Bob:That video is a higher bandwidth communication channel than language
is undoubtedly true.
Bob,
Aaargh! You're repeating the primary fallacy of seemingly everyone here -
i.e. all images and symbols are just different forms of "data" -
"bandwidth."
(I should respond at length but I can't resist a brief response). No. Each
sign system has its own unique properties. That's why we have so many, and
don't just use one universal form.
Visual images, in particular, uniquely provide *isomorphic maps of objects.*
If you try and reduce those maps to any other form, e.g. some mathematical
or program form, you *lose the object.* It's equivalent to taking a jigsaw
puzzle to pieces - all you have are the pieces, and you've lost the
picture - the whole.
Produce a program for the Mona Lisa. Now show that program to someone else.
Or another computer. By itself, it's meaningless.
Like a recipe - "Take two cups of flour, three spoonfuls of sugar, mix in a
pan, add an egg, fry for two mins. etc... etc." Now, with just those
instructions, tell me what the recipe is for. The recipe, like a program, by
itself is meaningless.
You need the whole picture and the whole map to see and recognize the
object - and to compare that object with other objects. (Similarly you need
the whole cake and not just the recipe).
AI'ers can't distinguish - intellectually/metacognitively - between the
parts and the whole, the jigsaw pieces and the puzzle picture as a whole (or
the recipe and the cake)..
Look at any analysis of left brain/right brain types. It's standard -
rational (AI) types are analytic, take things to pieces, and have
considerable difficulty "looking at the big picture." Very crudely:
Images - wholes. Symbols - words/logical symbols/numbers - parts (or
features/ properties of wholes).
P.S. As a roboticist, you especially should be able to understand that an
agent moving through a world of objects, needs images/maps of those objects
(and not just symbolic formulae) in order to keep minutely and precisely
aligning itself with those objects.
2008/12/11 Mike Tintner <[email protected]>:
There is no problem though seeing the entities and movements in a movie -
Ben, say, raising his hand, or shaking Steve's hand, or laughing or
making
some other facial expression. Sure, we can argue and/or be confused about
the significance and classification of what exactly is going on. Is he
really laughing, and is it spontaneous, or slightly sarcastic etc? But
there
can be little to no confusion about the exact movements Ben is making -
how
his hand is grasping Steve's, say, how his lips have moved. We can agree
pretty scientifically there.
This only comes courtesy of a long evolutionary history, such that the
ability to interpret such things is for us nearly effortless and
effectively built in as firmware. My main point is that the
information doesn't really exist in any intrinsic sense within the
movie, but that you contain a lot of information (of both a learned
and inherited variety) which you're then using to interpret particular
types of optical pattern.
That video is a higher bandwidth communication channel than language
is undoubtedly true. From an engineering point of view we have high
bandwidth inputs (vision, hearing, touch, smell, taste) but very low
bandwidth outputs (movement, speech).
The apparent unambiguousness of video evidence given within a court
room is only really because of the shared embodiment of the
protagonists, endowing them with similar electrochemical machinery
dedicated to the analysis of optical patterns together with a similar
developmental process. However, if the jury were to consist of
different species (or AGI) the lack of ambiguity might break down.
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agi
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