basic titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate Instead of the usual 1 ml of oil and 10 ml of isopropyl alcohol, mix 4 ml of oil in 40 ml of isopropyl alcohol in a glass beaker. Warm the mixture gently by standing the beaker in hot water, stir until all the oil disperses and it becomes a clear mixture. Then titrate as usual, measuring milliliters of stock solution used. ... Better titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#bettertitrate Mix 10 milliliters of isopropyl alcohol in a small container with a 1 milliliter sample of WVO -- make sure it's exactly 1 milliliter. Take the WVO titration sample from the reaction vessel (Figure 5 #1) after it's been warmed up and stirred. Add to this solution 2 drops of phenolphthalein, an acid-base indicator that's colorless in acid and red in base. Using a graduated eye dropper (with increments marked in tenths of milliliters) or some other calibrated instrument (from medical supply outlets), while
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Dear Hakan I'm so sorry to hear this bad news. That is a severe violation, and it can take a little time to get over it. I'm sure I can say you have everybody's sympathy and support at the Biofuel list, if that's of any use to you. Please let us know if there's something we can do to help. Backup disks gone, aarghhh!! But well done Foxy! You're so right about winning hearts and minds. I lived under just those conditions for years on end, and in more than one country. The SS is never loved, no matter what uniform they might be wearing, if any. It's the way bullies think, unable to tell the difference between respect and fear: if they abuse you and frighten you then you'll respect them, right. Most people grow out of it by the time they leave primary school, except the arrested development cases. Take care of yourself Hakan - I hope you're having a good sleep right now! Regards Keith 26 hours ago, I woke up to the sound of our dogs barking. I slept hard, so she probably gone on for a while. When she would not stop, I went up to tell her of. She was standing in the front door that was open, just as much as she could not get out. After looking in my office, I discovered that my computer (a notebook) was gone and so was my wife's, further checking proved that some more valuables was gone. If it wasn't for Foxy, probably or lot more would have been gone. It was an enormous feeling of violation and I spent the whole day with the police and to sort things out. Discovered also that my CD case with the normal and recent back ups was gone. Maybe it was good that I did not wake up a few minutes earlier, because it would probably led to that ether myself or others would have been hurt. I was in a mood that I easily could have picked a fight. It has taken me 26 hours without sleep, to get that far that I can send this letter. I also had to secure the remote servers and change a lot of passwords. Not that anyone, including me, belive that they would be able or want to connect and do anything. Only the risk, means that I must work hard and fast in the right order to minimize the possibilities. It is places where normal honest people, suddenly and without any obvious reason can get their front door knocked down. They will be searched and the intruders will claim whatever they like to label as illegal, without proper definitions, and arrest normal people like yourself and members of your family. It is worse and even more humiliating. How can any sane person even expect or at least say that this would lead to winning the hearts and minds, the one who says so, must be pretty stupid or lying. The people that belive them must be even more stupid, or be without the slightest capacity of imagination and understanding. Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Dag Pieter Hello, Sorry if I start talking about something you are not talking about, because I did not follow this discussion, but I think I can make up that you try to solidify ethanol. You can do that very easy with wallpaperglue ( Carboxyl methyl cellulose ). Just use ethanol in stead of water and make strong glue. Velen bedankt, maar in een 3rde Wereld dorpje is wallpaperglue nie so maklik te vind, en jy kan dit ook nie maklik self maak van locally available renewable resources. Wanneer het jy al ooit erger Nederlands dan die gelesen?!! LOL! Maar miskien kan u dit verstaan... Beste wense Keith Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel There is (apparently) more than one recipe for sterno. We had a thread going a while back that included a method: calcium acetate (egg shells and vinegar) with ethanol. This is from a previous message on ethanol gel: Keith Addison wrote: Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use it for cooking. I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're most interested in, everything required is probably available locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly ubiquitous. Also, from Hoagy (chalk and vinegar, sunshine and moonshine): Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas -- Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves Jelled/Gelled Alcohol http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4). Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel. Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk) in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry. If you are new to chemistry take a look at this high school science project page. Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu elslab.htm A solid camping fuel like Sternoô was discovered several years ago when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove. Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to use an alternative fuel source. One of the campers made a gel that they could use as a solid fuel. To make this gel, chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar. The resulting mixture was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was heated using a solar reflector. Some rubbing alcohol was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned. Step 1: Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . . Step 2: Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . . Step 3: Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . . Step 4: Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . . Step 5: Combustion of fuel produced . . . Step 6: Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more] Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove http://trailquest.net/baking.html Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel - Calcium Acetate http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html Mike TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't jelly solid ethanol Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with methanol? It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems like that's a distribution problem, more than a real shortage. Using firewood doesn't necessarily mean deforestation as often alleged, very often it means local forests are maintained instead. Where there are shortages (very serious shortages on some places) it's usually due more to other reasons. Indoor smoke pollution is probably a bigger problem than energy efficiency, and indeed energy efficiency itself
Re: [Biofuel] Re: A beginners titration question
Hello Doug. Keith has made an excellent input to you questions but I felt it necessary to add some aspects of your problem: The rule no1 when taking samples is to make sure - as possible- that the sample is representative for the batch. This sounds simple, but if you are dealing with high water content together with high FFA levels you will have different titration values if sampled from the top or from the bottom. If there are detergents in the oil, this actually may help. It is a disadvantage when washing the biodiesel though. By using IPA for titration, the general idea is to have one clear phase consisting from IPA, water, KOH (or NaOH) and oil. The EN standard for determination of acid number which is likewise determined by titration strongly recommends that the amount of IPA should be increased if the solution becomes cloudy or turbid. By using methanol for titration, you are out of standard procedure. And - possibly annoying Keith - the EN requirement for a good titration is that the solution stays magenta for at least 15 seconds. Good luck to you further on ! With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Re: A beginners titration question Hello Doug Hello group, I am a beginner in the conversion of WVO to BD and I have been having trouble with my titration process. On JTF there are 2 reference documents on titration which I have been using as my guide. There's more than that there about titration. However, I don't seem to get consistent results. For example, One time I will get 1.55ml and the second time I get 3.22 ml using WVO from the same batch and drawing from the same solution of NaOH and water. First is that kind of variability to be expected? No. Second I noticed in reviewing the tritration documents again, that isopropyl alcohol is specifed. But how could you not have noticed that the first time round? Everywhere is says so. I have been using the same methanol that I use in the conversion process. Prefacing this with I ain't no chemist, Is that the source of my problem? If that is the case can someone explain why the titration is done with one type of alcohol when the process is run with a different one? I also ain't no chemist, very few of us are chemists, but we can learn, and do. I can't give you a technical comparison of the effects of different alcohols, but why depart from established practice when you're just starting? It doesn't make a lot of sense anyway, titration and processing have different purposes, with titration you're only finding out how much acid will have to be neutralised, not processing the WVO. The result of the titration is applied to the subsequent processing in the form of the amount of lye required, not the kind of alcohol to use. If you assume that the two different processes should use the same alcohol then why don't you also assume that they should use it in the same proportions? - ie 10 litres of 99%+ isopropyl alcohol per one litre of WVO to be processed? Anyway, it is possible to use isopropyl alcohol to make biodiesel, called branched-alkyl esters, which have the advantage of much improved cold-weather properties. There's discussion of this in the list archives, using either isopropyl alcohol or butanol. But it's not for homebrewers, though many have tried - it's laboratory-level stuff, patented but not used, nobody is using these techniques yet AFAIK. Also I seem to be having difficulty keeping the WVO and alcohol mixed during the titration process, which would be what I would attribute to the variation in the results. I don't think so. I have been carrying out the titration in a test tube and shaking it after each drop, but the oil still seems to settle out. Stirring is better. Did you warm the mixture first (and the 0.1% NaOH solution)? Use something wider than a test tube that you can stir. And even when they are mixed it is a cloudy white solution, not clear as the JTF documents indicate. They do not indicate that. What they say is that it should be clear (thoroughly mixed) BEFORE you start adding the 0.1% NaOH solution. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. ... Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of dewatered WVO oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the
Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima
hi tom. yes, you have the right picture, though it actually went further. it wasn't just a matter of *trying* to reach consensus before acting. unanimous consensus was essentially mandatory (an artifact of their particular brand of imperial government perhaps: disharmony/discord could not be allowed?). this is how the hard-liners were able to drag the conflict out as long as they did. however, while the cabinet was empowered with setting policy, they were required to obtain the emperor's blessing for all their decisions. nor did this prohibit the emperor from taking things in hand, as when he initiated diplomatic efforts to seek a peace. he was very much up to speed on the affairs of government: the progress of the war and state of the military; the state of the economy; etc. now, the guy who wrote this piece in the standard (richard frank), he's simply trotting out the same old tired arguments and assertions. which he tries to lend a veneer of fresh originality by blowing a lot of hot air about all this compelling new evidence (it's been in the public domain going on nearly15 years now). but he backs up his premise with nothing but a bunch of data the better part of which could as easily be used to argue in the contrary. what is clear, and this is not a matter of interpretation, is that japanese peace efforts began at least as early as june of '45, by which time some 100 of their cities had been fire-bombed and their desperate, last-ditch attempt to blunt the american advance at okinawa had failed miserably. there could no longer be any doubt at this point about the inevitability of an invasion of japan itself. some interesting links which demonstrate how very selective frank is with his data: http://www.dailyvanguard.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/08/06/42f4f59f0b6fc http://www.vw.cc.va.us/vwhansd/HIS122/Hiroshima.html http://www.counterpunch.org/krieger08062003.html i especially liked the latter two. there were several others i ran across over the course of this debate, but i can't seem to find them at the moment (i found them all on google). anyway, always interesting, these discussions. -chris b. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Tax question
Can anyone help me out here? I am looking into producing Biodiesel for electricity generation. I know the energy bill has a tax incentive, but are there other ones? I read something about a treas. department break for using a renewable source for electricity. Does anyone out there have any more info? Thank you. Jeremy FarmerJBF Holdings LLC2601 Lazy Hollow #603Houston, Texas 77063832-414-4217[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes
