The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 716 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: Bad chip - the folly Re: Bad chip - the folly Re: Bad chip - the folly Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Need Alpina part info Re: Need Alpina part info Need car-bra part info Re: <E36> microfilter replacement (fwd) Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? RE E36, E39, E46 Micro Filters.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:16:25 -0700 From: "T WALROD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "bmw digest" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Bad chip - the folly Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You prattle to my profit. So engine wear hour meters focus solely on block wear? Valves and seals and bearings and such are incidental to the question of when do we have to bore or hone the block? A thought: why is there a ridge at the un-oiled top of the cylinder? No rubbing, but maximum heat, pressure and presumably corrosion. Protective carbon layer? Tom (hour meter wouldn't have guarded against my ham-handed timing chain tensioner installation) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "T WALROD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "bmw digest" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Bad chip - the folly > Let me prattle on a bit more. > > Warm and lubricated surfaces don't touch and don't wear. Of course, all > cycles are not perfect, so there is some touching and wear, but for > cylinder > walls, the main wear action is from corrosion. > > After the power stroke, the high heat and pressure cause the piston rings > to > scrape the oil off the walls. They are then exposed to the corrosive > combustion gases. On overlap, the lightly loaded piston returns and > places > a coat of oil on the cylinder wall stopping the corrosion. The exposure > time depends only on the operating time, not the number of revolutions. > > Note that cylinders wear more at the top of the stroke where exposure time > is longer. > > Gary Derian > > > > This statement could use some clarification. I won't be obtuse and > > pretend that you are saying that the dusty NOS engine sitting on the > > shelf > > is rapidly wearing out, and understand that boats, airplanes, and heavy > > equipment have hour meters. What is not obvious is why revolutions, > > which > > translate into distance that friction surfaces are dragged (bearings, > > rings/cylinder walls) and number of forces applied (piston direction > > changes), are not the better indicator. Does oiling become so inferior > > at > > idle? Rich friction enhancing mixture? Greater engine load climbing a > > grade at low rpms vs. zooming down the other side? Why is time the > > superior gauge? > > > > Tom (background music: Feeeelings, nothing more than feeeelings....) > > > >>Engine wear is time dependent, not revolutions dependent. Using > >>non-scientific analysis to form scientific conclusions is folly. > > > >>Gary Derian > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:22:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Bad chip - the folly Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Apparently you don't always profit from everyone's "prattling". ;-) Later, Rich --- T WALROD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You prattle to my profit. > > Tom (hour meter wouldn't have guarded against my ham-handed timing chain > tensioner installation) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "T WALROD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "bmw digest" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 8:42 AM > Subject: Re: Bad chip - the folly > > > > Let me prattle on a bit more. > > > > Warm and lubricated surfaces don't touch and don't wear. Of course, all > > cycles are not perfect, so there is some touching and wear, but for > > cylinder > > walls, the main wear action is from corrosion. > > > > After the power stroke, the high heat and pressure cause the piston rings > > to > > scrape the oil off the walls. They are then exposed to the corrosive > > combustion gases. On overlap, the lightly loaded piston returns and > > places > > a coat of oil on the cylinder wall stopping the corrosion. The exposure > > time depends only on the operating time, not the number of revolutions. > > > > Note that cylinders wear more at the top of the stroke where exposure time > > is longer. > > > > Gary Derian > > > > > > > This statement could use some clarification. I won't be obtuse and > > > pretend that you are saying that the dusty NOS engine sitting on the > > > shelf > > > is rapidly wearing out, and understand that boats, airplanes, and heavy > > > equipment have hour meters. What is not obvious is why revolutions, > > > which > > > translate into distance that friction surfaces are dragged (bearings, > > > rings/cylinder walls) and number of forces applied (piston direction > > > changes), are not the better indicator. Does oiling become so inferior > > > at > > > idle? Rich friction enhancing mixture? Greater engine load climbing a > > > grade at low rpms vs. zooming down the other side? Why is time the > > > superior gauge? > > > > > > Tom (background music: Feeeelings, nothing more than feeeelings....) > > > > > >>Engine wear is time dependent, not revolutions dependent. Using > > >>non-scientific analysis to form scientific conclusions is folly. > > > > > >>Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:12:07 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "T WALROD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "bmw digest" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Bad chip - the folly Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The ridge is above the travel of the top ring. No rub, no scrape, no wear. The piston thrust is down on the skirt, not up at the ring lands which have a considerably smaller diameter