from:"Chemical Engineer"

I was hoping they would embrace my theory and observations but I guess it
is a little too early for that.  If everyone could get on the same page
this fledgling industry can generate some serious revenue and transform the
World!

My theory explains the following observations:

Ed Storms, well respected in the field for years predicts based upon
observations the anomalous effect occurs in the cracks and voids of the
lattice. Collapsed matter from hydrogen ion collapse would certainly occur
in these locations due to concentrated energy charges, hoop effect and
collisions. Prof. Celani has witnessed the same effect.

Once collapsed matter singularities are formed they instantaneously seek
thermodynamically stable states with their surroundings. Prof. Celani
witnessed that once his metal lattice had been loaded with hydrogen and had
previously shown anomalous heat generation he could shut the system down,
transport it and it would immediately show further anomalous heat upon
excitation without additional loading. The singularities remained within
the lattice during transportation to Austin.

Conductivity inversion effects in a metal wire/lattice. It is well
understood that a singularity carries charge, angular momentum and radius
like any other particle. It is also understood that when they evaporate
they emit charged particles. This can have a direct effect on the
conductivity of a metal.

Temperature Inversion. Dr. Brian Ahern mentioned temperature inversion
within samples in the nanometer range. It is well understood that
singularites can consume heat from their environment, temporarily cooling
their surroundings. Eventually, they will evaporate that energy and entropy
back to their surroundings through Hawking radiation.

Hawking Radiation should emit RELATIVELY low energy level radiation due to
quantum gravity redshifting of the radiation as it escapes. This has been
witnessed in most all anomalous heat events.

The amount of energy released can be great. This has been witnessed in the
Intelligentry/Papp Engine as well as claimed by Rossi, DGT and Celani.
Since Hawking Radiation obeys e=mc2, very high levels of energy may be
released as the newly formed singularity seeks thermodynamic and spatial
equilibrium within its environment. Some of this radiation may also be
elementry atomic particles such as quarks and gluons.

Hawking radiation may create Fission and Fusion products within the near
vicinity. Since this radiation covers a wide spectrum, it will bombard the
local environment with low level, wide spectrum radiation which over time
should transmute additional elements. The good new is that the quantum
gravitational pull of the singularity will lessen the radiations energy.

Collapse of nearby matter by falling into the singularity may lead to
additional elements being transmuted in the local vicinity.  The radiation
energy from that will also be redshifted to weaker energy emissions.

The “heat after death” syndrome is caused by the ongoing evaporation over
time of the singularities as they continue to seek a thermodynamically
stable state in their immediate environment as well as emit Hawking black
body radiation. This has been witnessed in many cold fusion situations.
 Since singularities emit charged particles they should aid in sustaining
the birth, evolution and evaporation of more singularities in the vicinity.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 3:46 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:

 After watching -with some interruptions due to local conditions-
 the Theory Panel at ICCF-17, my first reaction was to go to the Merriam
 Webster dictionary and to search for the best antinomy of Consensus.
 It is Dissensus. Perhaps reading the text will be more encouraging.
 Peter

 --
 Dr. Peter Gluck
 Cluj, Romania
 http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Theory Panel Dissensus

I forgot one:

Embrittlement.  On-going Hawking radiation within a structure will
gradually decay its integrity due to local heat effects as well as further
collapse and transmutations of local atomic structures.  This has been
witnessed in Mr. Celani's wire.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 6:02 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 I was hoping they would embrace my theory and observations but I guess it
 is a little too early for that.  If everyone could get on the same page
 this fledgling industry can generate some serious revenue and transform the
 World!

 My theory explains the following observations:

 Ed Storms, well respected in the field for years predicts based upon
 observations the anomalous effect occurs in the cracks and voids of the
 lattice. Collapsed matter from hydrogen ion collapse would certainly occur
 in these locations due to concentrated energy charges, hoop effect and
 collisions. Prof. Celani has witnessed the same effect.

 Once collapsed matter singularities are formed they instantaneously seek
 thermodynamically stable states with their surroundings. Prof. Celani
 witnessed that once his metal lattice had been loaded with hydrogen and had
 previously shown anomalous heat generation he could shut the system down,
 transport it and it would immediately show further anomalous heat upon
 excitation without additional loading. The singularities remained within
 the lattice during transportation to Austin.

 Conductivity inversion effects in a metal wire/lattice. It is well
 understood that a singularity carries charge, angular momentum and radius
 like any other particle. It is also understood that when they evaporate
 they emit charged particles. This can have a direct effect on the
 conductivity of a metal.

 Temperature Inversion. Dr. Brian Ahern mentioned temperature inversion
 within samples in the nanometer range. It is well understood that
 singularites can consume heat from their environment, temporarily cooling
 their surroundings. Eventually, they will evaporate that energy and entropy
 back to their surroundings through Hawking radiation.

 Hawking Radiation should emit RELATIVELY low energy level radiation due to
 quantum gravity redshifting of the radiation as it escapes. This has been
 witnessed in most all anomalous heat events.

 The amount of energy released can be great. This has been witnessed in the
 Intelligentry/Papp Engine as well as claimed by Rossi, DGT and Celani.
 Since Hawking Radiation obeys e=mc2, very high levels of energy may be
 released as the newly formed singularity seeks thermodynamic and spatial
 equilibrium within its environment. Some of this radiation may also be
 elementry atomic particles such as quarks and gluons.

 Hawking radiation may create Fission and Fusion products within the near
 vicinity. Since this radiation covers a wide spectrum, it will bombard the
 local environment with low level, wide spectrum radiation which over time
 should transmute additional elements. The good new is that the quantum
 gravitational pull of the singularity will lessen the radiations energy.

 Collapse of nearby matter by falling into the singularity may lead to
 additional elements being transmuted in the local vicinity.  The radiation
 energy from that will also be redshifted to weaker energy emissions.

 The “heat after death” syndrome is caused by the ongoing evaporation over
 time of the singularities as they continue to seek a thermodynamically
 stable state in their immediate environment as well as emit Hawking black
 body radiation. This has been witnessed in many cold fusion situations.
  Since singularities emit charged particles they should aid in sustaining
 the birth, evolution and evaporation of more singularities in the vicinity.

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 3:46 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.comwrote:

 After watching -with some interruptions due to local conditions-
 the Theory Panel at ICCF-17, my first reaction was to go to the Merriam
 Webster dictionary and to search for the best antinomy of Consensus.
 It is Dissensus. Perhaps reading the text will be more encouraging.
 Peter

 --
 Dr. Peter Gluck
 Cluj, Romania
 http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:New comment paper re Defkalion

 150!

Off set by the youth-inducing effects of Russian Vodka? (Just kidding)

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Formally I am almost 75, however the years lived in Communism count
 double; everybody having had this experience will agree.
 Peter


 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote:

 Are you 93?


 2012/8/14 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com

 please have empathy for them, including in the data release issue. and
 patience, What should I say I am at least 3 times older than you

 peter



 --
 Daniel Rocha - RJ
 danieldi...@gmail.com




 --
 Dr. Peter Gluck
 Cluj, Romania
 http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Inspiration

Atomic hydrogen carries an ionization charge last time I checked

On Wednesday, August 15, 2012, P.J van Noorden wrote:

 Hello,

 From Randell Mills I understood that only H can be a catalyst because the
 atom has to be neutral. He+ is not neutral, so it is difficult / impossible
 to collaps.

 Peter van Noorden



 - Original Message - From: mix...@bigpond.com
 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Inspiration


 In reply to  David Roberson's message of Wed, 15 Aug 2012 00:31:31 -0400
 (EDT):
 Hi,
 [snip]


 I was wondering about collapsed helium.  Does the Mills theory support
 the concept?


 My memory on Mills' position is vague. However I fail to see that there is
 any
 great functional difference between H and He+ (apart from the double
 charge on
 the nucleus), so I think it should be possible.
 [snip]
 Regards,

 Robin van Spaandonk

 http://rvanspaa.freehostia.**com/project.htmlhttp://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:Ultra Low Momentum Neutrons

And here is what my theory says about Ultra low momentum neutrons :

If you had just barely escaped the clutches of a micro(quantum)
singularity(black hole) wouldn't you be tired too?

This phenomena supports the redshifting of all radiation coming from near
the singularity

Stewart

Re: [Vo]:New comment paper re Defkalion

Will do!

On Wednesday, August 15, 2012, Peter Gluck wrote:

 We had no Russian Vodka (only Polish Wodka Wyborowa
 good.) More important Romanian Tzuika has helped us to survive, please
 read about Sue Ellen Principle and Kaltwasser Doctrine on my Blog
 Peter

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Chemical Engineer 
 cheme...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'cheme...@gmail.com');
  wrote:

  150!

 Off set by the youth-inducing effects of Russian Vodka? (Just kidding)


 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Peter Gluck 
 peter.gl...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'peter.gl...@gmail.com');
  wrote:

 Formally I am almost 75, however the years lived in Communism count
 double; everybody having had this experience will agree.
 Peter


 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Daniel Rocha 
 danieldi...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'danieldi...@gmail.com');
  wrote:

 Are you 93?


 2012/8/14 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com javascript:_e({},
 'cvml', 'peter.gl...@gmail.com');

 please have empathy for them, including in the data release issue. and
 patience, What should I say I am at least 3 times older than you

 peter



 --
 Daniel Rocha - RJ
 danieldi...@gmail.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'danieldi...@gmail.com');




 --
 Dr. Peter Gluck
 Cluj, Romania
 http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com





 --
 Dr. Peter Gluck
 Cluj, Romania
 http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Inspiration

Ok i stand corrected

On Wednesday, August 15, 2012, Jones Beene wrote:

  Ah, no … you better recheck 

 ** **

 *From:* Chemical Engineer 

 ** **

 Atomic hydrogen carries an ionization charge last time I checked


 

 ** **

Re: [Vo]:Inspiration

OK I will be serious.  I AM SERIOUS - we are birthing maintaining and
evaporating micro black holes.  Not really a big deal because nature does
it all the time.  I just did not realize until recently and I think they
are everywhere.

Sorry, lack of sleep.  Brian Ahern on CMNS did not like my humor either but
did not openly disagree (yet) with my theory.

I am not sure if the guys are collapsing H2, H+, or H- in those voids or
the crosshair of that Papp engine (which I believe is Helium Ions).  I
believe my theory might work for all three and just about any matter given
enough oomph.  A singularity can carry a charge just like any other atomic
structure.  Based upon LHC collision studies, the higher the kinetic energy
at time of collision the greater the chance of collapse.  Throw in quantum
gravity aiding you along with the hoop effect of a void or possible
magnetic field squashing you at the same time and poof! singularity.  I am
also thinking aligning all off those ions with the coil in the Papp engine
makes them sometimes bounce off each other like pool balls with an additive
effect on velocity  energy.

Any upset in their thermodynamic balance or location in space should give
them a fit and trigger the gremlin.



On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:

 I can't tell when CE is serious anymore.

 T

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
  Ah, no … you better recheck
 
 
 
  From: Chemical Engineer
 
 
 
  Atomic hydrogen carries an ionization charge last time I checked

Re: [Vo]:Inspiration

I am an indistrial engineer and have no reputation in the cmns field.  I do
not care one way or the other.  I am connecting dots and visualizing.  I do
read alot of nerdy quantum mechanics stuff and my theory makes sense at
least to me.  The gremlins and chameleons are just for fun and
visualization.

I do have a few beliefs:

23 years is way too long to come up with a good theory and engineered
product if it is real.

Meanwhile we are all aiding in throwing the thermodynamic balance of our
planet way out of whack with all the pollutants we are pumping into the
atmosphere. I have kids and i would like to leave them a planet that was
better then the way we got.  So far I would say NOT

Clean Nuclear fission and fusion don't appear to exist anytime soon.

Solar, wind and bio suck as a source of energy and is an economic step
backwards

On Wednesday, August 15, 2012, Chemical Engineer wrote:

 OK I will be serious.  I AM SERIOUS - we are birthing maintaining and
 evaporating micro black holes.  Not really a big deal because nature does
 it all the time.  I just did not realize until recently and I think they
 are everywhere.

 Sorry, lack of sleep.  Brian Ahern on CMNS did not like my humor either
 but did not openly disagree (yet) with my theory.

 I am not sure if the guys are collapsing H2, H+, or H- in those voids or
 the crosshair of that Papp engine (which I believe is Helium Ions).  I
 believe my theory might work for all three and just about any matter given
 enough oomph.  A singularity can carry a charge just like any other atomic
 structure.  Based upon LHC collision studies, the higher the kinetic energy
 at time of collision the greater the chance of collapse.  Throw in quantum
 gravity aiding you along with the hoop effect of a void or possible
 magnetic field squashing you at the same time and poof! singularity.  I am
 also thinking aligning all off those ions with the coil in the Papp engine
 makes them sometimes bounce off each other like pool balls with an additive
 effect on velocity  energy.

 Any upset in their thermodynamic balance or location in space should give
 them a fit and trigger the gremlin.



 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Terry Blanton 
 hohlr...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'hohlr...@gmail.com');
  wrote:

 I can't tell when CE is serious anymore.

 T

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Jones Beene 
 jone...@pacbell.netjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'jone...@pacbell.net');
 wrote:
  Ah, no … you better recheck
 
 
 
  From: Chemical Engineer
 
 
 
  Atomic hydrogen carries an ionization charge last time I checked

Re: [Vo]:Celani device update

Jed,

What if you make some loud noise around it or shake it?(he probably does
not want you to shake it)  Does the energy output increase?...I am serious.
 The singularities he created in those voids should be sensitive to any
type of external EMR or stimulation

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On 2012-08-15 18:24, Daniel Rocha wrote:

 In the paper, he said he is limited by the use of the kind glass of
 glass, used for observation, which is fragile beginning at 275C. The
 next step, is to use quartz, which can support higher temperatures.


 If peak temperatures are an issue, it could be an idea to decrease input
 power when using more than an active wire in this reactor type. For trade
 shows and the like, this would still lead to a useful (although dumb)
 increase of the COP.

 But I guess Francesco Celani will probably want to increase / improve
 other control parameters first. Using higher temperatures to try reaching a
 self-sustaining operation threshold (as he hopes in his latest
 presentation) might be something that quartz glass could enable.

 Cheers,
 S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Theory Panel Dissensus

No, I am not making it up and it was not a dream

A *charged black hole* is a black
holehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole that
possesses electric charge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge.
Since the electromagnetic repulsion in compressing an electrically charged
mass is dramatically greater than the gravitational attraction (by about 40
orders of magnitude), it is not expected that black holes with a
significant electric charge will be formed in nature.

A charged black hole is one of three possible types of black holes that
could exist in the theory of gravitation called general
relativityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity.
Black holes can be characterized by three (and only
threehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_hair_theorem)
quantities, its

   - mass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass *M* (called a Schwarzschild
   black hole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_black_hole if it
   has no angular momentum and no electric charge),
   - angular momentum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_momentum
*J* (called
   a Kerr black hole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_black_hole if it
   has no charge), and
   - electric charge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge
*Q* (charged
   black hole or Reissner-Nordström black
holehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reissner-Nordstr%C3%B6m_black_hole
if
   the angular momentum is zero or a Kerr-Newman black
holehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr-Newman_black_hole if
   it has both angular momentum and electric charge).

A special, mathematically-oriented article describes the Reissner-Nordström
metric http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reissner-Nordstr%C3%B6m_metric for a
charged, non-rotating black hole.

The solutions of Einstein's field
equationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein%27s_field_equation for
the gravitational field http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_field of
an electrically charged point mass (with zero angular momentum) in empty
space was obtained in 1918 by Hans
Reissnerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reissner
 andGunnar Nordström http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnar_Nordstr%C3%B6m,
not long after Karl
Schwarzschildhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Schwarzschild found
the Schwarzschild metric http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_metric as
a solution for a point mass without electric charge and angular momentum.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 6:02 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 
  Conductivity inversion effects in a metal wire/lattice. It is well
  understood that a singularity carries charge, angular momentum and radius
  like any other particle. It is also understood that when they evaporate
 they
  emit charged particles. This can have a direct effect on the
 conductivity of
  a metal.

 ah... so you are hypothesizing a particle with a set of special properties.
 Sometimes you refer to this particle by the name 'singularity' and
 other times you refer to it by the name 'gremlin'.

 Harry




 harry

Re: [Vo]:Theory Panel Dissensus

No, I am not making it up:

A *charged black hole* is a black
holehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole that
possesses electric charge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge.
Since the electromagnetic repulsion in compressing an electrically charged
mass is dramatically greater than the gravitational attraction (by about 40
orders of magnitude), it is not expected that black holes with a
significant electric charge will be formed in nature.

A charged black hole is one of three possible types of black holes that
could exist in the theory of gravitation called general
relativityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity.
Black holes can be characterized by three (and only
threehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_hair_theorem)
quantities, its

   - mass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass *M* (called a Schwarzschild
   black hole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_black_hole if it
   has no angular momentum and no electric charge),
   - angular momentum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_momentum
*J* (called
   a Kerr black hole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_black_hole if it
   has no charge), and
   - electric charge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge
*Q* (charged
   black hole or Reissner-Nordström black
holehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reissner-Nordstr%C3%B6m_black_hole
if
   the angular momentum is zero or a Kerr-Newman black
holehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr-Newman_black_hole if
   it has both angular momentum and electric charge).

A special, mathematically-oriented article describes the Reissner-Nordström
metric http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reissner-Nordstr%C3%B6m_metric for a
charged, non-rotating black hole.

The solutions of Einstein's field
equationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein%27s_field_equation for
the gravitational field http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_field of
an electrically charged point mass (with zero angular momentum) in empty
space was obtained in 1918 by Hans
Reissnerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reissner
 andGunnar Nordström http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnar_Nordstr%C3%B6m,
not long after Karl
Schwarzschildhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Schwarzschild found
the Schwarzschild metric http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_metric as
a solution for a point mass without electric charge and angular momentum.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 6:02 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 
  Conductivity inversion effects in a metal wire/lattice. It is well
  understood that a singularity carries charge, angular momentum and radius
  like any other particle. It is also understood that when they evaporate
 they
  emit charged particles. This can have a direct effect on the
 conductivity of
  a metal.

 ah... so you are hypothesizing a particle with a set of special properties.
 Sometimes you refer to this particle by the name 'singularity' and
 other times you refer to it by the name 'gremlin'.

 Harry




 harry

Re: [Vo]:Theory Panel Dissensus

The mass sets the radius

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 No, I am not making it up:

 A *charged black hole* is a black 
 holehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole that
 possesses electric charge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge.
 Since the electromagnetic repulsion in compressing an electrically charged
 mass is dramatically greater than the gravitational attraction (by about 40
 orders of magnitude), it is not expected that black holes with a
 significant electric charge will be formed in nature.

 A charged black hole is one of three possible types of black holes that
 could exist in the theory of gravitation called general 
 relativityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity.
 Black holes can be characterized by three (and only 
 threehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_hair_theorem)
 quantities, its

- mass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass *M* (called a Schwarzschild
black hole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_black_hole if
it has no angular momentum and no electric charge),
- angular momentum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_momentum *J* 
 (called
a Kerr black hole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_black_hole if it
has no charge), and
- electric charge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge *Q* 
 (charged
black hole or Reissner-Nordström black 
 holehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reissner-Nordstr%C3%B6m_black_hole if
the angular momentum is zero or a Kerr-Newman black 
 holehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr-Newman_black_hole if
it has both angular momentum and electric charge).