Hello; There are some MC's running on diesel. In india they are selling old british (Enfield Bullets) bikes converted to diesel. In Europe there are some small companies working diesel based bikes. But out of the big manufacturers (Suzuki Honda Yanaha Kawasaki BMW Harley etc) none of them has such model. I believe the emissions may be a reason, also high maintenance and heavy engines (compared to gasoline). In any case a samll capacity (less than 250cc) bike will give you avery high mileage (like 50 to 60mpg) (2 litres to 100km). Higher displacement bikes (like 1000cc 100Hp) whic will give you 30 to 40mpg (6 litre to 100km). Consumption on bikes heavily depends how much you twist throttle and how often. With the same bike different riders (with different habits) will have different values. If I were to prefer the MC for savings I would stick to 4 stroke 250cc engine utility models. Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain and cheap to insure. I just wish more drivers would use MC's to save energy time and money. Last month there was an article about a Motorcycle running on fuel cell. Another good idea. Please check http://envbike.com/ Best Regards Burak Cedetas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rademan, Jacobus Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:15 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Hi all, i own a landrover disco tdi and get 980km on a tank 85l but on the motorbike which use petrol 19km/l my question,where are the tdi motorbikes,diesel cars are lighter than petrol cars,so diesel bikes will also be,is 40km/l reachable? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:30 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Hello; 22mpg diesel cost less than same amount of gasoline so you save some. BUT, May I ask why do you need a Hummer sized expedition machine? Except USA such large cars or SUV's are out of our shopping list anyway. The cost and running expenses do not justify them. I like going offroad. Currently I do that with a motorbike. If I choose to buy an offroad 4x4, I wouldn't consider anything bigger than 2.5 litre diesel which will give me at least 25 to 30mpg. May be we should consider to change our purchasing habbits in favour of preserving whatever is left in the world in terms of resources. I hope the below quote from your e-mail will come true some day; The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars. As I have written in my previous e-mail, our kids will be the ones to suffer / enjoy results of our choices. Regards Burak -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 2:24 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Not in a Hummer-sized or Expedition-sized vehicle you won't! I counted over 30 that don't even get 20 mpg on EPA's website. I have a VW Golf and get at least 43-46. The US doesn't sell small diesels, except the Jeep, but it's so heavy it still get no mileage. Isuzu was was the last carmaker to build a decent midsize SUV w/ a diesel - it got 30-35 or so but that was years ago. The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello; You will get far more than 22mpg with diesel. Unless of course you are looking for very large capacity engine (like 6 litres) which and average city user does not need. Over here (outside of USA) you can buy 2.5 to 3.5 litre diesel engined SUV's and Vans. You will get at least 25mpg. And these are 4x4 heavy duty machines. Or you can get small capacity diesel cars (example 1.6 litre Hyundai Getz) and you get something like 40 miles to a gallon easily. These are real life values including city traffic (not test values). I have looked at the article, it mentiones that in US the refineries do not have the capacity for the diesel production. Well hey maybe this is a great opportunity for bio-diesel Start using the vegetable oil or even better waste vegetable oil. You will save the environment, create jobs for local farmers and pollute far less. I would estimate that for a bio-diesel plant it will take maximum 6 months from scratch to be operational. And you can use the local farmers produce or local restaurants WVO (and save the pollution). Even better if you have the talent like many in this list you can make it at home, and save a bundle... Article also mentions that diesel prices are soaring. Yes this is true. I can tell you that this is a great tax revenue for all of the government. I can tell you that over here there are less taxes on biodiesel. The government actually supports the BD production. Therefore the BD sells for
Re: [Biofuel] Re: A beginners titration question
Hello Jan Hello Doug. Keith has made an excellent input to you questions but I felt it necessary to add some aspects of your problem: The rule no1 when taking samples is to make sure - as possible- that the sample is representative for the batch. This sounds simple, but if you are dealing with high water content together with high FFA levels you will have different titration values if sampled from the top or from the bottom. If there are detergents in the oil, this actually may help. It is a disadvantage when washing the biodiesel though. Good advice. Another little-noticed problem is transferring sample-test results to the full-sized reactor, with its different rate of agitation, different shape, different temperature maintenance and so on. Trial and error, more or less, until you get the best results. Bracketed tests help fine-tune it at each stage, perhaps followed by wash tests of each sample result: Poor man's titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#poor Quality testing http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality By using IPA for titration, the general idea is to have one clear phase consisting from IPA, water, KOH (or NaOH) and oil. The EN standard for determination of acid number which is likewise determined by titration strongly recommends that the amount of IPA should be increased if the solution becomes cloudy or turbid. If you stir it vigorously it'll be fine. By using methanol for titration, you are out of standard procedure. And - possibly annoying Keith :-) I might argue Jan but I seldom get annoyed. - the EN requirement for a good titration is that the solution stays magenta for at least 15 seconds. That's at one end of the scale, at the opposite end is that it starts to go pink (before magenta) and stays that way for 10 seconds. I'd leave it to individuals to decide which is best for them, again bracketed tests followed by wash tests of each sample result will help. Best Keith Good luck to you further on ! With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Re: A beginners titration question Hello Doug Hello group, I am a beginner in the conversion of WVO to BD and I have been having trouble with my titration process. On JTF there are 2 reference documents on titration which I have been using as my guide. There's more than that there about titration. However, I don't seem to get consistent results. For example, One time I will get 1.55ml and the second time I get 3.22 ml using WVO from the same batch and drawing from the same solution of NaOH and water. First is that kind of variability to be expected? No. Second I noticed in reviewing the tritration documents again, that isopropyl alcohol is specifed. But how could you not have noticed that the first time round? Everywhere is says so. I have been using the same methanol that I use in the conversion process. Prefacing this with I ain't no chemist, Is that the source of my problem? If that is the case can someone explain why the titration is done with one type of alcohol when the process is run with a different one? I also ain't no chemist, very few of us are chemists, but we can learn, and do. I can't give you a technical comparison of the effects of different alcohols, but why depart from established practice when you're just starting? It doesn't make a lot of sense anyway, titration and processing have different purposes, with titration you're only finding out how much acid will have to be neutralised, not processing the WVO. The result of the titration is applied to the subsequent processing in the form of the amount of lye required, not the kind of alcohol to use. If you assume that the two different processes should use the same alcohol then why don't you also assume that they should use it in the same proportions? - ie 10 litres of 99%+ isopropyl alcohol per one litre of WVO to be processed? Anyway, it is possible to use isopropyl alcohol to make biodiesel, called branched-alkyl esters, which have the advantage of much improved cold-weather properties. There's discussion of this in the list archives, using either isopropyl alcohol or butanol. But it's not for homebrewers, though many have tried - it's laboratory-level stuff, patented but not used, nobody is using these techniques yet AFAIK. Also I seem to be having difficulty keeping the WVO and alcohol mixed during the titration process, which would be what I would attribute to the variation in the results. I don't think so. I have been carrying out the titration in a test tube and shaking it after each drop, but the oil still seems to settle out. Stirring is better. Did you warm the mixture first (and the 0.1% NaOH solution)? Use something
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Hakan, I am sorry for your loss as well, but more than that, I am hoping that the sense of violation of your home space does not last. Here's to a quick, and lasting, return to the sanctity and security of your home.On 8/11/05, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip AntiFossilMN, USA"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmen of today." President Theodore Roosevelt - 1906Give me the money that has been spent in war and I will clothe every man, woman, and child in an attire of which kings and queens will be proud. I will build a schoolhouse in every valley over the whole earth. I will crown every hillside with a place of worship consecrated to peace: Charles SumnerQuotes from Information Clearing House ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] TDI BIKES
THANX CHRIS AND KEITH,I will take a look at the sites. To all ,do u think a old washing machine will make out a nice big blender for procesing larger batches , or will it turn the mix too fast,just a thought for later experiments thanx Kobus S.A . Baie dankie aan julle almal. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes
TDI Harley? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello; There are some MC's running on diesel. In india they are selling old british (Enfield Bullets) bikes converted to diesel. In Europe there are some small companies working diesel based bikes. But out of the big manufacturers (Suzuki Honda Yanaha Kawasaki BMW Harley etc) none of them has such model. I believe the emissions may be a reason, also high maintenance and heavy engines (compared to gasoline). In any case a samll capacity (less than 250cc) bike will give you avery high mileage (like 50 to 60mpg) (2 litres to 100km). Higher displacement bikes (like 1000cc 100Hp) whic will give you 30 to 40mpg (6 litre to 100km). Consumption on bikes heavily depends how much you twist throttle and how often. With the same bike different riders (with different habits) will have different values. If I were to prefer the MC for savings I would stick to 4 stroke 250cc engine utility models. Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain and cheap to insure. I just wish more drivers would use MC's to save energy time and money. Last month there was an article about a Motorcycle running on fuel cell. Another good idea. Please check http://envbike.com/ Best Regards Burak Cedetas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rademan, Jacobus Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:15 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Hi all, i own a landrover disco tdi and get 980km on a tank 85l but on the motorbike which use petrol 19km/l my question,where are the tdi motorbikes,diesel cars are lighter than petrol cars,so diesel bikes will also be,is 40km/l reachable? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:30 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Hello; 22mpg diesel cost less than same amount of gasoline so you save some. BUT, May I ask why do you need a Hummer sized expedition machine? Except USA such large cars or SUV's are out of our shopping list anyway. The cost and running expenses do not justify them. I like going offroad. Currently I do that with a motorbike. If I choose to buy an offroad 4x4, I wouldn't consider anything bigger than 2.5 litre diesel which will give me at least 25 to 30mpg. May be we should consider to change our purchasing habbits in favour of preserving whatever is left in the world in terms of resources. I hope the below quote from your e-mail will come true some day; The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars. As I have written in my previous e-mail, our kids will be the ones to suffer / enjoy results of our choices. Regards Burak -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 2:24 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Not in a Hummer-sized or Expedition-sized vehicle you won't! I counted over 30 that don't even get 20 mpg on EPA's website. I have a VW Golf and get at least 43-46. The US doesn't sell small diesels, except the Jeep, but it's so heavy it still get no mileage. Isuzu was was the last carmaker to build a decent midsize SUV w/ a diesel - it got 30-35 or so but that was years ago. The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello; You will get far more than 22mpg with diesel. Unless of course you are looking for very large capacity engine (like 6 litres) which and average city user does not need. Over here (outside of USA) you can buy 2.5 to 3.5 litre diesel engined SUV's and Vans. You will get at least 25mpg. And these are 4x4 heavy duty machines. Or you can get small capacity diesel cars (example 1.6 litre Hyundai Getz) and you get something like 40 miles to a gallon easily. These are real life values including city traffic (not test values). I have looked at the article, it mentiones that in US the refineries do not have the capacity for the diesel production. Well hey maybe this is a great opportunity for bio-diesel Start using the vegetable oil or even better waste vegetable oil. You will save the environment, create jobs for local farmers and pollute far less. I would estimate that for a bio-diesel plant it will take maximum 6 months from scratch to be operational. And you can use the local farmers produce or local restaurants WVO (and save the pollution). Even better if you have the talent like many in this list you can make it at home, and save a bundle... Article also mentions that diesel prices are soaring. Yes this is true. I can tell you that this is a great tax revenue for all of the government. I can tell you that over here there are less taxes on biodiesel. The
Re: [Biofuel] TDI BIKES
Depends how much power you run throught it... Rademan, Jacobus wrote: THANX CHRIS AND KEITH,I will take a look at the sites. To all ,do u think a old washing machine will make out a nice big blender for procesing larger batches , or will it turn the mix too fast,just a thought for later experiments thanx Kobus S.A . Baie dankie aan julle almal. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tax question
I use BD to generate power for my own use - I would be curious to hear about your research. Jeremy Farmer wrote: Can anyone help me out here? I am looking into producing Biodiesel for electricity generation. I know the energy bill has a tax incentive, but are there other ones? I read something about a treas. department break for using a renewable source for electricity. Does anyone out there have any more info? Thank you. Jeremy Farmer JBF Holdings LLC 2601 Lazy Hollow #603 Houston, Texas 77063 832-414-4217 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Hakan, Sorry to here the news of your loss, I know how you are feeling, we live in a city with our fair share of drug crime problems. We have had 3 break-ins I have lost tools that I use for work etc. There is nothing worse than that feeling of intrusion violation; I hope you can return to normality soon. All our thoughts are with you Malcolm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Hakan, Sorry to hear about your experience. It made me think about how I can secure my home - so at least one person will benefit from your sharing it with us. Good luck with your servers. I'm in the computer business too - I know what a hassle it is. -Mike Keith Addison wrote: Dear Hakan I'm so sorry to hear this bad news. That is a severe violation, and it can take a little time to get over it. I'm sure I can say you have everybody's sympathy and support at the Biofuel list, if that's of any use to you. Please let us know if there's something we can do to help. Backup disks gone, aarghhh!! But well done Foxy! You're so right about winning hearts and minds. I lived under just those conditions for years on end, and in more than one country. The SS is never loved, no matter what uniform they might be wearing, if any. It's the way bullies think, unable to tell the difference between respect and fear: if they abuse you and frighten you then you'll respect them, right. Most people grow out of it by the time they leave primary school, except the arrested development cases. Take care of yourself Hakan - I hope you're having a good sleep right now! Regards Keith 26 hours ago, I woke up to the sound of our dogs barking. I slept hard, so she probably gone on for a while. When she would not stop, I went up to tell her of. She was standing in the front door that was open, just as much as she could not get out. After looking in my office, I discovered that my computer (a notebook) was gone and so was my wife's, further checking proved that some more valuables was gone. If it wasn't for Foxy, probably or lot more would have been gone. It was an enormous feeling of violation and I spent the whole day with the police and to sort things out. Discovered also that my CD case with the normal and recent back ups was gone. Maybe it was good that I did not wake up a few minutes earlier, because it would probably led to that ether myself or others would have been hurt. I was in a mood that I easily could have picked a fight. It has taken me 26 hours without sleep, to get that far that I can send this letter. I also had to secure the remote servers and change a lot of passwords. Not that anyone, including me, belive that they would be able or want to connect and do anything. Only the risk, means that I must work hard and fast in the right order to minimize the possibilities. It is places where normal honest people, suddenly and without any obvious reason can get their front door knocked down. They will be searched and the intruders will claim whatever they like to label as illegal, without proper definitions, and arrest normal people like yourself and members of your family. It is worse and even more humiliating. How can any sane person even expect or at least say that this would lead to winning the hearts and minds, the one who says so, must be pretty stupid or lying. The people that belive them must be even more stupid, or be without the slightest capacity of imagination and understanding. Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