than the skirt. Bearings only wear when there is no oil, or severe loads push through the oil (detonation) or chunks of dirt get in there. The metal can fatigue, flake and fall apart, also. Seals fail from heat and time. Equipment without an odometer needs some way to gauge maintenance intervals. The hour meter does the trick, and would be better than an odometer for a car. Gary Derian > You prattle to my profit. So engine wear hour meters focus solely on > block wear? Valves and seals and bearings and such are incidental to the > question of when do we have to bore or hone the block? > > A thought: why is there a ridge at the un-oiled top of the cylinder? No > rubbing, but maximum heat, pressure and presumably corrosion. Protective > carbon layer? > > Tom (hour meter wouldn't have guarded against my ham-handed timing chain > tensioner installation) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "T WALROD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "bmw digest" > <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 8:42 AM > Subject: Re: Bad chip - the folly > > >> Let me prattle on a bit more. >> >> Warm and lubricated surfaces don't touch and don't wear. Of course, all >> cycles are not perfect, so there is some touching and wear, but for >> cylinder >> walls, the main wear action is from corrosion. >> >> After the power stroke, the high heat and pressure cause the piston rings >> to >> scrape the oil off the walls. They are then exposed to the corrosive >> combustion gases. On overlap, the lightly loaded piston returns and >> places >> a coat of oil on the cylinder wall stopping the corrosion. The exposure >> time depends only on the operating time, not the number of revolutions. >> >> Note that cylinders wear more at the top of the stroke where exposure >> time >> is longer. >> >> Gary Derian >> >> >> > This statement could use some clarification. I won't be obtuse and >> > pretend that you are saying that the dusty NOS engine sitting on the >> > shelf >> > is rapidly wearing out, and understand that boats, airplanes, and heavy >> > equipment have hour meters. What is not obvious is why revolutions, >> > which >> > translate into distance that friction surfaces are dragged (bearings, >> > rings/cylinder walls) and number of forces applied (piston direction >> > changes), are not the better indicator. Does oiling become so inferior >> > at >> > idle? Rich friction enhancing mixture? Greater engine load climbing a >> > grade at low rpms vs. zooming down the other side? Why is time the >> > superior gauge? >> > >> > Tom (background music: Feeeelings, nothing more than feeeelings....) >> > >> >>Engine wear is time dependent, not revolutions dependent. Using >> >>non-scientific analysis to form scientific conclusions is folly. >> > >> >>Gary Derian >> >> > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:26:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Exactly what I was thinking. Don't these pics appear to indicate crap oil rather than an extended change interval? This is a lot worse than just "dirty" oil, this is product that has totally broken down (this reminds me of the first motor I tore apart in 1978, after same had been run for years with Sears 10W40 at frequent change intervals). My bet is these motors wouldn't have looked much differently with oil changes at 5K or less. This oil can't take the heat. You want an extended change interval, run Amsoil (no affiliation, just a believer). - Kevin Jay '96 328is, red/tan, 95K, 20W50 Amsoil, squeeky clean --- original message --- From: Kazuto Okayasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? At 07:50 PM 6/26/2005, Bob Moore wrote: Here's a recent thread: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94785 There are some really scary pics in the link in post 188 of that thread. Perhaps BMW knows the effects. My 01's M54b25 has a plastic baffle just inside the oil fill hole. It hides everything inside. It's also been said in various places that BMWNA oil may be more prone to this. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:37:16 -0700 From: donna seeley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Need Alpina part info Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This Alpina trim part was in a box of E30 lights and grills I bought (hi, Tammer!). It fits between the taillights on my E30, with the top center hole for the trunk button. Embossed in the center strip are "SACEX 3132 Patent Pend." and "Made in Italy." Double 02 Salvage couldn't find anything on it. - can the parts gurus here shed any more light? Anyone want to buy it? If not, I'll float it on deBay but I want more info than "Rare! NLA!" for the description. It looks very cool with Cinnabar, and if Sal wasn't so crumpled, I'd have installed it (not _quite_ as bad as false ///M advertising). <http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/donna95m3/album?.dir=/a516> Thanks, Donna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:48:44 -0700 From: Mark Gold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Need Alpina part info Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Donna, Very cool item, but where on earth do you put your license plate? If you're thinking of selling it, try posting it on baye30.net. Mark Salvatierra (mark93ic) might be interested. Mark Gold Sacramento Chapter BMWCCA On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:37 AM, donna seeley wrote: > This Alpina trim part was in a box of E30 lights and grills I > bought (hi, > Tammer!). It fits between the taillights on my E30, with the top > center > hole for the trunk button. > Embossed in the center strip are "SACEX 3132 Patent Pend." and > "Made in > Italy." Double 02 Salvage couldn't find anything on it. - can the > parts > gurus here shed any more light? > Anyone want to buy it? If not, I'll float it on deBay but I want > more info > than "Rare! NLA!" for the description. > > It