 A special, mathematically-oriented article describes the Reissner-Nordström
 metric http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reissner-Nordstr%C3%B6m_metric for
 a charged, non-rotating black hole.

 The solutions of Einstein's field 
 equationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein%27s_field_equation for
 the gravitational field http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_field of
 an electrically charged point mass (with zero angular momentum) in empty
 space was obtained in 1918 by Hans 
 Reissnerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reissner
  andGunnar Nordström http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnar_Nordstr%C3%B6m,
 not long after Karl 
 Schwarzschildhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Schwarzschild found
 the Schwarzschild metrichttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_metric as
 a solution for a point mass without electric charge and angular momentum.

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 6:02 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 
  Conductivity inversion effects in a metal wire/lattice. It is well
  understood that a singularity carries charge, angular momentum and
 radius
  like any other particle. It is also understood that when they evaporate
 they
  emit charged particles. This can have a direct effect on the
 conductivity of
  a metal.

 ah... so you are hypothesizing a particle with a set of special
 properties.
 Sometimes you refer to this particle by the name 'singularity' and
 other times you refer to it by the name 'gremlin'.

 Harry




 harry

Re: [Vo]:Celani device update

works for me

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Andre Blum andre_vor...@blums.nl wrote:

  It would explain why at NI-week he saw more output than at ICCF: 5000
 people make more vibrations than 300.


 On 08/15/2012 01:33 PM, Chemical Engineer wrote:

 Jed,

  What if you make some loud noise around it or shake it?(he probably does
 not want you to shake it)  Does the energy output increase?...I am serious.
  The singularities he created in those voids should be sensitive to any
 type of external EMR or stimulation

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Akira Shirakawa 
 shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 2012-08-15 18:24, Daniel Rocha wrote:

 In the paper, he said he is limited by the use of the kind glass of
 glass, used for observation, which is fragile beginning at 275C. The
 next step, is to use quartz, which can support higher temperatures.


  If peak temperatures are an issue, it could be an idea to decrease input
 power when using more than an active wire in this reactor type. For trade
 shows and the like, this would still lead to a useful (although dumb)
 increase of the COP.

 But I guess Francesco Celani will probably want to increase / improve
 other control parameters first. Using higher temperatures to try reaching a
 self-sustaining operation threshold (as he hopes in his latest
 presentation) might be something that quartz glass could enable.

 Cheers,
 S.A.

Re: [Vo]:LENR and Fermi Acceleration

I agree that you do have particles constrained thermodynamically and
spatially within the void(s) cracks of the lattice. Why a proton causes
the lattice energy to be uncertain escapes me but might be true. I can
understand how some collapsed matter would keep things uncertain since
it is always struggling to achieve spatial and thermodynamic equilibrium
with its environment and can instantly become unstable if any matter or
energy is transferred to/from it.

Overall I think it is a good theory worth investigating.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:54 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote:

Brillouin's ICCF-17 paper [1] states:

Brillouin's lattice stimulation reverses the natural decay of neutrons to
protons and Beta particles, catalyzing this endothermic step. Constraining
a proton spatially in a lattice causes the lattice energy to be highly
uncertain. With the Hamiltonian of the system reaching 782KeV for a proton
or 3MeV for a deuteron the system may be capable of capturing an electron,
forming an ultra-cold neutron or di-neutron system.

Using Q pulses tuned to the resonance of palladium and nickel hydrides
in pressurized vessels they induce electron capture with protons and
deuterons. Their patent [2] allows for both electomagnetic or sonic
pulses.

From the excerpt of their paper -
Constraining a proton spatially in a lattice causes the lattice energy to
be highly uncertain. With the Hamiltonian of the system reaching 782KeV for
a proton or 3MeV for a deuteron the system may be capable of capturing an
electron
- it seems like they may be employing Fermi acceleration [3] in which a
particle trapped in a time-varying potential acquires large energy.
Spatially localizing a quantum particle requires addition of energy.

Possibly, as soon as the electron wave function acquires 782 keV
components, proton electron-capture occurs resulting in a cold neutron.

Fermi acceleration has been proposed before [4]. Perhaps the Energetics
Technology results shown on CBS 60 Minutes involving ultrasonic
stimulation may also involve Fermi acceleration.

If so, the effectiveness of the stimulus could be quite sensitive to
waveform shape and frequency.

I would be interested in any feedback.

-- Lou Pagnucco

[1] Controlled Electron Capture and the Path Toward Commercialization

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/conferences/2012/ICCF17/ICCF-17-Godes-Controlled-Electron-Capture-Paper.pdf

[2] U.S. Patent Application - Pub. No. US 2011/1022984 A1 - May 26, 2011
ENERGY GENERATION APPARATUS AND METHOD
http://on-the-rag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/US20110122984.pdf

ITEM [0019]: In some embodiments of the present invention, the
reaction may be initiated using current as the phonon initiator
mechanism. In other embodiments of the present invention, acoustic
energy such as sonic or ultrasonic energy can be used...

ITEM [0005]: ...a small amount of phonon energy initiates a nuclear
reaction. Unfortunately, the first reaction creates additional phonons
that cause a chain reaction that leads to the destruction of the lattice

[3] Fermi Acceleration

http://statphys.skku.ac.kr/~bjkim/Teaching/ComPhys10/Labs/Fermi/Fermi.pdf
Exponential energy growth in a Fermi accelerator
http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/~vered/publistorder/R34_PRE10.pdf

[4] Ferroelectrics for Cold Fusion
EPRI Proceedings: 4th Int'l Conf. on Cold Fusion, Vol. 4, p.30-1
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/EPRIproceedingc.pdf
Catalytically Induced D-D Fusion in Ferroelectrics

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttextpid=S0103-97331997000400014

Re: [Vo]:LENR and Fermi Acceleration

I also am not sure why a hot neutron might not be created as opposed to a
Cold Neutron from this. If there were some type of collapsed matter
triggering the event I can understand loss of momentum to all radiation
escaping due to the extra quantum gravitational pull to be overcome.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:54 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote:

Brillouin's ICCF-17 paper [1] states:

Possibly, as soon as the electron wave function acquires 782 keV
components, proton electron-capture occurs resulting in a cold neutron.

Fermi acceleration has been proposed before [4]. Perhaps the Energetics
Technology results shown on CBS 60 Minutes involving ultrasonic
stimulation may also involve Fermi acceleration.

If so, the effectiveness of the stimulus could be quite sensitive to
waveform shape and frequency.

I would be interested in any feedback.

-- Lou Pagnucco

[1] Controlled Electron Capture and the Path Toward Commercialization

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/conferences/2012/ICCF17/ICCF-17-Godes-Controlled-Electron-Capture-Paper.pdf

[2] U.S. Patent Application - Pub. No. US 2011/1022984 A1 - May 26, 2011
ENERGY GENERATION APPARATUS AND METHOD
http://on-the-rag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/US20110122984.pdf

[3] Fermi Acceleration

http://statphys.skku.ac.kr/~bjkim/Teaching/ComPhys10/Labs/Fermi/Fermi.pdf
Exponential energy growth in a Fermi accelerator
http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/~vered/publistorder/R34_PRE10.pdf

[4] Ferroelectrics for Cold Fusion
EPRI Proceedings: 4th Int'l Conf. on Cold Fusion, Vol. 4, p.30-1
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/EPRIproceedingc.pdf
Catalytically Induced D-D Fusion in Ferroelectrics

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttextpid=S0103-97331997000400014

[Vo]:Re: ProdEngAssemble.avi

At 2:30 of this video they mention aligning the holes shown machined on the
outside of each cylinder to the top for access to the coils for wiring,
etc.  I believe they mount  a circuit board for each cylinder atop/near
each hole to  access the coils to supply control power.

They do not show the coils inside and i am not sure how they seal it all
up.  Another video shows the compression coil directly around the target
spot of the plugs.  A containment coil is supposedly around the rest of the
piston.


 ProdEngAssemble.avihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqFgM8osjLEfeature=youtube_gdata_player


 Sent from my iPad

[Vo]:Introducing Gremlin's Non-Identical Twin Brother - Chameleon

In my last post I explained why the radiation from Anomolous Heat  is
very weak.  For those of you who missed it, it is because in order for
radiation to first escape the quantum gravity of the gremlin's (collapsed
matter) surface horizon, most of the radiation's energy is used up in
escaping the pull of gravity since its velocity stays the same.  This is
very fortunate for all of us in nature.  This explains the low energy
levels of radiation coming from all the cold fusion devices.  Once in
awhile, if the gremlin quickly swallows an entire molecule and is thrown
out of thermal equilibrium, he may intermittently belch higher levels of
radiation.

I also mentioned how a gremlin can actually cool his environment in the
short term by taking in more energy than is evaporated.  In the end, the
laws of thermodynamics are preserved at the point the gremlin evaporates he
will have liberated all of his matter and energy he has taken in.

In this post, I will introduce gremlin's non-identical twin brother, who I
call chameleon.  A gremlin who has achieved equilibrium with his
environment becomes a chameleon and loves to just hang out.  Chameleons are
very good at hiding within their environment, they have at least two things
going for them.  The first is that they, like their brother consume photons
so they are hard to see.  The second thing chameleons can do is mimic any
charged particle.  Conceivably they could even take the place of an
electron or proton in a lattice and just hang out.  One way to find out
if you have a chameleon hiding in your lattice is to provide the lattice
with some heat/energy.  If there is a chameleon hiding in your lattice he
will be enticed to consume some of that energy and may reward you with some
additional energy back over and above what you put in.  He may do this at
the expense slowly degrading your lattice because as he consumes your
energy, he grows a little bit bigger and might consume a neighbor in the
lattice before shrinking back.  This will show up as embrittlement within
the lattice over time.  I believe Celini's experiment shows this effect.

Chameleons are calm and gremlins mostly cause trouble.  Papp raised a bunch
of angry gremlins, he gave birth to them in this cold, noble gas chamber
and isolated them with his coil from the outside world and then starved
them to death.  As they died an instantaneous death, they converted all of
that initial collapsed Helium matter to radiation energy with the potential
of driving those piston engines to ungodly energy levels.  On the flipside,
DGT's gremlins were born in the lattice of a matter-rich environment and
are busing gorging themselves, transmuting particles, converting to
chameleons and generally having a chaotic party.

Care for your gremlins and chameleons very carefully.

Re: [Vo]:Re: ProdEngAssemble.avi

Unless they back out of the PowerGEN conference in December, they should
have a running system on display along with other OEMS using their engine.
 I am not ready to give them $50K

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Kelley Trezise ktrez2...@ssvecnet.comwrote:

 **
 Until I see an energy balance on the engine or they run this in a closed
 loop, generating the power for the spark and such, and produce a
 significant amount of work out over a significant amount of time they have
 nothing. Don't buy a thing until you have proof that it works.

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:18 AM
 *Subject:* [Vo]:Re: ProdEngAssemble.avi

 At 2:30 of this video they mention aligning the holes shown machined on
 the outside of each cylinder to the top for access to the coils for wiring,
 etc.  I believe they mount  a circuit board for each cylinder atop/near
 each hole to  access the coils to supply control power.

 They do not show the coils inside and i am not sure how they seal it all
 up.  Another video shows the compression coil directly around the target
 spot of the plugs.  A containment coil is supposedly around the rest of the
 piston.


 ProdEngAssemble.avihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqFgM8osjLEfeature=youtube_gdata_player


 Sent from my iPad

Re: [Vo]:Re: ProdEngAssemble.avi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF7HVi5OVIc

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:26 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

It is too bad that they did not show placement of the coils in this
video. One thing to notice is that the cylinders are made of aluminum
which will allow the steady state magnetic fields due to DC through the
coils free access to the interior. The highly conductive cylinder walls
would behave as a low pass filter that should prevent any high frequency
coupling between the ions inside it and the coil outside. Every
demonstration that I have seen suggests that the power pulse occurs very
quickly. If this is indeed the situation then for all intents and purposes
the magnetic field due to the coil is constant for this period.

Do you know of any videos that clearly show the coil placement for this
type of engine?

Dave
-Original Message-
From: Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 6:25 am
Subject: [Vo]:Re: ProdEngAssemble.avi

At 2:30 of this video they mention aligning the holes shown machined on
the outside of each cylinder to the top for access to the coils for wiring,
etc. I believe they mount a circuit board for each cylinder atop/near
each hole to access the coils to supply control power.

They do not show the coils inside and i am not sure how they seal it all
up. Another video shows the compression coil directly around the target
spot of the plugs. A containment coil is supposedly around the rest of the
piston.

ProdEngAssemble.avihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqFgM8osjLEfeature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my iPad

Re: [Vo]:Re: ProdEngAssemble.avi

The reason the balloon gets sucked in and the reason the coil gets hot is:

The unit has created gremlins (collapsed matter). Over time, the gremlins
are collapsing additional matter available in the vicinity until they have
finally collapsed all the matter available. The coil is available to take
charged particles away. Unfortunately, he may also be getting bombarded
with quarks, gluons and other quantum goo that he is not even aware of...

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF7HVi5OVIc

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:26 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.comwrote:

Do you know of any videos that clearly show the coil placement for this
type of engine?

Dave
-Original Message-
From: Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 6:25 am
Subject: [Vo]:Re: ProdEngAssemble.avi

They do not show the coils inside and i am not sure how they seal it
all up. Another video shows the compression coil directly around the
target spot of the plugs. A containment coil is supposedly around the rest
of the piston.

ProdEngAssemble.avihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqFgM8osjLEfeature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my iPad

Re: [Vo]:Inspiration

If the Papp engine really works, it shows us that collapsed Helium ions
work just as well as Collapsed Hydrogen ions...

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:

 At 01:56 PM 8/13/2012, Bastiaan Bergman wrote:

 http://physics.aps.org/**articles/v5/90http://physics.aps.org/articles/v5/90
 [...]

 What is not known, and remains under considerable debate even now, is
 how the energy stored in the magnetic fields is converted into heating
 the corona 

 Lesson:
 We have no freeking clue how fusion works


 Well, how hot fusion works is pretty well known. The corona is plasma. If
 I'm correct, it's not hot enough to result in much fusion. The problem here
 isn't a lack of understanding of fusion.

 Now, Mills has a theory about the corona. That's another matter and
 doesn't relate to fusion, not there, anyway. In condensed matter, hydrinos,
 if they exist, might catalyze fusion better than electrons can. Very close
 hydrinos would almost certainly catalyze fusion.

Re: [Vo]:LENR - MRI versus NMR- Peter Gluck=OKK

I prefer Quantum Singularity Reactor...

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:

 As someone suggested, quantum reactor or quantum fusion reactor
 would work better.

 T

Re: [Vo]:Recombination

Axil,

DGT has claimed no less than 10-11 elements created that would typically be
created from fission or fusion.

My theory is that the collapsed matter(gremlin) is indiscriminate, it can
rip protons and/or electrons from nearby atoms due to the immense local
quantum gravity and evaporate them back out  Again, the typical radiation
energy levels normally given off by a true fission or fusion process is
reduced by having to overcome the immense localized gravity of the
singularity.

I believe the energy particles need to be removed from the Papp engine
using the coil so that the singularities do not reach thermodynamic
equilibrium and reduced net power output.  I believe once created, the
gremlin sits within the voids and cracks in the loaded Celini and DGT
lattices in thermal equilibrium until you feed them some more energy by
rattling the lattice or pumping it with electrical charge.

You need to keep the gremlins cold and hungry if you want to produce power
(Papp) and feed them alot of nearby matter if you want to transmute
elements (DGT)

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 Recombination





 What John Rohner said in an interview the other day complicates the
 nuclear reactions going on in LENR.



 John said that the original Papp engine produced boron as an ash product
 and as a consequence, demonstrated relatively poor reaction efficiency.



 Because of his efforts to optimize the reaction in his engine, he gets far
 better efficiency than Papp did: more than two times better. John said that
 like Papp, the Helium in his noble gas mix was fusing in his engine, but an
 inverse fission process is clearing the boron ash back to helium so that
 only energy is produced. If this complicated nuclear cycle is in fact
 occurring, it will be very hard to characterize the nuclear processes at
 work in these LENR reactors.







 Cheers:Axil

Re: [Vo]:LENR - MRI versus NMR- Peter Gluck=OKK

Peter,

I do not believe at this time there is any chance of collapse of a
significant amount of matter from one of these things. Unless you give
birth to an enormously large gremlin to begin with, they like to reach
thermal equilibrium with their surroundings extremely quickly.

There is however alot of energy claimed to be generated in the Papp Engine
and much more available from what I see.  1500 Hp (1.1 MW) in a 360 cc
engine limited to 2500 cycles/min using 8, 40 kV spark plugs is alot of
energy from a rev limited engine.

Imagine if you rev it to 8000 RPM...

This is a relatively clean source of energy as long as you have the
gremlins (collapsed matter) available nearby to suck the energy from the
radiation as it leaves.  A coil is a good idea also to remove charged
particles created from gremlin belching.  My understanding is that they
emit charged particles.

IF DGT wants to create a heater/power generation device I believe they
should drop the nanopowder and look at the Papp Engine.
If they stick with Nanopowder they should focus on transmutations, which is
primarily what they are getting since that is what they are feeding their
gremlins.











On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:

 singularity is frightening
 peter


 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 I prefer Quantum Singularity Reactor...

 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.comwrote:

 As someone suggested, quantum reactor or quantum fusion reactor
 would work better.

 T





 --
 Dr. Peter Gluck
 Cluj, Romania
 http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

I think in the Papp you are trading Helium ions for energy at the rate of
e=mc2.  Not a bad trade, i just hope the cost of balloons does not go up.

On Tuesday, August 14, 2012, wrote:

 In reply to  David Roberson's message of Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:50:22 -0400
 (EDT):
 Hi,
 [snip]
 There is a phenomena that is not too well known that most likely allows
 this possibility to exist.  I first ran into this effect years ago when
 designing and modeling an EAS system.  The system worked with a small
 linear magnetic strip of material that relied upon magnetostriction for
 detection.  I was analyzing the magnetic field originating from a tuned
 coil that surrounded the tiny tag to determine energy flow and coupling.
  My model told me that the magnetic field from the coil itself was roughly
 Q times as large as the small source tag supplying the energy for the coil.
  This seems to be heresy for obvious reasons and I shared my results with
 all of the scientists and engineers in the group.  Everyone assumed that
 this was not possible until I was able to model that the phase of the coil
 induced field was at approximately right angles to that of the tag.  I will
 leave the details for anyone interested to work out as an exercise.  There
 were a couple of guys with PhD's in physics
 among the group and I had to do some difficult explaining.
 