I picked them off the DoD page. 1,500, 1,800, it's still a large number, and it does not include Iraqis. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: those are very conservative (not in the right-wing sense) numbers. there are already close to 1800 killed, and even mcglaughlin--hardly a liberal or a dove--repeats figures in excess of 25000 for woulded/maimed/incapacitated. -chris b. In a message dated 8/10/05 3:47:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the United States has suffered more than 13,000 casualties—11,500 wounded and 1,500 dead ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
Tom Irwin wrote: Hi Mike, Don´t worry you´re not going to burst my bubble. Mid term elections are coming up. I really hope the Republicans try to pass it before those so they can get clobbered in the House. Trying it after the mid term elections offers a bit more politically cover but then they lose the house, senate and presidency together. No amount of spin is going to make the baby boom generation forget Viet Nam. Those who didn´t go, got to see it on TV and watch their friends come home messed up in some form or another. Some of them actually realize that Nixon et. al. tampered with the peace process in 1968 and extended the war by four more bloody years. Every name on The Wall after 1968 didn´t have to be there. Everyone injured after 1968 could have gone home mostly whole. I think our National Icon Mr. Kissenger was actually the architect of that deal... Even if all of the senators and congresspersons line up their own kids first (not f**king likely), nobody will willing go so Bush, Cheney and the other chickenhawks can get rich on oil. They´re not going to send the kids or grandkids into that kind of stupidity again. Can you imagine the image of police in riot gear teargassing a bunch of grandpas and grandmas. We´re not too far away from critical mass on the casualty side. 1500 dead for nothing is shameful enough. They can keep the pictures of the flag drapped caskets from view but it´s really the wounded they´re going to have the most problems with. You can pretty much calculate that half of those 11,500 have been horribly maimed or burned. Bombs and booby traps do that kind of thing. Someone is going to get their story out with words and pictures, win a Pulitzer and put an end to this incredibly, greedy stupidity. Have a little more patience. Sting sang it during the Reagan administration, ¨ The Russian´s love their children, too.¨ You think Americans don´t? I guess I'm a natural pessimist. The problem with democracy is that you get what you vote for. The other day I saw a picture of a grieving family at their soldier son's burial. Framing the scene to the right was their full-size SUV with a Power of Pride and a My son is fighting for our country (or similar) sticker on it. I wondered if the photographer did that intentionally? I think you'd be surprised at how many people just unquestionally follow the president. Most of my extended family is in the Midwest and they are completely in favor of Bush et al. What amazes me is how you can go from a cloth-coat Republican to a Neocon in 20 years. There is *no* Rebulican party anymore. Todays Democrat is a Republican from 1950. -Mike Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel
Where do you live? I am in Virginia and keep mine in carboys outside. I keep it in the coolest part of the yard and it's been ok for 6 months or so. Maybe one of the greybeards might chime in here an Theresa Sims wrote: Hi Mike Outside in 20L drums Ian - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Not long. It's like coffee beans - need to keep turning over yout stock. I have heard - anecdotally - a year under perfect conditions. Less if conditions are bad. How are you storing it? Ian Theresa Sims wrote: Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production. Can someone clarify the final filter process after production. Some say 5 microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't seem to say anything about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it straight in? Cheers Ian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.5/67 - Release Date: 9/08/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Quality Test
Hello all. Need some explanation and advise here on my experiments please. I have been using virgin cooking palm oil for the experiments. When following the steps for checking on quality, I put in 150ml of de ionised battery water and 150ml of the biodiesel obtained but the end result was clear yellowish liquid on top and white emulsion like on the bottom. I have done 3 different batches with the same result. My further reading and guess is either the NaOH is too much/little or the methanol is too much/little. My next step will probably to increase the methanol from 200ml to 400ml (my batches are in 1 liter of new oil). Any comments or suggestions from the gurus out there? Can I continue with the bubble washing process with the above 3 test batches? Jeff _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Hakan! How awful. I can see that this violation is resonating for you in sympathy with all people who have their sense of safety and dignity tread upon. I have read hundreds of your letters, I know you are a good man, working hard to foster safety and well-being in the world. Try to remember this was not a personal assault. Jesse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Thanks Robert, It is not the first time it happens in my life and material losses are the easiest to overcome. It is also something that happens to a lot of people at least once in the life time. As you rightfully pointed out, it is about the right of feeling secure in your own home, a right that should be a real priority for all humans. Why I took up the time of the list members, is because most of us have experienced this, one or more times. It is therefore easy to relate to. When it comes to acts of occupation, suppression and alike. My anger and instinct would not make any difference between common thiefs, crooks, police or soldiers. So when you, as example, talk about bad guys (insurgents) in Iraq, you must first analyze what you see and the common pictures of soldiers, busting in doors with sledge bars. Insurgents, KMA!!! (as Americans would say) The Americans do very badly in Iraq, because as many of them would say they don't know nothing. They are living fortified and in fear, venturing out in a nervous and trigger happy expeditions. Each one creating more insurgents. That is the traditional American military strategies and it only works if they can kill most the native population in large numbers and replace them with a majority of new settlers. The British would not use a double negation in the first place and are far more sophisticated. They take more risks and by that the exposure is less, after all, they have hundreds of years of experience as colonial power. Because they have been in Iraq before and failed, they know that the Iraqis are a very strong, educated and proud people. US looks at the Iraqis as some sort of barbaric third world population. What happened to me, was a fresh reminder on a very basic level, what is happening in Iraq and other places. This is why Iraq is a loose, loose situation for US. Hakan At 08:08 11/08/2005, you wrote: Hakan Falk wrote: After looking in my office, I discovered that my computer (a notebook) was gone and so was my wife's, further checking proved that some more valuables was gone. If it wasn't for Foxy, probably or lot more would have been gone. I'm sorry for your loss, Hakan. The human heart is hard to understand. May you find peace and rest. May your home be secure once again. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
Tom Irwin wrote: They can keep the pictures of the flag drapped caskets from view but it´s really the wounded they´re going to have the most problems with. You can pretty much calculate that half of those 11,500 have been horribly maimed or burned. Bombs and booby traps do that kind of thing. Someone is going to get their story out with words and pictures, win a Pulitzer and put an end to this incredibly, greedy stupidity. Well, it didn't win a Pulitzer...yet. But in Dec 2004, NEJM already ran a photo essay and noted surgeron/writer Atul Gawande wrote an *excellent* essay to go with it. And the editors of the NEJM decided to make the content available free to everyone. Essay by Gawande http://content.nejm.org/cgi/reprint/351/24/2471.pdf Photos (WARNING - some of these pictures are very graphic http://content.nejm.org/cgi/reprint/351/24/2476.pdf jh ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] TDI BIKES
THANX CHRIS AND KEITH,I will take a look at the sites. To all ,do u think a old washing machine will make out a nice big blender for procesing larger batches , or will it turn the mix too fast,just a thought for later experiments Some reading for you in the archives - the whole thread is linked at the bottom of the pages: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg36530.html [biofuel] Perfect Processor you can buy from the market http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg08343.html [biofuel] Dishwasher processors http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg09916.html [biofuel] washing machine and biodiesel http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg28187.html [biofuel] Washing Machine as Processor thanx Kobus S.A . Baie dankie aan julle almal. Jy is welkom Kobus. Beste Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism
rich wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't do this! While the comment below may be technically correct, there aren't 'enough' of us to do this and buying shares only encourages Monsanto to keep it up. IMHO our energies and monies are better spent trying to expose the lies, hidden agendas, and environmentally unsound practices these guys are about, and making sure as many people as possible become aware of the things that might make them wake up and begin to make informed choices themselves. Monsanto and all thier shareholders can do nothing but change to survive if they eventually cannot find thier markets for what they currently sell. Joe Mike, you can start by buying Monsanto stock. With enough stockholders submitting proxy proposals (and enough stockholders accepting them), that may obligate the board to put them in practice. Richard I'm talking about getting just enough shares to be able to vote on the proxies. How about these? http://www.umass.edu/peri/resources/Toxics100table.htm Toxics 100 table Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Re: A beginners titration question
Thanks Jan for the explanation. And Keith I am sorry that I irritated you with a dumb question, I will avoid that in the future. Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: those are very conservative (not in the right-wing sense) numbers. there are already close to 1800 killed, and even mcglaughlin--hardly a liberal or a dove--repeats figures in excess of 25000 for woulded/maimed/incapacitated. Actually, as of 10 Aug 2005, the DoD numbers were: 1819 dead 7163 wounded - return to duty within 72 hrs 6714 wounded - did not return to duty within 72 hrs If McLaughlin his claiming 25,000+ he's either doing one of three things: a) using bad data b) including non-US forces c)implying the DoD is lying. Given the willingness of the Pentagon to openly contradict the Cheney and Rumsfeld spin as needed, I have enough faith in their professionalism to assume these numbers haven't been cooked. The numbers are updated every Tuesday at 10am. http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf jh ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tax question
Jeremy Farmer wrote: Can anyone help me out here? I am looking into producing Biodiesel for electricity generation. I know the energy bill has a tax incentive, but are there other ones? I read something about a treas. department break for using a renewable source for electricity. Does anyone out there have any more info? Thank you. http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/map2.cfm?CurrentPageID=1State=TX jh ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Mike, I will put locks on internal partition doors. My study will have a reinforced door with security locks, maybe with an electric opener and hidden magnetic switch. It must be easy to live with, otherwise it is not used. Setting up computers are very time consuming. Now, when I have a decent mail backup installed, I can start to recuperate all the download licences and write suppliers. They stole a case with the backup CDs, so it will take a lot of time to recuperate and it cannot be fully done. My habit to have copies in different places, will however pay off in a situation like this. Many people do not understand why I spend so much time on having duplicate and triplicate files on different disks and computers, but I learned the hard way, during more than 40 years of IT experience. If I had my backup CDs, I would be fully recuperated by now. Hakan At 14:23 11/08/2005, you wrote: Hakan, Sorry to hear about your experience. It made me think about how I can secure my home - so at least one person will benefit from your sharing it with us. Good luck with your servers. I'm in the computer business too - I know what a hassle it is. -Mike Keith Addison wrote: Dear Hakan I'm so sorry to hear this bad news. That is a severe violation, and it can take a little time to get over it. I'm sure I can say you have everybody's sympathy and support at the Biofuel list, if that's of any use to you. Please let us know if there's something we can do to help. Backup disks gone, aarghhh!! But well done Foxy! You're so right about winning hearts and minds. I lived under just those conditions for years on end, and in more than one country. The SS is never loved, no matter what uniform they might be wearing, if any. It's the way bullies think, unable to tell the difference between respect and fear: if they abuse you and frighten you then you'll respect them, right. Most people grow out of it by the time they leave primary school, except the arrested development cases. Take care of yourself Hakan - I hope you're having a good sleep right now! Regards Keith 26 hours ago, I woke up to the sound of our dogs barking. I slept hard, so she probably gone on for a while. When she would not stop, I went up to tell her of. She was standing in the front door that was open, just as much as she could not get out. After looking in my office, I discovered that my computer (a notebook) was gone and so was my wife's, further checking proved that some more valuables was gone. If it wasn't for Foxy, probably or lot more would have been gone. It was an enormous feeling of violation and I spent the whole day with the police and to sort things out. Discovered also that my CD case with the normal and recent back ups was gone. Maybe it was good that I did not wake up a few minutes earlier, because it would probably led to that ether myself or others would have been hurt. I was in a mood that I easily could have picked a fight. It has taken me 26 hours without sleep, to get that far that I can send this letter. I also had to secure the remote servers and change a lot of passwords. Not that anyone, including me, belive that they would be able or want to connect and do anything. Only the risk, means that I must work hard and fast in the right order to minimize the possibilities. It is places where normal honest people, suddenly and without any obvious reason can get their front door knocked down. They will be searched and the intruders will claim whatever they like to label as illegal, without proper definitions, and arrest normal people like yourself and members of your family. It is worse and even more humiliating. How can any sane person even expect or at least say that this would lead to winning the hearts and minds, the one who says so, must be pretty stupid or lying. The people that belive them must be even more stupid, or be without the slightest capacity of imagination and understanding. Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Sorry to hear about it, no one should have to go through what you did. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 23:58 Subject: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power 26 hours ago, I woke up to the sound of our dogs barking. I slept hard, so she probably gone on for a while. When she would not stop, I went up to tell her of. She was standing in the front door that was open, just as much as she could not get out. After looking in my office, I discovered that my computer (a notebook) was gone and so was my wife's, further checking proved that some more valuables was gone. If it wasn't for Foxy, probably or lot more would have been gone. It was an enormous feeling of violation and I spent the whole day with the police and to sort things out. Discovered also that my CD case with the normal and recent back ups was gone. Maybe it was good that I did not wake up a few minutes earlier, because it would probably led to that ether myself or others would have been hurt. I was in a mood that I easily could have picked a fight. It has taken me 26 hours without sleep, to get that far that I can send this letter. I also had to secure the remote servers and change a lot of passwords. Not that anyone, including me, belive that they would be able or want to connect and do anything. Only the risk, means that I must work hard and fast in the right order to minimize the possibilities. It is places where normal honest people, suddenly and without any obvious reason can get their front door knocked down. They will be searched and the intruders will claim whatever they like to label as illegal, without proper definitions, and arrest normal people like yourself and members of your family. It is worse and even more humiliating. How can any sane person even expect or at least say that this would lead to winning the hearts and minds, the one who says so, must be pretty stupid or lying. The people that belive them must be even more stupid, or be without the slightest capacity of imagination and understanding. Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Diesel Motorcycles ( Was: Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes )
120 miles per gallon at 80 miles per hour !! Diesel Power Military Motorcycles http://blogs.motorbiker.org/Blogs.nsf/dx/07262003184414MIKMMQ.htm Civilian Version of Military KLR DIESEL Motorcycle http://blogs.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/05272004112942MWED66.htm http://www.f1engineering.com/ Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 3:46 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Hello; There are some MC's running on diesel. In india they are selling old british (Enfield Bullets) bikes converted to diesel. In Europe there are some small companies working diesel based bikes. But out of the big manufacturers (Suzuki Honda Yanaha Kawasaki BMW Harley etc) none of them has such model. I believe the emissions may be a reason, also high maintenance and heavy engines (compared to gasoline). In any case a samll capacity (less than 250cc) bike will give you avery high mileage (like 50 to 60mpg) (2 litres to 100km). Higher displacement bikes (like 1000cc 100Hp) whic will give you 30 to 40mpg (6 litre to 100km). Consumption on bikes heavily depends how much you twist throttle and how often. With the same bike different riders (with different habits) will have different values. If I were to prefer the MC for savings I would stick to 4 stroke 250cc engine utility models. Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain and cheap to insure. I just wish more drivers would use MC's to save energy time and money. Last month there was an article about a Motorcycle running on fuel cell. Another good idea. Please check http://envbike.com/ Best Regards Burak Cedetas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rademan, Jacobus Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:15 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Hi all, i own a landrover disco tdi and get 980km on a tank 85l but on the motorbike which use petrol 19km/l my question,where are the tdi motorbikes,diesel cars are lighter than petrol cars,so diesel bikes will also be,is 40km/l reachable? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:30 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Hello; 22mpg diesel cost less than same amount of gasoline so you save some. BUT, May I ask why do you need a Hummer sized expedition machine? Except USA such large cars or SUV's are out of our shopping list anyway. The cost and running expenses do not justify them. I like going offroad. Currently I do that with a motorbike. If I choose to buy an offroad 4x4, I wouldn't consider anything bigger than 2.5 litre diesel which will give me at least 25 to 30mpg. May be we should consider to change our purchasing habbits in favour of preserving whatever is left in the world in terms of resources. I hope the below quote from your e-mail will come true some day; The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars. As I have written in my previous e-mail, our kids will be the ones to suffer / enjoy results of our choices. Regards Burak -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 2:24 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Not in a Hummer-sized or Expedition-sized vehicle you won't! I counted over 30 that don't even get 20 mpg on EPA's website. I have a VW Golf and get at least 43-46. The US doesn't sell small diesels, except the Jeep, but it's so heavy it still get no mileage. Isuzu was was the last carmaker to build a decent midsize SUV w/ a diesel - it got 30-35 or so but that was years ago. The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello; You will get far more than 22mpg with diesel. Unless of course you are looking for very large capacity engine (like 6 litres) which and average city user does not need. Over here (outside of USA) you can buy 2.5 to 3.5 litre diesel engined SUV's and Vans. You will get at least 25mpg. And these are 4x4 heavy duty machines. Or you can get small capacity diesel cars (example 1.6 litre Hyundai Getz) and you get something like 40 miles to a gallon easily. These are real life values including city traffic (not test values). I have looked at the article, it mentiones that in US the refineries do not have the capacity for the diesel production. Well hey maybe this is a great opportunity for bio-diesel Start using the vegetable oil or even better waste vegetable oil. You will save the environment, create jobs for local farmers and pollute far less. I
[Biofuel] Re: A beginners titration question
Thanks Jan for the explanation. And Keith I am sorry that I irritated you with a dumb question, I will avoid that in the future. For heaven's sake, that's the second time! I wasn't irritated, but now I am! You got good information, do you want a red ribbon round it too? :-( Keith Addison Doug Hello Doug Hello group, I am a beginner in the conversion of WVO to BD and I have been having trouble with my titration process. On JTF there are 2 reference documents on titration which I have been using as my guide. There's more than that there about titration. However, I don't seem to get consistent results. For example, One time I will get 1.55ml and the second time I get 3.22 ml using WVO from the same batch and drawing from the same solution of NaOH and water. First is that kind of variability to be expected? No. Second I noticed in reviewing the tritration documents again, that isopropyl alcohol is specifed. But how could you not have noticed that the first time round? Everywhere is says so. I have been using the same methanol that I use in the conversion process. Prefacing this with I ain't no chemist, Is that the source of my problem? If that is the case can someone explain why the titration is done with one type of alcohol when the process is run with a different one? I also ain't no chemist, very few of us are chemists, but we can learn, and do. I can't give you a technical comparison of the effects of different alcohols, but why depart from established practice when you're just starting? It doesn't make a lot of sense anyway, titration and processing have different purposes, with titration you're only finding out how much acid will have to be neutralised, not processing the WVO. The result of the titration is applied to the subsequent processing in the form of the amount of lye required, not the kind of alcohol to use. If you assume that the two different processes should use the same alcohol then why don't you also assume that they should use it in the same proportions? - ie 10 litres of 99%+ isopropyl alcohol per one litre of WVO to be processed? Anyway, it is possible to use isopropyl alcohol to make biodiesel, called branched-alkyl esters, which have the advantage of much improved cold-weather properties. There's discussion of this in the list archives, using either isopropyl alcohol or butanol. But it's not for homebrewers, though many have tried - it's laboratory-level stuff, patented but not used, nobody is using these techniques yet AFAIK. Also I seem to be having difficulty keeping the WVO and alcohol mixed during the titration process, which would be what I would attribute to the variation in the results. I don't think so. I have been carrying out the titration in a test tube and shaking it after each drop, but the oil still seems to settle out. Stirring is better. Did you warm the mixture first (and the 0.1% NaOH solution)? Use something wider than a test tube that you can stir. And even when they are mixed it is a cloudy white solution, not clear as the JTF documents indicate. They do not indicate that. What they say is that it should be clear (thoroughly mixed) BEFORE you start adding the 0.1% NaOH solution. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. ... Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of dewatered WVO oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and the mixture turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add the 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution stays pink (actually magenta) for 10 seconds. ... Basic titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate Instead of the usual 1 ml of oil and 10 ml of isopropyl alcohol, mix 4 ml of oil in 40 ml of isopropyl alcohol in a glass beaker. Warm the mixture gently by standing the beaker in hot water, stir until all the oil disperses and it becomes a clear mixture. Then titrate as usual, measuring milliliters of stock solution used. ... Better titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#bettertitrate Mix 10 milliliters of isopropyl alcohol in a small container with a 1 milliliter sample of WVO -- make sure it's exactly 1 milliliter. Take the WVO titration sample from the reaction vessel (Figure 5 #1)
Re: [Biofuel] Lye and Methanol in Ottawa (was no subject)
hey ray, i produce bio diesel here in vancouver and have found a few different places that sell methanol and lye. a company called UNIVAR supplies both products out here for the larger amounts but when i was first starting i didn't need a 55 gallon drum and a 1kg bag so i found a smaller place called Xenex and they sold 2 litre quantities. but have a look in the yellow pages under chemicals here there is about half a page of listings vince z Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Ray, Jesse and all.Yes, Jesse, busy is a good word for it just now. OK Ray, by MeOH, you mean methanol right? (CH4OH).There are indeed race tracks in the Ottawa area. The Ottodrome International Speedway (Stittsville) and Luskville Dragway come to mind. I have no idea if they run methanol at either, but you can call them up and see where you get. (As an avid electric vehicle guy, I don't hang out with those folks much.)I'm assuming you are looking for small quantities (10s, not 1000s of litres).For methanol, go to Canadian Tire, in the paint section. Find their paint thinner, called methyl hydrate. Same thing as methanol. Comes in 4 litre containers, about Cdn$8 each, IIRC. So, $40 for 20L.For Lye (NaOH), try a Home Hardware store. They sell a container about 3 kg, with resealable lid. Don't recall the price, but not prohibitive.Forget Fisher Scientific, they don't want to deal with folks like us (e.g. minimum charge of $200 per order, before shipping and taxes).If you are looking for larger quantities, let me know. I did some research a while ago. Distributors are looking to deliver multiple (e.g. 10 or more) 200 L barrels of methanol as a shipment. I think lye was in the order of 1000 kg for an order from distributor. In between those, try a company like W.O. Stinson fuels for the methanol, and soap-makers suppliers for the lye.Darryl McMahon Hi Ray, No answers? don't despair. Our dear Darryl must be busy. He's up near you. The lye is not expensive, a Cdn Tire thing, and he told me last year where to get methanol. Erg, I'm looking for it in the old letters. Jesse From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 14:50:48 -0400 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject)Hello to my fellow brewers from Ontario, Canada:I just tried pricing MeOH and NaOH from Fisher Scientific (via Good Health and Safety in Mississauga). MeOH @ $79CAD for 20L and NaOH @ $267CAD for 5kg both before tax and shipping. That won't do! There must be cheaper sources. I'm near Ottawa. How do you make it economically viable? Diesel is running at about $0.90CAD per litre right now, but at these prices I can only hope to break even.Ray-- Ray or Shiraz Ings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-613-253-1311 Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Quality Test
Hello Jeffery. The test method that you are using seems to me highly dubious, since there are a number of pre-assumptions that has to be met. For a further check I´d suggest this: Take exactly 25 ml of biodiesel and dissolve it in exactly 225 ml of methanol in a measuring glass. Now: The biodiesel should be fully soluble in the methanol forming a clear bright phase. If not, there is pollution in the biodiesel causing you trouble with the water test. Each ml of undissolved material is corresponding to 4% by volume. Are there any undissolved material at the bottom of the measuring glass ? If there is, your reaction is not complete and this is causing you trouble with the water test. This method does not cover every aspect of quality, but it gives a hint though Good luck to you Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Jeffrey Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:19 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Quality Test Hello all. Need some explanation and advise here on my experiments please. I have been using virgin cooking palm oil for the experiments. When following the steps for checking on quality, I put in 150ml of de ionised battery water and 150ml of the biodiesel obtained but the end result was clear yellowish liquid on top and white emulsion like on the bottom. I have done 3 different batches with the same result. My further reading and guess is either the NaOH is too much/little or the methanol is too much/little. My next step will probably to increase the methanol from 200ml to 400ml (my batches are in 1 liter of new oil). Any comments or suggestions from the gurus out there? Can I continue with the bubble washing process with the above 3 test batches? Jeff _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: A beginners titration question
