competition sites will need to reticulate power and water

loss of tug fees may be a issue, but what is the profit per comp on average for 
fees on a fully costed model?

I assume electric self launchers are quieter?





> On 18 Sep 2016, at 10:24 AM, Mike Borgelt <mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Even with the new battery tech you'll only get about 1 hour endurance at 
> cruise power (65%)if you replace the Rotax and max (optional 31.7 US gallons) 
> fuel.
> 
> Nice self launcher with good retrieve capability but you lose the "travelling 
> motor glider" bit.
> 
> With electric it is probably not optimum to have the nose mounted folding 
> prop either. A retractable rear mounted electric motor on a streamlined 
> retractable pylon may give you a more efficient larger diameter propeller and 
> a shorter and lighter landing gear. That would 
> 
> translate into more battery capacity of course or a lower flying weight.
> 
> Electric flight will work for self launch gliders because the power is 
> usually required for only a few minutes. Same for jet gliders. Doesn't work 
> for any kind of serious cruise capability. The other place electric will work 
> is in distributed power for VTOL small aircraft.
> 
> The new battery tech makes a 600 Kg two seat VTOL aircraft possible with good 
> cruise speed and range but using an IC engine for cruise and battery/electric 
> for takeoff and landing.
> 
> The battery tech I'm talking about is here: 
> http://www.solidenergysystems.com/ <http://www.solidenergysystems.com/> and 
> here http://www.nature.com/nature/outlook/batteries/pdf/batteries.pdf 
> <http://www.nature.com/nature/outlook/batteries/pdf/batteries.pdf> The 
> "secret sauce" appears to be the safe electrolyte.
> 
> This outfit looks good to me because the batteries can be built on existing 
> Li-ion battery manufacturing equipment so no vast capital investment 
> required. As they say, they don't want to manufacture batteries but will 
> licence their chemistry so I'd expect the batteries to 
> 
> come from existing battery manufacturers and price shouldn't be too high 
> either.  They are talking about commercial electronic applications now and  
> EV applications in 2018. Given the usual rules of hi tech (everything takes 
> longer and costs more) you may be able to 
> 
> buy these batteries around 2020 I think.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 05:54 AM 9/18/2016, you wrote:
>> “What he said” - I’m curious about that too. 
>> 
>> Brand, $$, availability, and (importantly, also) size? 
>> 
>> My long term dream is to throw the Rotax 914F out of my Stemme and replace 
>> it with batteries and an electric motor, and if a combination of both 
>> existed that had roughly the same total mass, the result would be 
>> transformative (in my view). 
>> 
>> “Go ahead, make my day” :)
>> 
>> Cheers,
>>  Simon
>> 
>>> On 17 Sep 2016, at 8:23 PM, Peter Champness <plchampn...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:plchampn...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What new battery technology is that?
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 5:57 PM, Mike Borgelt < 
>>> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com <mailto:mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> There is also a GP15 15 meter version under construction. Same fuselage as 
>>> the 13.5 M version. Nicer looking than the Diana 2.
>>> The wing sure looks similar to that on a Diana 2 but with winglets. The 
>>> 13.5 M version wing weighs 31 Kg each side. Easy to rig by one person.
>>> The 15M looks to be a seriously good competition glider with a very wide 
>>> wing loading range. Electric self launch too. (Fully retractable, not the 
>>> silly FES). 
>>> A welcome change from the trend to making gliders converge on the B-52.
>>> There is some new battery tech on the horizon too which will mean a 
>>> 10Kw-hour battery weighs only 25 Kg. Allegedly will be safer than current 
>>> Li-ion tech too. This should be enough for a launch and subsequent climb of 
>>> at least 8000 feet.
>>> However will the sport cope with all self launching gliders?
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At 04:52 PM 9/17/2016, you wrote:
>>>> The glider Ron is referring to, is the GP14 Velo http://www.gpgliders.com/ 
>>>> <http://www.gpgliders.com/> , which is still under construction as far as 
>>>> I know, and nothing to do with the Diana 2.
>>>> 
>>>> The Diana 2 is type certified, as of last year.
>>>> https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/TCDS_A_451_SZD-56_Diana_issue_02.pdf
>>>>  
>>>> <https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/TCDS_A_451_SZD-56_Diana_issue_02.pdf>
>>>>  
>>>> The 13.5m Diana 2 "Versus" exists and is almost certainly the best 13.5m 
>>>> glider.
>>>> 
>>>> Beres BogumiÅ>>>> ‚, the man behind the Diana 2 passed away earlier in 
>>>> the year.
>>>> What happened after that is a bit murky, but my understanding is the 
>>>> assets were sold to SZD (there's multiple SZD's, it's confusing), who is 
>>>> once again producing the Diana 2, and *allegedly* producing one with a 
>>>> fuselage that has lower angle of attack on the ground, and an 18m stretch.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Tom & Kerrie Claffey 
>>>> <tom.ker...@gmail.com <mailto:tom.ker...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> Nope,
>>>> The Versus (13.5M experimental version of Diana2) was flown by Stefano 
>>>> Giorgio who won the first 13.5M WGC in it. The glider Sebastian was going 
>>>> to fly, but they ran out of time, is a different, all new glider. 
>>>> Since then the 13.5 M class is supposed to go electric self launch.
>>>> I think the 15M Diana 2 is soon out of the WGC due to time from 
>>>> prototype to certification. 
>>>> (There is some limit)
>>>> Having seen a few of them I would not own one, talk to Mak.
>>>> Tom
>>>> ...
>>>> On Saturday, 17 September 2016, Ron Sanders <resand...@gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:resand...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> Hey guys out there,
>>>> Anyone know what is happening with the Diana 2 these days??
>>>> Last i heard was  a 13.5 metre version was gonna be flown by Sebastian 
>>>> Kawa at some GP thing and it didn't make it.
>>>> Ron
>>>> 
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