 So, in the case at hand I can visualize how a relatively large, high Q,
 electro magnetically coupled, tuned  inductor can interact with a current
 of ions.  The inductive field dominates the ion movement by virtue of its
 overwhelming magnitude.  This field causes the ions to follow the magnetic
 lines of force that are of an axial nature.  The ions travel in a helical
 path that becomes synchronized to the oscillation frequency of the inductor
 since the Q of that network continues to supply energy during periods of
 time when the ions are passive.  At some point in time and  inductor
 generated magnetic field level, the ion collection is induced to supply a
 burst of energy.  Think of this as being similar to the transition through
 the negative resistance region of a tunnel diode.  It is my opinion that
 the system being observed behaves as a negative resistance oscillator by
 some means.


 If a nuclear reaction is responsible for creating very energetic
 particles, then
 these will in turn create tens to hundreds of thousands of ions as they
 slow
 down in the gas, causing the gas to expand, and also storing electrical
 energy
 in the electron-ion pairs.

 When the electrons recombine with the ions a burst of energy should be
 released,
 which could be in the form of an EM pulse that interacts with the coil.
 This is
 also what Paul Brown was claiming (reinvention of the Alfred Hubbard
 device see
 http://www.rexresearch.com/hubbard/hubbard.htm). See also Paul's patent
 (US4835433).

 Note that in the John Rohner video, he also mentions a burst/pulse of
 energy,
 and says they only want one [per power stroke], so as not to waste energy.
 That
 would appear to confirm this analysis.

 
 All oscillator networks that I am familiar with have some form of
 mechanism that limits the energy excursions.  Fortunately, the coil in this
 case does not burst into flames or have its wire  melt as it is driven by
 the energy generation process.   I suspect that the maximum magnitude of
 the induced magnetic field acts as the damper in this situation.  Perhaps
 the helical motion(rotation frequency) of the ions becomes modified and
 thus the coupling between the ions and inductor is reduced at the inductor
 resonant frequency.  It is too early to identify these parameters at this
 time.   We need to harness this interaction and utilize the free energy
 that results.

 I don't think it's quite free, but I think you have probably correctly
 identified the mechanism.
 [snip]
 Regards,

 Robin van Spaandonk

 http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Re: ProdEngAssemble.avi

Axil,

I believe you are correct.  My understanding is that there are two coils in
each cylinder, one for compression and one for containment.  I believe the
compression coil is located exactly around the focal point of the spark
plug electrodes so that it concentrates ions at the focal point for
blasting with 160 kV per cycle from the four plugs.  That blast, along with
the ionization charge already carried by the ions as well as kinetic energy
of the ions due to their speed as well as the hoop pressure and excitement
of the compression coil containment, etc.  seems to be enough to initiate
the birth of gremlins and collapse the ions.  I guess if you add all of
these charges up and multiple by the number of ions in that focal point and
you might get to the magic 1 TeV +/- predicted at the CERN LHC.


On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 John Rohner uses magnetic confinement to keep the noble gas located
 axially at the center of the cylinder. This might keep the gases away from
 the edge of the piston.



 What this might mean is that the gas is well contained while the engine is
 running. The coil provides a cylinder within the cylinder.  But while the
 engine is off, the gas may find a path around the rings and may need a
 recharge.


 This means that the engine must run continually. Rohner does not seem to
 be much concerned about the rings. He said he will replace the two ring
 system with a single ring in the final product.


 Cheers:   Axil












 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Michael Foster mf...@yahoo.com wrote:


 I really want to believe these guys are for real in their revival of the
 Papp engine. If it works, it's
 certainly more compelling than getting heat from LENR.  One thing bothers
 me in watching the
 video of the engine assembly. The piston rings are rubber O-rings.
 There's no way in hell that
 the helium in the noble gas mixture will stay in the cylinder for an
 appreciable length of time.
 Helium is notoriously fugitive and will escape from virtuall any
 container not made of solid glass
 or metal. O-rings just aren't going to work in their engine unless the
 noble gas mixture can be
 replenished frequently.
 -q
 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 3:18 AM PDT Chemical Engineer wrote:

 At 2:30 of this video they mention aligning the holes shown machined on
 the
 outside of each cylinder to the top for access to the coils for wiring,
 etc.  I believe they mount  a circuit board for each cylinder atop/near
 each hole to  access the coils to supply control power.
 
 They do not show the coils inside and i am not sure how they seal it all
 up.  Another video shows the compression coil directly around the target
 spot of the plugs.  A containment coil is supposedly around the rest of
 the
 piston.
 
 
  ProdEngAssemble.avi
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqFgM8osjLEfeature=youtube_gdata_player
 
 
  Sent from my iPad

Re: [Vo]:Fwd: Celani ICCF17 Presentation

Jed,

Based upon Celani's paper at the following step:

After adding a H2/Ar mixture (75/25 ratio) at 7 bar of
total pressure, and using as monitor parameter the
resistance of both the active and inert wires, it was given
power (48W) to the inert wire. It was found that when the
temperature inside the reactor was larger than 125°C, the
resistance ratio of active wire, after a very limited
increase (to 1.02), dropped to 0.92 in 2500s. Later on, in
about 10 sec, the R/Ro decreased to 0.88. We
observed a correlated increase of the “anomalous excess
heat” (although quite unstable) with the R/Ro
decreasing. The temperature inside cell was about 180°C.

I believe this is the point above at which some of the H+ matter in the
voids collapses due to the concentrated charges arcing across the voids,
the hoop effect of the void compression, the ionic and kinetic energies all
aiding in its collapse.  After that the first effect would be the collapsed
matter immediately trying to reach a new state of thermal equilibrium
within its new environment and releasing low level radiation reduced in
energy due to its quantum gravity effects.  Sort of like when a new baby is
born and immediately starts crying until he becomes comfortable in his new
surroundings.  This new gremlin should at some point settle back down to
thermal equilibrium after it has disrupted all of its neighbors in the
lattice and possibly transmuted a few and belched some quantum goo.  From
this point on the singularity has now become a chameleon and should remain
stable in the lattice (even on a plane ride to Austin) until he is once
again excited.  I am surprised pressure changes on the airplane did not
flush a few out.


On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:

 From Jed.

 T


 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
 Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 8:45 PM
 Subject: Re: Celani ICCF17 Presentation
 To: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com


 Paper is here:

 http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/CelaniFcunimnallo.pdf

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Re: ProdEngAssemble.avi

Up until now they have spent $9B looking for the Higgs Boson...

I referenced in my summary the 2012 studies below which estimated they
should show up around 1 TeV, depending upon how strong you think quantum
gravity is and how many dimensions of spacetime and the effect of
gravitons.  How strong do you think it is?

http://arxiv.org/abs/1201.3208
http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.4683

I don't believe they have found any rydberg matter yet either but I may be
wrong about that...


On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 You’re hoped for gremlins have not been seen in CERN’s LHC, any problem
 with the gremlin theory is they do not exist?


 Cheers:Axil


 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 Axil,

 I believe you are correct.  My understanding is that there are two coils
 in each cylinder, one for compression and one for containment.  I believe
 the compression coil is located exactly around the focal point of the spark
 plug electrodes so that it concentrates ions at the focal point for
 blasting with 160 kV per cycle from the four plugs.  That blast, along with
 the ionization charge already carried by the ions as well as kinetic energy
 of the ions due to their speed as well as the hoop pressure and excitement
 of the compression coil containment, etc.  seems to be enough to initiate
 the birth of gremlins and collapse the ions.  I guess if you add all of
 these charges up and multiple by the number of ions in that focal point and
 you might get to the magic 1 TeV +/- predicted at the CERN LHC.


 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  John Rohner uses magnetic confinement to keep the noble gas located
 axially at the center of the cylinder. This might keep the gases away from
 the edge of the piston.



 What this might mean is that the gas is well contained while the engine
 is running. The coil provides a cylinder within the cylinder.  But
 while the engine is off, the gas may find a path around the rings and may
 need a recharge.


 This means that the engine must run continually. Rohner does not seem to
 be much concerned about the rings. He said he will replace the two ring
 system with a single ring in the final product.


 Cheers:   Axil












 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Michael Foster mf...@yahoo.com wrote:


 I really want to believe these guys are for real in their revival of
 the Papp engine. If it works, it's
 certainly more compelling than getting heat from LENR.  One thing
 bothers me in watching the
 video of the engine assembly. The piston rings are rubber O-rings.
 There's no way in hell that
 the helium in the noble gas mixture will stay in the cylinder for an
 appreciable length of time.
 Helium is notoriously fugitive and will escape from virtuall any
 container not made of solid glass
 or metal. O-rings just aren't going to work in their engine unless the
 noble gas mixture can be
 replenished frequently.
 -q
 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 3:18 AM PDT Chemical Engineer wrote:

 At 2:30 of this video they mention aligning the holes shown machined
 on the
 outside of each cylinder to the top for access to the coils for wiring,
 etc.  I believe they mount  a circuit board for each cylinder atop/near
 each hole to  access the coils to supply control power.
 
 They do not show the coils inside and i am not sure how they seal it
 all
 up.  Another video shows the compression coil directly around the
 target
 spot of the plugs.  A containment coil is supposedly around the rest
 of the
 piston.
 
 
  ProdEngAssemble.avi
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqFgM8osjLEfeature=youtube_gdata_player
 
 
 
  Sent from my iPad

Re: [Vo]:Fwd: Celani ICCF17 Presentation

OK, thanks

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com wrote:


 I am surprised pressure changes on the airplane did not flush a few out.


 It was recharged with fresh gas at a KAIST laboratory before being brought
 to the convention center. There is no gas canister here. It is sealed, but
 leaking gradually.

 The gas pressure graph is shown on the bottom right.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Fwd: Celani ICCF17 Presentation

I wonder if they got the Rohner brothers to recharge it?:)

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 OK, thanks


 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:

 Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com wrote:


 I am surprised pressure changes on the airplane did not flush a few out.


 It was recharged with fresh gas at a KAIST laboratory before being
 brought to the convention center. There is no gas canister here. It is
 sealed, but leaking gradually.

 The gas pressure graph is shown on the bottom right.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:The faint young Sun paradox

Just a bunch of collapsed microsingularities emitting hawking radiation
around the sun collapsed due to the intense gravity and flux.  The smaller
they are the hotter they get.  The smallest might get up to... 5.6×1032 K vs
a monster black hole in the emptiest part of space which is somewhat cooler
~ 3 K I think since it is attempting to be in equilibrium with cosmic
background radiation

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 10:05 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

 Harry,

 I have not followed Mills' cosmological arguments for years and they may
 have changed. IIRC he thinks 100% of the UV and EUV (which is the main
 emission spectrum for f/H) and something like 40% of the net thermal energy
 received on earth comes from the Corona. That instantly solves the neutrino
 problem elegantly. There was in fact no faint young Sun so the only
 adjustment there, needed to the correct the old model is that the ratio of
 thermal output from Corona-to-Core may have varied.

 Therefore, if Mills is correct, then the answer to your question is yes -
 without this additional energy from the Corona, we would freeze over.

 It is possible that the ash from deep shrinkage (Deep Dirac Level ??) is
 synonymous with dark matter as Terry pointed out the other day. In which
 case, every Sun probably has a Corona which is continually producing dark
 matter over time.


 -Original Message-
 From: Harry Veeder

 Jones Beene wrote:
  A more sensible solution is that was NO faint young sun to begin with.

 I was waiting for someone to suggest this possibility.

  The same flawed model of solar mechanics that gives us the solar neutrino
  problem also gives us the faint young sun problem. They invented a straw
 man
  that never was much more than fiction, and now they are trying to keep
  it in play with an even more insane rationalization.

 I am not sure how Mill's hydrino would resolve the faint young sun paradox.
 Are you saying the corona is a significant source of radiant energy
 which is overlooked in coventional solar models, such
 that the Earth would freeze over without the Sun's corona ?

 harry

Re: [Vo]:Brillouin ICCF17 Presentation

I think that is their wet boiler?

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

 Whoa. 130 bar  light water electrolysis instead of gas phase!


 -Original Message-
 From: Terry Blanton

 Jed just informed me that it's okay to open this one:


 https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SOA7Z4aIGnT_HrshnzNF6vTsgj4PULTBceDy
 UINIZG8/edit


 My wife kept me up long enough talking about LENR that we got the okay
 from Frank.  She's never been this excited about my hobby.

 :-)

 T

[Vo]:Grand Unification Theory of Cold Fusion

I know you guys are sick of hearing about it, but here is a link to
revision 4 of my theory, with a list of recent observations and how this
theory explains them.

http://wp.me/p26aeb-4

Basically the Ghostbusters had it right, if you cross the streams and
generate enough charge you may vaporize gremlins and they will spit quantum
goo.

Enjoy.

Re: [Vo]:Inspiration

Correct, I can only go on what I am told.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:47 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:

 In reply to  Chemical Engineer's message of Tue, 14 Aug 2012 14:41:17
 -0400:
 Hi,
 If the Papp engine really works, it shows us that collapsed Helium ions
 work just as well as Collapsed Hydrogen ions...
 [snip]

 ...assuming there is no Hydrogen (in whatever form) in the Papp engine.
 Regards,

 Robin van Spaandonk

 http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Inspiration

agreed, my theory can collapse any matter albeit some requiring more energy
than others

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:57 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:

 In reply to  Chemical Engineer's message of Tue, 14 Aug 2012 23:48:29
 -0400:
 Hi,
 [snip]
 Correct, I can only go on what I am told.

 Note that any such H may not be in an obvious form, e.g. lubricating oil,
 plastic, water vapour in the gasses.

 
 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:47 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
 
  In reply to  Chemical Engineer's message of Tue, 14 Aug 2012 14:41:17
  -0400:
  Hi,
  If the Papp engine really works, it shows us that collapsed Helium ions
  work just as well as Collapsed Hydrogen ions...
  [snip]
 
  ...assuming there is no Hydrogen (in whatever form) in the Papp engine.
  Regards,
 
  Robin van Spaandonk
 
  http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
 
 
 Regards,

 Robin van Spaandonk

 http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:1200 degrees E-cat operating at 1 bar?

Yes, i believe it is operating at atmospheric pressure like the Papp
engine.  The molecules in the air are being ionized, confined, ignited and
are reacting,  imparting heat to the inside walls of the tube.

On Monday, August 13, 2012, Teslaalset wrote:

 Group,
 Recent posted foto that seems to represent a test Rossi test unit
 generating 1200 degrees C heat, made me wonder:
 Is the new unit operating at 1 Bar gas pressure? It seems to be an open
 setup to me.
 Past explanation by Rossi gave me the impression the E-cat works at quite
 higher gas pressures.
 Is it just me than is puzzled about this observation?

Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device. ALL by same Nuclear process ??

Jed,

If the Papp engine and latest Rossi device shown do indeed work, it causes
me to believe that the metal takes part in the reaction only when it comes
into contact with the gremlin or lightning ball dancincing in the voids
 cracks.  The metal is useful only if you want to create some
transmutation by-products, otherwise throw away your nanopowder or metal
rod.

On Monday, August 13, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'a...@lomaxdesign.com'); wrote:


 The nickel-hydrogen claims are exciting, but, so far, not adequately
 demonstrated or independently verified.


 Based on today's presentations at ICCF17, I would say that Brillouin has
 done excellent calorimetry. The best of any Ni-H claim I know of. Piantelli
 was not bad but this is better. The reaction is large enough that a
 calorimetric error is extremely unlikely, with anomalous heat such as 40 W
 and 100 W. A very stable, controllable reaction.

 The only thing they are missing is the independently verified part. They
 are now setting up experiments at SRI that will be completely independent.
 They have already begun operating the equipment. I think it is very likely
 SRI will confirm this within a few months, and that will be the last hurdle
 for this claim. I think when that happens we will be able to say that Ni-H
 has as much credibility as Pd-D has, albeit many fewer replications.

 It is unfortunate that Piantelli is clamming up, but in the past he has
 not shared information much, and he is now obligated to people providing
 venture capital.

 Ni-H has been *very, very* difficult to confirm. It has been marginal for
 years, with enough credibility that it had to be taken seriously, yet it
 seemed even more uncontrollable than Pd, and in most cases with extremely
 low power density. It was always tantalizing yet somehow out of reach. Some
 people, such as Krivit, have the notion that there was some kind of
 organized opposition to Ni by mainstream researchers. That is absurd. For
 as long as I have been following this field, people such as McKubre and
 Fleischmann have been yearning to make Ni or Ti work, for the obvious
 reason that they are cheap and abundant compared to Pd. The idea that light
 water might work was puzzling, to such an extent that I left it out of my
 book so as not to confuse the readers. (It isn't a textbook after all.) But
 most cold fusion researchers I know shrugged their shoulders and said,
 well, if it works, it works. That was my attitude all along, after I saw
 positive Mills results at MIT.


 By the way, Hagelstein explained Swartz's experiments today. They are
 impressive. It is a shame Schwart himself cannot explain them in a way that
 most people understand. Hagelstein may be a theorists but he knows how to
 explain data and graphs as well as any engineer does. That is high praise
 coming from me.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

Mark,

A singularity(collapsed matter), what I call my gremlin, can pass right
through other matter, as in a window.  As a singularity comes into contact
with other matter/energy it cools off and expands and is happy momentarily.
 If it cannot grab enough matter/energy to continue expanding/cooling, it
gets angry, collapses, gives off energy as it evaporates and then POP and
it is gone.  The gremlin is not a picky eater, it will rip/consume whatever
matter you feed it and belch quantum goo.

The largest gremlins(black holes) in the universe are in the coldest
places.  Do not feed your baby gremlins too much or they will get very
large quickly and swallow you.  They are like Otto in that pool of water.
 Care for your baby gremlins very carefully and do not feed them too much
or they will grow up suddenly.

That Papp engine is scary powerful if you step on the accelerator.

On Monday, August 13, 2012, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

 The Corum brothers did considerable research on ball-lightning:

 http://www.teslasociety.com/corum.htm

 ** **

 It can indeed ‘go thru’ glass, however, it never really touches the glass…
 I have a video from Dr. Corum about their experiments with ball lightning.
 Although, theirs may be somewhat different since it originates from RF (a
 tesla coil) whereas ball lightning from atmospheric electricity is very
 likely DC or VLF.   

 ** **

 From the Corum’s research, they identified 3 things required to generate
 BL:  very high voltage potentials, carbon particles, and ozone (which is a
 given with electrical discharges going on).  What the video showed is that
 as the ball approaches the glass, and then just before it contacts the
 glass, it begins shrinking, while simultaneously appearing and growing on
 the opposite side of the glass.  This all happens so fast that it appears
 to go thru the glass; the vid has it in slo-mo so it’s easy to see…

 ** **

 -Mark

 ** **

 *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'janap...@gmail.com');]
 *Sent:* Sunday, August 12, 2012 6:38 PM
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'vortex-l@eskimo.com');
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:the Coil

 ** **

 Reference in support of ball lightning  passing through glass and
 attracted to conductors.

  

 http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_06_3_grivorev.pdf

  

 Presented in Table 1 are statistical data on the disappearance of BL in *746
 *cases in which the BL origin was on conductors. We mention in conclusion
 that, according to cited descriptions of BL and the statistical data, BL
 may simultaneously possess two exotic properties to which the present paper
 is devoted: to originate on a conductor (or to be absorbed by a conductor),
 and to penetrate through glass without affecting it (see descriptions 6, 9,
 16, 34).

  

 Reference for ball lightning as Rydberg matter.

  


 http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2003/sep/23/new-look-for-ball-lightning
 

  

 An Explanation of the Papp anomaly as follows:. 