Keith, Great Information, You got ribbons too? My daughter might want one!! fred On 8/11/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Jan for the explanation. And Keith I am sorry that I irritated you with a dumb question, I will avoid that in the future. For heaven's sake, that's the second time! I wasn't irritated, but now I am! You got good information, do you want a red ribbon round it too? :-( Keith Addison Doug Hello Doug Hello group, I am a beginner in the conversion of WVO to BD and I have been having trouble with my titration process. On JTF there are 2 reference documents on titration which I have been using as my guide. There's more than that there about titration. However, I don't seem to get consistent results. For example, One time I will get 1.55ml and the second time I get 3.22 ml using WVO from the same batch and drawing from the same solution of NaOH and water. First is that kind of variability to be expected? No. Second I noticed in reviewing the tritration documents again, that isopropyl alcohol is specifed. But how could you not have noticed that the first time round? Everywhere is says so. I have been using the same methanol that I use in the conversion process. Prefacing this with I ain't no chemist, Is that the source of my problem? If that is the case can someone explain why the titration is done with one type of alcohol when the process is run with a different one? I also ain't no chemist, very few of us are chemists, but we can learn, and do. I can't give you a technical comparison of the effects of different alcohols, but why depart from established practice when you're just starting? It doesn't make a lot of sense anyway, titration and processing have different purposes, with titration you're only finding out how much acid will have to be neutralised, not processing the WVO. The result of the titration is applied to the subsequent processing in the form of the amount of lye required, not the kind of alcohol to use. If you assume that the two different processes should use the same alcohol then why don't you also assume that they should use it in the same proportions? - ie 10 litres of 99%+ isopropyl alcohol per one litre of WVO to be processed? Anyway, it is possible to use isopropyl alcohol to make biodiesel, called branched-alkyl esters, which have the advantage of much improved cold-weather properties. There's discussion of this in the list archives, using either isopropyl alcohol or butanol. But it's not for homebrewers, though many have tried - it's laboratory-level stuff, patented but not used, nobody is using these techniques yet AFAIK. Also I seem to be having difficulty keeping the WVO and alcohol mixed during the titration process, which would be what I would attribute to the variation in the results. I don't think so. I have been carrying out the titration in a test tube and shaking it after each drop, but the oil still seems to settle out. Stirring is better. Did you warm the mixture first (and the 0.1% NaOH solution)? Use something wider than a test tube that you can stir. And even when they are mixed it is a cloudy white solution, not clear as the JTF documents indicate. They do not indicate that. What they say is that it should be clear (thoroughly mixed) BEFORE you start adding the 0.1% NaOH solution. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. ... Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of dewatered WVO oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and the mixture turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add the 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution stays pink (actually magenta) for 10 seconds. ... Basic titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate Instead of the usual 1 ml of oil and 10 ml of isopropyl alcohol, mix 4 ml of oil in 40 ml of isopropyl alcohol in a glass beaker. Warm the mixture gently by standing the beaker in hot water, stir until all the oil disperses and it becomes a clear mixture. Then titrate as usual, measuring milliliters of stock solution used. ... Better titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#bettertitrate Mix 10 milliliters of isopropyl
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Dear Hakan Hakan Falk wrote: 26 hours ago, I woke up to the sound of our dogs barking. I slept hard, so she probably gone on for a while. When she would not stop, I went up to tell her of. She was standing in the front door that was open, just as much as she could not get out. After looking in my office, I discovered that my computer (a notebook) was gone and so was my wife's, further checking proved that some more valuables was gone. If it wasn't for Foxy, probably or lot more would have been gone. So sorry for you both. Let's get em. We're like a gang, right? It was an enormous feeling of violation and I spent the whole day with the police and to sort things out. Discovered also that my CD case with the normal and recent back ups was gone. Maybe it was good that I did not wake up a few minutes earlier, because it would probably led to that ether myself or others would have been hurt. I was in a mood that I easily could have picked a fight. What is wrong with people? It makes one wonder of what value could backup CDs be toa crack head crook? Having a tinge paranoia in my head makes me go here, but it does sound a little like espionage. It has taken me 26 hours without sleep, to get that far that I can send this letter. I also had to secure the remote servers and change a lot of passwords. Not that anyone, including me, belive that they would be able or want to connect and do anything. Only the risk, means that I must work hard and fast in the right order to minimize the possibilities. If there is anything we can do to help please let us know. It is places where normal honest people, suddenly and without any obvious reason can get their front door knocked down. They will be searched and the intruders will claim whatever they like to label as illegal, without proper definitions, and arrest normal people like yourself and members of your family. It is worse and even more humiliating. How can any sane person even expect or at least say that this would lead to "winning the hearts and minds", the one who says so, must be pretty stupid or lying. The people that belive them must be even more stupid, or be without the slightest capacity of imagination and understanding. Hakan I often wonder what the most brilliant minds of this group do for day jobs. If only because I often feel that maybe I could relate on some level in which I would sound like less of an idiot. But I guess I could have joined a puters cars group if I wanted to talk about what I am familiar with. Anyway thanks for all your great input and we hope this episode doesnt scar you too badly. Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ain't no chemist
Oh boy I bet you all couldn't wait to hear what my next stupid question will be. I also ain't no chemist, very few of us are chemists, but we can learn, and do. When I read this from Keith I just had to speak out again. Thank goodness. I was beginning to feel like everything you all talk about is over my head, at the very least at the peripheral of my understanding. So far, with this group I feel like my mind has been stretched every day with every email. It has been very humbling to say the least. So here is my question. What is your (anybody) favorite biofuel? I realize that a favorite might be totally regional. What works best in one place may not be feasible in another. I came to this group because I was interested in converting small diameter Ponderosa Pines into a fermentable feedstock because that is what we have an abundance of here in New Mexico. Not so much farming going on here as we are at 7500 feet above sea level and the growing season is short. We have our hearts set on fermentation and distillation and the last couple of links like this one: http://lorien.ncl.ac.uk/ming/distil/distil0.htm give us hope. I promised my Dad last night as I returned to the ranch from my weekly think-tank beer swilling meeting that I would send him that link again because he is a scientist, a chemist to be precise. I am interested in what you do, what is easiest and what works the best. My parents live 500 hundred feet from our house here on the ranch. I know that distance because we dug the waterline by hand. Anyway I have been forwarding information from you to Dad daily just to bounce ideas off of him. Coincidentally, day before yesterday he lent us Lifting the fog: the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a documentary. My Dad is pretty cool, I know. Anyway I got into a heated discussion with Dad who is 87 and I fairly drunk. Still I recall telling Dad that one of the threads you all discussed to my satisfaction was just this topic. Mom was losing patience with the conversation and tells me my wife is waiting out in the car. I said I know I better go. When I got outside she was gone. Hey but like I said it is only 500 feet. Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima
robert luis rabello wrote I just watched a documentary on the Nagasaki bombing a few nights ago. One of the points brought out in the film concerned the division within the "big 6", a council of Japanese military leaders, regarding the conditions for surrender. They knew their war had been lost, but three of them were seeking "peace with honor", while the allies were pushing for unconditional surrender. Was this documentary called Lifting of the fog: the Bombings of Hiroshima And Nagasaki? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Distillation information
Ken Provost wrote: on 8/9/05 2:34 PM, des at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While researching online re: methanol recovery, and the current thread on ethanol, I found what seems to be a great site on everything one would want to know about the distillation process. It's at: http://lorien.ncl.ac.uk/ming/distil/distil0.htm I've only gotten part of the way through all the info there, but thought the info would be good to share. The only reason I made it all the way through is because when I got to all the in-depth charts I zoomed past looking more at the mechanics of the thing. Yup, that's a great site -- finally I understand the difference between a maximum and minimum azeotrope. Well, I probly learned it 35 years ago in PChem, but I haven't known it RECENTLY :-) Thx -- it's been bookmarked. -K Very interesting for sure. I have never seen this process described quite so well before. Being a hardware man I really like the way the site shows how the shelves percolate and the steam interacts with the feedstock. Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism
Great. Not only do I have get rid of a gallon of RoundUp but now I have to REBALANCE my stock portfolio. Nuts. Anyone know about socially responsible investing funds? -Mike Keith Addison wrote: rich wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't do this! While the comment below may be technically correct, there aren't 'enough' of us to do this and buying shares only encourages Monsanto to keep it up. IMHO our energies and monies are better spent trying to expose the lies, hidden agendas, and environmentally unsound practices these guys are about, and making sure as many people as possible become aware of the things that might make them wake up and begin to make informed choices themselves. Monsanto and all thier shareholders can do nothing but change to survive if they eventually cannot find thier markets for what they currently sell. Joe Mike, you can start by buying Monsanto stock. With enough stockholders submitting proxy proposals (and enough stockholders accepting them), that may obligate the board to put them in practice. Richard I'm talking about getting just enough shares to be able to vote on the proxies. How about these? http://www.umass.edu/peri/resources/Toxics100table.htm Toxics 100 table Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lye and Methanol in Ottawa (was no subject)
Anhydrous methanol is available from monarch oils in Kitchener at $27.45 for 5 gal pail and $59.50 for 45 Gal drum. KOH available from Alphachem in Mississauga 2kg - $27.45 10 kg - $190.50 50 kg - $725.00 You need a hazardous materials transport license to transport more than 2kg and they ask for it. But they will deliver to your door for about 30 bucks. Joe Vincent zadworny wrote: hey ray, i produce bio diesel here in vancouver and have found a few different places that sell methanol and lye. a company called UNIVAR supplies both products out here for the larger amounts but when i was first starting i didn't need a 55 gallon drum and a 1kg bag so i found a smaller place called Xenex and they sold 2 litre quantities. but have a look in the yellow pages under chemicals here there is about half a page of listings vince z Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Ray, Jesse and all. Yes, Jesse, busy is a good word for it just now. OK Ray, by MeOH, you mean methanol right? (CH4OH). There are indeed race tracks in the Ottawa area. The Ottodrome International Speedway (Stittsville) and Luskville Dragway come to mind. I have no idea if they run methanol at either, but you can call them up and see where you get. (As an avid electric vehicle guy, I don't hang out with those folks much.) I'm assuming you are looking for small quantities (10s, not 1000s of litres). For methanol, go to Canadian Tire, in the paint section. Find their paint thinner, called methyl hydrate. Same thing as methanol. Comes in 4 litre containers, about Cdn$8 each, IIRC. So, $40 for 20L. For Lye (NaOH), try a Home Hardware store. They sell a container about 3 kg, with resealable lid. Don't recall the price, but not prohibitive. Forget Fisher Scientific, they don't want to deal with folks like us (e.g. minimum charge of $200 per order, before shipping and taxes). If you are looking for larger quantities, let me know. I did some research a while ago. Distributors are looking to deliver multiple (e.g. 10 or more) 200 L barrels of methanol as a shipment. I think lye was in the order of 1000 kg for an order from distributor. In between those, try a company like W.O. Stinson fuels for the methanol, and soap-makers suppliers for the lye. Darryl McMahon Hi Ray, No answers? don't despair. Our dear Darryl must be busy. He's up near you. The lye is not expensive, a Cdn Tire thing, and he told me last year where to get methanol. Erg, I'm looking for it in the old letters. Jesse From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 14:50:48 -0400 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) Hello to my fellow brewers from Ontario, Canada: I just tried pricing MeOH and NaOH from Fisher Scientific (via Good Health and Safety in Mississauga). MeOH @ $79CAD for 20L and NaOH @ $267CAD for 5kg both before tax and shipping. That won't do! There must be cheaper sources. I'm near Ottawa. How do you make it economically viable? Diesel is running at about $0.90CAD per litre right now, but at these prices I can only hope to break even. Ray -- Ray or Shiraz Ings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-613-253-1311 Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Smallscale Methanol Prduction from Wood Gas
Hi All I'm looking for information in small scale methanol production from wood Gas/synth gas. I have looked at a bunch of Plant level information. I kind of understand the chemistry. But operating a system at the pressures that are used in commercial production is bit impractical. Operation up to 10Bar/1Mp/150psi are achievable. I have found a little info on small-scale, but no details on catalyst reactions and practical designs. There is lots of good info on wood gas production and designs. Does anyone know of any information on wood gas generators that are designed to run on concentrated O2 rather than AIR. I was thinking if the excess Nitrogen could be eliminated from the wood gas the compression and catalysizing to methanol would be much simpler. I have a surplus zyolite based O2 generator (90%-95% 5 cfm ) that could be used. Thanks Mark ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Re: Smallscale Methanol Prduction from Wood Gas