looks very cool with Cinnabar, and if Sal wasn't so crumpled, > I'd have > installed it (not _quite_ as bad as false ///M advertising). > > <http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/donna95m3/album?.dir=/a516> > > Thanks, > > Donna > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/ > [email protected] > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ____ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the > BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:38:57 -0700 From: donna seeley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Need car-bra part info Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Can you tell I'm clearing the garage of mystery parts? I have an E46 bra, and I don't know which E46 it fits. I can't find a BMW part number on it, but there is a small white tag sewn into one seam with "MEO7791" stamped on it, with "/835" handwritten below. Does this sound familiar to anyone? If I had time, I'd go to a dealership and start test-fitting it to their cars. Donna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:02:50 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> microfilter replacement (fwd) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Kevin, 1. For the reinsertion of the duct it's all of 2 minutes. The duct curve fits perfectly within the channel (front facing) of the brace. Then just push into the plenum opening and get the tabs on the duct to lock into the opening. 2. For the filter, I lowered the whole relay center behind the glove box and didn't have to break the new filter. I also vaccumed out the area to be sure to get any debri which was being held back by the filter. 3. I don't think you want to run the system without the filter as I get the impression you could, in short order, gum up the evaporator/heater core and not have any good way to clean it up. -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:54:17 -0400 From: "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This just in... http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=269465 - Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:09:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Although that is just awful, I wouldn't exactly expect a whole lot of good things after 50k miles on the same oil and filter. Damned Accountants and Lawyers... :-) I want to see more postings and evidence of the recommend BMW interval (or less) on the BMW Castrol oil. Later, Rich - uses Royal Purple, Red Line or Mobil 1 oil. --- Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This just in... > > http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=269465 > > - Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:49:44 -0700 (PDT) From: P Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> How many other manufacturers recommend 15k oil intervals? Just one data point, Infiniti recommends 7.5k (at least on the G35). -Paul 96 328i 03 G35 98 Panoz AIV --- Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Although that is just awful, I wouldn't exactly > expect a whole lot of good things after 50k miles > on the same oil and filter. > > Damned Accountants and Lawyers... > > :-) > > I want to see more postings and evidence of the > recommend BMW interval (or less) on the BMW > Castrol oil. > > Later, > > Rich - uses Royal Purple, Red Line or Mobil 1 oil. > > --- Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > This just in... > > > > > http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=269465 > > > > - Rob > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:26:59 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Paul wrote: >How many other manufacturers recommend 15k oil intervals? ==== Well, Porsche for one... vty, --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:34:46 -0700 From: Mark Dadgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Jun 27, 2005, at 2:26 PM, Dennis Liu wrote: >> How many other manufacturers recommend 15k oil >> > intervals? > > ==== > > Well, Porsche for one... But Porsche's tend to include a very large sump relative to engine displacement. Not a panacea, of course, but definitely better than the BMW situation. - Mark ----- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:38:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E46> Extended oil change interval? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, P Kroon wrote: > How many other manufacturers recommend 15k oil > intervals? > > Just one data point, Infiniti recommends 7.5k (at > least on the G35). On the 350Z, they use dino juice rather than synthetic. Perhaps the Infiniti cars also use the same oil? --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:07:42 -0700 From: Harvey Chao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: RE E36, E39, E46 Micro Filters. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> How VERY interesting. My order from BMP comes and they ignore two separate e-mails from me through which I tried to ask about obtaining the desired charcoal filters and pointing out the misleading nomenclature of their web site. No response to either message. Fast forward to yesterday's post to this group CC to BMP. According to my incoming mail, my message to this group went out via digest distribution around 7:53 PM PDT. This morning, dated 08:30 AM PDT, I received the following message: Mr. Chao, I apologize for the inconvenience on your order. There was an error on our website stating that the filters you ordered were carbon, but unfortunately we do not have the carbon filters available for your car. We would be happy to send you a call tag to send those items back and receive a refund. Please let me know if you desire to return the filters. Thank you. Christine BMP design (800) 648-7278 ext. 230 [EMAIL PROTECTED] I shall reply to them asking for a return tag and we shall see how this resolves. Harvey. ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