  

 When the axial confinement field of the coil is removed, Rydberg matter is
 no longer confined axially to the center of the cylinder. The energetic
 Rydberg matter then is free to pass through the cyclinder walls and is then
 attracted to the conductive copper wire. The electrostatic charge of
 theRydberg matter induces a  electric charge in the copper wire which  in
 turn producing heat.  

  

  

 QED:   Axil

  

 ** **

 On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I'm just sayin...

 ** **

 http://phys.org/news/2011-05-mini-black-holes-atoms-earth.html

 ** **

 I saw ball lightning once in Maine while hunting as a kid.  I was out in a
 field with a powerline going through it. I first heard a loud humming noise
 and could feel the vibration in the air.  I looked up and saw a large ball
 of sparks just hanging in the air sort of pulsing a bit.  It lasted 10-15
 seconds and the just sort of...evaporated.

 ** **

 I found this article below

 ** **

 http://www.goodfelloweb.com/nature/plasma/plasma0004.html

 ** **

 I think Rossi is controlling the gremlin in the tube with flux from the
 coil

 ** **



 On Sunday, August 12, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 I have the answer to why the gas leaves the cylinder and it is not
 teleportation. 

 Ball lightning is Rydberg matter, and ball lightning has been known to
 pass through solid walls.

 If highly excited atoms have no coil to confine them to the center of the
 cylinder, they will pass through the cylinder walls in the same way that
 ball lightning can pass through solid walls.

 Simple, the Papp engine is making ball lightning.

 Cheers:  Axil

 On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Axil Axil

Re: [Vo]:1200 degrees E-cat operating at 1 bar?

Air IS the fuel or source of matter to feed the gremlins

On Monday, August 13, 2012, Andre Blum wrote:

  As far as I understand, but I could be wrong, the hot cat reactor is not
 open at all.

 These are two concentric tubes with their ends somehow closed with some
 kind of appropriate 'putty'.
 So: the part that you are seeing as open is the hole in the donut, but it
 is the hollowness of the donut itself that is the reaction chamber.

 Unclear to me is how they filled that with the gas and at what pressure.
 Then again, Rossi says he uses some metal hydride, not gas per se.

 Andre



 Andre

 On 08/13/2012 04:25 AM, Teslaalset wrote:

 Group,
  Recent posted foto that seems to represent a test Rossi test unit
 generating 1200 degrees C heat, made me wonder:
  Is the new unit operating at 1 Bar gas pressure? It seems to be an open
 setup to me.
 Past explanation by Rossi gave me the impression the E-cat works at quite
 higher gas pressures.
 Is it just me than is puzzled about this observation?

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

I just call it the way I see it.

On Monday, August 13, 2012, Andre Blum wrote:

  Now you hush! Underwriters Laboratories may be reading this.

 Andre



 On 08/13/2012 07:54 AM, Chemical Engineer wrote:

 Mark,

  A singularity(collapsed matter), what I call my gremlin, can pass right
 through other matter, as in a window.  As a singularity comes into contact
 with other matter/energy it cools off and expands and is happy momentarily.
  If it cannot grab enough matter/energy to continue expanding/cooling, it
 gets angry, collapses, gives off energy as it evaporates and then POP and
 it is gone.  The gremlin is not a picky eater, it will rip/consume whatever
 matter you feed it and belch quantum goo.

  The largest gremlins(black holes) in the universe are in the coldest
 places.  Do not feed your baby gremlins too much or they will get very
 large quickly and swallow you.  They are like Otto in that pool of water.
  Care for your baby gremlins very carefully and do not feed them too much
 or they will grow up suddenly.

  That Papp engine is scary powerful if you step on the accelerator.

 On Monday, August 13, 2012, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

  The Corum brothers did considerable research on ball-lightning:

 http://www.teslasociety.com/corum.htm



 It can indeed ‘go thru’ glass, however, it never really touches the glass…
 I have a video from Dr. Corum about their experiments with ball lightning.
 Although, theirs may be somewhat different since it originates from RF (a
 tesla coil) whereas ball lightning from atmospheric electricity is very
 likely DC or VLF.



 From the Corum’s research, they identified 3 things required to generate
 BL:  very high voltage potentials, carbon particles, and ozone (which is a
 given with electrical discharges going on).  What the video showed is that
 as the ball approaches the glass, and then just before it contacts the
 glass, it begins shrinking, while simultaneously appearing and growing on
 the opposite side of the glass.  This all happens so fast that it appears
 to go thru the glass; the vid has it in slo-mo so it’s easy to see…



 -Mark



 *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Sunday, August 12, 2012 6:38 PM
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:the Coil



 Reference in support of ball lightning  passing through glass and
 attracted to conductors.



 http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_06_3_grivorev.pdf

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

Also, as the gremlin expands he cools his surroundings.  Just be careful
when he exhales and  belches copious amounts of quantum energy and goo on
you.

On Monday, August 13, 2012, Chemical Engineer wrote:

 I just call it the way I see it.

 On Monday, August 13, 2012, Andre Blum wrote:

  Now you hush! Underwriters Laboratories may be reading this.

 Andre



 On 08/13/2012 07:54 AM, Chemical Engineer wrote:

 Mark,

  A singularity(collapsed matter), what I call my gremlin, can pass right
 through other matter, as in a window.  As a singularity comes into contact
 with other matter/energy it cools off and expands and is happy momentarily.
  If it cannot grab enough matter/energy to continue expanding/cooling, it
 gets angry, collapses, gives off energy as it evaporates and then POP and
 it is gone.  The gremlin is not a picky eater, it will rip/consume whatever
 matter you feed it and belch quantum goo.

  The largest gremlins(black holes) in the universe are in the coldest
 places.  Do not feed your baby gremlins too much or they will get very
 large quickly and swallow you.  They are like Otto in that pool of water.
  Care for your baby gremlins very carefully and do not feed them too much
 or they will grow up suddenly.

  That Papp engine is scary powerful if you step on the accelerator.

 On Monday, August 13, 2012, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

  The Corum brothers did considerable research on ball-lightning:

 http://www.teslasociety.com/corum.htm



 It can indeed ‘go thru’ glass, however, it never really touches the glass…
 I have a video from Dr. Corum about their experiments with ball lightning.
 Although, theirs may be somewhat different since it originates from RF (a
 tesla coil) whereas ball lightning from atmospheric electricity is very
 likely DC or VLF.



 From the Corum’s research, they identified 3 things required to generate
 BL:  very high voltage potentials, carbon particles, and ozone (which is a
 given with electrical discharges going on).  What the video showed is that
 as the ball approaches the glass, and then just before it contacts the
 glass, it begins shrinking, while simultaneously appearing and growing on
 the opposite side of the glass.  This all happens so fast that it appears
 to go thru the glass; the vid has it in slo-mo so it’s easy to see…



 -Mark



 *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Sunday, August 12, 2012 6:38 PM
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:the Coil



 Reference in support of ball lightning  passing through glass and

Re: [Vo]:1200 degrees E-cat operating at 1 bar?

I think the air is both the cooling fluid and source of fuel.

On Monday, August 13, 2012, David Roberson wrote:

 I think that the hole in the center of the device is open to allow cooling
 fluid to flow through.  This appears to be the hottest region of Rossi's
 reactor.  Notice the bright color seen through the hole.

 Dave
  -Original Message-
 From: Andre Blum andre_vor...@blums.nl javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'andre_vor...@blums.nl');
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'vortex-l@eskimo.com');
 Sent: Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:28 am
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:1200 degrees E-cat operating at 1 bar?

  As far as I understand, but I could be wrong, the hot cat reactor is not
 open at all.

 These are two concentric tubes with their ends somehow closed with some
 kind of appropriate 'putty'.
 So: the part that you are seeing as open is the hole in the donut, but it
 is the hollowness of the donut itself that is the reaction chamber.

 Unclear to me is how they filled that with the gas and at what pressure.
 Then again, Rossi says he uses some metal hydride, not gas per se.

 Andre



 Andre

 On 08/13/2012 04:25 AM, Teslaalset wrote:

 Group,
  Recent posted foto that seems to represent a test Rossi test unit
 generating 1200 degrees C heat, made me wonder:
  Is the new unit operating at 1 Bar gas pressure? It seems to be an open
 setup to me.
 Past explanation by Rossi gave me the impression the E-cat works at quite
 higher gas pressures.
 Is it just me than is puzzled about this observation?

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

The 3rd Sterling video from the tesla tech discussed 2 coils in each
cyclinder, one for compression  one for containment.  Rossi had two sets
of wires leading into his tubular heater...

If you do not use the coils for containment and compression of ions, you
will require much higher voltage for ignition.

On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 Did Bob Papp remove the coil for the demo? Did you see the poper work with
 the coil installed; any differences? Was the pisten movement strong? What
 was the cylinder made of? Other details?

 Axil

 On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 1:46 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Bob Papp told me, last Friday, that the coil is not only not necessary,
 but doesn't significantly assist the function.  He repeatedly fired off a
 cylinder without the coil as a demonstration.

 Part of my motivation to visit was to make sure that the (non-heat
 engine) mechanical force was not simply a plasma pinch driven by the coil.
 Obviously, it wasn't.

 On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 The question:
  Why is the axial confinement coil required in the papp engine. The Papp
 reaction will not work without the coil.
 The answer:
 When the plasma is formed, the coil confines plasma into a very thin
 conductive channel where one dimensional electron flow along the channel
 makes the current superconductive. A electron screening cloud forms
 together with Rydberg matter in the partial plasma. This causes aneutronic
 fusion of three helium atoms into Boron11 and a proton.

 This is consistent with the finding of a brown ash in the Papp engine as
 a nuclear ash.

 Cheers:   Axil

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Another secret sauce.

If it is not fission or fusion then it is Gremlins(collapsed matter)
belching hawking radiation.  They are going to be very hard to witness
since when you focus photons/light on them they devour it...

Expansion should trigger cooling
Evaporation should trigger heat, electrical
charge/conductivity(singularities can carry a charge) and a spectrum of
radiation

All of the above have been witnessed.


On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Roarty, Francis X 
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote:

  Axil,

 Good description except your initial assumption that the
 energy is from fusion remains unfounded.

 Fran

 ** **

 *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Monday, August 13, 2012 1:46 PM
 *To:* vortex-l
 *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Another secret sauce.

 ** **

 How does the energy from fusion produce an increase of electromagnetic
 pressure in the Papp engine?

  

 Xenon is a thermionic material; it converts heat into electric charge. As
 charge ionization goes up, the positively charged clusters repel each other
 and the gas expands. When the clusters evaporate, the charge accumulation
 is neutralized and the  electromagnetic pressure in the cylinder decreases
 until neutral polarity is restored.

  

 Cheers:   Axil

 On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:***
 *

 Another secret sauce.

  

  

 The elements  helium (He), neon (Ne), argon (Ar), krypton (Kr), xenon (Xe)
 produce very large clusters. Xenon is the most vigorous cluster producer.
 Xenon clusters that take the shape of buckminsterfullerene. 

  

 The other noble gases catalyze the production of Xenon clusters. In
 general, the lighter atomic weight noble gases will catalyze cluster
 formation of the heaver weight elements. All the noble gas elements
 catalyze clustering in other member elements in their element family.

  

 Mixed clustering of two or more noble gas element is also possible.

  

 Consistent with Rydberg matter, these clusters demonstrate magic numbers.
 These magic numbers describe clusters with a specific number of atoms that
 in an otherwise smooth intensity mass distribution show up in higher
 abundance than their neighbors. For Xenon clusters the most apparent magic
 numbers show up at cluster sizes of N = 13, 19, 25, 71, 87 and 141 atoms.
 Xenon clusters can grow to exceed 1000 atoms and larger.  

  

 It is possible to control how clusters form in a mixture of noble gases by
 adjusting the proportions of each noble gas in the mix.

  

 When these clusters are excited by lasers or sparks, they developed
 intense positive charge concentrations.

  

 See

  

 http://www.ias.ac.in/resonance/December2009/p1210-1222.pdf 

  

 These clusters are Rydberg matter when they are in a state of excitement.
 When positively charged (Protonated  Clusters), these clusters induce the
 concentration of dense electron clouds that will reduce or eliminate the
 coulomb barriers of the atoms in there zones of influence. 

  

 This Protonated Clustering mechanism is the same one used by LeClair in
 his cavitation base LENR fusion reaction.

  

  

 Cheers:   Axil

  

  

 ** **

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Another secret sauce.

I realize I have the advantage of nobody really knowing how a
microsingularity (gremlin) would react/evaporate at the quantum scale.  My
theory is that quantum gravity allows for even smaller energy level black
holes then expected and we are witnessing those with these systems and ball
lightning.

A couple of hints:

Temperature inversion.  Brian Ahern mentioned temporary temperature
inversion which could be explained when a gremlin is expanding it is
cooling the  powder around it.

Celini also mentioned a conductivity inversion:  A gremlin can carry a
charge.  It will draw in particles of opposite charge and also evaporate
charged particles.  This could be the effect seen.



It is not well established what an evaporating mini black hole would
actually look like in realistic detail. The Hawking radiation itself would
consist of energetic particles, antiparticles, and gamma rays. Such
radiation is invisible to the human eye, so optically the evaporating black
hole might look like a dud. However, it is also possible that the Hawking
radiation, rather than emerging directly, might power a hadronic fireball
that would degrade the radiation into particles and gamma rays of less
extreme energy, possibly making the evaporating black hole visible to the
eye.

Sounds like ball lightning to me.  It is currently estimated that the
smallest mass of a gremlin could be is a Planck
masshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_mass (about
22 micrograms)  I think it may be even smaller if quantum gravity is
stronger than we think

On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 If it is not fission or fusion then it is Gremlins(collapsed matter)
 belching hawking radiation.  They are going to be very hard to witness
 since when you focus photons/light on them they devour it...

 Expansion should trigger cooling
 Evaporation should trigger heat, electrical
 charge/conductivity(singularities can carry a charge) and a spectrum of
 radiation

 All of the above have been witnessed.



 On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Roarty, Francis X 
 francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote:

  Axil,

 Good description except your initial assumption that the
 energy is from fusion remains unfounded.

 Fran

 ** **

 *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Monday, August 13, 2012 1:46 PM
 *To:* vortex-l
 *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Another secret sauce.

 ** **

 How does the energy from fusion produce an increase of electromagnetic
 pressure in the Papp engine?

  

 Xenon is a thermionic material; it converts heat into electric charge. As
 charge ionization goes up, the positively charged clusters repel each other
 and the gas expands. When the clusters evaporate, the charge accumulation
 is neutralized and the  electromagnetic pressure in the cylinder decreases
 until neutral polarity is restored.

  

 Cheers:   Axil

 On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:**
 **

 Another secret sauce.

  

  

 The elements  helium (He), neon (Ne), argon (Ar), krypton (Kr), xenon
 (Xe) produce very large clusters. Xenon is the most vigorous cluster
 producer. Xenon clusters that take the shape of buckminsterfullerene. ***
 *

  

 The other noble gases catalyze the production of Xenon clusters. In
 general, the lighter atomic weight noble gases will catalyze cluster
 formation of the heaver weight elements. All the noble gas elements
 catalyze clustering in other member elements in their element family.

  

 Mixed clustering of two or more noble gas element is also possible.

  

 Consistent with Rydberg matter, these clusters demonstrate magic numbers.
 These magic numbers describe clusters with a specific number of atoms that
 in an otherwise smooth intensity mass distribution show up in higher
 abundance than their neighbors. For Xenon clusters the most apparent magic
 numbers show up at cluster sizes of N = 13, 19, 25, 71, 87 and 141 atoms.
 Xenon clusters can grow to exceed 1000 atoms and larger.  

  

 It is possible to control how clusters form in a mixture of noble gases
 by adjusting the proportions of each noble gas in the mix.

  

 When these clusters are excited by lasers or sparks, they developed
 intense positive charge concentrations.

  

 See

  

 http://www.ias.ac.in/resonance/December2009/p1210-1222.pdf 

  

 These clusters are Rydberg matter when they are in a state of
 excitement.  When positively charged (Protonated  Clusters), these clusters
 induce the concentration of dense electron clouds that will reduce or
 eliminate the coulomb barriers of the atoms in there zones of influence.
 

  

 This Protonated Clustering mechanism is the same one used by LeClair in
 his cavitation base LENR fusion reaction.

  

  

 Cheers:   Axil

  

  

 ** **

Re: [Vo]:Inspiration

In my Grand Unification Theory of Cold Fusion (Gremlins - collapsed
singularities):

A gremlin that has devoured/collapsed Hydrogen ions is nicknamed a Hydrino

A gremlin that has devoured Helium ions is nicknamed a... Helino?

A Helino might belch Hydrinos? or at least something similar.

On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

 The best explanation for the Corona thermal anomaly is still ignored,
 despite the preponderance of evidence. This is because the source of heat
 is
 NOT nuclear and the mainstream demands that it be nuclear.

 The spectrum of the corona is well-known and well studied, and all of the
 hydrino lines are visible according to BLP... many of them are shared with
 hydrogen or helium. However, there are previously unidentified lines in
 astrophysical data going back decades - which matches predicted dihydrino
 molecular rotational transitions to five figures.

 The only alternative explanation for the most important of these lines is a
 rare spectral transition of iron - the Fe ion. This lame explanation
 involving iron was the usual response from the mainstream until it was
 pointed out that there is many orders of magnitude too little iron in the
 corona to account for the magnitude of this line.

 Nevertheless, Mills is ignored. He may not be 100% correct, but to ignore
 him and his evidence is unscientific.


 -Original Message-
 From: Bastiaan Bergman

 http://physics.aps.org/articles/v5/90

 specifically:
 The finding revealed that the solar corona was a few million degrees
 kelvin, more than three hundred times hotter than the surface of the
 sun below, and flew in the face of what was expected from simple
 thermodynamics

 It is now universally accepted that the reservoir of energy stored in
 the sun's atmospheric magnetic field is what heats the localized
 plasma in the corona. In simplified terms, the field is generated in
 the solar interior as a result of large-scale rotational and
 convective motions of the charged plasma, which serve to produce a
 strong (100,000  gauss) magnetic field some 200,000km  below the solar
 surface 

 What is not known, and remains under considerable debate even now, is
 how the energy stored in the magnetic fields is converted into heating
 the corona 

 Lesson:
 We have no freeking clue how fusion works

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Another secret sauce.

Francis,

My vision is a micro-singularity(gremlin) of collapsed matter weighing near
a planck mass, 22 micrograms, roughly the weight of a grain of sand.  You
might envision this angry gremlin floating thu the air/wind following
magnetic fields and emitting sparks as it is evaporating or possibly
calming down and becoming invisible if it takes in some additional matter.
 It might even bounce to the ground and pass right thru the earth... Like
ball lightning.  Inside the voids of DGTs reactor the gremlins feed on Ni,
H2 and other particles in the lattice and voids, they have a wide appetite
for all forms of matter and energy.

On a macro scale, my gremlin exerts very little gravitational pull on the
outside world, however on the quantum scale, due to the assumed extra
dimensions of spacetime at those lengths, my gremlin can tear and collapse
matter and energy from whatever contacts its horizon; things such photons,
ions, protons, lattice atoms, hydrogen, helium, Ni etc can all get gobbled
up or at least torn up a bit.