Hi Mark Hi All I'm looking for information in small scale methanol production from wood Gas/synth gas. I have looked at a bunch of Plant level information. I kind of understand the chemistry. But operating a system at the pressures that are used in commercial production is bit impractical. Operation up to 10Bar/1Mp/150psi are achievable. I have found a little info on small-scale, but no details on catalyst reactions and practical designs. See links to the whole thread at the end of the pages: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg28829.html [biofuel] Handy alternative http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg29793.html Re: [biofuel] New catalysis/methanol http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30160.html [biofuel] working on the methanol part http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg36113.html [biofuel] Gasification of biomass and glycerol http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34548.html [biofuel] Syngas to methanol http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg39729.html [Biofuel] Methanol update http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg45332.html Re: [Biofuel] Methanol backyard manufacturing possible? HTH. Keith There is lots of good info on wood gas production and designs. Does anyone know of any information on wood gas generators that are designed to run on concentrated O2 rather than AIR. I was thinking if the excess Nitrogen could be eliminated from the wood gas the compression and catalysizing to methanol would be much simpler. I have a surplus zyolite based O2 generator (90%-95% 5 cfm ) that could be used. Thanks Mark ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
hakan, sorry to hear the news. i've been there myself. i still remember very clearly how the intruder's grimy fingers left several very distinct fingerprints on a windowsill, which i pointed out to the police. they didn't bother to collect them. -chris b. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
or just using different data, or more complete data, or representing it more honestly. to suggest or imply dishonesty on the part of dod would hardly be a stretch. this is the same dod that so incredibly (intentionally?) mishandled the invasion/overthrow. the same dod that suppresses or ignores any information related to the devastating, and devastatingly lethal, impact this war has had on the people of iraq. the same dod that maintains a blackout on those oh so unflattering flag-draped casket images. -chris b. In a message dated 8/11/05 7:49:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If McLaughlin his claiming 25,000+ he's either doing one of three things: a) using bad data b) including non-US forces c)implying the DoD is lying. Given the willingness of the Pentagon to openly contradict the Cheney and Rumsfeld spin as needed, I have enough faith in their professionalism to assume these numbers haven't been cooked. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism
Greetings, It is difficult to decide where to invest today and not feel that your money is supporting your enemies. If you invest in yourself first, you can be a good example of how to live gently on Mother Earth. Make sure you are living sustainably and eating healthy, local, naturally grown food. Learn to use the tools that allow you to process the food yourself. The banks and lending institutes no longer want the small loans, many won't talk to anyone wanting less than $20,000. For small sole proprietors, this can be a real hardship. Investing $5,000 or $10,000 in a well run, local, small business can be a real good investment that you can feel great about. This takes more work but I am finding it a worthwhile place to put my money to work. Bright Blessings, Kim At 12:29 PM 8/11/2005, you wrote: Great. Not only do I have get rid of a gallon of RoundUp but now I have to REBALANCE my stock portfolio. Nuts. Anyone know about socially responsible investing funds? -Mike Keith Addison wrote: rich wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't do this! While the comment below may be technically correct, there aren't 'enough' of us to do this and buying shares only encourages Monsanto to keep it up. IMHO our energies and monies are better spent trying to expose the lies, hidden agendas, and environmentally unsound practices these guys are about, and making sure as many people as possible become aware of the things that might make them wake up and begin to make informed choices themselves. Monsanto and all thier shareholders can do nothing but change to survive if they eventually cannot find thier markets for what they currently sell. Joe Mike, you can start by buying Monsanto stock. With enough stockholders submitting proxy proposals (and enough stockholders accepting them), that may obligate the board to put them in practice. Richard I'm talking about getting just enough shares to be able to vote on the proxies. How about these? http://www.umass.edu/peri/resources/Toxics100table.htm Toxics 100 table Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism
Title: Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism if you buy a copy of Mother Jones magazine, there a lot's of funds that buy according to environmental wishes. Lot's of ads in the latest issue. mel -Original Message- From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu 8/11/2005 12:29 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism Great.Not only do I have get rid of a gallon of RoundUp but now I have toREBALANCE my stock portfolio. Nuts.Anyone know about socially responsible investing funds?-MikeKeith Addison wrote: rich wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't do this! While the comment below may be technically correct, there aren't 'enough' of us to do this and buying shares only encourages Monsanto to keep it up. IMHO our energies and monies are better spent trying to expose the lies, hidden agendas, and environmentally unsound practices these guys are about, and making sure as many people as possible become aware of the things that might make them wake up and begin to make informed choices themselves. Monsanto and all thier shareholders can do nothing but change to survive if they eventually cannot find thier markets for what they currently sell. Joe Mike, you can start by buying Monsanto stock. With enough stockholders submitting proxy proposals (and enough stockholders accepting them), that may obligate the board to put them in practice. Richard I'm talking about getting just enough shares to be able to vote on the proxies. How about these? http://www.umass.edu/peri/resources/Toxics100table.htm Toxics 100 table Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The Auto Industry's Last Hope
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050811/the_auto_industrys_last_hope.php The Auto Industry's Last Hope Greg Tarpinian August 11, 2005 Greg Tarpinian is the president and executive director, Labor Research Association, a New York City-based non-profit research and advocacy organization that provides research and educational services for trade unions. After pushing one of the largest companies in the world to the brink of disaster, General Motors executives began their annual meeting with UAW leaders on April 14 with plans to intensify their push for health care benefit cuts. GM announced on March 16 that it would report an $850 million loss for the first quarter of 2005 and earn $1 to $2 per share for the year, down from its earlier forecast of $4 to $5 per share. The company's cash flow is a negative $2 billion. GM's bonds now are rated just above junk, and it still owes billions to its underfunded pension and retiree health plans. Ford cut its profit forecast for the year by 14 percent on April 8 and announced that it will not meet its 2006 goal of $7 billion in pretax profit. Ratings agencies are now poised to downgrade Ford's credit too. Both companies will cut production and accelerate layoffs for their white-collar workers. GM's salaried workforce has already been hit with substantial job cuts, wage freezes and higher benefit contributions. There is no ready solution for the financial problems that may easily overwhelm these companies. Ford is sitting on an inventory of almost 900,000 vehicles; GM faces substantial overcapacity. Although GM executives continue to claim that they can regain market share, industry analysts uniformly agree that GM and Ford have permanently lost their positions as the leading car companies in the United States U.S. market share for the American automakers fell from 65 percent in 1994 to 42 percent last year. Toyota displaced Ford as the second-largest car seller in the country for reasons that have nothing to do with Ford's higher benefit costs. The U.S. automakers have been digging their own graves for years, but GM faces the highest costs because of its misguided expansion two decades ago. The U.S. automakers have squandered market share and mismanaged resources, but would like to blame benefit costs for the financial crisis they have been courting for two decades. The financial crisis born of mismanagement leaves the companies facing costs they cannot cover, including health care costs. GM paid out $5.2 billion for health care benefits in 2004 and expects to pay out $5.8 billion this year. These benefit costs are part of the total compensation negotiated in union contracts that traded what would have been higher wage increases for better benefit provisions. Health benefits, including retiree benefits, are simply wages delivered in a different form or, in the case of retirees, deferred for payment later. The U.S. automakers are now pressing for the equivalent of a wage cut for its union workers and take-backs from its retirees. The costs have been exacerbated by the unwillingness of the Bush administration and Congress to address the catastrophic rise of health care costs in the United States. GM's $73 billion liability for retiree health benefits could be covered three times over by the amount the United States squanders every year on administrative costs for its private health care system. China and India will begin exporting cars to the United States within the next few years. Carmakers in both countries benefit from national health care systems that pay for employee benefits with public funds. The U.S. automakers are moving more production to Canada where a national health care program provides coverage for workers and their families for less than one-fifth of the cost of health benefits on the U.S. side of the border. Benefit costs account for 28.8 percent of compensation costs for private sector production workers in the United States, compared with 17.0 percent in Japan, 16.6 percent in Canada and 17.6 percent in the United Kingdom. Three-fourths of the difference in benefit costs stems from the private health insurance system in the United States The Bush administration has a choice. It can preside over the dissolution of what remains of the U.S. auto industry or it can take the first steps toward a national solution for the health care cost crisis that is distorting labor markets, driving down disposable income, leaving millions of Americans without health care and creating the largest competitive disadvantage that U.S. companies now face. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http
[Biofuel] Sustainable World Coming
The Institute of Science in Society Science Society Sustainability http://www.i-sis.org.uk ISIS Press Release 08/08/05 Sustainable World Coming Independent scientists, economists, politicians, and activists met to share knowledge and ideas for sustainable food systems as the industrial model is close to collapse. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Rhea Gala reports on the Sustainable World First International Conference Independent scientists join forces with global civil society Independent scientists from four continents joined national politicians and many interested individuals and groups to discuss strategies for changing agriculture worldwide to a diversity of locally-based sustainable systems that can provide food sovereignty and security to all and protect the earth from the ravages of global warming. This was the occasion of the Sustainable World Global Initiative's first International Conference, organised by ISIS, which took place 14-15 July, starting in the UK Parliament in Westminster, London, to a near-capacity audience that includes people who have come from Scotland, Wales and Ireland, Belgium, Australia and South Africa. The need to move away from large-scale high input industrial monocultures has long been accepted by many people as being essential for providing livelihoods to the many millions of small farmers in the South and the relatively few farmers remaining in the North, who are also responsible for conserving our plant and animal genetic diversity that have been decimated by decades of industrial monocultures. There is now an added sense of urgency as the industrial model is showing all the signs of failing under global warming, and water and oil, on which industrial monocultures are heavily dependent are both rapidly depleting. Policies that promote food export and contravene human rights in the South also exacerbate global warming by adding food miles, or worse, encouraging food swaps - shipment of the same food commodities such as milk and meat - across the globe. World cereal yields from conventional industrial agriculture have been decreasing for four years in a row; so it was highly significant that speakers shared their experience of sustainable agriculture systems from around the world, which outperform the industrial model in productivity while restoring autonomy and responsibility to farmers, and result in greater social participation within the local community. But what policy and structural changes are needed to implement truly sustainable food systems? The big picture Dr Mae-Wan Ho, director of ISIS and member of the Independent Science Panel opened the proceedings by introducing the Sustainable World Global Initiative. She berated governments and political leaders for their overwhelming commitment to the prevailing neo-liberal economic model that underlies social inequity, environmental destruction and global warming and emphasised that there is a wealth of existing knowledge that can both provide sufficient food for everyone and ameliorate climate change. Chairperson Peter Ainsworth MP introduced Alan Simpson MP who declared that irreverence, heresy, and the breaking of rules were necessary to raise awareness in the face of deepening water, energy and food insecurity. He warned that by 2025, 6bn people will suffer water stress, causing 'water wars'; yet decades of overproduction by agribusiness is a major cause of water depletion. He advocated the removal of patenting and intellectual property rights and, instead, to reinstate the public ownership of useful technologies that save resources. Woking, an English town with a population of around 100 000, for example, currently controls and produces 135% of its energy from renewable sources. Alan warned strongly against the nuclear option. He said that there are dissenters in all parties who believe in the return and development of diverse and sustainable food production and the right of all countries to meet their own food security needs without external interference. He spoke in favour of localised sustainable systems that are connected and informed internationally. Sue Edwards apologised for Dr Tewolde Berhan Gebre Egziabher's absence and presented his paper that posed the question 'What does the word 'sustainable' mean in the context of food for everyone?' It means that food must be available to the very poorest person now, and into the indefinite future. There is currently both plenty of food that is overeaten by some, and plenty of hunger, even where food is present. If people were to become the sole inheritors of the Earth, which is threatened by mass extinctions caused by capitalization/commercialization of all our resources, then we shall all be dead, he said. Therefore a more equitable system is urgently needed that is committed to reducing or at least maintaining populations at a sustainable level; and at the same time, the