 I do not envision a white hole.  I do envision the gremlin emitting black
body radiation as it evaporates, which can happen extremely fast at those
sizes.  A convenient attribute of my gremlin's strong gravitational effect
is that in order to escape from its gravity, radiation must expend some
energy, it has to work to get out of the gravitational field of my
gremlin's horizon.  The radiation does not slow down at all—radiation
always moves at the speed of light—it just loses energy. This is why my
gremlin does not emit harmful radiation.  Some of my gremlin's radiation,
made of quarks and gluons most likely does not even register on most
testers equipment.

Gremlins have the ability to combine, so take care of the gremlins, best to
keep them just a little bit hungry/angry so they radiate useful energy but
do not grow so big that they either burn you or heaven forbid grab you and
pull you in.

As for the sun, maybe gremlins are hiding in that corona.  If you don't
believe me at least I hope you like my story.





On Monday, August 13, 2012, Roarty, Francis X wrote:

  Black holes are spatially large gravity wells that slow time,  I think
 your singularity should be called a white hole because it is a  suppression
 of gravity [a hill or warp] that instead  accelerates time.. My posit is a
 relativistic interpretation of Casimir effect where the semantics of
 temperature and spatial displacement [expansion] take on a different
 meaning based on an environment that rapidly varies equivalent inertial
 frames [fractured isotropy] .

 ** **

 *From:* Chemical Engineer [mailto:cheme...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Monday, August 13, 2012 2:53 PM
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Another secret sauce.

 ** **

 I realize I have the advantage of nobody really knowing how a
 microsingularity (gremlin) would react/evaporate at the quantum scale.  My
 theory is that quantum gravity allows for even smaller energy level black
 holes then expected and we are witnessing those with these systems and ball
 lightning.

 ** **

 A couple of hints:

 ** **

 Temperature inversion.  Brian Ahern mentioned temporary temperature
 inversion which could be explained when a gremlin is expanding it is
 cooling the  powder around it.

 ** **

 Celini also mentioned a conductivity inversion:  A gremlin can carry a
 charge.  It will draw in particles of opposite charge and also evaporate
 charged particles.  This could be the effect seen.

 ** **

 ** **

 ** **

 It is not well established what an evaporating mini black hole would
 actually look like in realistic detail. The Hawking radiation itself would
 consist of energetic particles, antiparticles, and gamma rays. Such
 radiation is invisible to the human eye, so optically the evaporating black
 hole might look like a dud. However, it is also possible that the Hawking
 radiation, rather than emerging directly, might power a hadronic fireball
 that would degrade the radiation into particles and gamma rays of less
 extreme energy, possibly making the evaporating black hole visible to the
 eye. 

 Sounds like ball lightning to me.  It is currently estimated that the
 smallest mass of a gremlin could be is a Planck 
 masshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_mass (about
 22 micrograms)  I think it may be even smaller if quantum gravity is
 stronger than we think

 ** **

 On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 If it is not fission or fusion then it is Gremlins(collapsed matter)
 belching hawking radiation.  They are going to be very hard to witness
 since when you focus photons/light on them they devour it...

 ** **

 Expansion should trigger cooling

 Evaporation should trigger heat, electrical
 charge/conductivity(singularities can carry a charge) and a spectrum of
 radiation

 ** **

 All of the above have been witnessed.

 ** **

 ** **

 ** **

 On Mon

Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?

Kelly,

I believe the process is the same in ALL of these systems that work.

Gas Ionization/Excitement, Confinement, Sparking/Arcing, Reaction.

The reaction gives off additional ions to sustain the reaction without
further outside energy from sparking and arcing if you control it well.

I think that Rossi tube has one or two coils in that tube wall powered by
those wires.  The air is ionized/excited in the center of that tube and
already reacting and radiating heat out the ends and on the inside walls of
the tube, that is why the outside wall is not glowing.  The reaction/heat
is coming from THE AIR.   Once the reaction starts and is controlled by
energy from the coil you can most likely sustain it.

Papp uses Helium ionization/excitement, confinement, intermittent arcing to
trigger the instantaneous reaction which expands the gas to drive the
piston.  Heat is given off but they do not fire the plug continuously so
not as much.

DGT uses ionization, gas confinement in voids/cracks, intermittent arcing
across voids to trigger the reaction.  In the DGT system they are hampered
by having to create a NAE in the nickel lattice.  While that is a good
environment to possibly create new atomic elements (they created 8 NEW
fission and fusion products in their slide) it hampers their heat
production.

Since it is believed lightning in nature can create a similar reaction,
there is no reason it cannot be optimized with these devices.  So far it
looks like we ARE TRANSFORMING MATTER AND ENERGY which is cool.



On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Kelley Trezise ktrez2...@ssvecnet.comwrote:

 I am attempting to listen to John Rohner explain how his engine work sand
 find it to be painfully difficult. If his resume is real he has a certain
 brilliance but it is obvious from this video that that brilliance does not
 spill over into the skill of expressing oneself verbally.


 - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com

  I think this thing is just a battle between the two . . . both firing
 blanks.

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

Correct, no reaction therefore nothing to expand the gas and drive the
piston

On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 does that mean the piston does not move?
 Harry

 On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
  Removing the coil disables the Papp reaction.
 
 
 
  Cheers:Axil
 
 
  On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  sorry if this has already been discussed, but does the papp engine
  heat up if the coil is removed?
 
  Harry
 
  On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 8:37 PM,  mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
   In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:34:44 -0400:
   Hi,
   [snip]
  (*C12* is C12 in an excited state - it has an additional 15.96 MeV
 that
   it*
  * *
  
  *desperately wants to get rid of)*
  
  This is only true when the coulomb barrier is up at full strength. But
   when
  the coulomb barrier is completely down, protons behave like neutrons.
   They
  can exit the nucleus with no energy penalty.
  
  I explain this in the thread “the bumpy road.”
  
   If there were no energy penalty to protons (or neutrons) leaving the
   nucleus,
   then the nucleus would fall apart. This doesn't happen.
  
   BTW the Coulomb barrier is partially a misnomer. It's a Coulomb
 barrier
   for
   positively charged particles trying to enter the nucleus, but
 actually a
   nuclear
   binding force barrier for particles trying to leave the nucleus.
  
   Regards,
  
   Robin van Spaandonk
  
   http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

Was that the popper?

On Sunday, August 12, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 In a video of the Papp engine that was fitted with a transparent cylinder
 sleeve, no coil was used so that the reaction could be seen. The piston
 sometimes moved but not with any force.


 Cheers:Axil

 On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Harry Veeder 
 hveeder...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'hveeder...@gmail.com');
  wrote:

 does that mean the piston does not move?
 Harry

 On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Axil Axil 
 janap...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'janap...@gmail.com');
 wrote:
  Removing the coil disables the Papp reaction.
 
 
 
  Cheers:Axil
 
 
  On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Harry Veeder 
  hveeder...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'hveeder...@gmail.com');
 wrote:
 
  sorry if this has already been discussed, but does the papp engine
  heat up if the coil is removed?
 
  Harry
 
  On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 8:37 PM,  mix...@bigpond.comjavascript:_e({}, 
  'cvml', 'mix...@bigpond.com');
 wrote:
   In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:34:44 -0400:
   Hi,
   [snip]
  (*C12* is C12 in an excited state - it has an additional 15.96 MeV
 that
   it*
  * *
  
  *desperately wants to get rid of)*
  
  This is only true when the coulomb barrier is up at full strength.
 But
   when
  the coulomb barrier is completely down, protons behave like neutrons.
   They
  can exit the nucleus with no energy penalty.
  
  I explain this in the thread “the bumpy road.”
  
   If there were no energy penalty to protons (or neutrons) leaving the
   nucleus,
   then the nucleus would fall apart. This doesn't happen.
  
   BTW the Coulomb barrier is partially a misnomer. It's a Coulomb
 barrier
   for
   positively charged particles trying to enter the nucleus, but
 actually a
   nuclear
   binding force barrier for particles trying to leave the nucleus.
  
   Regards,
  
   Robin van Spaandonk
  
   http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:the Coil

I agree that the effect is the same as ball lightning.  I think dgt and
rossi are all creating this ball upon ignition

On Sunday, August 12, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 I have the answer to why the gas leaves the cylinder and it is not
 teleportation.

 Ball lightning is Rydberg matter, and ball lightning has been known to
 pass through solid walls.

 If highly excited atoms have no coil to confine them to the center of the
 cylinder, they will pass through the cylinder walls in the same way that
 ball lightning can pass through solid walls.

 Simple, the Papp engine is making ball lightning.
 Cheers:  Axil

 On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 *did the reaction produce heat under those circumstances?*

 Unknown.



 The only instance of heat production that I have run across is during the
 “anomaly”.

 A coil wrapped according to the original Papp specs in the patent, is
 heated as the noble gases are teleported out of the cylinder ending in a
 vacuum in the cylinder. After the Pop is initiated, the coil is moved away
 from the portion of the cylinder that supports the gas. Only the copper of
 the coil is heated and not the plastic spool that supports the copper wire.

 This heat is produced even when the coil is grounded.

 See these YouTubes for specifics:

 Part 1

 John Rohner describes anomaly of coil heating in noble gas engine during
 no movement (1 of 
 2)http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=Z0IPWmm7GDc

 Part 2

 John Rohner describes anomaly of coil heating in noble gas engine during
 no movement (2 of 
 2)http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=jlgiwB8V4sc



 Cheers:   Axil






 On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.comwrote:

 did the reaction produce heat under those circumstances?

 Harry

 On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
  In a video of the Papp engine that was fitted with a transparent cylinder
  sleeve, no coil was used so that the reaction could be seen. The piston
  sometimes moved but not with any force.
 
 
 
  Cheers:Axil
 
  On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  does that mean the piston does not move?
  Harry
 
  On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
   Removing the coil disables the Papp reaction.
  
  
  
   Cheers:Axil

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

I'm just sayin...

http://phys.org/news/2011-05-mini-black-holes-atoms-earth.html

I saw ball lightning once in Maine while hunting as a kid.  I was out in a
field with a powerline going through it. I first heard a loud humming noise
and could feel the vibration in the air.  I looked up and saw a large ball
of sparks just hanging in the air sort of pulsing a bit.  It lasted 10-15
seconds and the just sort of...evaporated.

I found this article below

http://www.goodfelloweb.com/nature/plasma/plasma0004.html

I think Rossi is controlling the gremlin in the tube with flux from the coil



On Sunday, August 12, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 I have the answer to why the gas leaves the cylinder and it is not
 teleportation.

 Ball lightning is Rydberg matter, and ball lightning has been known to
 pass through solid walls.

 If highly excited atoms have no coil to confine them to the center of the
 cylinder, they will pass through the cylinder walls in the same way that
 ball lightning can pass through solid walls.

 Simple, the Papp engine is making ball lightning.
 Cheers:  Axil

 On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 *did the reaction produce heat under those circumstances?*

 Unknown.



 The only instance of heat production that I have run across is during the
 “anomaly”.

 A coil wrapped according to the original Papp specs in the patent, is
 heated as the noble gases are teleported out of the cylinder ending in a
 vacuum in the cylinder. After the Pop is initiated, the coil is moved away
 from the portion of the cylinder that supports the gas. Only the copper of
 the coil is heated and not the plastic spool that supports the copper wire.

 This heat is produced even when the coil is grounded.

 See these YouTubes for specifics:

 Part 1

 John Rohner describes anomaly of coil heating in noble gas engine during
 no movement (1 of 
 2)http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=Z0IPWmm7GDc

 Part 2

 John Rohner describes anomaly of coil heating in noble gas engine during
 no movement (2 of 
 2)http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=jlgiwB8V4sc



 Cheers:   Axil






 On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.comwrote:

 did the reaction produce heat under those circumstances?

 Harry

 On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
  In a video of the Papp engine that was fitted with a transparent cylinder
  sleeve, no coil was used so that the reaction could be seen. The piston
  sometimes moved but not with any force.
 
 
 
  Cheers:Axil
 
  On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  does that mean the piston does not move?
  Harry
 
  On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
   Removing the coil disables the Papp reaction.
  
  
  
   Cheers:Axil

Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device.

I now firmly believe Papp/Rohner, Rossi device, DGT, Brillouin, Celini and
others are all generating energy by the exact same Nuclear process and my
prediction of what will come next when the world realizes what this is is
that ALL HEAVEN AND HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE.

The Papp/Rohner device has the process already somewhat
optimized/simplified (1500 HP self sustained for months from a 6-cylinder,
360CC device, which is PEANUTS for what this device will actually do) and
Rossi's latest device appears to be using a very similar method to generate
continuous heat to replace nuclear fuel rods, process heating equipment,
etc. Throw your nanopowder away.

I really want somebody to slap me to wake me up. My wife is wondering why
I cannot sleep at night lately.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 11:11 AM, integral.property.serv...@gmail.com
integral.property.serv...@gmail.com wrote:

Expertise in specialized engineering is confirmed
by review of two URL's:
http://froarty.scienceblog.**com/32178/32178/#comment-59http://froarty.scienceblog.com/32178/32178/#comment-59
and
http://www.plasmerg.com/ .

Internet search reveals an engineering firm Pempek Systems designed
a 100 kw linear generator powered by an internal combustion head fitted to
each side. See:
http://www.freepistonpower.**com/fp3.aspxhttp://www.freepistonpower.com/fp3.aspx.

An obvious application is substitution of Noble Gas Plasma
heads for the internal combustion heads.

Common threads Rossi, Defkalion, Papp, Rohner, Roberts (Analysis), Hot-Cat
and many little people such as Chan, Chung, Mint, Cy Cle . involve
sparks, RFG injection, electromagnets, electric potential fields, H, He, Ni
and programmed progression. LENR is in a cage ready for dissection and
commercial exploitation.

My instincts are on the 100 kw linear generator mentioned above as being
next.

Well, my honored associates at Vortex, what is your take on what will
follow the Rossi 1 mw steel container?

Warm Regards,

Reliable

Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device.

Let me add to that last statement, Generating Energy Matter

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

I really want somebody to slap me to wake me up. My wife is wondering why
I cannot sleep at night lately.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 11:11 AM, integral.property.serv...@gmail.com
integral.property.serv...@gmail.com wrote:

An obvious application is substitution of Noble Gas Plasma
heads for the internal combustion heads.

Common threads Rossi, Defkalion, Papp, Rohner, Roberts (Analysis),
Hot-Cat and many little people such as Chan, Chung, Mint, Cy Cle .
involve sparks, RFG injection, electromagnets, electric potential fields,
H, He, Ni and programmed progression. LENR is in a cage ready for
dissection and commercial exploitation.

My instincts are on the 100 kw linear generator mentioned above as being
next.

Well, my honored associates at Vortex, what is your take on what will
follow the Rossi 1 mw steel container?

Warm Regards,

Reliable

Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device.

No, better wording would be The transformation of matter to energy and
vice versa Basic laws of the universe still apply

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

Let me add to that last statement, Generating Energy Matter

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

I now firmly believe Papp/Rohner, Rossi device, DGT, Brillouin, Celini
and others are all generating energy by the exact same Nuclear process and
my prediction of what will come next when the world realizes what this is
is that ALL HEAVEN AND HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE.

I really want somebody to slap me to wake me up. My wife is wondering
why I cannot sleep at night lately.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 11:11 AM, integral.property.serv...@gmail.com
integral.property.serv...@gmail.com wrote:

Internet search reveals an engineering firm Pempek Systems designed
a 100 kw linear generator powered by an internal combustion head fitted
to
each side. See:
http://www.freepistonpower.**com/fp3.aspxhttp://www.freepistonpower.com/fp3.aspx.

An obvious application is substitution of Noble Gas Plasma
heads for the internal combustion heads.

Common threads Rossi, Defkalion, Papp, Rohner, Roberts (Analysis),
Hot-Cat and many little people such as Chan, Chung, Mint, Cy Cle .
involve sparks, RFG injection, electromagnets, electric potential fields,
H, He, Ni and programmed progression. LENR is in a cage ready for
dissection and commercial exploitation.

My instincts are on the 100 kw linear generator mentioned above as being
next.

Well, my honored associates at Vortex, what is your take on what will
follow the Rossi 1 mw steel container?

Warm Regards,

Reliable

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy -I will not..

JoJo,

I think you add something to this forum for your technical ability.  I have
no comment on the rest.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 11:16 AM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.comwrote:

  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 Ol' Bab


 On 8/11/2012 2:11 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote:


 But I am tired of this.  You may have the last word.  I will not
 be posting this forum anymore.  You may celebrate.  You win.  Go ahead and
 destroy this fine forum with your off-topic posts just to gab with
 friends.

 Jojo

Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device. ALL by same Nuclear process ??

Rohner/Papp is confining ions with a magnetic coil to a very small point in
the same way that a void/crack confines ions.  I will let you take it from
there.  They do not have a bunch of powder around for the gremlin to munch
on and spew out as nuclear goo which dries to ash on his chin...

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 11:56 AM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.comwrote:

  On 8/11/2012 10:41 AM, Chemical Engineer wrote:

 Let me add to that last statement, Generating Energy  Matter

 On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 I now firmly believe Papp/Rohner, Rossi device, DGT, Brillouin, Celini
 and others are all generating energy by the exact same Nuclear process and
 my prediction of what will come next when the world realizes what this is
 is that ALL HEAVEN AND HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE.

  The Papp/Rohner device has the process already somewhat
 optimized/simplified (1500 HP self sustained for months from a 6-cylinder,
 360CC device, which is PEANUTS for what this device will actually do) and
 Rossi's latest device appears to be using a very similar method to generate
 continuous heat to replace nuclear fuel rods, process heating equipment,
 etc.  Throw your nanopowder away.

  I really want somebody to slap me to wake me up.  My wife is wondering
 why I cannot sleep at night lately.


 I was quite able to sleep at nights until I learned that the LENR bunch
 was finding helium at appropriate levels.

 Papp/Rohner seems to be carefully avoiding making any such
 investigations.  No ashes, therefore NOT nuclear.  And so at this point,
 not convincing (although very exciting).

 One miracle is enough.  LENR can do anything that [maybe!] Papp can, just
 a tad more complex and expensive -but still leaving hydrocarbons behind in
 the dust.  Plenty of reason for more sleepless nights.

 Ol' Bab, who was an engineer...

Re: [Vo]:Thoughts about PAPP Process

David,

I agree, the He ions end up at the intersecting point of the 160 kV plugs
firing (4x40kV per plug) due to the coil.  After that POOF (and what ever
that implies)


On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 2:15 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 I was thinking about the PAPP engine and had a couple of interesting ideas
 to pass on.  When I look at the design of the device I see that it has some
 similar features of a cross field system.  The magnetrons that generate
 large amounts of RF at high efficiency are one type of cross field design.
 Notice that the PAPP structure has a large electric field at one end
 generated by the spark gaps and also contains a axial magnetic field due to
 the outer coil.  These fields are at right angles over a portion of their
 spatial common region and hence the comparison.

 I would expect the large electric field and the current that flows because
 of it to ionize the noble gasses to various degrees, depending upon the
 location of the gas during the process.  Helium has an interesting
 characteristic if it has one electron stripped from its neutral atom.  In
 this case the helium very much resembles hydrogen except that it has a
 single unmatched charge remaining.  If hydrinos are a real fact of nature,
 then why would not helium with one electron exhibit behavior that
 compares?  It might even be capable of releasing much more energy as the
 electron becomes ever closer to the nucleus.

 With this line of thinking in mind, perhaps the other noble gasses are
 blended into the mix to catalyze this stored energy release process.  I
 have not followed Mills' technology well enough to know if this is
 possible, but someone else can help with that understanding.  Now, since I
 am suggesting that the helium that is active has one electron removed then
 it would be propelled down the axis of the cylinder toward the piston by
 the positively charged spark gap electrodes at the sealed end.  Electrons
 that are stripped from their atoms would be attracted toward the gap, but
 follow a helical path due to interaction with the magnetic field.

 This total process appears to separate the positive from the negative
 charges and thus produces an electric current that is not balanced within
 the cylinder.  The piston is located within the unbalanced region as well
 and I suspect is conductive.  Ultimately the helium ion must find an
 additional electron to fill its shell and balance its charge.  I wonder if
 the force that is generated in the piston is caused by Lenz's law as a
 result of the rapidly changing current flows.  The gas pressure would not
 be the driving force in this scenario, but would result in some cooling on
 expansion.  I would expect the cooling to reverse as the piston returned to
 its nominal starting position.

 Perhaps the energy released by the helium ion being subject to hydrino
 type effects would tend to speed up the trapped positive ions, thereby
 increasing their speed and effective current.

 Recall that helium comes in a monotonic form at room temperatures, unlike
 hydrogen which pairs.  This allows the ionization energy to be directed
 toward removing electrons only and not to break apart bonds between atoms.

 A nice feature of a machine that operates with noble gasses is that they
 do not form chemical bonds with the impurities that needs to be often
 removed.

 These thoughts might not be new to the field as I have just recently began
 to give the PAPP engine attention so I apologize if I am repeating the
 postings of other members with these unusual ideas.  I am currently
 operating under the assumption that the engine is real, of which I have
 doubts, and my thoughts flow freely with little constraint.

 We could all remain skeptics on the sidelines and get nothing accomplished
 or spend energy with our minds as we attempt to make sense of such a wild
 system.  I do not want to cease to create new designs and concepts just
 because I fail to understand what others claim to observe.  Our field,
 LENR, has been subjected to the same insane prejudice for far too long.   I
 have never seen a meteorite crash to ground but I believe they exist
 because of the information supplied by others.

 If these systems are a physical reality, then we must not neglect them due
 to our skeptic normal tendencies.  Being a skeptic is easy.  One can come
 up with an infinite number of reasons why something might not be possible,
 but only a few where it is.  You can always dismiss the work of others as
 being sloppy and useless.  Not long ago we had these skeptic  types hanging
 around like vultures on telephone lines.  They would deny that LENR devices
 generate excess heat even if one was stuck up their butts cooking them from
 the inside out.

 Dave

Re: [Vo]:NIWeek2012 user contributed video - Big Physics panel discussion on LENR

I am working on my Powerpoint, complete with Gremlins

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Ruby r...@hush.com wrote:

  On 8/11/12 11:20 AM, Terry Blanton wrote:

 Also interesting is the author of the video, John Abrahamsen, a jazz musician:
 bluesmovers.com

 I wonder how he became a fan of LENR?


 I am a musician.  Alien Scientist is a musician.  Andrea Rossi is a
 drummer.  Edmund Storms is a piano player.  I hear Michael McKubre plays
 the guitar. And howz about that Tom and Doug duo

 There is no doubt many more whose corpus callosum has united two
 hemispheres.  You guys are gonna have a BIG Party someday, and we'll have
 the band ready!

 Music is an art that communicates without words, something cold fusion has
 had difficulty with because of it being The Rumpelstiltskin Reaction.

 Perhaps musicians got tired of being second class citizens and decided to
 join up with the New Elite, where Art is not separate from Science.

 Still need those graphical artists to get on-board though.


 --
 Ruby Carat

 r...@coldfusionnow.org
 Skype ruby-carat
 www.coldfusionnow.org

Re: [Vo]:Hydrogen in Papp

Yes, I am going to buy a kit.  I am also going to go to PowerGen in
December and will look for them.  They are backed by McKubre, Bill Clinton,
Harry Reid.  I believe only the first guy...

I believe for electrical power generation or running a drivetrain from this
energy source, which I believe is all the same process, Rohner it is the
way to go.  If you want to transmute metals, go with DGT since their power
output is lower and their gremlin is mostly chewing on metal dust and
spewing out matter and energy at a lower power level.  If you need to boil
water/process heat go with Rossi's  tubular heater until Brilluoin figures
out it is the ion collisions and not the lattice.   Make sure you get an
ironclad contract with Rossi whereby if his does not work he has to run on
a treadmill for you to generate the guaranteed power output...

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Kelley Trezise ktrez2...@ssvecnet.comwrote:

 **
 Are you saying that you will be purchasing one of those units? I hope you
 do and report on it soon. The price seems very low, and given the possible
 return extremely low but still I hesitate to believe in such a thing and
 need your testimony. Hope you are not as short on money as I am. I can't
 afford even a hundred dollar loss.

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com

 I'm buying the kit!

Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device.

OK, I will embrace the uncertainty principle.  I can see one of those 1500
hp engines in my boat...


On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:

 At 09:29 AM 8/11/2012, Chemical Engineer wrote:

 I now firmly believe Papp/Rohner, Rossi device, DGT, Brillouin, Celini
 and others are all generating energy by the exact same Nuclear process and
 my prediction of what will come next when the world realizes what this is
 is that ALL HEAVEN AND HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE.


 Watch out for firmly believe with *any interpretation.* It gunks up your
 mind.

  [...]

 I really want somebody to slap me to wake me up.  My wife is wondering
 why I cannot sleep at night lately.


 That's a sign.

 SLAP!

 WAKE UP!!!

 Firmly believe is a formula for insanity, including sleeplessness.

 You can choose to trust something with your money, trust it with, even,
 your life, but firmly believe is a byproduct ofmechanisms which severely
 limit our adaptability. It's not necessary.

 Doesn't mean you are wrong, but that the stance is likely to create an
 inability to perceive whatever might be contrary to the firm belief. We
 just saw a great example of that on this list. Everything is interpreted,
 once belief like this is established and not recognized for what it is, in
 such a way as to confirm the belief.

 The powerful forces of logic and interpretation, so valuable for our
 creativity, are turned to the service of the belief.

 (This is not an antireligious screed. Faith is not belief, faith is a
 condition of the heart and an attitude of acceptance and trust. Belief has
 seized upon text and fixed ideas, and has substituted them for faith.)

Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device.

No, I was going to put one of those things on the back of my waverunner...

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  OK, I will embrace the uncertainty principle.  I can see one of those
 1500
  hp engines in my boat...

 You have a cigarette boat on Lake Lanier?!?

 T

Re: [Vo]:Gas driven E-cat

No, that reactor is based upon my second theory of aliens farting thru a
wormhole...

My 1st theory is singularity evaporation from rydberg spears hitting each
other head on at tip of spear

On Friday, August 10, 2012, bertoldo arpagoni wrote:

 WOW! That's a  true astonishing achievement! The FART triggered ECAT! I
 bet that after this announcement the BEAN's stock market, aside the nickel
 one, is going to get a big boost on the near future. Let's see what's
 goin'on in Wall Street next Monday opening!
 Just matter of solve the smell issue but for the efficient chemical
 engineer Andrew Reds that's really a piece of cake.

 I'm suggesting this song to promote the new e-cat generation

 Beans, beans the musical fruit
 the more you eat
 the more you toot !



 2012/8/10 Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com javascript:_e({},
 'cvml', 'michele.comit...@gmail.com');

 I suppose he is speaking of methane. No need for electrical power
 anymore.   Seems that Rossi is leaving competition in the dust. Read
 below.


 http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=679cpage=3#comment-299135

 Andrea Rossi
 August 10th, 2012 at 11:54 AM
 ...
 We are very close to a 1 MW plant with high temperature steam and
 electric power generation. Another important achievement , we got
 today: we are able, now, to make the drive with gas instead of
 electric power. This is extremely important, because now we are able
 to make thermal energy with thermal energy, and with the thermal
 energy produced we can make electric power. All this with 1 MW plants.
 Warm Regards,
 Andrea Rossi


 mic

Re: [Vo]:Hydrogen in Papp

I'm buying the kit!

I guess that thing has an alternator keeping the battery charged and firing
the starter coil so in effect it is self-sustaining until the gas leaks by
seals, etc.

300 hp = 224 kW self sustaining and that is the 2 cylinder unit!  HOLY S#%€
is that thing real?  If they are going to be at powergen with OEMs showing
products it will have some credibility. I am going.

1500 hp = 1.1 MWs from a 360cc 6 cylinder engine?  HOLY DOUBLE S%#£!
 Nascar on steriods.

Why screw with a bunch of nickel powder and stuff trying to create a 5 kW
NAE when you can have one of these guys coupled with a drive train or
generator.

On Friday, August 10, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 In very large displacement Papp engines used in ships and megawatt level
 electric production. Hydrogen might be added to the noble gas mix to offset
 the relatively high cost noble gases.


  CheersL: Axil

[Vo]:Hydrogen in Papp

I'm buying the kit!

I guess that thing has an alternator keeping the battery charged and firing
the starter coil so in effect it is self-sustaining until the gas leaks by
seals, etc.

300 hp = 224 kW self sustaining and that is the 2 cylinder unit!  HOLY S#%€
is that thing real?  If they are going to be at powergen with OEMs showing
products it will have some credibility. I am going.

1500 hp = 1.1 MWs from a 360cc 6 cylinder engine?  HOLY DOUBLE S%#£!
 Nascar on steriods.

Why screw with a bunch of nickel powder and stuff trying to create a 5 kW
NAE when you can have one of these guys coupled with a drive train or
generator.

On Friday, August 10, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 In very large displacement Papp engines used in ships and megawatt level
 electric production. Hydrogen might be added to the noble gas mix to offset
 the relatively high cost noble gases.


  CheersL: Axil

Re: [Vo]:Hydrogen in Papp

I have used
http://www.airproducts.com/products/Gases.aspx

Based on what i read they will have a freon-type cannister you will pickup
at the local automotive store and just screw onto the engine to recharge.

On Friday, August 10, 2012, Terry Blanton wrote:

 On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.comjavascript:;
 wrote:
 
  I was wondering. Where will you get the noble gases at? That might be
 expensive, or as a chemistry person, do you have a inside connection.

 http://airgas.com/


 T

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

The device is a high energy gas particle collider creating quantum
singularities (perceived as ball lightning) at the point of the high energy
collisions.  Since Hawking radiation emits the full spectrum of visible
light, that is what they are seeing.

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 8:33 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson 
orionwo...@charter.net wrote:

 From: Axil

 ** **

  These guys don't write things down, they use videos and interviews

  to communicate, this makes research difficult.

  I was under the impression that the coil is always active and is

  not switched off and on. 

  

  J Rohner uses, Scandium at the tip of his anode for some reason.

  He also uses four cathodes ( cut down spark plugs) at 110,000

  volts each. He says they add up to 440,000 V total. I don't

  understand how this addition of voltage is figured.

  

 I hope Mike Carrell is listening in on this topic. He was an electrical
 engineer during his earlier career. With RCA, I believe.

 ** **

 I wonder if Mike might be willing to add his own two-cents as to what is
 going on here. ...Perhaps more to the point, whether the amount of
 electrical energy being expended in the discharges, combined with the
 observed amount of mechanical energy displayed, in truth turns out to
 balance the energy equations in such a manner as to result in no actual O/U
 involved.

 ** **

 I’m neither an electrical engineer nor a mechanical engineer. It's
 fascinating, nevertheless.

 ** **

 Regards,

 Steven Vincent Johnson

 www.OrionWorks.com

 www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

This is not chemistry.  It is high energy particle  quantum physics.  I
believe you can collide just about any gas particles and end up with a
collapsed singularity if you add enough energy at point and time of
collision.  To minimize energy required, use a smaller vessel/voids(down to
quantum sizes) and use a simple gas (such as Hydrogen) with just a proton
and electron.  Once you create the quantum singularity you are then playing
with a nuclear furnace...

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 8:46 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson 
orionwo...@charter.net wrote:

 Addendum:

 ** **

 The fact that Nobel gasses are involved really baffles me. My limited
 understanding of chemistry would suggest to me the fact that there
 shouldn’t be any kind of reactive “chemistry” involved, period… other than
 ionic excitation such as what we see in neon signs.

 ** **

 What the hell is causing what I assume has been “accurately” measured to
 be an unusually large amount of mechanical energy, an amount of mechanical
 energy that has yet to be explained by conventional physics.

 ** **

 If McKubre is willing to be have his portrait taken in the accompanying
 videos, that tells me there must be something going on here really that
 needs to be taken seriously.

 ** **

 Regards,

 Steven Vincent Johnson

 www.OrionWorks.com

 www.zazzle.com/orionworks 

 ** **

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

The gas atoms, instead of fusing or reacting chemically are colliding and
collapsing into a point source due to high energy at the point of collision
and the effect of quantum gravity (which is much larger) at the quantum
level.  This point source, or black hole radiates back to the
surroundings the nuclear goo that universes are made of.  The reason
quantum gravity is much stronger at the quantum level is because there are
thought to be about 11 or so dimensions of space all curled up there.  That
ball lightning is a quantum singularity(s) evaporating and radiating the
full spectrum of Nuclear Goo which is powerful enough to create new
universes.  Fortunately in this case it evaporates very quickly, primarily
releasing radiation that shows up as heat.

I just hope that the reason we have not found other intelligent life is
that they all got their hands on a quantum singularity engine at some point
and stepped on the throttle too hard...



On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 9:30 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Chemical Engineer

  This is not chemistry.  It is high energy particle  quantum physics.  I
  believe you can collide just about any gas particles and end up with a
  collapsed singularity if you add enough energy at point and time of
  collision.  To minimize energy required, use a smaller vessel/voids(down
 to
  quantum sizes) and use a simple gas (such as Hydrogen) with just a proton
  and electron.  Once you create the quantum singularity you are then
 playing
  with a nuclear furnace...

 Hi Chem,

 I need a refresher course in what is meant by the term quantum
 singularity. Can you offer up a reasonable description... or at least
 point me in the right direction?

 PS: I know Francis has also weighed in here with some interesting
 explanations involving the exploitation of precise geometry  topology
 and casimir forces. Being graphically oriented, I find such
 perspectives interesting. I wonder if there is a tie-in with what
 Francis thinks is happening and what you think might be happening -
 involving quantum singularities.  In any case, both explanations seem
 to be happening at the quantum level.

 Regards
 Steven Vincent Johnson
 www.OrionWorks.com
 www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

Well,

Now that I have thought about it some more, if you look out into space and
see millions of galaxies rotating around singularities, within that
singularity is probably the last civilization in that part of the universe
that had a Quantum Singularity device operated by Rossi...

I hope that I am wrong.

On Thursday, August 9, 2012, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote:

 Thanks for the layman's explanation, Chem. I think I actually
 understood much of what you were trying to describe. Having performed
 numerous computer simulations that loosely involve the rules
 attributed to celestial mechanics I have on occasion experimented with
 incorporating additional powers (i.e. dimensions) into the
 algorithms. For example, I've incorporated cube powers and 4th powers
 into some of my computer simulations. The results are interesting.
 Occasionally unexpected... wildly unexpected! I hope to present some
 of what I have uncovered before the end of the year over on my
 OrionWorks website - that is if I can get around to the arduous task
 of completely overhauling it. I'm in the middle of that mess right
 now.

 Regarding your concern as to why we have not yet found other
 intelligent life in the Universe. As Arthur Clark once quipped, and
 I'm paraphrasing here: Quasars are nothing more than industrial
 accidents. ;-)

 Regards
 Steven Vincent Johnson
 www.OrionWorks.com
 www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion GT at NIWeek2012

I would imagine that anything coming close to those high temperature
(thousands of degrees) singularities evaporating would take alot of wear
and tear from both the heat and particles actually getting sucked into the
singularity.  The constant, Hawking radiation spectrum of emissions should
over time create additional transmutations since all of the material within
that chamber is being bombarded with radiation...my opinion, hope you are
not sick of listening to it yet..

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Robert Lynn
robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.comwrote:

 http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/download/file.php?id=23
 As with Rossi still no 3rd party validation but lots of very interesting
 information:

 As many have speculated Defkalion are using a plasma source of quite high
 power, 24kV, 22mA at several kHz (automotive level performance), TZM
 (molybdenum) and tungsten electrodes, 2-8bar Hydrogen with sparking to
 ignite reaction cycles many times per hour (on order of 6 minutes per
 cycle).  On the order of 3-7kJ required to start a cycle.  Electrode life
 is an issue.  State that sparks create rydberg hydrogen atoms that then
 start the reaction.

 Nickel in non- face centred cubic crystals.  No enrichment required but
 needs to be protected from spark kernels, using a nickel powder protected
 within a nickel foam.  Some mix of ZnO, MgO and ZrO too.

 Lots of transmutations, and fusion of H to heavier elements, no gammas
 outside 50-300keV (pretty safe).

 180-850°C in reactor, seems to be about 1kW output at present (92Wh out of
 a cycle, and about 10 cycles per hour).

 COP up to 22.




 On 9 August 2012 20:33, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:

  At 11:40 AM 8/9/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:

 2012-08-08_NIWeek_ Defkalion Technical presentation_ J Hadjichristos.pdf
  http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/download/file.php?id=23 


 Reference 5 is to http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v108/i16/e165007

 Phys. Rev. Lett. 108, 165007 (2012) [5 pages]
 Novel Attractive Force between Ions in Quantum Plasmas P. K. 
 Shuklahttp://publish.aps.org/search/field/author/P.%20K.%20Shukla
 1,2,* and B. 
 Eliassonhttp://publish.aps.org/search/field/author/B.%20Eliasson
 1,†

 (PRL says that Abstracts are fully protected by copyrights).

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion GT at NIWeek2012

I do not see any mention of radiation/ionization products like gammas,
x-ray, etc.  They do mention UV laser bombardment.  Trying to make sure my
theory still holds...  DGT still made out that they did not understand the
complexities of their Rx


 I perused it, but I'm not sure how Defkalion incorporates this into their
 proposed theory.  Does anyone have any insights?

 -- Lou Pagnucco

  So's paper:
 
 
 http://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid%3A53984973-1766-45cc-8bcf-055be714ed73/datastreams/THESIS01
 
 
 
 
  On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
 
   At 01:16 PM 8/9/2012, Robert Lynn wrote:
 
   http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/download/file.php?id=23
 
 
  I couldn't find the So paper (other than abstract) on the interaction
  between Rydberg H and metals, but here's a similar one which references
  him
  :
 
   http://iopscience.iop.org/0953-4075/45/1/015204/article/
  Detection of electrons in the surface ionization of H Rydberg atoms and
  H2
  Rydberg molecules

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion GT at NIWeek2012

Think of a big lightning ball floating inside that reactor creating
ionizing radiation and lots of heat.  I would think you would want to keep
it away from the walls of your reactor and maybe spark plug/instruments
else you will cook them.