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Hakan, I'm very sorry to hear of your loss as many others have expressed. I'm using an alarm system now to wake me up once my initial door or windowbarriers are breached. It'll probably give me a heart attack if it goes off while I'm asleep as it's very loud. This was the first vacation that I've taken since the last time I was hit and it seems a useful deterant. They aren't all that expensive and a must for me to maintain my insurance. Take heart you're not alone. Tom Irwin From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 02:58:48 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power26 hours ago, I woke up to the sound of our dogs barking. I slept hard, so she probably gone on for a while. When she would not stop, I went up to tell her of. She was standing in the front door that was open, just as much as she could not get out. After looking in my office, I discovered that my computer (a notebook) was gone and so was my wife's, further checking proved that some more valuables was gone. If it wasn't for Foxy, probably or lot more would have been gone.It was an enormous feeling of violation and I spent the whole day with the police and to sort things out. Discovered also that my CD case with the normal and recent back ups was gone. Maybe it was good that I did not wake up a few minutes earlier, because it would probably led to that ether myself or others would have been hurt. I was in a mood that I easily could have picked a fight.It has taken me 26 hours without sleep, to get that far that I can send this letter. I also had to secure the remote servers and change a lot of passwords. Not that anyone, including me, belive that they would be able or want to connect and do anything. Only the risk, means that I must work hard and fast in the right order to minimize the possibilities.It is places where normal honest people, suddenly and without any obvious reason can get their front door knocked down. They will be searched and the intruders will claim whatever they like to label as illegal, without proper definitions, and arrest normal people like yourself and members of your family. It is worse and even more humiliating. How can any sane person even expect or at least say that this would lead to "winning the hearts and minds", the one who says so, must be pretty stupid or lying. The people that belive them must be even more stupid, or be without the slightest capacity of imagination and understanding.Hakan ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism
I used to subscribe but it made me so upset I let it lapse. Mel Riser wrote: if you buy a copy of Mother Jones magazine, there a lot's of funds that buy according to environmental wishes. Lot's of ads in the latest issue. mel -Original Message- *From:* Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Thu 8/11/2005 12:29 PM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Cc:* *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism Great. Not only do I have get rid of a gallon of RoundUp but now I have to REBALANCE my stock portfolio. Nuts. Anyone know about socially responsible investing funds? -Mike Keith Addison wrote: rich wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't do this! While the comment below may be technically correct, there aren't 'enough' of us to do this and buying shares only encourages Monsanto to keep it up. IMHO our energies and monies are better spent trying to expose the lies, hidden agendas, and environmentally unsound practices these guys are about, and making sure as many people as possible become aware of the things that might make them wake up and begin to make informed choices themselves. Monsanto and all thier shareholders can do nothing but change to survive if they eventually cannot find thier markets for what they currently sell. Joe Mike, you can start by buying Monsanto stock. With enough stockholders submitting proxy proposals (and enough stockholders accepting them), that may obligate the board to put them in practice. Richard I'm talking about getting just enough shares to be able to vote on the proxies. How about these? http://www.umass.edu/peri/resources/Toxics100table.htm Toxics 100 table Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima
Brian Rodgers wrote: Was this documentary called Lifting of the fog: the Bombings of Hiroshima And Nagasaki? No. The documentary dealt specifically with Nagasaki. Two of the men onboard the Bocks Car B 29 were interviewed, as well as a number of Japanese who survived the ordeal and the usual expert panel that consisted of three or four people with opposing views. I don't remember the name of the film, but there was nothing more than a cursory mention of Hiroshima. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] washing?
I did notice that a lot of the chemistry in the book was wrong. His main argument seemed to be against losing the energy in the methanol that was washed out. He does recommend not using BD with certain types of tubes, as the methanol will destroy it. I am certainly planning on washing my BD, I just wonder if he's had any problems in the ten or more years he's been making his without washing it. I know about the chemical equilibrium, and not to try to remove methanol until the layers are seperated. I'm just wondering if Tickell is so worried about wasting the methanol by washing it out if there is a better way of retrieving it without worrying about leaving all that other garbage in your BD. Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings the skapegoatThe JTF website strongly recommends washing and the Josh Tickell book seems to suggest it isn't necessary and possibly even detrimental.Bad book! See:http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/31729/You might also note that the JtF website says why it strongly recommends washing, with a couple of references provided (there could have been plenty more):http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#whyWashing: Why bother?IIRC Joshua Tickell provides one obscure and outdated reference. Rudi Weidegger of FuelMeister fame (or infamy), who Joshua's since teamed up with, also recommends no washing and says it's bad for your motor, with no references, but then he doesn't provide a washtank in his exorbitant set-up.Ho-hum.Anyway, to believe that you'd have to believe that all the national standards are based on nothing. Some people do seem to believe that. That's their business, as long as they keep their crappy fuel to themselves.I'm interested in some insight on this difference of opinion. I'm sure most experienced biodieselers here wash their biodiesel.Would it be worthwhile to distill the methanol from the biodiesel instead of just washing it away?The most convenient stage to reclaim the excess methanol would be immediately after the processing, when the mix is still hot. Unfortunately that means you reverse the very reaction you've just completed (hopefully completed). You have to settle and separate the glycerine by-product first. Most of the excess methanol is in the by-product; the small proportion in the biodiesel can be recovered, if you can find an economical way of doing it.I know this still leaves excess hydroxidesAnd soaps.that still need to be washed out, but it might reduce the number of washes necessaryDoubtful.and you might be able to save some of your methanol.Indeed.Best wishesKeith___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism
I googled seed savers and got 13,000 sites. This looks especially good: http://www.seedsavers.org/ Seed Savers Exchange is a nonprofit organization that saves and shares the heirloom seeds of our garden heritage, forming a living legacy that can be passed down through generations. When people grow and save seeds, they join an ancient tradition as stewards, nurturing our diverse, fragile, genetic and cultural heritage. Our organization is saving the worlds diverse, but endangered, garden heritage for future generations by building a network of people committed to collecting, conserving and sharing heirloom seeds and plants, while educating people about the value of genetic and cultural diversity. Few gardeners comprehend the true scope of their garden heritage or how much is in immediate danger of being lost forever. Mailing Address 3094 North Winn Road Decorah, IA 52101 Ph: 563-382-5990 Fax: 563-382-5872 From this location we manage all administrative operations, memberships, mail orders and shipping, preservation gardens, seed production and seed storage. We also have a visitors center and garden store that sells seeds, gardening supplies and gifts. In the spring we offer transplants for sale as well. Our office is open Monday through Friday 9:00AM to 5:00PM CST. The Visitors Center is open Monday through Friday from 9:00AM to 5:00PM CST. and 10:00AM to 5:00PM on Saturday Sunday Marilyn ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] washing?
on 8/11/05 4:56 PM, the skapegoat at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: His main argument seemed to be against losing the energy in the methanol that was washed out. The energy does you no good if your particular thermodynamic cycle can't take advantage of it. What is the cetane rating of methanol? I'm just wondering if Tickell is so worried about wasting the methanol by washing it out if there is a better way of retrieving it. Not much MeOH left in the biodiesel. Most goes into the glycerol phase, particularly if you do a water addition to the glycerol. Best to retrieve it from there. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sustainable World Coming
"Tewolde warned against GM crops that represent a further decrease in diversity and an increase in the privatisation of nature." The thing I'm trying to wrap my mind around is the idea of nearly everything becoming someone else's intellectual property. That is to say, if a company has the "legal" authority to tell us what we can and can't do with food, how does a government (not of, by,or for the people) enforce it without a police-state? Furthermore, if revolutions can start with a bread revolt, what happenswhen the government not only controls the entire food supply, but literallytakes food away from you because you "broke the law"? With multinational corporations currently taking over governments and beginning to take control of the food supply, how can anyone not believe that a worldwide revolt is in the future of us or our children unless there is a spike in public education - soon? Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sustainable World Coming
on 8/11/05 6:01 PM, Michael Redler at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how can anyone not believe that a worldwide revolt is in the future of us or our children unless there is a spike in public education - soon? Maybe education will HELP the revolt/revolution. The more I understand what's happening, the more revolted I feel. Maybe that means something on a broader scale, vis-a-vis Revolution. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Auto Industry's Last Hope
Well, this is a bit of a half-baked response to Detroit deterioration: The Bush administration has a choice. It can preside over the dissolution of what remains of the U.S. auto industry or it can take the first steps toward a national solution for the health care cost crisis that is distorting labor markets, driving down disposable income, leaving millions of Americans without health care and creating the largest competitive disadvantage that U.S. companies now face Ford is sitting on an inventory of 900,000 vehicles. Fewer people are finding cash to buy. The cars being sold are gas hogs. And the author only points out that Bush has a choice, referring to reducing health care costs? Somebody swat Mr. Tarpinian and put him back in his playpen. Imports are taking over market share for one very simple reason - fuel economy. If Bush can't get off his ass and lend some assistance and enticement to get Detroit to change what it keeps cranking out, he's going to be presiding over a number of corporate funerals before his term is up. (Didn't I say just the other day that it would take less than three years? My how time flies) But I guess we should all be thankful, huh? Surely we're much better off now than we were five and one-half years ago, right? Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050811/the_auto_industrys_last_hope.php The Auto Industry's Last Hope Greg Tarpinian August 11, 2005 Greg Tarpinian is the president and executive director, Labor Research Association, a New York City-based non-profit research and advocacy organization that provides research and educational services for trade unions. After pushing one of the largest companies in the world to the brink of disaster, General Motors executives began their annual meeting with UAW leaders on April 14 with plans to intensify their push for health care benefit cuts. GM announced on March 16 that it would report an $850 million loss for the first quarter of 2005 and earn $1 to $2 per share for the year, down from its earlier forecast of $4 to $5 per share. The company's cash flow is a negative $2 billion. GM's bonds now are rated just above junk, and it still owes billions to its underfunded pension and retiree health plans. Ford cut its profit forecast for the year by 14 percent on April 8 and announced that it will not meet its 2006 goal of $7 billion in pretax profit. Ratings agencies are now poised to downgrade Ford's credit too. Both companies will cut production and accelerate layoffs for their white-collar workers. GM's salaried workforce has already been hit with substantial job cuts, wage freezes and higher benefit contributions. There is no ready solution for the financial problems that may easily overwhelm these companies. Ford is sitting on an inventory of almost 900,000 vehicles; GM faces substantial overcapacity. Although GM executives continue to claim that they can regain market share, industry analysts uniformly agree that GM and Ford have permanently lost their positions as the leading car companies in the United States U.S. market share for the American automakers fell from 65 percent in 1994 to 42 percent last year. Toyota displaced Ford as the second-largest car seller in the country for reasons that have nothing to do with Ford's higher benefit costs. The U.S. automakers have been digging their own graves for years, but GM faces the highest costs because of its misguided expansion two decades ago. The U.S. automakers have squandered market share and mismanaged resources, but would like to blame benefit costs for the financial crisis they have been courting for two decades. The financial crisis born of mismanagement leaves the companies facing costs they cannot cover, including health care costs. GM paid out $5.2 billion for health care benefits in 2004 and expects to pay out $5.8 billion this year. These benefit costs are part of the total compensation negotiated in union contracts that traded what would have been higher wage increases for better benefit provisions. Health benefits, including retiree benefits, are simply wages delivered in a different form or, in the case of retirees, deferred for payment later. The U.S. automakers are now pressing for the equivalent of a wage cut for its union workers and take-backs from its retirees. The costs have been exacerbated by the unwillingness of the Bush administration and Congress to address the catastrophic rise of health care costs in the United States. GM's $73 billion liability for retiree health benefits could be covered three times over by the amount the United States squanders every year on administrative costs for its private health care system. China and India will begin exporting cars to the United States within the next few years. Carmakers in both countries benefit from national health care systems that pay for employee benefits
Re: [Biofuel] washing?