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 7:16 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 DGT mentioned that the reacting hydrogen electron was in the vicinity of
 the proton and nickel atom for a short time period during which the fusion
 occurred.  Does this match quantum physics theory?  I thought that there is
 no way to locate an electron at a particular time and that it is everywhere
 within its orbital all of the time.

 Perhaps they are adding support to classical physics in their
 description.  The other possibility is that they really do not understand
 the mechanism.  I bet on the later.

 It is interesting to see that DGT suggests that a magnetic field is
 important for the device operation just as I have suspected.

 Dave

[Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft

My first instance of 1-8 keV should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct in
the second usage)  and A negatively charged singularity would feed
preferentially from POSITIVELY charged particles  instead of negatively.

Sorry for the confusion.

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 All,


 I understand that National Instruments is now calling this a quantum
 reactor.  I have attached a draft of what I believe, without a doubt is the
 primary Nuclear process formerly known as Cold Fusion or LENR.  May they,
 along with Martin, RIP.

 There are three primary forms of Nuclear energy in the world, Fission,
 Fusion  Singularity (Black Hole) Evaporation.  The first two can hopefully
 be retired.

 Excuse the quality of the draft but you will get the idea.  I weighed
 heavily on a recent CERN study by Chan on black hole creation concerns at
 the LHC.  I would like to have somebody sponsor me on publishing my summary
 to Arxiv (after I clean it up some).  I am going to follow up with some
 calculations once I brush up on my particle and quantum physics math...

 It is a beautiful day, don't let it slip away (U2 Bono)

 Stewart D. Simonson
 cheme...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

Jojo,

Thanks.  It is a very elegant and simple explanation (I guess that is why
it is called a singularity).   Einstein in his final years worked in this
area.  Hawking/Penrose should be thanked as well as all of the others now
working on it.  In truth, we have been surrounded by the process daily when
lightning strikes and electrical currents ebb and flow.  We have been given
a 3rd gift of Nuclear Energy, I hope we do better than we have with the
first two.  The nuclear discharge from a singularity is truly the stuff
universes are made of and we now have that power.  To that which much is
given, much is expected.  I hope we as a race live up to that expectation.

Godspeed

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

 **
 Stewart,  send it over to Vortex-L and many here will look it over.  I for
 one are very interested in looking at this new theory.


 Jojo



 - Original Message -
 *From:* Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com
 *To:* c...@googlegroups.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:49 AM
 *Subject:* [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

 Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft

 My first instance of 1-8 keV should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct in
 the second usage)  and A negatively charged singularity would feed
 preferentially from POSITIVELY charged particles  instead of negatively.

 Sorry for the confusion.

 On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

  All,


 I understand that National Instruments is now calling this a quantum
 reactor.  I have attached a draft of what I believe, without a doubt is the
 primary Nuclear process formerly known as Cold Fusion or LENR.  May they,
 along with Martin, RIP.

 There are three primary forms of Nuclear energy in the world, Fission,
 Fusion  Singularity (Black Hole) Evaporation.  The first two can hopefully
 be retired.

 Excuse the quality of the draft but you will get the idea.  I weighed
 heavily on a recent CERN study by Chan on black hole creation concerns at
 the LHC.  I would like to have somebody sponsor me on publishing my summary
 to Arxiv (after I clean it up some).  I am going to follow up with some
 calculations once I brush up on my particle and quantum physics math...

 It is a beautiful day, don't let it slip away (U2 Bono)

 Stewart D. Simonson
 cheme...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

Guys,

The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions
in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion
collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy.  Just enough
and it will purr like a Schrodinger kitten.  Too many singularities or ones
with too large event horizons and she blows...

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote:



 On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system
 than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high
 heat production.


 Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth
 Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into
 Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel
 into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.

 Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has
 ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think
 that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take
 some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little
 bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material
 needs.

 Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is
 somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad,
 but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw.

 I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge
 boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he
 could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion
 apparatus!

 –Jouni

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

Guys,

The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions
in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion
collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy.  Just enough
and it will purr like a Schrodinger kitten.  Too many singularities or ones
with too large event horizons and she blows...

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote:



 On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system
 than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high
 heat production.


 Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth
 Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into
 Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel
 into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.

 Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has
 ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think
 that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take
 some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little
 bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material
 needs.

 Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is
 somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad,
 but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw.

 I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge
 boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he
 could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion
 apparatus!

 –Jouni

Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

Guys,

A couple things:

Daniel wanted me to clarify my theory some more so here it goes:

Things just did not make sense to me about so many confusing fusion
theories about all the similar effects.  I posed some questions to Abd a
few nights ago and he never responded.  I joked about a grand unified
theory of cold fusion because there are so many.  I am en engineer and like
many  want to build something and get it to market but to do that requires
a basic understanding of the reaction.

1)  First off, I believe Ed.  S is right, the primary reaction is not
taking place with the lattice metal as he states correctly but it is
happening in the voids/cracks/impurities as he states.

 2) The hydrogen gas is heated and pressurized which will increase the rate
of collisions of hydrogen and also loads/absorbs hydrogen into the metal
lattice - (basic chemistry)

3) The electrical stimulation of the hydrogen is carried out by electrical
potential differences across the voids/cracks/impurities in the lattice
(sparks jump across the gaps  voids and a potential difference builds up
across dissimilar metals) .  This can also be done with a spark plug as DGT
uses which creates an electrostatic charge on the microparticle suspension
(same effect)

4)The electrical arcing splits the hydrogen to create atomic hydrogen and
it also concentrates energy on the atomic hydrogen as it collides (basic
electrochemistry mixed with particle physics)

5) If the concentrated energy at collision exceeds ~ 1-8 TeV, according to
theory (If you believe in more space dimensions at quantum scales and how
strong quantum gravity acting on the bulk/brane is) at the collision
point/instant of the Atomic Hydrogen it causes the hydrogen molecules to
collapse into each other creating a singularity (particle physics and
quantum physics - I weighed heavily on the CERN paper)

6) The voids in the lattice actually increase the effect of quantum scale
gravity due to the hoop effect (gravitons) I mentioned in my paper (The
atomic hydrogen is squeezed into a void on all sides which magnifies the
quantum effect of gravity, effectively aiding in crushing the atomic
hydrogen into a singularity)

7)  The collapsed micro/quantum black holes can consume more hydrogen based
upon their lifetime but evaporate very quickly releasing heat and low
levels of radiation products.  Some of this quantum goo bombards the
lattice and may result in some additional Nuclear by-products

8)  Depending the duration of singularity creation/evaporation this effect
will create an effect such as heat after death

I believe we humans now have a nice baby black hole generator  which
generates heat and some low level radiation . I am a big Steven Hawking fan
so I recognize this effect

I have read every post, blog, paper that I could over the past year and I
believe my theory has a basis and is what is needed to focus the
development effort.  Of course I may be wrong, but I don't make my living
coming up with theories.  If it is some type of fusion and not Hawking
Radiation than I will still have alot of engineering work to do over the
next 20 years and everyone will laugh at my crazy theory.

If I am right and as I think about it, given the fact that universes are
created from singularities, I believe we better be careful what we are
playing with else we might become one of those black holes we see up in the
sky...






On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 Guys,

 I did it again, I have a couple revisions of this, in one instance it
 should say 1-8 TeV instead of 1-8 keV.  I have attached the latest.



 On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 I thought I posted it to both Vortex  CMNS at the same time.  I believe
 I have identified the wicked gremlin (attached)

 Sorry!



 On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:25 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote:

 Hell yes send it over here!  The Collective is all about discussing the
 fringes… we don’t have to worry about ‘academic’ or ‘professional’
 reputations, so we’re open to most all things… and hopefully backed up with
 some data.

 ** **

 -Mark Iverson

 ** **

 *From:* Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com]
 *Sent:* Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:32 PM
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

 ** **

 Stewart,  send it over to Vortex-L and many here will look it over.  I
 for one are very interested in looking at this new theory.

  

  

 Jojo

  

  

 - Original Message - 

 *From:* Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com 

 *To:* c...@googlegroups.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com 

 *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:49 AM

 *Subject:* [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

 ** **

 Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft 

 ** **

 My first instance of 1-8 keV should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct
 in the second usage)  and A negatively

Re: [Vo]:Gibbs article is annoying

Your theory sounds like out of star trek while mine is more battlestar
galactica

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 Part 1

 John Rohner describes anomaly of coil heating in noble gas engine during
 no movement (1 of 
 2)http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=Z0IPWmm7GDc

 Part 2

 John Rohner describes anomaly of coil heating in noble gas engine during
 no movement (2 of 
 2)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlgiwB8V4scfeature=player_detailpage

 My theory explains this anomaly through the teleportation of entangled
 particles and their decoherence when they come into contact with the copper
 lattice of the copper coil. The decoherence of the delocalized particles
 causes extra dimensional heat transport transportation from inside the
 reaction chamber.

 This also happens in the Rossi reactor to thermalize gamma radiation.
 Test your theory by explaining this anomaly. By the way, you can see this
 anomaly first hand and experiment with it by buying the $350 kit.

 That is a small price to pay for a Nobel prize.

 Cheers:   Axil


 On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 12:15 AM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 Abd,

 First off,  thank you for sharing your thoughts, you have a gift with
 words.

 We all filter the world thru our own beliefs and exerience.

 I have worked as a consulting engineer in industry for the past 21 years
 and 5 years prior installing industrial control systems.  The bulk of my
 projects have been energy related from boilers to turbines to a large
 concentrated solar thermal project.  I am currently working on a Natural
 Gas mid-stream storage  supply system.  I have to deal with alot of real
 world problems to make systems in the field perform.  Not all do.
  Unfortunately I do not yet have Jed's team of robots to make my projects
 all work.

 When I look at LENR today (this name carries a much nicer connotation/ring
 to me than CF) I see a wide range of claimed reactants, products and heat
 gains.  I also see a wide range of radiation emissions  claimed from
 nothing to photons, gammas, x-rays, UV and even gravity waves (nanospire)
  I see a couple systems that catch my eye with claims in the kW range, both
 of these are gas/powder in a relatively low pressure high temp reactor
 which might be real and would be game changers if stable and brought to
 market.  I see NASA already advertising flying LENR airframes into space
 but have not claimed one watt of gain from any research yet.

 I see NASA promoting WL theory and I see you tearing down the WL theory
 and appear soundly in the fusion camp.  I see Krivit discrediting cold
 fusion.  I see Brian Aherm promoting nanomagnetism.  WL promotes beta
 decay and ULMNs to cover all the pathways.  Mills and hydrinos. Brilluoin
 and q-pulse lattice rattling.

 Yes I have more questions maybe you can answer? (loaded question).


 I am at the point the only thing that explains what everyone is seeing is
 quantum singularities hiding in the voids of that lattice devouring atomic
 hydrogen and belching out photons, quarks, gluons, etc. mostly showing up
 as HEAT.  The smallest singularity is theorized to be 22 micrograms based
 on a Planck length.  Maybe a singularity masquerading as an electron that
 is either evaporating or becoming a WIMP?  Maybe the singularity carries a
 charge and has an affinity for all the oppositely charged ions sent its
 way-either SPPs or hydride ions? Maybe the stress and strain and lattice
 cracking creates more singularities to bring to the dinner table,
 amplifying the effect? Singularities are the perfect black-body heat
 engine.  Maybe gravity at the quantum level is strong enough to create
 these quantum singularities by adding just a few hundred degrees of heat
 and extra strain within the lattice?  No Coulomb barrier to worry about
 penetrating anymore, just have to aim your ions very accurately at an
 extremely small target/horizon and there they go.

 Singularities are the perfect e=mc2 heat engine.

 LHC hot fusion guys recently addresed quantum singularities they might
 create and said they would just evaporate quickly.  No explosions, just
 maybe give off some HEAT and then POOF!  Gone.  Once they are gone NO MORE
 HEAT effect.  Maybe that explains the wicked behavior of CF.  Since the
 event horizon erases all history of original reactants it is also
 hard/impossible to nail down pathways-anything goes.  Only way I can
 explain their hidden mass is that it must be hiding in some of those 11 or
 so dimensions available at the quantum level according to string theory.
  Singularities are great at increasing entropy. Also, while singularities
 are evaporating they get HOTTER, which explains heat after death  which
 would occur while these singularities consume remaining ions and evaporate?
  It also explains eruptions in the metallic structure caused by extreme
 point sources of high temperature?  What I believe we have here my friend
 is a magnificent quantum

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

It's not fusion, you are witnessing a quantum black hole singularity
evaporating and emitting low energy photoms, quarks, etc.  Stimulated by
electric arcs, lightning, emf, etc.  Quantum gravity holds this together
while it evaporates.

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012, Roarty, Francis X wrote:

  Eric,

 I’m fine with your explanation up to the final step of
 “fusion”… that’s not the only solution and lack of ash or dead grad
 students is a pretty good indication the reaction isn’t a normal nuclear
 reaction and that the little nuclear residue that has been found to date is
 only a by product of nonnuclear primary reaction …since this reaction
  exceeds values for chemical reactions I have to suggest Zero point as the
 source. My posit is that COE isn’t violated but rather the fluctuations
 that normally cancel into an isotropic field at the macro scale can be
 segregated by organization at the nano scale and provide a raw environment
 where the dynamic changes in these values can be exploited given the proper
 gases, temperatures and heat extraction to set up an endless cycle around
 the Curie point.

 Fran

 ** **

 *From:* Eric Walker [mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com javascript:_e({},
 'cvml', 'eric.wal...@gmail.com');]
 *Sent:* Tuesday, August 07, 2012 1:31 AM
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'vortex-l@eskimo.com');
 *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

 ** **

 Le Aug 6, 2012 à 7:00 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 
 'cvml', 'janap...@gmail.com');
 a écrit :

  The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the
 papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the
 transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the
 formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding
 that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of fusion.
 

  ** **

 Axil, your sense of humor is very dry.  Many people do not realize you are
 speaking tongue-in-cheek.

 ** **

 Eric

 ** **

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

That too!

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012, Terry Blanton wrote:

 On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Chemical Engineer 
 cheme...@gmail.comjavascript:;
 wrote:
  It's not fusion, you are witnessing a quantum black hole singularity
  evaporating and emitting low energy photoms, quarks, etc.  Stimulated by
  electric arcs, lightning, emf, etc.  Quantum gravity holds this together
  while it evaporates.

 Swamp gas.

 T

Re: [Vo]:Curiosity

Since the saucer drops like a rock unlike in the movies where the  saucers
use quantum singularity drives, the aliens will assume we are stupid and
harmless with no way to get back home...

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012, Terry Blanton wrote:

 On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 10:44 AM, David Roberson 
 dlrober...@aol.comjavascript:;
 wrote:
  This reminds me of the War of the Worlds where we are the attacking
 party.

 The real irony is that the descent stage of Curiosity looks just like
 the classic flying saucer.  But its origin is Earth and destination,
 Mars.

 T

Re: [Vo]:Gibbs article is annoying

Jed,

I happen to be at the Kitty Hawk, NC beach today so i am channeling your
thoughts.  The only planes flying overhead today are pulling banners
selling Geico insurance.

You are obviously one of the better resources for all scientific documents
and history associated with anomalous heat.  I suggest instead of
alienating Mark, which you have obviously already done, you engage in some
meaningful discussion with him.  To me he at least seemed open to
discussions and his last article was better than his first couple.

Also, there are not thousands of reporters writing about cold fusion.
 Mostly a few bloggers.  Very few even covered Martin's passing, which is
sad.  Hopefully in the near future there will be lots to write about, maybe
not.

I have been following for a year and half but it is still very confusing to
me what the repeatable results are.  To me the anomalous heat could include
anything from nanomagnetism, LENR, CANR, ZPE, vacuum energy, Hawking
Radiation (my theory), hydrinos, fusion, beta decays to aliens farting
through a wormhole.

I do not expect you to listen to me but I know you will read it as I am
your conservative concience.

On Monday, August 6, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

 Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'mgi...@gibbs.com'); wrote:

 I rest my case.


 That is a snide, content-free response. I suggest you un-rest your case. I
 suggest you do your homework. Learn about cold fusion before writing about
 it. You article reminds me of the sort of thing some reporters wrote about
 the Wright brothers in 1904. The described the airplane as a sort of
 balloon with a kite attached to it. Your reports are not merely inaccurate;
 they are a fantasy. They bear no resemblance to what the researchers claim
 in the peer-reviewed literature.

 You do your readers a disservice with this kind of sloppy reporting. You
 should be ashamed of yourself. If you are going to participate here, I
 think you should stop writing snide retorts and instead address the
 technical issues. This is a science forum, not a  place to accuse people of
 believing in conspiracy theories.

 For the record, I do not believe in conspiracy theories and I do not know
 any researchers who do.

 Please note the title of this thread is . . . annoying. I am annoyed.
 Not particularly angry. With all the rain we have been getting in Atlanta
 lately, we have a lot of mosquitoes. I swat them when I can. They annoy me.
 They do not anger me. There are millions of them; way too many to get angry
 at each individual. There are thousands of ignorant, lazy, blood-sucking,
 two-bit reporters writing nonsense about cold fusion. Way too many to swat,
 or get angry at.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Gibbs article is annoying

Abd,

Great informative post with ego left out unlike others.

On Monday, August 6, 2012, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:

 At 09:31 PM 8/5/2012, Mark Gibbs wrote:

 Jed and Craig,

 It's interesting that you both want the mainstream media to pay attention
 to cold fusion yet you complain when we don't write *exactly* as you think
 we should write.

 You complain endlessly about sloppy journalism and how the theories of
 cold fusion aren't clearly laid out (as you think they should be) for the
 average reader who you obviously look down upon (Craig tellingly dismisses
 them as establishment goons ... an ad hominem attack if ever there was
 one) yet you're perpetually angry at the lack of attention and funding for
 cold fusion!

 Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot.

 [mg]


 Well, Mark, perhaps you should factor for Jed having faced twenty years of
 sloppy journalism. Your report wasn't bad, but you, yourself, might profit
 from taking a sympathetic look at what he pointed out.

 Yes, establishment goons is an ad hominem attack, and silly.
 Perpetually angry, from you, likewise, is a projection. Jed is mostly
 resigned, and not so much about lack of attention -- that's people's right,
 after all -- but about ... sloppy journalism. Your article is not as sloppy
 as many, so something must have pushed him over the edge.

 I'll point out some problems with your post, below. But first, let me
 appreciate the positive. You are paying attention to the field. Great. You
 have effectively acknowledged the reality of the effect. That's great as
 well, but in the context of reams of truly sloppy journalism, that's easily
 overlooked, it will slide right past most people.

 It's an old confusion, often mixed up in critique of cold fusion:

 1. Cold fusion doesn't exist.
 2. It is too unreliable to be practical.

 Those are contradictory. Scientifically, for anyone willing to look at the
 evidence, and not firmly nailed to a position by prior commitment, cold
 fusion exists. That is, the heat effect is real, and it is nuclear, this
 was established through helium correlation, long ago discovered, and
 confirmed amply.

 There was a remarkable event in 2010 that has gone almost entirely
 unnoticed. There was a featured review of the field in a major mainstream
 peer-reviewed multidisciplinary journal, Naturwissenschaften, where cold
 fusion came in out of the cold, came out of the closet, being called cold
 fusion, rather than the less definitive low energy nuclear reactions.
 That's Status of cold fusion (2010), Edmund Storms. There is a preprint
 on lenr-canr.org, but the abstract alone is remarkable.

 Cold fusion had already come a long way by the time of the 2004 U.S.
 Department of Energy review, as can be seen by reading it and comparing it
 with the 1989 review. It was almost a majority position (it was evenly
 split, 9/18) that the heat effect was conclusively established, a vast
 difference from 1989, where probably only one or two out of 15 reviewers
 thought that it might be real.

 There is no accepted theory of how cold fusion works. But fusion is a
 term that includes any reaction that takes lower-Z elements and converts
 them to higher-Z. I.e., deuterium to helium. That conversion, regardless of
 mechanism, releases a characteristic amount of energy, a signature. That
 signature has been observed by many, and there is no contradictory
 experimental record. The early negative replications *confirm* the
 correlation, because they found no heat and no helium. There is now a
 simple harmonizing interpretation of all the experimental record with
 palladium deuteride: there is an unknown nuclear reaction that converts
 deuterium to helium, with little or no observed radiation, taking place on
 the surface, probably in cracks of a certain size.

 It's an error to think that a single reliable experiment is necessary to
 establish something as a scientific fact. In lots of cases, statistical
 analysis is necessary, because single experiments can turn out many
 different ways, sometimes. Plasma physicists are accustomed to running what
 amount to vast numbers of trials at once, where statistical variations even
 out. Cold fusion, however, so far, as manifest in the Fleischmann-Pons Heat
 Effect, requires a very specific structure in the palladium, that is not
 present in pure palladium, but that *sometimes* appears there with repeated
 loading of deuterium into the lattice. And this structure is fragile, it
 does not remain indefinitely, it's probable that the reaction itself
 destroys the reaction sites.

 The reproducible experiment, then, involves running a series of cells
 according to the state of the art so that anomalous heat, measured with a
 reliable method, shows up some percentage of the time, and collecting and
 measuring (generally blind) helium in the outgas. The result of the
 experiment is a correlation. Is anomalous heat correlated with helium
 production? At what value?

 Nobody who has done

Re: [Vo]:Gibbs article is annoying

Abd,

First off,  thank you for sharing your thoughts, you have a gift with words.

We all filter the world thru our own beliefs and exerience.

I have worked as a consulting engineer in industry for the past 21 years
and 5 years prior installing industrial control systems.  The bulk of my
projects have been energy related from boilers to turbines to a large
concentrated solar thermal project.  I am currently working on a Natural
Gas mid-stream storage  supply system.  I have to deal with alot of real
world problems to make systems in the field perform.  Not all do.
 Unfortunately I do not yet have Jed's team of robots to make my projects
all work.

When I look at LENR today (this name carries a much nicer connotation/ring
to me than CF) I see a wide range of claimed reactants, products and heat
gains.  I also see a wide range of radiation emissions  claimed from
nothing to photons, gammas, x-rays, UV and even gravity waves (nanospire)
 I see a couple systems that catch my eye with claims in the kW range, both
of these are gas/powder in a relatively low pressure high temp reactor
which might be real and would be game changers if stable and brought to
market.  I see NASA already advertising flying LENR airframes into space
but have not claimed one watt of gain from any research yet.

I see NASA promoting WL theory and I see you tearing down the WL theory
and appear soundly in the fusion camp.  I see Krivit discrediting cold
fusion.  I see Brian Aherm promoting nanomagnetism.  WL promotes beta
decay and ULMNs to cover all the pathways.  Mills and hydrinos. Brilluoin
and q-pulse lattice rattling.

Yes I have more questions maybe you can answer? (loaded question).


I am at the point the only thing that explains what everyone is seeing is
quantum singularities hiding in the voids of that lattice devouring atomic
hydrogen and belching out photons, quarks, gluons, etc. mostly showing up
as HEAT.  The smallest singularity is theorized to be 22 micrograms based
on a Planck length.  Maybe a singularity masquerading as an electron that
is either evaporating or becoming a WIMP?  Maybe the singularity carries a
charge and has an affinity for all the oppositely charged ions sent its
way-either SPPs or hydride ions? Maybe the stress and strain and lattice
cracking creates more singularities to bring to the dinner table,
amplifying the effect? Singularities are the perfect black-body heat
engine.  Maybe gravity at the quantum level is strong enough to create
these quantum singularities by adding just a few hundred degrees of heat
and extra strain within the lattice?  No Coulomb barrier to worry about
penetrating anymore, just have to aim your ions very accurately at an
extremely small target/horizon and there they go.

Singularities are the perfect e=mc2 heat engine.

LHC hot fusion guys recently addresed quantum singularities they might
create and said they would just evaporate quickly.  No explosions, just
maybe give off some HEAT and then POOF!  Gone.  Once they are gone NO MORE
HEAT effect.  Maybe that explains the wicked behavior of CF.  Since the
event horizon erases all history of original reactants it is also
hard/impossible to nail down pathways-anything goes.  Only way I can
explain their hidden mass is that it must be hiding in some of those 11 or
so dimensions available at the quantum level according to string theory.
 Singularities are great at increasing entropy. Also, while singularities
are evaporating they get HOTTER, which explains heat after death  which
would occur while these singularities consume remaining ions and evaporate?
 It also explains eruptions in the metallic structure caused by extreme
point sources of high temperature?  What I believe we have here my friend
is a magnificent quantum singularity heat engine.

This is my grand unification theory of cold fusion.  No wine involved.

I was hoping you could answer all of these questions by morning?...

Godspeed


On Monday, August 6, 2012, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:


 At 10:17 AM 8/6/2012, Chemical Engineer wrote:

 I have been following for a year and half but it is still very confusing
 to me what the repeatable results are.  To me the anomalous heat could
 include anything from nanomagnetism, LENR, CANR, ZPE, vacuum energy,
 Hawking Radiation (my theory), hydrinos, fusion, beta decays to aliens
 farting through a wormhole.


 CE, you haven't paid adequate attention. I'll say this much for you, the
 literature can be confusing. I came into the study of cold fusion in 2009,
 as a result of happening upon an abusive blacklisting (of lenr-canr.org)
 on Wikipedia. It puzzled me. So, cold fusion was fringe science, perhaps
 unreal. But why blacklist the major repository of scientific papers on the
 subject?

 I looked at the article and started to read the sources. I had the
 background to understand why cold fusion was considered impossible. That
 same background, my training in physics from Richard P. Feynman, had led
 me, as well

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

Axil,

I believe that light is from a quantum singularity evaporating while
feeding off your rydberg matter.  A perfect e=mc2 engine.  See my grand
unification theory of cold fusion just posted.

On Monday, August 6, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 The Rossi reactor is already obsolete.


  Joseph Papp: Papp Engine 
 Footagehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=L7wZqDQ7Pjg


  This video shows the Papp engine under a *dynamometer* test with
 narration and introduction by Jimmy Sabori.


  A high efficiency linear generator can be integrated into the design of
 the papp engine to convert the reciprocating motion of the piston into
 maximum electric power. This free-piston engine/generator combination has
 maximum high efficiency and reliability when converting motion to
 electric power because of the absence of the mechanical devices like a
 dedicated generator crankshaft, connecting rod, etc. The linear generator
 concept plays a very important role in this free-piston engine hybrid
 system to realize unparalleled high efficient electric power production
 approach..


  This concept is best for transportation, or electric production at home
 or office when coupled with a generator. It can be instantly started or
 stopped based on demand whereas the Rossi reactor takes one hour to start
 of stop. This leaves the Rossi type reactor to best serve the very limited
 high process heat specialty industrial market.



 Papp Piston 
 Testhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=UNoxQDS3LlU


  The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the
 papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the
 transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the
 formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding
 that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of fusion.



 Cheers:  Axil





 On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.comjavascript:_e({}, 
 'cvml', 'pagnu...@htdconnect.com');
  wrote:

 Axil,

 I am not acquainted with this engine.

 You wrote -

  After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their
 elasticity.

 Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition

 Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)?

 Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades?
 If so, have RF-emissions been characterized?

 Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the
 phenomenon can be observed better?

 I would be interested in answers to any of these questions
 - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect.

 -- Lou Pagnucco

 Axil^2 wrote:
  *Noble Gas Plasma Engine *
 
  In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his
  “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”.
 
  A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and
  xenon)
  fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage
  discharge
  in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston.
 
  This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion
  occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement.
 After
  the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and
  density, and the cycle is repeated.
 
 
  Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour .
 
  Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper
  end modifications.
 
  Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the
  engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The
  inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each
  cylinder every sixty thousand miles.
 
  Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives
  of
  the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the
  demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and
  another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from
  apparent neutron radiation from his engine.
 
  There were indications that such an engine could provide its own
  electrical
  power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition
  an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of
  the
  Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters
  which provide the energy to expand the gases.
 
  The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are
  5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for
  Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert
  Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful
 Work
  from the Fuel.
 
  There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems
  to keep recycling through the new energy community.
 
  Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called “inteligentry, LTD” to
  simply
  and optimized the Papp

Re: [Vo]:The literature is confusing. That's why I recommend . . .

Jed,

Thanks, I have read Ed's guide and found it very easy to understand and
very informative.  He mentions there is only one pathway (other than
fission) to release that level of energy - Fusion, while I believe there is
another which better explains the phenomenon seen across the board - the
evaporation of quantum singularities, nature's perfect heat engine.  The
confusion goes away when you embrace the thought.

In the last years of Einstein's life he studied this.  I know you hate
wilkipedia but here you go:

In physics http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics, there is a *speculative
* notion that if there were a black
holehttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole with
the same mass and charge as an
electronhttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron,
it would share many of the properties of the electron including the magnetic
moment http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_magnetic_dipole_moment
and Compton
wavelength http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compton_wavelength. This idea
is substantiated within a series of papers published by Albert Einstein
between 1927 and 1949. In them, he showed that if elementary particles were
treated as singularities in spacetime, it was unnecessary to postulate
geodesic http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodesic_(general_relativity) motion
as part of general
relativity.[1]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_electron#cite_note-0

On Monday, August 6, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'a...@lomaxdesign.com'); wrote:


 CE, you haven't paid adequate attention. I'll say this much for you, the
 literature can be confusing.


 I agree it is confusing, and this is a problem. That is why on the main
 page and Introduction page I recommend papers such as Storms and McKubre:

 http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEastudentsg.pdf

 http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/McKubreMCHcoldfusionb.pdf

 When people from the mass media contact me, I send them to those two, plus
 Barnhart for background:

 http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BarnhartBtechnology.pdf

 (I do not start off by calling them useless, lazy, ignorant gits.)

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

Quantum singularities are either created in these events or WIMPS awaken
that consume matter and antimatter and can eject antimatter ions as well
as gammas. It is not fusion or lenr, it is the evaporation of the
singularity causing this. WL theory is wrong

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012, wrote:

Well, here are a couple of old stories identifying some very surprising
e=mc^2 phenomena in atmospheric electrical discharges during
thunderstorms. Probably not related unless ionized noble gases are
excellent gamma absorbers, though.

Weather so severe it generates antimatter

http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/01/weather-so-severe-it-generates-antimatter/

NASA's Fermi Catches Thunderstorms Hurling Antimatter into Space
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/fermi-thunderstorms.html

Also, the August edition of Scientific American re-examines this:

Thunderclouds Make Gamma Rays—and Shoot Out Antimatter, Too

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=thunderclouds-make-gamma-rays-shout-out-matter

-- Lou Pagnucco

Chemical Engineer wrote:
Axil,

I believe that light is from a quantum singularity evaporating while
feeding off your rydberg matter. A perfect e=mc2 engine. See my grand
unification theory of cold fusion just posted.

On Monday, August 6, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

The Rossi reactor is already obsolete.

Joseph Papp: Papp Engine
Footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=L7wZqDQ7Pjg

This video shows the Papp engine under a *dynamometer* test with
narration and introduction by Jimmy Sabori.

A high efficiency linear generator can be integrated into the design of
the papp engine to convert the reciprocating motion of the piston into
maximum electric power. This free-piston engine/generator combination
has
maximum high efficiency and reliability when converting motion to
electric power because of the absence of the mechanical devices like a
dedicated generator crankshaft, connecting rod, etc. The linear
generator
concept plays a very important role in this free-piston engine hybrid
system to realize unparalleled high efficient electric power production
approach..

This concept is best for transportation, or electric production at home
or office when coupled with a generator. It can be instantly started or
stopped based on demand whereas the Rossi reactor takes one hour to
start
of stop. This leaves the Rossi type reactor to best serve the very
limited
high process heat specialty industrial market.

Papp Piston
Testhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=UNoxQDS3LlU

The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the
papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the
transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the
formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding
that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of
fusion.

Cheers: Axil

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM,
pagnu...@htdconnect.com javascript:;javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'pagnu...@htdconnect.com javascript:;');
wrote:

Axil,

I am not acquainted with this engine.

You wrote -

After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their
elasticity.

Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition

Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)?

Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades?
If so, have RF-emissions been characterized?

Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the
phenomenon can be observed better?

I would be interested in answers to any of these questions
- especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect.

-- Lou Pagnucco

Axil^2 wrote:
*Noble Gas Plasma Engine *

In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his
“Noble Gas Plasma Engine”.

A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and
xenon)
fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage
discharge
in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston.

This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion
occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement.
After
the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume
and
density, and the cycle is repeated.

Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour .

Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with
upper
end modifications.

Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders,
the
engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower.
The
inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge
each
cylinder every sixty thousand miles.

Papp had

Re: [Vo]:Obituary: Fleischmann, 85

I agree with Mark on this one and credit him with a more balanced summary
of the state of things this go around

On Sunday, August 5, 2012, Terry Blanton wrote:


 http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/08/04/the-state-of-the-cold-fusion-market/

 Many have argued that the discrediting of Fleischmann and Pons was
 driven and used by others in the science world to further their own
 careers and to promote “big science” experiments with “hot fusion.”

 Who ever said that FP were trying to promote hot fusion?

 T

Re: [Vo]:Gibbs article is annoying

Jed,

He did say  ...there are various reactions that output more energy than is
put in... which is good enough for me.

What i think is more curious is that everyone, including you want to call
it cold fusion.  Even Martin F. regretted calling it that according to
what i read.


On Sunday, August 5, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

 The most recent Gibbs article is here:


 http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/08/04/the-state-of-the-cold-fusion-market/

 I find this annoying. He writes:

 So, is cold fusion real? Well, from the thousands of experiments
 performed over the last few decades it seems that there are various
 reactions that output more energy than is put into them but whether these
 effects can be scaled up into devices that output a significant amount of
 energy and operate reliably still isn’t clear.

 This response  does not answer the question! Gibbs asks Is cold fusion
 real and then -- instead of answering that -- he talks about whether
 these efforts can be scaled up. Real and scalable are two different
 things. No one disputes that muon catalyzed fusion is real, but it cannot
 be scaled up. Tokama plasma fusion is real but it cannot be scaled *down*.

 This is sloppy. Ask a question and then answer it. Do not answer another
 question.

 The answer is: Yes, cold fusion is real, because it has been replicated in
 hundreds of major laboratories, and these replications have been published
 in carefully vetted, top-of-the-line peer reviewed journals. That is the
 definition of real in experimental science. There is no other criterion
 for being real. Whether it is scaled up or commercialized has no bearing on
 that question. To answer this, Gibbs should cite the journals.

 If you are asking: can cold fusion be scaled up? the answer is: we
 don't know yet. It seems Rossi has scaled up but there is no independent
 proof yet.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Gibbs article is annoying

Jed,

On one hand you want to be technical and on the other hand you do not.
 Which is It?

Actually I think you call it cold fusion to promote your book else you will
need to change the name...

On Sunday, August 5, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

 Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'cheme...@gmail.com'); wrote:


 He did say  ...there are various reactions that output more energy than
 is put in... which is good enough for me.


 Not good enough!

 1. Many reactions output more energy than is put in, including chemical
 reactions. That is too vague. He should have said there are various
 reactions that produce thousands of times more energy than any chemical
 reaction, and they are accompanied by the production of helium nuclear ash.

 2. He should have put a period after that, and then asked the next
 question about commercialization. There is no punctuation at all. That is
 sloppy writing. You should ask a question, then answer it. Then ask
 another. Do not cram two unrelated thoughts into one sentence. Punctuate!



 What i think is more curious is that everyone, including you want to call
 it cold fusion.


 Because that is what it generally called in 2012. Whether it is actually
 fusion or some other nuclear reaction is not relevant. Many things are
 called by technically inaccurate or obsolete names, such as folders in
 computers. Nothing is folded in a folder.



  Even Martin F. regretted calling it that according to what i read.


 He did not call it that. Other people did. He regretted that it become
 known by that name.

 That is technical nitpicking. It would have been attacked by any name.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Gibbs article is annoying

Jed,

You were nit picking Mark, we all new what he meant.

I will await the next edition of your book, Anomalous Heat and the Future


On Sunday, August 5, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

 Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'cheme...@gmail.com'); wrote


 On one hand you want to be technical and on the other hand you do not.
  Which is It?


 There is no confusion. A discussion as to whether cold fusion produces
 heat and helium is technical.

 A discussion about the name -- cold fusion -- is semantic nitpicking.
 There are countless words in English, Japanese and all other languages
 which are technically inaccurate, obsolete, confusing, obscure or in some
 other way not a good one-for-one logical description.  Language is not a
 good description of reality. Words are arbitrary symbols. The word is not
 itself the thing it represents. The word taken literally may well be
 absurd. Folder meaning for a collection of computer files is a good
 example. It is not even a little like a manila folder. For that matter,
 manila folders have little to do with the Philippines. Word definitions
 wander around and are forever in flux.

 Cold fusion or LENR or the F-P effect all refer to the same thing.
 They refer to the phenomenon characterized by heat without a chemical
 reaction that far exceeds the limits of chemical reaction; helium; sporadic
 tritium, and so on. The experimental results define what the phenomenon is.
 The name is merely a tag or placeholder used to indicate the phenomenon. A
 person who would argue which of these various designations is best, based
 on the word root (the literal meaning), does not understand how language
 works.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Gibbs article is annoying

He did not use the word exothermic you made that up to support your point.

I am going to tune out now and get an update on one of your robots landing
on Mars in T-3:45.

Let's all pray for that dude coming in hot at 13,000 mph

On Sunday, August 5, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

 Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
 'cheme...@gmail.com'); wrote:


 You were nit picking Mark, we all new what he meant.


 No, he himself did not know what he meant. Various reactions that output
 more energy than is put in can describe anything from striking match to
 fusion in the sun. It is vague. Just saying there are exothermic reactions
 tells us nothing.

 Regarding his writing I am not nit picking. That was seriously bad prose.
 He is a professional writer. He should know better than to cram two
 unrelated thoughts into one sentence with no punctuation in a response to
 one question and he also should know better than to write run-on sentences
 with multiple thoughts because that is the sort of they teach in high
 school or at least they used to and they darn well should now.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Gibbs article is annoying