His main argument seemed to be against losing the energy in the methanol that was washed out Why wash it out? Why not evaporate it and recover it, even as small a value as it is, rather than flush it with the wash water? I'll leave the energy and bio-accumlation numbers to the slide rule folks, but in an efficient setup, the energy used to recover the methanol from the biodiesel fraction can be used to raise the temperature of the feedstock for the next batch to the reaction level. Presume you have a 160* evaporation temperature and the incoming feedstock is 70*. In a perfect world half of that difference can be transferred to the incoming oil, raising it to 115*. Go one step further when drying washed fuel, which may have a pre-dried temp of 70*F. The diff between 115* and 70* would raise the fuel back up to approximately 90*. The wash water is not waste, when all is said and done. It's irrigation. Recover the soaps by using aluminum or magnesium sulfide (epsom salt), which converts the water soluble soaps to non-soluble greases. These have an energy content that can be recovered in a solid fuels boiler. Or, you can grease the axles of your Sunday-go-to-meetin' buggy. The water can then be applied as gray water irrigation. The sulfur content would have to be monitored. But there are crops that tend to rather like sulfur to a small degree. At the same time the recovered catalyst (converted to fertilizer) can be diluted and dispersed with the gray water. That leaves only the glycerol, either to sell or disperse with the treated wash water, as the recovered FFAs are returned to the acid cycle or used as boiler fuel. Todd Swearingen skapegoat wrote: I did notice that a lot of the chemistry in the book was wrong. His main argument seemed to be against losing the energy in the methanol that was washed out. He does recommend not using BD with certain types of tubes, as the methanol will destroy it. I am certainly planning on washing my BD, I just wonder if he's had any problems in the ten or more years he's been making his without washing it. I know about the chemical equilibrium, and not to try to remove methanol until the layers are seperated. I'm just wondering if Tickell is so worried about wasting the methanol by washing it out if there is a better way of retrieving it without worrying about leaving all that other garbage in your BD. */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Greetings the skapegoat The JTF website strongly recommends washing and the Josh Tickell book seems to suggest it isn't necessary and possibly even detrimental. Bad book! See: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/31729/ You might also note that the JtF website says why it strongly recommends washing, with a couple of references provided (there could have been plenty more): http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#why Washing: Why bother? IIRC Joshua Tickell provides one obscure and outdated reference. Rudi Weidegger of FuelMeister fame (or infamy), who Joshua's since teamed up with, also recommends no washing and says it's bad for your motor, with no references, but then he doesn't provide a washtank in his exorbitant set-up. Ho-hum. Anyway, to believe that you'd have to believe that all the national standards are based on nothing. Some people do seem to believe that. That's their business, as long as they keep their crappy fuel to themselves. I'm interested in some insight on this difference of opinion. I'm sure most experienced biodieselers here wash their biodiesel. Would it be worthwhile to distill the methanol from the biodiesel instead of just washing it away? The most convenient stage to reclaim the excess methanol would be immediately after the processing, when the mix is still hot. Unfortunately that means you reverse the very reaction you've just completed (hopefully completed). You have to settle and separate the glycerine by-product first. Most of the excess methanol is in the by-product; the small proportion in the biodiesel can be recovered, if you can find an economical way of doing it. I know this still leaves excess hydroxides And soaps. that still need to be washed out, but it might reduce the number of washes necessary Doubtful. and you might be able to save some of your methanol. Indeed. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Send instant messages to your online
Re: [Biofuel] The Auto Industry's Last Hope
Since theBush administration is proving itself to be one of the most destructive in American history, one might wonder what will happen if the citizens of this country begin to push the issue of renewable/sustainable energy through the influence of their own life choices (what they buy, what they eat, etc.). WillBush's spin doctors begin to hijack a legacy that they made every effort to destroy? I'm not vindictive. I just want an accurate account of what happened so that history may teach future generations. ...OK, maybe I would like a little can of whoop-ass opened on dubya just to return the favor. MikeAppal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, this is a bit of a half-baked response to Detroit deterioration: The Bush administration has a choice. It can preside over the dissolution of what remains of the U.S. auto industry or it can take the first steps toward a national solution for the health care cost crisis that is distorting labor markets, driving down disposable income, leaving millions of Americans without health care and creating the largest competitive disadvantage that U.S. companies now faceFord is sitting on an inventory of 900,000 vehicles. Fewer people are finding cash to buy. The cars being sold are gas hogs. And the author only points out that Bush has "a" choice, referring to reducing health care costs?Somebody swat Mr. Tarpinian and put him back in his playpen.Imports are taking over market share for one very simple reason - fuel economy.If Bush can't get off his ass and lend some assistance and enticement to get Detroit to change what it keeps cranking out, he's going to be presiding over a number of corporate funerals before his term is up. (Didn't I say just the other day that it would take less than three years? My how time flies)But I guess we should all be thankful, huh? Surely we're "much better off now than we were five and one-half years ago, right?Todd Swearingen___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel
Hi Tom Let me see if I 've got this right. BD made with Animal fat solidifies at a higher temp than WVO? This could be handy info as a lot of the chippies here use lard.FortunatleyI think I've got onto a source of WVO. Diesel prices in NZ are now a $1 pL for your interest Ian - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Hi Ian and Theresa, Definitely have to agree with Todd here. I´ve been doing a lot of work making BioD from animal fat. It resolidifies at relatively high temperatures. I left 2 liters in a hood in my lab over winter break. They turn off the heat here cause we rarely get freezing temperatures. We have a few days down to about 5 degrees C and some as high as 22. When I returned to the lab it was chilly again and the BioD was a yellowish white solid. With the heat on the last two weeks it´s liquified and looks just like it did originally but I haven´t engine tested it yet to see if it still really is BioD. Tom Irwin From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:44:42 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production.Keep it in an airtight vessel with only enough head space for thermal expansion and contraction and it will be sufficient beyond this time next year. More probably well beyond that. At least long enough for the fallout to settle, a season's worth of rains to soak it in and you to plant another crop so you can do whatever it is that you feel you must do that can't be done without an infernal combustion engine.Spec it to10 microns filtration and be happy. After that, it's not the sediment that will grab you by the short and curlies but the saturated esters (from animal fats and hydrogenated oils. Depending upon the parent stock, your filter could be throttled by "B-100" at temps as high as 40*F.Last time we rendered deer tallow and made biodiesel from it we were stonewalled after an overnight temp of 56*F.Todd SwearingenIan Theresa Sims wrote: Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production. Can someone clarify the final filter process after production. Some say 5 microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't seem to say anything about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it straight in? Cheers Ian___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.5/67 - Release Date: 9/08/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Re: Re: A beginners titration question
Jan, Thanks for the help. Hello Doug. Keith has made an excellent input to you questions but I felt it necessary to add some aspects of your problem: The rule no1 when taking samples is to make sure - as possible- that the sample is representative for the batch. This sounds simple, but if you are I am still working with fairly small batches so I have been drawing the complete batch out of my holding tank and then taking the test sample from that. I have been titrating that batch multiple times and getting the variation even from that. dealing with high water content together with high FFA levels you will have Does water content itself cause variation or is it changes in the amount of water content that would cause the variation in the titration? different titration values if sampled from the top or from the bottom. If there are detergents in the oil, this actually may help. It is a Detergents? What's the likelihood of picking up detergents in the WVO from a restaurant? Is this something I should watch for or is it simply a matter of more washing? disadvantage when washing the biodiesel though. By using IPA for titration, the general idea is to have one clear phase consisting from IPA, water, KOH (or NaOH) and oil. The EN standard for determination of acid number which is likewise determined by titration strongly recommends that the amount of IPA should be increased if the solution becomes cloudy or turbid. The solution was definitely turbid, but Keith's recommendation (unlike James Bond) was to do the test in a beaker or jar rather than a test tube so that it could be stirred and not shaken By using methanol for titration, you are out of standard procedure. When I started out I got a titration procedure from another site, before I found JTF. The procedures were nearly identical except in the list of what you needed it said to use either Isopropyl, Ethyl, or Methyl. Since I had already invested in a bunch of Methyl alcohol for this adventure and didn't have any isopropyl on hand I started using it. My limited college chemistry had me in the frame of mind that a solvent is a solvent. That's why I asked for an explanation. I can see where the my results could be shifted by what alcohol I am using but it didn't make sense to me that the type of alcohol would cause the huge variation in the test. And - possibly annoying Keith - the EN requirement for a good titration is that the solution stays magenta for at least 15 seconds. This was happening, there was a distinctive cross-over point where the solution would turn magenta for like 10 seconds and then fade to pink. It is just that event happened at substantially different amounts of NaOH. Heating was mentioned as well, and that could be a part of my problem too. I was heating the WVO then mixing it with the alcohol which was at about 95F. I didn't hear the reagent either. I gather they should all be near the process temperature. Thanks again Good luck to you further on ! With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Wauw !! Somebody - and not JUST somebody - on this forum writing in real Dutch. Very good Keith. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel Dag Pieter Hello, Sorry if I start talking about something you are not talking about, because I did not follow this discussion, but I think I can make up that you try to solidify ethanol. You can do that very easy with wallpaperglue ( Carboxyl methyl cellulose ). Just use ethanol in stead of water and make strong glue. Velen bedankt, maar in een 3rde Wereld dorpje is wallpaperglue nie so maklik te vind, en jy kan dit ook nie maklik self maak van locally available renewable resources. Wanneer het jy al ooit erger Nederlands dan die gelesen?!! LOL! Maar miskien kan u dit verstaan... Beste wense Keith Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel There is (apparently) more than one recipe for sterno. We had a thread going a while back that included a method: calcium acetate (egg shells and vinegar) with ethanol. This is from a previous message on ethanol gel: Keith Addison wrote: Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use it for cooking. I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're most interested in, everything required is probably available locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly ubiquitous. Also, from Hoagy (chalk and vinegar, sunshine and moonshine): Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas -- Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves Jelled/Gelled Alcohol http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4). Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel. Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk) in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry. If you are new to chemistry take a look at this high school science project page. Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu elslab.htm A solid camping fuel like Sternoô was discovered several years ago when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove. Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to use an alternative fuel source. One of the campers made a gel that they could use as a solid fuel. To make this gel, chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar. The resulting mixture was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was heated using a solar reflector. Some rubbing alcohol was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned. Step 1: Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . . Step 2: Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . . Step 3: Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . . Step 4: Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . . Step 5: Combustion of fuel produced . . . Step 6: Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more] Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove http://trailquest.net/baking.html Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel - Calcium Acetate http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html Mike TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't jelly solid ethanol Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with methanol? It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems like that's a
Re: [Biofuel] Bring land back from the dead
Kim, where do I find such maps? I have tried Google, but, ended up with world maps, or nothing more than US demographic tables ( which were not very helpful ). Greg H. - Original Message - From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 7:00 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bring land back from the dead Greetings, Get a map that shows illiteracy rates, anywhere that the rate is 40% or better you can find cheap land. Also, most of these areas have no or not enforced building codes. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Diesel Price
Dear All Is there a website that I can access that list the current price of diesel (at retail) in all the countries or most of the countries? Thanks Rgds Michael ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] washing?
I wonder what leaving the extra methanol does to the low temperature flow characteristics of BioDiesel?Could this be an asset during winter? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 18:59 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] washing? on 8/11/05 4:56 PM, the skapegoat at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: His main argument seemed to be against losing the energy in the methanol that was washed out. The energy does you no good if your particular thermodynamic cycle can't take advantage of it. What is the cetane rating of methanol? I'm just wondering if Tickell is so worried about wasting the methanol by washing it out if there is a better way of retrieving it. Not much MeOH left in the biodiesel. Most goes into the glycerol phase, particularly if you do a water addition to the glycerol. Best to retrieve it from there. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Experience with DSE/dieselsecret.com
Hey paul, I read the site, it almost sounds too good to be true. It also sounds as though they are selling you some common chemicals that they want to make a secret in order to ensure profitability. If it works as well as they say though, more power to them. I do not have a diesel right now, but I will try this first when I get one. Ryan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
